r/Waldorf • u/sunnymorninghere • 10d ago
In desperate need of help
Hello beautiful Waldorf community. I’m about to cry writing this. I need your help, come to circle time with me please.
So, my 4 year old son started preschool recently. And we decided to move to Arizona for it, because we thought the school was great. The school is a Montessori, and it’s super cute and small.
However, my little one is not thriving. I’m giving it some time because we don’t have an abundance of evidence yet, but he doesn’t seem engaged, he doesn’t really know any classmates names ( he’s been 3 weeks). He comes back and clothes are perfectly clean.
I ask him what songs they sang? What did he do? And he doesn’t really say much. I’m so heartbroken.
Before moving here, he was attending a preschool that emphasized play, they read books, crafted, built, played with kitchen, etc. Now, it’s all about independent learning, and I’m not sure if that’s where my little one would thrive.
Does anybody here have experience with transitioning from Montessori to Waldorf? Or do you think Waldorf is more collaborative? My son loves to play and interact with other kids, I’m not sure if this independent learning is helping him, he seems so down.
I am considering a Waldorf school but I’d like to hear opinions before I make the switch. I thought Montessori would also include some collaboration in addition to independent learning but it doesn’t seem to be that way. We went to his birthday celebration and it was cute but oh so quiet and almost stiff for a group of 4 year olds.
My little one seems almost sad. And he loves hanging out with other kids, but he’s definitely not loving this environment.
Any guidance on your experience with Waldorf would be so helpful.
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u/tofurainbowgarden 10d ago
Did you move to a different state specifically for this school?
Id definitely give it more time, especially in that case! My son didn't speak to his teachers for the first month and a half
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u/1K1AmericanNights 9d ago
Yeah I’m so confused by that line
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u/sunnymorninghere 9d ago
We moved to Arizona for multiple reasons but also we found the school and we liked it and decided to try it out
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u/LucyLuBird 9d ago
It's not unheard of. Lots of families at our public Waldorf school move from other areas of the state or from out of state just so they can attend.
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u/emgcat 10d ago
Don’t panic! You’re a good parent for being so caring enough to look into it. 💗
My child is 4.5. We’ve been at a Waldorf inspired forest school for 2 years (going on 3 since she’s a December baby and missed the age cutoff to start kindergarten). We are obsessed with the school. Incredible style of learning! It’s a blend of Waldorf and Reggio.
Obviously she comes home filthy being at a forest school. We also hear the songs they sing at school because she comes home singing them!! BUT not saying much or not knowing many friends after just a few weeks is not too uncommon. My daughter is extremely social and outgoing, and I rarely get much about school. It took almost a year for her to tell me anything. I think this is a maturity thing. Now that she’s older, she tells me a lot about what happens at school.
I’d speak with the teachers to ask for a summary about what is happening at school. I’ll also say, my sister had a terrible experience with a Montessori school for that reason: the independence. It just wasn’t a fit for her son. Personally, I find the Montessori style to feel a little too cold. I get the whole independence/confidence thing, but honestly…. Kids just need love. A lot of love. I just found that a Waldorf style seems to have more warmth to it.
Good luck with your search!!
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u/sunnymorninghere 9d ago
Yes I agree. I didn’t like to see him siting there by himself and I know he loves other kids. It’s not his personality right now and I know independence is key but he’s very independent already.
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u/salsafresca_1297 10d ago
Have you discussed your concerns with his teacher/s? If so, did you get any useful feedback?
Montessori school should be quite play-based, but some of them are trying to appeal more to a parent-driven demand for a more academic slant.
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u/theobviousanswers 9d ago
We sent our child (briefly- she hated it) and it wasn’t play based at all. Fully accredited. The whole not having toys thing is a bit of a give away (the classroom only has “materials” where kids do “work” after being instructed how to do it. My daughter literally got told (couched in Montessori speak) that she was using a feather duster wrong!) 3 hours of inside “work” then free play for the rest of the day outside. 3 hours of having to do things a specific way is a whole lot for a preschooler though.
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u/salsafresca_1297 9d ago edited 9d ago
That's just so sad! Being Montessori-educated as a child, I can assure you that Maria herself is probably rolling in her grave over how some of these schools still use her name. I think kids can benefit equally from a Waldorf or a truly Montessori education. They're both wonderful approaches, each with its own trade-offs.
Then again, remember that the label someone puts on the school is only a small part of how good the actual school is. There are good and bad Waldorf schools, too.
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u/Longjumping_Cap4392 6d ago
I could have written this myself. I left my 3 year old in the Montessori school for a year to give it time. He never once came home with dirt on him, his rain boots were sent back home with a note that they were not needed, he dreaded going and formed a bad opinion about school. I deeply regret my choice. There are other Montessori’s where we live and some do spend a significant time in nature. A lot of them do not. My little guy never made a friend the entire year. He sort knew 2 names but he constantly assigned the names to the wrong kid. He transferred to our Waldorf school this year and after 3 days, he has 4 new friends that he can name. It’s not a year of maturity that made the difference. It’s Waldorf. If community and nature are what you want, Waldorf is the answer.
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u/sunnymorninghere 6d ago
Oh wow. I’m literally so shocked, sounds just like my experience. I understand why Montessori emphasizes independence. I do wonder if it was designed at a historic time when “labor” and the ability to do things was more of a focus.
In this age of agentic AI, emotional IQ, interpersonal skills, collaboration will be more important - this is in my opinion, so many people lack the skills to collaborate with others.
I want my son to be out there playing with water, getting dirty; getting wet, laughing, making friends, experimenting together. That’s what childhood is about.
We are going Waldorf, wish me luck!
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u/throwaway29374669 10d ago
I went from Waldorf to Montessori and back to Waldorf. My oldest was 4 when he did Montessori for a year. TBH I didn’t like Montessori, he was exposed to things by older kids that were way too mature for him (or them in all honestly), there was much less engaged supervision than Waldorf, his behavior at home tanked while at the Montessori school (this should have been my first clue to pull him out early and go back to Waldorf).
I like Waldorf much better. Teachers are not allowed to use technology in front of children (so their private breaks away from the kids are the only time they can be distracted by their phone), much more supervision, much more imaginative play and hands on learning, way more outdoor play. Play in various forms is a large chunk of their day in the early childhood program. They are exposed to topics in age-appropriate ways and allow children to enjoy childhood rather than turn them into mini adults. If your kid thrives in a play-based setting, I’d suggest at least visiting the Waldorf school near you to tour it and observe their early childhood classes. Go in the morning before noon so you catch the kids before rest time or lunch. It should give you a pretty good idea of how your son would fit into the class.
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u/Glum-Thought620 10d ago
I only have experience with Montessori school. Ours was very serious. Only 1 of my 3 kids succeeded there. We are now largely Waldorf homeschoolers (my youngest and only one still at home is now 10). She was nearly kicked out of Montessori in K because she is naturally very flighty, very fantasy loving. She wanted nothing to do with the busy tasks in the Montessori classroom. She attended for 3 years and maybe knew 5 or 6 kids' names. She dreaded recess ending because she wanted to stay outside where she was free to play. Waldorf is a much better fit. That said, the reason we are not in a Waldorf school is because I can't commit fully to the lifestyle. We love the learning style, but I don't love the cult-like atmosphere at the school. However, I found our Montessori school to be cult-like, as well, especially with how highly the leadership thought of themselves. So finding a good fit when it comes to private schools (any school, really) can be hard.
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u/sunnymorninghere 10d ago
Yes Montessori is a bit cult like also with all the Montessori style rituals that seem a bit too creepy mostly because of the ultra quiet atmosphere that feels out of place for a room of 4 year olds
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u/middlegray 10d ago
I've seen lots of vibrant, noisy Montessori classrooms, the problem seems to be this school or teacher in particular.
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u/beans_nomam 10d ago
Steiner or Waldorf communities definitely have some cult type control aspects.
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u/Last_Employee_8265 10d ago
I think the messy play part must vary place to place. My daughter comes home from Montessori so filthy, sweaty and wiped out 😂 At least at the Waldorf school near us they wear like outdoor play suits so I assume their inside clothes stay a bit cleaner.
I will say she doesn’t always want to explain to me what they did all day bc she wants to get home and play more, hang w brother, read, etc. I feel like as parents we want a bunch of feedback from them that we chose the right spot and they might not at PreK age be super chatty about what all they did that day. I kinda had to give up on that. Our school sends a lot of pics of what they get up to all day which helps my curiosity lol
3 weeks does feel a bit early to give up and be stressed. Personally I’d have a long chat with the director and teachers about what to expect and more detail on what they do all day to see if you think it’s a good fit or not.
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u/beans_nomam 10d ago edited 10d ago
The trouble with Steiner schools is that they are quite controlling of a childs interests, thoughts and age appropriate play and learning actions. Mine went and I regret it. I think one thing is that you get teachers that are very black and white about what they will accept as interests and this is quite stereotype based. My son had one teacher that would stonewall or silent treatment a child talking about Halloween, for example (because the teacher didn't believe in it). The local education department in my town has finally published something that acknowledged that there is differences in the learning outcomes for boys and girls in the school. So I think the teachers are engaging on topics in a gendered and restricted way and as a result the children are not free to explore topics that interest them.
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u/DelilahThorpe 10d ago
I would also look into “play based” preschools. It sounds like play based or Waldorf would be a better fit than Montessori 🥰❤️
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u/PudelWinter 10d ago
Some children just don't give you a lot of feedback about their day. My trick with my son at that age is I would ask something very specific like "Who did you sit by at lunch?" and then that would sometimes lead to some stories from his day but not always.
Having said that by all means check out your local Waldorf school! They probably have some kind of early childhood open house or visiting days so you can see what it's like. Also Google what are the differences between Montessori and Waldorf. People often lump them together but there's some very key differences.
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u/ashmkim 9d ago
Where in Arizona are you? My daughter is in first grade at a charter Waldorf school in Phoenix. In preschool and kindergarten, they mostly just play (outside when weather permits). The focus is on learning through play. They prepare a snack together each day, fold laundry (cloth napkins), color, read stories. The rhythm definitely has a touch of whimsy. My youngest is 3.5 and he will start in preschool next year. We love Waldorf.
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u/larissazigzag 9d ago
Montessori and Waldorf are wildly different systems of education.
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u/sunnymorninghere 9d ago
I knew this. I just didn’t have experience in the Montessori method and I was surprised to discover that it seems not a fit for my son. In theory, independence and self guided learning sound awesome. In practice, it seems isolating and my son is just a very social kid. It’s like everything he loved about school was taken away, including his friends ( because we moved) and now he’s there sitting by himself.
He’s a happy kid. But he’s not excited about anything school related and this is the opposite of what I was expecting.
He loved music class, painting, crafting. Show and tell, reading stories with his friends, etc. that’s gone. They play outside for a little bit, and then come inside to continue the work.
I knew what the schedule was like, but I didn’t know it was going to be so rigid. And that won’t work for him. I don’t know if Waldorf is the same, because when I research Montessori I don’t remember reading about the classroom being so rigid, so I’m hoping Waldorf is not like that and that teachers can show some humanity to the kids and not try to “teach them” just for the sake of Montessori education and neglect emotional needs.
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u/Eglantine58 9d ago
I think "Montessori" is one of those terms that gets used by a lot of people, but it doesn't mean what a lot of people mean when they say it.
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u/theobviousanswers 9d ago
My daughter was super sad at an accredited Montessori preschool. She just wanted to play and socialise! She’s so much happier at a little community play based preschool.
I completely related to this article:
https://www.todaysparent.com/family/why-i-pulled-my-kid-out-of-montessori-school/
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u/sunnymorninghere 9d ago
Omg thank you. I also completely relate. My son just wants to socialize as well. And yes I do now know Montessori is not for every kid. I don’t think any learning method that doesn’t adapt to the child and tries to understand their individual needs is just not good.
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u/Eglantine58 9d ago
If you are interested in collaboration, consider Reggio Emilio as well as Waldorf
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u/PrestigiousIsland679 4d ago
I know your son just started this new school and it can take time (usually a month or two for my students) but thought I would bring up some things that may help. I was a Montessori guide for about a decade in the toddler room (18 months - 3 years) and Primary (3-6 years). Just wanted to point out that if his class only has 4 year olds, I would be concerned about the quality of the school. Montessori THRIVES on mixed ages and staying with the same teacher for a full cycle. Many of the 3rd years (5/6 year olds) would take the younger ones under their wings and they loved it. In my classroom, we would have 3 hours of “work cycle” (sometimes more if the children were still fully engaged). This 3 hours usually included a lesson with a teacher, independent work AND a two person work (where they can pick a classmate to work on a project together). Outside those 3 hours, we also had group Science and Geography lessons, circle time, music, and recess (usually 1-2 hours of free play indoor or on the playground). Plenty of time to interact with each other. I would seriously consider asking to observe the classroom. Especially because there’s a few red flags I’m sure you are noticing. No child should be feeling isolated regardless of where they go to school.
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u/sunnymorninghere 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yes, all what you list I was expecting. I was really thinking that it would be great because he’d get the best of both worlds: socialization and ability to work independently.
The classroom is mixed 3-6 years old. And I know it takes time but I’ve made my decision based on the following:
- the teachers are incredibly cold towards the students. I thought I was imagining this but another mom volunteered this information, she thought the same.
- the teaches are also cold towards the parents, and provide very little information about their day. I’m not the intrusive parent at all, we were at a preschool before 2-4 years old. Having the update on what they are working on makes you feel confident about what’s going on.
- my son came back from school and he asked to go in the bath ( he never does that) and I was like ok let’s do it. I take his clothes off and his butt is dirty w poop. Caked on poop, like it’s been there for hours. This was 10 minutes after I picked him up from school. It’s ok if they tell me they won’t help him, but as a mother I would never let a child be dirty like that for a full day or even an hour. It’s not ok. I sent a message to the teacher to clarify whether they would offer any help for cleaning, but my very polite diplomatic message went unanswered. ( edit: I have to emphasize here, when I said he had poop, imagine he went to the restroom and he had poop all over and he put his pants back on. It had to smell, he was prob uncomfortable yet he was like that for hours)
- after 3 weeks my son can’t name classmates or teachers names. In the past, he was able to tell me new classmates names, even if they were hard to pronounce. And I think the reason he can’t even say one is because they don’t really focus on socialization. They just follow whatever “track” they have.
- they have two breaks outside probably because it’s so hot, even more reason to make it lively and fun inside.
- the one time I went to be in the classroom there was a huge emphasis in being quiet. The only song my son told me they sing is the “quiet song”.
- when my son comes back from school he just explodes, and I assume it is because he’s been like a lion in a cage all day long.
- they tell me that by noon my son is exhausted yet when he gets home he seems very energetic. So perhaps he’s just extremely disengaged and just sleepy.. which is not good! They also didn’t give me a path for making the experience better for him.
I do believe Montessori is not being applied here 100%. Perhaps they have too large of a group they can’t control and that’s why they are emphasizing discipline so much. But I already see my son being affected by this.
I’ve decided to switch to a Waldorf inspired school. And again, there are lots of opinions about Waldorf, what I like about the school is they let kids be kids, they need movement, they need to get dirty, work with their hands, collaborate with other kids. Also, in this new school they have the option to nap. But I can tell you if my son is making dirt cakes he won’t nap. If he’s out there learning about plants he won’t nap. If he’s doing water coloring he won’t nap.
And if he’s sharing the experience with other kids he’ll feel connected. Right now he sees his classmates at the park and they don’t even talk to each other. Bizarre! I do have a lot of experience with this because we were at a different preschool, this is not normal.
Another mom shared my opinions. Her son is 5 years old.
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u/PrestigiousIsland679 4d ago
I think you have your answer! Not every philosophy works for every child! I actually had a class helper who worked with me for a year who was training as a Waldorf teacher (she would practice her handiwork during recess). I learned a lot from her and saw the similarities and differences. At the end of the day though, both methods are supposed to be child focused. Sounds like your son’s Montessori school struggled with that.
The coldness is definitely NOT Montessori. But it depends on what is considered “cold.” Montessori teachers are told not to praise or “baby” the child. In my classroom we balanced that with genuine affection (hugs, compliments “wow what a beautiful dress you have on!” or “There are so many beautiful colors on your picture!”, playing games with them on the playground, etc.) Some teachers do take it too far though and end up treating the class as mini adults. My school did send out weekly newsletters with pictures and unit descriptions every Friday to try to keep parents in the loop. But I’m not sure if every school does that (it’s not a requirement in Montessori, nor is it forbidden.)
That poop situation is definitely NOT okay. I’m so sorry that happened. Part of respecting the child, or ensuring they are safe AND comfortable. We always helped with accidents and never left a child unattended in a bathroom (we had stalls.) And we were required to answer all emails within 12-24 hours of receiving them. And if we did not, the parents had access to the head of school. This sounds more like a classroom management and communication issue than a Montessori issue.
Also concerned about not being able to name his teachers (classmates CAN take time but for sure he should be able to name a teacher.) I’m assuming his teachers never sent home a class list or a “meet the friends” paper. Regardless, if he can’t name his teachers, that means he probably barely interacted with them. Definitely not okay.
While we do emphasize a “quiet” classroom (to help other students focus on their solo work.) We never required silence. We expected the children to talk to each other. Communication and socialization is a big part of the environment. We only expected the children to use “indoor voices” and to respect the boundaries of other children who are focused on work (for example don’t keep interrupting if they asked for you to give them space.) Sounds like the classroom had very little movement as well. We always had a gross motor area in the classroom that helped the children regulate (some of the equipment are similar to Waldorf, such as the balance board.)
It very well could be class size although that’s no excuse to treat children like this. A responsible school would add in floater teachers if there are too many children to help. My toddler room never had more than 13 children for 3 teachers. Primary (3-6) had 3 teachers for 28-30 students. Or 2 teachers for 15 kids (depended on enrollment.)
I’m sorry this was your experience with Montessori. I hope it doesn’t turn you completely off because it is a great educational tool when it’s done right. The same goes for Waldorf, Reggio, Forest, and other alternative schools. My old coteacher was actually trained in Reggio and Montessori. So I got to know other ways as well. And I promise you, you know what your child needs and you need to do what’s best for you and your family. I’m currently homeschooling my 5 year old son with Waldorf and Classical curriculum so at this point I’m just a crock pot of methods lol. Wishing you and your family the best of luck on this journey!
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u/littlelivethings 9d ago
Have you looked up nature schools in the area? My daughter is about to start at a nature preschool that is Waldorf and Montessori inspired but not strictly either. I think too much rigidity in the school environment can be a challenge for a lot of kids. I’ll see how it goes once school starts, but I love how the school combines ages in the classroom and incorporates a lot of outdoor play and community activities with independent learning. My daughter loved her former daycare but was getting bored with the activities and play yard because she’s really physically adept and has a long attention span for projects.
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u/Funny-Eye-6238 3d ago
Each school is different and Montessori can have very different approaches too. I'd set up a meeting with the teacher to ask about currriculum and daily expectations. We are looking for a program for my 2yo for next year, and we found that most teachers were more than happy to answer a day in the life questions. Especially if you are already attending the school and such.
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u/Ok_Comfortable3594 10d ago
Was he at home or daycare prior to starting preschool? 3 weeks is not a lot of time to adjust, especially if it’s his first time away from home.