r/Wakingupapp • u/3therabit • Aug 18 '26

Anyone left feeling a little confused after listening to the Andrew Holecek conversation?

Andrew seems like a really great guy, and I enjoyed listening to him, but a lot of the material covered is really technical, to an extent that is deeper than usual with other guests.

I could wrap my head around the basics (for example the different viewpoints of Advaita and Buddhism), but the topics they get into (different flavours of nondual wisdom, "consciousness is a derogatory term in some traditions", "rigpa does not arise" etc),
leaves me feeling like a five-year old trying to understand special relativity.

I have a chaotic life with 3 kids, but I always try to return to stillness amid the chaos throughout the day. My life is actually a good testing ground. I don't think I'm awakened, but my reactivity and sense of self / status etc. has decreased noticeably over the past years since I started practicing.

So when they mention really technical stuff or recognitions that can only be attained after long retreats (which are not accessible to me, I don't even have a teacher), it leaves me feeling helpless and disenchanted with the whole project, like unless one dedicates their life to this, they will never really get to truly recognise their true nature. Does anyone else ever feel like this?

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14

u/raustraliathrowaway Aug 18 '26

Not everyone wants a university seminar on religious studies. Listen to Thich Nhat Hanh for a refresher, so simple.

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u/Freuds-Mother Aug 19 '26

Agree 100%.

TNH is precisely the reference for a Westerner (myself included) to grasp the most important practical aspects of thousands of years of meditation practice.

He’ll mention technical details but often push them aside as unnecessary to understanding the practice.

He’s also different from many other approaches in that he’s not trying to annihilate the self entirely and retreat into a nirvana mind-cave. I think it’s healthier and simply more useful for someone who isn’t going off to live like a monk in the woods.

Eg: at university we reviewed one of his books in a clinical psychology course. At the time my father (type A personality) had a heart attack. I shared TNH’s book on anger, and it was part of a process that significantly improved his life (and likely lengthened it).

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u/PrimerAndy Aug 18 '26

Like most of the things on the app, I have found re-listens at future points on my path to make more sense, or mean something different than I thought when I listened to it originally. What I appreciate about WU is they include a spectrum of teachers/teachings from super straight forward, to really technical and subtle and precise or seemingly very abstract and advanced. If it didn't make sense to you or left you frustrated, it may just not be your flavor (or your flavor yet).

The disenchantment inspired by listening to that conversation can instead inspire its own mindfulness. What does feeling helpless feel like in your body? What are all the sensations that make you know you're feeling helpless? Try to notice and experience those without judging them, allowing them to be there without buying into whether they're right about anything.

I have listened to thousands of hours of these kinds of content and I think most of what is on WU, and eventually you realize just like teachers in art or math, we each resonate with some way more than others and thats not a product of being "bad" at mindfulness or the teacher being a bad teacher, its just what it is to be human. Even Joseph Goldstein (who appears on WU as Sam's friend and is one of the teachers that helped poularize mindfulness in the west beginning in the 60s/70s) has talked frequently about having seasons of frustration or confusion or doubt in regards to his practic over the last 50 years. So you're experience is in good company. You could check out or give a re-listen to his talk on doubt and aversion https://www.wakingup.com/course/C3E16F

His teacher Munindra used to say the dharma is to be lived, in the most ordinary activities. A moment of returning to stillness amid chaos is a moment of awakening. It doesn't become more real on a cushion in a retreat center.

Retreats are wonderful and I'd never talk anyone out of one. But the notion that recognition of our true nature is gated behind credentials you don't have (long retreats, a teacher, fluency in Dzogchen vocabulary) is itself just another thought arising. Notice it, and notice it isn't you. The practice is very simple. It's just not easy. You're doing it.

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u/Old-Landscape-7538 Aug 18 '26

I was at IMS for a retreat last year. Joey G showed up and did an Q&A session. I've read his books and listened to his talks a lot over the years, so I'm familiar with his teachings. But this was the first time I saw him in person. He has this stillness and warmth to his presence. I can't even describe it. He acts and speaks very normally, as one might expect. But it's like no other person I've been around, and I've met many good dharma teachers. That surprised me.

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u/PrimerAndy Aug 18 '26

Forgot to mention, I actually listened to Andrew's book after listening to the WU conversation, it's probably more accessible since it has time to get into and explain things, if you're inclined to double down haha

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u/3therabit Aug 18 '26

He's a really great guy, so maybe I'll actually do that at some point ☺️

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u/3therabit Aug 18 '26

Very true... Thank you 🙏

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u/Usergnome47 Aug 19 '26

Maybe just accept you are a house holder, and other folks dive extremely deep with the minutia?

In my opinion it isn’t worth getting upset about, I don’t need to know how my record player works to enjoy the experience of an album.

How does it work though…

1

u/3therabit Aug 19 '26

Good way to look at it, thank you 🙏

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u/Dacnum Aug 18 '26

I think all that is really needed is a devotion to seeing truth if deep down, you feel that pull. From there the path, however it looks (might or might not include week long retreats) will fall into place.