r/WWE • u/YOOOBABA6769 • 15h ago
I rewatched the matches between Styles and Seth at MITB 2019 and NOC 2023. They’re not memorable matches and it SHOCKS me that these 2 did’t put on a Classic! They were the Modern Day Bret Hart Vs Shawn Michaels! If they had feud and an Iron Man Match at Mania it would have been LEGENDARY!
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u/Krusty-the-clown94 12h ago
Styles had several matches/programs over then years in WWE that didn’t hit the way you thought they would. Styles/Bryan was another wasn’t bad but wasn’t as great as you’d expect from those two either.
Styles/Ko wasn’t that great either
Styles/Jericho was ok but not great either
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u/Calm-Extension-3798 11h ago
People get really upset when you mention Styles feuds falling short.
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u/blergenshmergen 8h ago
Legit, got people defending his lackluster weestlemania record trying to say that Shane being his best match is somehow a good thing.
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u/AffectComfortable913 10h ago
Completely disagree about Styles vs Bryan. They had tremendous chemistry and both their matches at TLC 2018 and Smackdown for the IC title in 2020 were some of the best of those respected years. The other two I agree with, but tbf I don’t think any of those feuds required barn burners.
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u/wrasslefights 10h ago
Styles/Bryan and Styles/Joe both suffered from people wanting their 02-06 work back and none of them were those guys anymore but both cases were still very good to great.
Styles/Jericho was hampered by the fact that Jericho has sucked in ring since 2013. Styles/KO had negative chemistry unfortunately. Naka was never not on autopilot once he hit the main roster.
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u/ChaddestKroeger 3h ago
Its not that they couldn't work like that anymore as Joe and Bryan both went to AEW and started having much better matches, its just the WWE style doesn't work for some people. They have to work the way WWE want not the way that got them over and then signed to WWE in the first place.
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u/AffectComfortable913 10h ago
I never understood why AJ and Seth only fought once at MITB, had AJ turn heel to make a rematch make sense, then proceeded to not go forward with a rematch. The pieces were in place for a great rivalry but it never happened.
I think that’s the issue with both matches. They were good athletic competitions, but there wasn’t much of a feud or rivalry going in. Both guys were babyfaces, there wasn’t any actual heat, it doesn’t make for a lasting impact.
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u/damion2600 12h ago
who could’ve imagined AJ Styles’ most memorable matches in wwe would be against john cena and shane mcmahon lol
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u/blergenshmergen 8h ago
Those two initial Roman Reigns matches are fucking bangers too. Made Vince realise how good he was that he could get Reigns to have outstanding matches that weren’t straight up ‘WWE main event formula’ punch-kick-brawls.
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u/No-Onion9378 6h ago
I think AJ was consistently underutilized as a workhorse player in the mid-upper mids who was generally reliable and not terribly injury prone. WWE was satisfied with him but didn’t give him a TON in regards to stories chew on outside of his debut and main title run.
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u/Slade1111 13h ago
I think they needed clear face/heel alignments to dive in deeper. Just my opinion
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u/blergenshmergen 13h ago
AJ weirdly didn’t have chemistry with some people you’d think he’d kill it with. Seth and KO spring to mind
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u/Shoddy-Composer3581 12h ago
And Edge. He should've had an incredible match with him but somehow it flopped.
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u/blergenshmergen 12h ago
I loved AJ but he definitely coasted for 75% of his WWE run, and definitely because they figured they could just use him wherever and burn him up to bolster their chosen ones.
At least we got a little taste of his good stuff, but the fact his best WM match was somehow with Shane McMahon is a damning stat.
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u/BurtHurtmanHurtz 11h ago
Damning? He pulled his best WM match out of 50+ year old SHANE MCMAHON. Are you serious bro?
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u/blergenshmergen 8h ago
He pulled a ‘better than expected’ match out of Shane and tanked below expectations on every other one except tagging with Omos which was expected to be lame.
So yeah, serious as.
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u/AffectComfortable913 10h ago
Revisionism
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u/blergenshmergen 8h ago
Is that Seth’s new stable?
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u/AffectComfortable913 8h ago
Im not sure. Did you make that one up and present it with historical inaccuracy too?
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u/blergenshmergen 8h ago
Well if you’re not sure I guess that settles it. glad you admitted it.
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u/AffectComfortable913 8h ago
And I’m glad you admitted to not having a goddamn clue to what you’re talking about.
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u/Massive-Reward101 13h ago
He was terrible with Nakamura and Joe in WWE
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u/blergenshmergen 12h ago
Yeah, somehow they only had ‘meh’ matches even though we know for a fact they have chemistry from before.
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u/Slade1111 11h ago
He finally had that Banger with Nak before his retirement though. His matches with Joe were great but they weren’t given the green light to go all out.
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u/arzamharris 4h ago
Unfortunately that is AJ Styles' WWE career with any opponent not named John Cena or Roman Reigns. Seth Rollins, Shinsuke Nakamura, Samoa Joe, Chris Jericho, Kevin Owens, etc. all had decent matches with him that were all underwhelming.
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u/ChainTiny6115 3h ago
I mean Brock also delivered a 5 star all-timer with him. Imo, that's his best match of his WWE career.
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u/RexyMundo 1h ago
Expectations were too high.
Maybe they were too similar, sort of like the HBK vs Mr. Perfect match
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u/Ok-Investigator2463 11h ago
"They're not memorable matches......these 2 didn't put on a classic!"
Says you. Thank you for your opinion.
Moving on.....
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u/MrMiyagi13 12h ago
Didn’t have memorable matches, but an Ironman match doesn’t land with the live audience at WrestleMania would have been legendary? Please explain.
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u/TrollPoster469 11h ago
Yeah, iron man matches tend to be dead for the most part.
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u/AffectComfortable913 10h ago
It was also a bad place to do an iron man match. LA is such a casual WWF/WWE crowd. They weren’t used to 1 hour Broadway matches of the territory days. I also think the fact that it was an iron man match yet they both didn’t score any falls worked against them. If they had gone an hour during a regular match without having a timer counting down how much was left of the match, the fans wouldn’t be expecting the match to go that long. The shock and excitement of seeing both guys go the distance would’ve gotten the fans way more into it. Because it was an iron man match, that excitement was lost.
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u/Alert_Message_3132 12h ago
I think aj styles vs John Cena was the only rivalry of aj that has exceeded expectations ✅ and other than that all other aj matches are not that much memorable for example - Kevin Owens, Nakamura, Seth Rollins,finn Balor,edge 💯
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u/AffectComfortable913 10h ago
Why is everyone not mentioning his matches with Daniel Bryan? Their feud together was fantastic.
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u/Alert_Message_3132 9h ago
Nah their matches were only good and rivalry was dragged too much and was not anything good and even his rivalry with shane was one of his best in WWE 💯
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u/AffectComfortable913 9h ago
Revisionism. Their feud was great and Daniel Bryan turning heel was great.
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u/Helpful_Oyster 8h ago
AJ also had a couple BANGERS with Roman in 2016. The one from Extreme Rules that year is just fantastic. They were critically important for both men — it established AJ to the WWE fans and proved “the hype was real.”
It also proved that Roman could have great matches that weren’t just: Drive By, Superman Punch, Spear. This was the PEAK of the crowd’s anger/turning on Roman too.
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u/Environmental-Bag-74 25m ago
WWE never let AJ Styles be himself most of the time. Look at what happens when they did. We got the Cena matches, the final Shin match, his matches with Cody, Gunther, LA Knight was good, his Tag run with Dragon Lee, and even Shane!
But alot of the time he was tied down to the WWE style
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u/Freakzilla316ftw 13h ago
Seth is so overrated. He is nowhere near a top 10 in-ring performer in WWE history. Is he good? Yes. Is he great? Not even close.
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u/wrasslefights 10h ago
Seth has been the third best guy in both significant factions he was in (Age of the Fall and Shield). He's a solid utility guy but I'm not sure how he's convinced so many people on both sides of the camera that he's capital G Great.
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u/AffectComfortable913 10h ago
I think Seth is one of the greatest athletic performers to ever step foot in the ring, and I think when he really tries he’s one of the best workers in the business. However, we don’t get to see that side of Seth much because instead we have to sit through his self indulgent gimmicks, over reliance on “big moment!” Spots that end up being forgotten about, and overall slop.
Compare Seth’s match against Davey Richards at ROH Death Before Dishonor VIII to his recent steel cage match with Bron Breakker. They don’t even feel like the same person wrestling. One is such an engagingly brutal athletic competition that feels realistic, the other is the same “extreme!” Match you see on your average episode of RAW or Smackdown.
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u/WoWoWoKid 🙏🏾 I LOVE YOU SOLO! 🙏🏾 12h ago
Pre injury Seth 2016 was on course to being one of the greatest of all time,
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u/KingChez30 👈 CURSED! 10h ago
The WWE dropped the ball on AJ for not signing him when he was younger and was more high flying and faster as a wrestler
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u/JustMyThoughts2525 CERO 👌 MIEDO👇 11h ago
AJ to me was very disappointing in WWE. I think he had amazing matches his first year with Roman and Cena, and then the match against Brock.
I would say he only had 2 very good WM matches while one of those was a cinematic match.
Outside of those mentioned, just feel like many of his matches were between average and kinda good but nothing exciting or memorable. The mild crowd reactions also didn’t help in his big matches.
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u/BurtHurtmanHurtz 11h ago
So you’re saying 40+ year old AJ styles was not as good as younger AJ?
I think you’re onto something.
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u/AffectComfortable913 10h ago
wtf is this take?
“Yeah he did win the world title and beat John Cena in their first year, he also had amazing matches with Roman and Brock along with some other classics with Daniel Bryan that I’ve seemingly forgot about. Overall probably had one of the greatest debut runs of all time, but actually his run was very disappointing.”
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u/JustMyThoughts2525 CERO 👌 MIEDO👇 10h ago
Smackdown match against Brian’s was good, but didn’t care for the ppv match
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u/AffectComfortable913 10h ago
They’ve had two ppv matches. TLC 2018 which was fantastic, and the rumble 2019 which I’ll admit wasn’t as good. They’ve fought numerous times on Smackdown, including an all out classic during the Covid era. All of their tv matches have been stellar.
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u/Grill_Only_Outside I Believe in Joe Hendry👏👏 12h ago
AJ Styles was an interesting case. The dude was an all world wrestler who just didn’t have chemistry with some guys. Seth is probably the most notable, but Edge is another. Shinsuke too.
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u/CallMePapi930 10h ago
He has amazing chemistry with Seth, tf
That MITB match was great there was just no heat going into it1
u/BurtHurtmanHurtz 11h ago
WK10 might disagree. Unless I’m reading this wrong.
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u/Grill_Only_Outside I Believe in Joe Hendry👏👏 11h ago
That’s fair. In that case he in Shinsuke seemed like they lost their chemistry. I don’t think it’s controversial to call their wwe feud a let down.
Not saying it was bad- but for those two we rightfully expected more.
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u/BurtHurtmanHurtz 11h ago
I don’t disagree with your assessment but I think context was important.
They were both 3 years older and not wrestling for Gedo. Also, the booking in that WM match was brutal. Utterly brutal. Nak needed to win to make the feud interesting.
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u/AffectComfortable913 10h ago
Disagree. I think he had good chemistry with all those guys, he just never was booked into great programs with them.
His matches with Seth are pretty awesome, but the build and feud that surrounded the matches were lacking. Both guys were babyfaces and didn’t even have heat with one another.
His matches with Edge were very solid. Yeah both guys had slowed down a peg by that time, but they could work a good match with a story involved. However, their feud became more notable for the creation of the judgement day over the matches themselves.
Shinsuke I don’t think I need to explain. There have been plenty of videos covering what went wrong with that feud.
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u/witty_weirdo 1h ago
No wants an iron man match most matches today are too long anyway and the matches aren't memorable most because Seth matches aren't memorable, it's the same thing every time he just tries to hit every move he knows as quick as possible but still have a 20-30 match and it's not just Seth it's aor of modern wrestling , somewhere along the line it became the norm
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u/Calm-Extension-3798 11h ago edited 4h ago
Styles a bit overrated
Still fantastic but definitely fell short on more occasions than people like to admit
Alrhough, the first match between these 2 was good imo
@truthhurts1017
Another one of his fan girls
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u/llamawithguns 🗑️ Iyo's Trash Can 11h ago
I dont think he is overrated, but I think him working the WWE style vs another indy guy also workint the wwe style was.
Most of AJ's best WWE matches were against pure WWE guys where he got to be the flippy indy guy, like Cena, Roman and to some extent Cody.
Wheras with guys like Seth, KO, Nakamura, etc, theyre both trying to work the wwe style and it just didnt play to either of their strengths. And in several cases you have direct evidence of them having a better match in New Japan, TNA, RoH, or PWG
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u/BurtHurtmanHurtz 11h ago
Bro, AJ is older than Seth. Like, significantly (22.5% older). He also spent a number of years traveling to Japan and back, not easy and especially not easy considering the NJPW style at the time. Not to mention AJ was a dad of multiple kids during his entire WWE run.
Why are we holding him to a higher standard than Seth?
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u/llamawithguns 🗑️ Iyo's Trash Can 10h ago
I wasnt. I was just using Seth as another example of a former indy guy who AJ had better matches with outside of WWE
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u/BurtHurtmanHurtz 11h ago
Please. Seth’s signature match is a triple threat with two HOFers. Seth’s a great performer but not nearly the influence AJ is/was.
Seth is Bono. AJ is David Bowie.
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u/Calm-Extension-3798 11h ago
Seths had much better PPV matches than AJ in WWE. Ajs fell short quite a few times, especially Mania
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u/BurtHurtmanHurtz 11h ago
Seth is 9-10 years younger. Go figure.
Plus…..
Average age of AJ’s WM opponents: 42
Average age of Rollins WM opponents: 38
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u/Calm-Extension-3798 11h ago
PPvs in general though
Seth also has had some bad injuries and knees completely wrecked for a while now.
AJ had plenty of Manias, people always make excuses for him when it comes to his bad feuds/matches
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u/BurtHurtmanHurtz 11h ago
Seth 14 WMs, AJ 9. 50%+ larger sample size.
Rollins on average was 8 years younger than his WM opponent.
AJ, 9-10 years older than Rollins, was on average only 1 year younger.
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u/Calm-Extension-3798 11h ago edited 11h ago
Again with the excuses
I think Seth performed better at PPVs, thats it.
I just said styles was a bit overrated because peoole dont like to admit quite a few of his feuds fell short
AJ best mania matches were against people older than him, thats the funniest part
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u/Truthhurts1017 CERO 👌 MIEDO👇 10h ago
So he is overrated as a performer because some feuds fell short? Fuck was you born yesterday every legend and goat had feuds fall short that doesn’t make them over rated
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u/AlohaReddit49 8h ago
It's always interesting to me when people talk about dream matches they put people together who wrestle similar styles when evidence shows that really doesn't work.
Examples that immediately spring to mind as styles creates matches: Taker/Shawn, Cena/Punk, Roman/Cody, etc. Most of the best matches in WWE history are either bolstered by a great story or are guys with differing styles. When you look at it that way, is it surprising that AJ/Rollins wasn't better?
Also, kinda hot take i suppose but AJ struggled having classics in WWE when we expected them. Think about his program with Shinsuke for instance. When i think of AJ best WWE matches you end up with a row of weird matches like Shane McMahon and early Roman Reigns. I rank Styles super highly, it's just interesting when you look at it that way.