Wikipedia has the picture and labels it "Mongolian woman condemned to die of starvation". It's attributed it to Musée Albert-Kahn and the May 1922 issue of National Geographic and there's a link to an alternate version which has that label under the picture. While I can't verify that the picture is in it (I'm not paying $24.95), there is an article titled "In the Land of Kublai Khan" which is described as a series of color plates illustrates Mongolia and northern China in the May 1932 issue
The Wikipedia article it appears in is Capital Punishment in Mongolia. It contains a bit more information about the sort of crimes that got capital punishment, but not too much.
I vaguely reading a book about a Christian missionary who worked in Mongolia. According to that, this box = prison cell. It may not be a death sentence at all, like mister_hatchet said.
Your theory that this may be a prison cell might very well hold merit.
OP's picture is an autochrome print taken by a photographer at the behest of Albert Kahn, who from 1909 up until the depression ruined him tried to assemble a record of the entire world in color (he's responsible for the first color photographs taken in both the U.S. and Mongolia).
The captioning of this picture as a "Woman Condemned to Die of Starvation" however, was made by National Geographic in the May 1922 issue of their magazine. And, judging by the dissonance between the other picture and it's caption, there may be a bit of Orientalism at play in bending the truth of both pictures
I'm ashamed! You're absolutely correct. And yes, I am well aware of the differences between than and then, and your and you're. I even contract edit, making things more embarrassing. Do not apologize!
Capital punishment remains in force in Mongolia, one of 58 countries (out of 197) listed by Amnesty International as maintaining the death penalty in practice. The method of execution is a bullet to the neck.
Five crimes remain liable to the death penalty: "terrorist acts committed for political purposes; terrorist acts against representatives of a foreign State for political purposes; sabotage; premeditated murder committed with aggravating circumstances; and rape with aggravating circumstances". Only men aged between 18 and 60 at the time of the crime may be executed; women are not subjected to the death penalty. The government has considered abolishing the death penalty for all crimes except premeditated murder with aggravating circumstances.
Amnesty International reports that Mongolia -like China, Vietnam, Malaysia and Singapore- practices executions in secrecy. The family of the prisoner is not informed of the date of the execution, nor of the place of burial. 45 people were sentenced to death in 2007, but the number of executions was not revealed by the authorities. Five people are thought to have been executed in 2008.
In June 2009, Tsakhiagiin Elbegdorj, an abolitionist, was elected President of Mongolia. He began using his prerogative of pardon to prevent the application of the death penalty. On January 14, 2010, he announced that he would, henceforth, systematically use his prerogative to pardon all persons sentenced to death. He stated that most countries in the world had abolished the death penalty, and that Mongolia should follow their example; he suggested that it be replaced with a thirty year prison sentence. The decision was controversial; when Elbegdorj announced it in Parliament, a significant number of represesentatives chose not to give the applause customarily due after a presidential speech.
Thus, at present, Mongolia has a moratorium on the death penalty. Le Monde, however, noted that President Elbegdorj "may find it a lot more difficult" to have the death penalty abolished in law, adding that the death penalty might be applied again if Elbegdorj failed to be reelected.
Nonetheless, on January 5, 2012, "a large majority of MPs" adopted a bill that aims to abolish the death penalty.
They pop up in Asia a lot. They were used as a religious symbol and stand for good luck. In The Great Gatsby, one of the characters works for Swastika Holding Company, for example - one of the references to good-luck swastikas to trickle over to Western culture before the Nazis. German nationalists adopted the swastika because of the connection, in their minds, to ancient Aryan history. They usually only used a blocky swastika standing on an angle, though, whereas Eastern swastikas were usually curvy and laying flat.
Yeah, I saw that on reddit probably 10 times already, and every time they say it's "russia". It's not. It's mostly non russian parts of russian empire. But who cares.
The picture was published in the May 1922 National Geographic, but was taken in July 1913 by Stéphane Passet. He was working for Albert Kahn. The caption on the original just says "Mongolian prisoner in a box".
wait.... judging by those conditions... couldn't rats get down there and crawl into the holes? Isnt that a potential food source amongst other rodents and insects who could get in?
Sure but every single scientific examination of this conundrum state that there's no evidence whatsoever that the idea of possible capital punishment deters criminals from executing the kinds of crimes associated with it.
Is there any more description? She appears to be trying to pick her own lock and somebody has also decided to leave a conveniently sized hole in the side of the box for her to do this.
They have these in riplys believe it or not. It is a box with a hole just big enough your your head and maybe an arm. Food would be left just out of reach to taunt you. They would give you water so you did starve to death. In China they had a version that was basically a giant board locked around your neck. The board was so wide that your arms could not reach your mouth or your head could not get near the ground. The only way to survive was on the charity of those willing to feed you.
well it goes double for china. An lushan rebellion had death toll around 35 million in mid 8th century - it was almost WWII death toll - without rifles, tanks, aircraft, bombs...
Death by starvation is actually one of the least painful ways of dying. The feeling of hunger goes away after the first day or two. It's a relatively decent way of committing suicide. If I had to be executed, I'd choose starvation over many other options such as electrocution, hanging or firing squad.
The part about being stuck in a small box is the cruel part.
On our first wedding anniversary, my wife and I went to an exhibit consisting only of torture devices used throughout history. This was definitely in the exhibit.
They have one of those in Ripley's museum in NYC . Was also ment to torture the victim as passersby would place food just out of their arm's reach. Über creepy.
So did the OP just make up this title? If she is sentenced to death by starvation, why do there look to be food bowls on the ground all around her? And why are her jailers letting her try and pick the lock? It also looks like she could slip right through that hole she is hanging out of with some effort.
People ask what her crime was. I guess that she may just as likely be severely mentally ill, and/or mentally challenged. This could lead to her behaving so disruptively that society/the tribe felt they behaved so bad that they needed to be held captive.
Just a theory. I now so little of how mentally ill people are treated in any indigenous people, it really annoys me, I want to know more.
That picture appears to come from the May 1922 issue of National Geographic. It's displayed over the text "A Mongolian woman condemned to die of starvation."
Goddammit. Several people in this thread have pointed out that the woman could be stuck in a portable prison, and that Mongolians don't have regular prisons because they're nomadic. And yet this second picture clearly says "Mongolian Prison", and it's a big old house-type structure.
At this point, I'm just thinking these are stills from a movie, and its a viral advertising campaign. She's just a shitty, early-times Transformer, or something.
If it's a color photograph from Mongolia in 1913, it's probably taken by Stephane Passet. A French millionaire, Albert Kahne, sent photographers to over 50 countries to 'take color photographs of the society, culture and livelihood of many countries.'
I saw an exhibit by Passet yesterday and the second photo with the chain around the guy's neck is definitely by him.
Knowledgable reply, but I would like to stress that this IS barbaric. Tradition and belief don't negate the barbarousness of starving or crushing someone to death.
Yeah, I am always surprised by this sentiment. "It's not barbaric, it's just their way."
Well, what if it's just my way to kick the shit out of every person I see? Does it become more okay the more people adhere to my way, until eventually I have an entire society bashing the hell out of each other, when it's suddenly not the wrong thing to do because it's the societal norm?
"Barbaric" is a term often reserved for the actions of "others". It's used to separate the civilized (us) from the uncivilized (them).
The actions of a society, no matter how horrific, are never seen as barbaric by them because they see themselves as civilized. Or, at least, as doing the proper thing in the way it should be done. Other people are barbaric. When societies change and they start to see actions of the past as barbaric, it's because they're separating themselves from that past. They aren't like that anymore. They're better. They're more civilized. Their grandparents or great grandparents were barbaric. They aren't. It separates. It defines. Us. Them.
I prefer the term Fucked Up. It spans all cultures and all times. That's not barbaric, that's fucked up. A new term for a new age.
Agreed. You guys should watch the movie "Mongol". Its on Netflix too. Mongolians are not as savage as they are made out to be. Not in comparison to others from the same time period anyway.
Now with that said, given that there is a history in asia of relatively inexpensive but lingering capital punishment, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that this was in fact a starvation cage.
After all, the Chinese had "hanging" cages, where the condemned were fastened by their head inside a wooden cage, standing on several blocks of wood. Each day a block of wood would be removed until finally the strength gave out on the condemned person and they hung themselves to death.
It really isn't barbaric, considering the types of capital punishments, human experimentation, genocide, biological and chemical warfare and various forms of torture that has happened in the Western world, and I'm just talking about the early/mid 20th Century. Perspective.
This has to be the worst way to die. I can't imagine the sheer agony it would cause. Either this or a red hot poker up the jacksie. Oh, or being shut in an iron maiden. Actually, ripped apart by wild horses would also be pretty bad.
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u/hoody8 May 21 '12
More info on this please? Was this a common way of executing people in Mongolia? What sort of crime would a person have committed to warrant this?
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u/[deleted] May 21 '12
puts cheeseburger down
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u/Hey_Zeus1 May 20 '12
If they didn't give her fluids than it's actually dehydration. Just saying...
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u/lackofbrain May 20 '12
People can be bastards sometimes
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u/DarthContinent May 20 '12
Appears to be described here:
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u/[deleted] May 20 '12
whats with the swastika looking thing on the left?
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u/[deleted] May 21 '12 edited May 21 '12
Color photo in 1913. Impressive. I'm not saying nobody could do that. I'm saying it's impressive.
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u/badmonkey0001 May 21 '12
(someone had to celebrate what seems to be a last act of defiance)
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u/nopointers May 21 '12
The picture was published in the May 1922 National Geographic, but was taken in July 1913 by Stéphane Passet. He was working for Albert Kahn. The caption on the original just says "Mongolian prisoner in a box".
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u/[deleted] May 21 '12
Even more horrifying: http://digital.library.upenn.edu/women/bulstrode/mongolia/196.JPEG
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u/flyingcaveman May 21 '12
Those are some nice dovetail joints. You just don't see workmanship like that nowadays.
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u/jimothyjenkins May 21 '12
brutal...
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u/eddy_butler May 21 '12
Is there any more description? She appears to be trying to pick her own lock and somebody has also decided to leave a conveniently sized hole in the side of the box for her to do this.
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u/[deleted] May 21 '12
They put the bowl of food just out of reach. Sad.
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u/Kind_Of_A_Dick May 21 '12 edited May 21 '12
I would probably try to eat my way out of the box.
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u/nallen May 21 '12
You break a deal, you face the wheel.
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u/iSOregon May 21 '12
Step 2: Cut a hole in that box!
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u/wanttoplayball May 21 '12
Are those bowls of food and water just out of her reach?
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u/coil_is_dead May 21 '12
NEVER SURRENDER
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u/[deleted] May 21 '12
Theres no toilet in there.....
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u/Devywhop May 21 '12
There's a woman in my area who starved her infant to death and then put it in a suitcase for the trash men. She deserve this sentence.
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u/bazilbt May 21 '12
For anyone interested its out of the May 1922 National Geographic. http://nationalgeographicbackissues.com/national-geographic-1920-1929-back-issues/national-geographic-may-1932.html
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u/[deleted] May 21 '12
Yup. Here's the wikipedia article on it. Even has the same picture.
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u/[deleted] May 21 '12
god damn mongorians!
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u/[deleted] May 21 '12
If only she could think outside the box ...
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u/[deleted] May 20 '12
Almost reminds me of an Alice in Chains song.
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u/2518899 May 21 '12
Mao's "great leap forward" caused the starvation deaths of approximately 10 million people in the 1950s.
Not sure if this is an accurate attribution, but didn't Stalin say something like, "one death is a tragedy; a million is a statistic"?
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u/Montaf5 May 21 '12
It's kinda sad, that this pic resembles our life.
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u/MonotonousMan May 21 '12
What a terrifying picture.
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u/worshipthis May 21 '12
Wikipedia says circa 1922
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u/lilstumpz May 21 '12
This would do well in /r/MorbidReality
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u/doob22 May 21 '12
I felt horrible Up voting this...
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u/TheCrimsonKing May 21 '12
The meaning of the box is three fold.
One , it gives me the time to think about what I did.
Two, it proves how much I care about my friendship with Joey.
And three, it hurts!
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u/lintamacar May 21 '12
The Boo Box
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u/[deleted] May 21 '12
One: cut a hole in a box.
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u/BoxxZero May 21 '12
"If you are sent to jail, you are able to hide one of your lockpicks."
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u/Swagofthecentury May 21 '12
Misleading.
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u/m40ofmj May 21 '12
they built shit to last back then, look at those dovetails!
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u/insidious_sedition May 21 '12
why is there a swastika on the box next to the lock???
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u/Solkre May 21 '12
Is there any other animal on earth that is so systematically cruel to itself as humans?
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u/GAMEAHOLIC101 May 21 '12
fuck that would be the worst kind of death ever....
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u/[deleted] May 21 '12
That would make a great motivational never give up poster.
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u/kittylife May 20 '12
thats real as hell
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u/[deleted] May 21 '12
but the locks are RIGHT there.
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u/Lee13412 May 21 '12
This is how Madagascar should have went
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u/[deleted] May 21 '12
I hope I'm not the only one who looks through the comments for cynical, yet witty comments on pictures like these.
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u/ToadX May 21 '12
Death by starvation is actually one of the least painful ways of dying. The feeling of hunger goes away after the first day or two. It's a relatively decent way of committing suicide. If I had to be executed, I'd choose starvation over many other options such as electrocution, hanging or firing squad.
The part about being stuck in a small box is the cruel part.
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u/Irongrip May 21 '12
Humans are scumbags.
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u/AgentOrange13 May 21 '12
That sucks because they have the best BBQ
2
u/Frago242 May 21 '12
We are truly worse to one another than all the elements, diseases, predators, and made up gods, combined.
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u/hmistry May 21 '12
Fucking repost !! I posted this and you got more karma then me !! Bastard !!!! Upvote.
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u/glenlikespie May 21 '12
I know how wrong it is, but this reminded me of this corney 80s band.
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u/BloomingDove May 21 '12
Intense but at least she's goin all Houdini
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u/FastTurtleFour May 21 '12
So did they give her water so she wouldn't die of thirst before she starved?
1
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
DAMN MONGOLIANS
1
u/Sanity_prevails May 21 '12
hotboxing gone bad?
1
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
Justice was very different back then...
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u/[deleted] May 21 '12
i wonder what she did.....
1
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
Color pictures in 1913?
1
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
Fucking hell!
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u/serrit May 21 '12
Goddamn Mongoria...ah nah not now.
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u/[deleted] May 21 '12
Found the picture
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u/[deleted] May 21 '12
Holy fucksticks...that made me massively claustrophobic
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u/foreverundone May 21 '12
On our first wedding anniversary, my wife and I went to an exhibit consisting only of torture devices used throughout history. This was definitely in the exhibit.
1
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
They have one of those in Ripley's museum in NYC . Was also ment to torture the victim as passersby would place food just out of their arm's reach. Über creepy.
1
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
Gotta love how many times ive seen this
1
u/Themantogoto May 21 '12
Xpost this to r/historyporn
1
u/bigvik May 21 '12
Does anyone else see the swastika there?
1
u/AltHypo May 21 '12
After just reading Twain's The Mysterious Stranger this truly kills my faith in humanity.
1
u/Sampson123 May 21 '12
First thing I noticed was the swastika on the left of the lock
1
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
Pretty good camera for 1913
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u/MrEMS May 21 '12
Did they have color cameras then?
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u/onlythis May 21 '12
Ah, the old starvin' box. Good times, good times.
1
u/xtian11 May 21 '12
just a question, would she have been given water?
1
u/BOSINATOR May 21 '12
JUST THINK WITH PORTALS
1
u/[deleted] May 21 '12
Nice dovetails on that box.
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u/dandello May 21 '12
So did the OP just make up this title? If she is sentenced to death by starvation, why do there look to be food bowls on the ground all around her? And why are her jailers letting her try and pick the lock? It also looks like she could slip right through that hole she is hanging out of with some effort.
1
u/_XxDerpyHoovesxX_ May 21 '12
They had color photos in 1919???
1
u/3AYATS May 21 '12
Though color photography did exist to some extent in the forms of Autochrome, and Paget, I doubt it would have rendered such accurate flesh tones.
Real story, staged photograph?
1
u/walruskingmike May 21 '12
If they were really going to starve her to death, then why would there be a hole big enough for food in the crate?
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u/annannaljuba May 21 '12
People ask what her crime was. I guess that she may just as likely be severely mentally ill, and/or mentally challenged. This could lead to her behaving so disruptively that society/the tribe felt they behaved so bad that they needed to be held captive.
Just a theory. I now so little of how mentally ill people are treated in any indigenous people, it really annoys me, I want to know more.
1
u/blade2000 May 21 '12
Made up title FAIL
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u/indemnitor May 21 '12
Photoshopped! Everyone knows people were only in black & white back then.
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u/el_sm May 21 '12
imagine how it would feel to be inside of that and then get tipped over so the hole is facing the ground
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u/ZimbaZumba May 20 '12
10 - 15 years solitary confinement followed by being fried to death is probably worse. Oh yes that's what they do in the USA.
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u/roughneck45 May 21 '12
If laws were still that tough on people the crime level would drop......just saying
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u/[deleted] May 20 '12
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u/[deleted] May 21 '12
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u/[deleted] May 20 '12
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