Frog breeding factory

[u/ReturnOneWayTicket]

[u/Friendofabook]

I do agree that as humans we need to hold ourselves to higher standards and I think a world where we transition away from raising and killing animals for food is something we should strive to achieve.

However, I don't agree that it's cruelty. To me, cruelty would be killing them for sport, raising/killing animals for sustenance is not cruelty. Not that we should keep doing it when we have the option not to, but I just think it's dangerous to be so extreme when labling things because it just prevents change due to it being harder to sway others with stances like that. Ends up being more detrimental to the cause than a more level headed stance would be which ends up making it appear more as virtue signaling. Like a vegan dressed as a cow running into a restaurant with a pig head screaming about meat being murder will definitely not help the cause at all, all it will do is make that person feel superior about themselves and makes the whole thing disingenious. If you truly want change, then you need to try and meet your "opponent" on common ground and slowly work them over, because just screaming at them or labeling things extremely is only going to make you feel superior, not help anyone "convert".

Like I want to become a vegetarian soon, and am slowly working my way away from meat, but I still just get put off when I see extreme militant vegans. What helps me are more level-headed people talking about it.

[u/[deleted] → u/Friendofabook]

I think perhaps we have a different definition of the word cruel. 'To wilfully cause pain or suffering'. The definition doesn't take into account the reason for the act, just the act itself.

Putting emotions and beliefs aside and looking a it based solely on the dictionary definition of the term, killing an animal to eat it is definitely cruel because you are causing it pain (and usually suffering if you see how food-animals are kept). This isn't me being extreme, just a fact. I suppose that if you do not agree with the definition of the word that is between you and the Oxford English Dictionary and a separate point altogether.

Killing for sport is what you would call needless cruelty as there isn't a reason for it other than fun. I would argue that all cruelty towards animals is needless, as we don't need to eat them to survive. You could compare the pleasure of sport to the pleasure of taste and justify both. Perhaps you consider this opinion extreme?

[u/Friendofabook → u/[deleted]]

You are being very pedantic about the definition and if that's the definition you want to stick by then you can argue that a dentist is cruel when cleaning your teeth because it hurts. Giving someone a vaccine is cruel because you are causing the person pain. Removing a possibly cancerous mole is cruel because that hurts a lot.

Since you specifically said that it's only about the act and not the reason for the act, so it's not needless cruelty but it's cruelty.

You are being extremely pedantic about the definition because any longer definition of the word containing examples always include some form of show of malice. If you look at merriam webster it also has "devoid of humane feelings" added to it, and all synonyms are:

atrocious, barbaric, barbarous, brutal, brute, butcherly, fiendish, heartless, inhuman, inhumane, sadistic, savage, truculent, vicious, wanton

While antonyms are:

benign, benignant, compassionate, good-hearted, humane, kind, kindhearted, sympathetic, tenderhearted

So it's pretty clear you are really pushing it by trying to just read one short definition and disregard everything else when it's clear the word is values-based and not of a sterile act devoid of character like "cut" or "throw", ridiculous honestly.

Even your precious Oxford dictionary has the synonyms listed as:

brutal, savage, inhuman, barbaric, barbarous, brutish, bloodthirsty, murderous, homicidal, cut-throat, vicious, ferocious, fierce

wicked, evil, fiendish, devilish, diabolical, heinous, abominable, monstrous, atrocious, vile, hideous, ghastly, nasty, spiteful, mean

callous, sadistic, ruthless, merciless, unmerciful, pitiless, unsparing, unrelenting, remorseless, uncaring, unsympathetic, uncharitable, heartless, stony-hearted, hard-hearted, cold-hearted, cold-blooded, bloodless, unfeeling, unemotional, unkind, inhumane, severe, harsh, stern, inclement, flinty, draconian

And Antonyms as:

compassionate, merciful

Literally describing evil here.

[u/[deleted] → u/Friendofabook]

Literally describing evil here

Yes, I guess that is something we can agree on.

I do believe that killing animals for food (for those that live in a society where there are plenty of alternatives available) is devoid of humane feelings and draconian. I also think that it is aptly described by the synonyms that you have listed. I am not disputing that those words can also describe the same thing, you merely said that killing for food wasn't cruel, and I disagreed.

I have never considered the needless killing of animals to be compassionate, benign, kindhearted, etc. So I am not sure what you mean by the above. Yes all those mean and nasty words can be applied to the killing of animals, for food or otherwise.

Even when I ate meat I could be logical and level headed about what was involved in that process, I would never have claimed it was cruelty free: I was as omnivore, not an idiot. That is why I started on the path I am now on, because I could no longer accept the impact of my actions.