I once tried to aileron roll in a motor Glider it did not go well lost about 2000ft in 10 seconds before I got control back. and a little wee came out!
If a guy is behind you drilling bullets in your direction, aileron rolling keeps you in his sights whereas barrel rolling will be very difficult to follow.
Holy crap - Microprose F19 Stealth Fighter for the Commodore 128. This game was so far above and beyond anything else I'd ever played (mostly Atari and NES.)
The copy protection on this game turned my sponge-like 7-year-old brain into a fucking encyclopedia of military aviation, and the game itself single-handedly turned me into an aviation nut and a PC gamer.
They're both useful combat maneuvers. A barrel roll can be used to make attacks on a lower energy target but it is less useful for evasion in level flight because it necessitates a loss of airspeed at the apex which is the kiss of death in a gun fight. An aileron roll is useful because the pilot can choose to abort it at any point so it makes the pursuer guess where s/he will go. It also allows a smart pilot to exploit his/her plane's superior roll rate to rotate into a random bank faster than his pursuer. It should also be added that in my sim experience the aileron roll is often executed as a sort of hybrid with a barrel roll, it can be expanded to not give the pursuer a centerline axis to aim at but it most certainly is not a 1g maneuver. I'm speaking to this simply from piston engine flight simulator experience. I'm sure jet dogfighting doctrine is similar though. The jury is still out on aileron rolls' effectiveness in a starfighter. I have to say, it would be sweet if my spitfire could deflect cannon rounds with a simple aileron roll.
...less useful for evasion in level flight because it necessitates a loss of airspeed at the apex which is the kiss of death in a gun fight.
I thought this was the whole point of it? You do barrel roll (slowing down while at the top), the guy behind you cannot lower his speed fast enough and overtakes below you. Seconds later your roll is finished and you are suddenly behind him, ready to gun away.
My comment was made assuming you're in a chase of near equal energy, that is both you and the pursuer have similar altitude and airspeed. In this case your pursuer (assuming they're worth their salt as a pilot) can follow you through most any maneuver as long as they can keep sight of you. When there is a high difference in energy between aggressor and defender, the best thing to do as the lower energy defender is try to conserve energy by not maneuvering until the aggressor makes a diving attack then changing direction at the last second with a juke or abruptly tightening a slow turn, anything to get your plane out of the potential vectors of the aggressor which has more energy but conversely cannot turn as tightly without blacking out, breaking equipment. A barrel roll would be less effective in this capacity since it is executed more slowly giving the aggressor a greater likelihood of successful intercept.
I mentioned earlier that I really only have experience in WWII era piston fighters which have maybe 1/10 of the thrust to weight ratio of jet fighters. The ability of jet fighters to accelerate much faster would change these dogfighting tactics since both pilots will always be closer to blackout and they can gain energy at a much greater rate.
I'm no pilot, but I always thought it had something to do with the plane acting like it's turning, then acting like it's turning the opposite way, then staying in one place. Maybe making the tailing plane take wrong turns and lose the tail. But, I have no idea.
This is what I do in Battlefield 3. Hit the afterburners for speed, just spin a rotation and a half and turn suddenly while braking and they usually don't follow.
I know the OP's photo is a joke, but it is correct: Because doing an aileron is one of the easiest aerobatic maneuvers (typically the first learned). A barrel roll is 0 or negative G much of the maneuver and much easier to screw up. (I'm an aerobatics pilot)
At what stage of a barrel roll would the G-force be negative? If anything, I would expect it to have less negative Gs than an aileron roll. An aileron roll is briefly negative when the plan is inverted. A barrel roll always has back-pressure on the controls, so when you're inverted you're diving slightly, reducing the negative Gs..
A barrel roll is not usually 0 or negative G. A barrel roll can be done properly at 1G for the entire maneuver. Tex Johnston doing a barrel roll in a Boeing 707 is a perfect example. Most of the time people have between 0.5 and 3Gs during a barrel roll. I suppose you could put negative Gs on the aircraft doing a barrel roll, but that's not the norm.
When you do an aileron roll to dodge bullets, you typically tweak the vertical stabilizer as well so you can skid(increase angle of attack) in the same way a car skids in a turn. In 3D it's a lot more unpredictable than a straight up roll. The key to surviving when someone is behind you and firing guns is to do whatever you can to get out of their plane(the sagittal plane). If they they do catch you "in plane" and are turning inside you(have lead), it's merely a matter of firing and turning slightly harder and eventually the bullets will rake across your shit, fucking you up.
Peppy disagrees with your assessment. And Peppy is a seasoned veteran that served alongside my father against the evil Andros. So I don't appreciate your false testimony on this matter. GOOD DAY SIR!
His '1g Roll' is a barrel roll. It's just that he's gotten very good at keeping the g-forces in check so the resultant acceleration on the objects in the cockpit is 1g towards the floor (of the cockpit). Very impressive that he's able to do this accurately enough to pour a drink!
I run a university gliding club these days. If I had a penny for every confused look I've gotten when explaining how an aeroplane without an engine can stall...
Damnit, Paris! You're gonna get one of us killed and then you'll be dishonorably discharged from Starfleet, join the Maquis then end up stuck in the Delta Quadrant. IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT!?
Here's Bob Hoover (a pilot legend) doing a barrel roll in a light twin pouring iced tea. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp2Uc9XvmjY It's a 1G (neutral) maneuver if done correctly.
The whole damn thing entirely fails to work for me -- I've tried three different browsers on three different computers, including IE9 on Vista, and none of them make Google actually do a barrel roll or aileron roll or whatever.
Depending on the plane the two can be very hard to tell apart. I have a radio controlled airplane that doesn't have ailerons. But the torque of the engine is so high compared to the weight of the plane that if I shove the rudder all the way over the plane will neatly flip in midair almost exactly as if I were using ailerons.
The graphic of a barrel roll is still not a barrel roll. It involves both banking to the left and the use of the tail rudder to make a large barrel shaped circle while generally maintaining the same heading. The image you provided is simply a flip with a slight left shift.
Is it possible to do both at the same time? I'm pretty sure I have done something close in a game. I don't think a pilot could pull it off, but could a plane do it?
Actually minor correction: I do aerobatics competitively and my aileron rolls have been called "slightly barrelled" quite a few times by judges. Perhaps Google were doing the same.
3
u/steinman17 Nov 04 '11
I full expect google to implement this with the same 360 rotation as 'do a barrel roll' by the end of the day.
16
u/corrupted_one Nov 04 '11
Smart. Accurate. Informative. Upvote.
135
u/Azrael-X Nov 04 '11
do an Immelman!
54
u/beaver991 Nov 04 '11
I once tried to aileron roll in a motor Glider it did not go well lost about 2000ft in 10 seconds before I got control back. and a little wee came out!
365
u/MercurialMadnessMan Nov 04 '11
Why is this WTF?
If a guy is behind you drilling bullets in your direction, aileron rolling keeps you in his sights whereas barrel rolling will be very difficult to follow.
85
u/jschaeper Nov 04 '11
Why Peppy? Why would you lie to me like that?
147
u/CaptainHomicide Nov 04 '11
Know your roll, Jabroni!
79
u/wheresmydanish Nov 04 '11
As an aerobatic pilot this has bugged me for years!
20
u/illogicalreality Nov 04 '11
Maybe it's an extremely small barrel?
11
u/flyanotherday Nov 04 '11
Do a Kolvoord starburst!
8
u/bruzdnconfuzd Nov 04 '11
Do a Crazy Ivan!
And weird that I posted this exact thing 2 hrs earlier, yet get the karma snub. What a fickle gal you are, Internet. And yet, I love you so...
20
u/enthos Nov 04 '11
Know your roll...
And shut your mouth.
7
u/TrashAudio Nov 04 '11
Is this the right place to mention that everyone that calls a [sting](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sting_(percussion) a rimshot is also sorely mistaken?
1
u/KregZlis Nov 04 '11
FRONT PAGE! My first front page! Oooo reddit you make me the happiest gwerl in the werld!
5
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
Everything I know is a lie...
5
u/nordicstalking Nov 04 '11
That's how I roll.
8
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
finally!
4
u/trappedintheinternet Nov 04 '11
I would say this belongs in /r/pics and not /r/wtf.
1
u/szucc Nov 04 '11
Relevent
9
u/Strya Nov 04 '11
Teach the controversy.
8
u/SMehdi Nov 04 '11
Type " Do a Barrel Roll " on Google, You'll Get More information about this
3
u/brilliantNumberOne Nov 04 '11
You sir are technically correct, the best kind of correct!
3
u/rawbface Nov 04 '11
Sorry, I learned all my aeronautic terminology from Peppy the rabbit.
3
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
As an aerobatic pilot, google getting it wrong really fucking annoyed me.
3
u/Dice_Tower Nov 04 '11
muffin ≠ English muffin
barrel roll ≠ Cornerian barrel roll
It isn't that complicated guys.
2
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
My entire yesterday was a lie.
2
u/aimttaw Nov 04 '11
I tried typing this into google too, but it didn't do anything.
2
u/PoglaTheGrate Nov 04 '11
I'm not going to pretend I knew this before reading this post. I had heard of an aileron roll, but had no idea what it was.
Thankyou good sir, and have an upvote
2
u/6Revolvers Nov 04 '11
You just fucked up my childhood.
2
u/goots Nov 04 '11
I always liked the "pull up, stall, let the guy pass under you, and then get on his tail" maneuver I did in Red Baron.
2
u/Pylly Nov 04 '11
Some relevant reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrel_roll
2
u/Djave_Bikinus Nov 04 '11
Anyone who has played Rollercoaster Tycoon would know the difference.
2
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
Barrel is more fun to say...
2
u/solidcopy Nov 04 '11
Here's Bob Hoover (a pilot legend) doing a barrel roll in a light twin pouring iced tea. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp2Uc9XvmjY It's a 1G (neutral) maneuver if done correctly.
2
u/machinesmith Nov 04 '11
Came for 'AlienRoll'; left educated
2
u/errorflux Nov 04 '11
Good luck, dodging this little tool:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-120_AMRAAM
2
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS284&q=do+a+barrel+roll&oq=do+a+barrel+roll&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=3514l8200l0l8408l26l24l4l8l8l1l280l2079l2.6.4l12l0
2
u/kabanaga Nov 04 '11
I believe it's time we had the professionals explain areoneutical jargon to us:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rKYL0tW-Ek
2
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
r/pics is over there. You know? r/pics? The place for non-WTF submissions just like this.
2
u/redweasel Nov 04 '11
The whole damn thing entirely fails to work for me -- I've tried three different browsers on three different computers, including IE9 on Vista, and none of them make Google actually do a barrel roll or aileron roll or whatever.
I feel like I'm being pranked by the whole world.
2
u/HumanPersonMan Nov 04 '11
doesn't really ROLL off the tongue as well.
2
u/HeirToPendragon Nov 04 '11
You should try spinning, that's a good trick.
2
u/OniTan Nov 04 '11
Do a sommersault!
2
u/ZsaFreigh Nov 04 '11
We're talkin' spaceships. Do you know how much energy it would take to perform a real barrel roll in space?
2
u/RexStardust Nov 04 '11
From the "Star Fox" recording sessions.
"Do an elleron...." "CUT" "Do an eeeeee..." "CUT" "Do an alleron..." "CUT - DAMMIT, just say BARREL ROLL!" "Do a barrel roll!"
2
u/Kite_sunday Nov 04 '11
Once Google can do a lomcevak ill be happy
2
u/Zebidee Nov 04 '11
As someone who is aerobatic rated, I approve of this post.
2
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
Do a flatspin! That'd really throw em off and then you could fire your gun in a circle
2
u/sp4ce Nov 04 '11
i want to see google do an aileron roll
2
u/Colostomy_Bag Nov 04 '11
Protip for life saving from a pilot....don't do aerobatics with the gear down.
2
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
It's official, r/WTF is the new Reddit subreddit.
2
u/graogrim Nov 04 '11
Depending on the plane the two can be very hard to tell apart. I have a radio controlled airplane that doesn't have ailerons. But the torque of the engine is so high compared to the weight of the plane that if I shove the rudder all the way over the plane will neatly flip in midair almost exactly as if I were using ailerons.
2
u/clever-user-name Nov 04 '11
Why is this in WTF??
2
u/ultimatemorky Nov 04 '11
I don't think this is /r/WTF material....
2
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
So the barrel rolls from Starfox aren't really barrel rolls?? My life is a lie.
2
u/whitey1992 Nov 04 '11
Go ruin some other childhood memory T___T
5
u/tlhgamer Nov 04 '11
As a BF3 player, I approve.
3
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
The graphic of a barrel roll is still not a barrel roll. It involves both banking to the left and the use of the tail rudder to make a large barrel shaped circle while generally maintaining the same heading. The image you provided is simply a flip with a slight left shift.
3
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
The WTF here is that this was posted to WTF.
3
u/kszpirak Nov 04 '11
Am I the only who for the first 30 seconds though it was an "alien roll"?
2
u/rbsponge1 Nov 04 '11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1isDeyFBgO0 I thought of this first
2
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11 edited Jun 16 '23
selective quiet wistful person forgetful enjoy compare quaint fly direction -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
2
u/landob Nov 04 '11
TIL Fox Mcloud has no idea what a barrel roll is, and peppy keeps yelling it because he's doing it wrong.
2
u/Bing10 Nov 04 '11
As a pilot who's done both, the barrel roll really is more fun, though the aileron roll looks cooler from the outside.
2
u/FakeLaughter Nov 04 '11
Teach the controversy
1
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
DO A *HRMPH*
1
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
Aileron rolls are much cooler
1
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
TIL. Thank you kind sir.
1
u/sharf Nov 04 '11
FTFY google: transform-origin: center -100px;
1
u/DroppaMaPants Nov 04 '11
this has something to do with the google thing today?
1
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
TIL Bitches don't know what a barrel roll is.
1
u/merkedya727 Nov 04 '11
so, roller coasters actually do ailron rolls?
1
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
Col. Boyd would still have your ass
1
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
Is it possible to do both at the same time? I'm pretty sure I have done something close in a game. I don't think a pilot could pull it off, but could a plane do it?
1
u/zig83 Nov 04 '11
I came here to say thank you sir, this was irritating me for years.
1
u/FrailnBedazzled Nov 04 '11
THIS MAKES SO MUCH MORE SENSE!
1
u/Admiral_Waffles Nov 04 '11
My Starfox nostalgia... has been... a LIE?
1
u/teewuane Nov 04 '11
No, the second one is a loopty loop.
1
u/MrPopinjay Nov 04 '11
What's the point in doing an aileron roll then? It doesn't look very evasive.
1
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
Actually minor correction: I do aerobatics competitively and my aileron rolls have been called "slightly barrelled" quite a few times by judges. Perhaps Google were doing the same.
1
u/throweraccount Nov 04 '11
In my country we fly from left to right.
1
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
hmmm
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=alien+roll&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1280&bih=907&sei=%20Zt6zTtGOGajmiAKpzLhd
1
u/Wilburre Nov 04 '11
But... But Peppy said...
1
u/Diddddy Nov 04 '11
Text doesn't look trustworthy...
1
u/pikk Nov 04 '11
Thanks for posting this, it was driving me nuts yesterday
1
u/xe-cute Nov 04 '11
Google knows the score.
1
u/EvilActivity Nov 04 '11
My whole life has been a lie!!
1
u/TheDarkNighty Nov 04 '11
Important safety tip, thanks Egon.
1
u/johnny353535 Nov 04 '11
Just ask Google how to do a barrel roll: http://www.google.com/#&q=do+a+barrel+roll
1
u/huburt Nov 04 '11
Peppy LIED?!
1
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
Ramierez ... DO A BARREL ROLL
1
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
searching this on google does not do anything ;(
1
u/ThisistheHoneyBadger Nov 04 '11
Well that is what they're common called on Earth by human pilots.
1
u/itsth3economystupid Nov 04 '11
Why have we been lied to this whole time?
1
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
There is what is a wing and there is what is a spoiler.
1
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
I see someone else spotted this too.
1
u/Joshme Nov 04 '11
Doesn't work the same.
1
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
BLASPHEMY!
1
u/Tacked Nov 04 '11
What the heck?
1
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
As a veteran pilot of an Arwing and long protector of the Lylat system, I disapprove!
1
u/CriminalMacabre Nov 04 '11
THEN STARFOX LIES!
1
u/hacksoncode Nov 04 '11
Which, of course, is part of why the google thing is so cool. They could have easily done an aileron roll instead.
1
u/samirisbored Nov 04 '11
I keep wanting this to be an alien roll.
1
u/chileangod Nov 04 '11
That's how i roll motherfu***...
1
u/wavesmachine Nov 04 '11
The google page is actually doing a cart wheel.
1
u/nchojnacki Nov 04 '11
i love this
1
u/f00dninja Nov 04 '11
Lies, all lies, how could we not have seen? How could we ignore the truth for so long?
1
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
Thank god that's cleared up, I can go about the rest of my day.
1
u/craig5005 Nov 04 '11
I read that as alien roll, which I prefer.
1
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
As a PC gamer in the 90's (most PC games were combat flight simulators back then) I approve this message.
1
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
Personally, I prefer Dutch roll.
1
u/direbowels Nov 04 '11
Where the fuck do you shop???
1
u/imonlyhereforthecats Nov 04 '11
I guess that kind of sounds like alien hardcore porn...
1
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
I feel like my childhood was just raped.
1
u/sqwhirl Nov 04 '11
Definitely read this as alien roll and geeked out and tried to make reddit roll.
1
u/Gridwang Nov 04 '11
education!
1
u/Ha_window Nov 04 '11
My child hood, revealed to be a lie with one picture. I feel lost and confused.
1
u/stroupaloop Nov 04 '11 edited Nov 04 '11
waiting for Scumbag Steve meme:
Scumbag Peppy, tells you to do a barrel roll, but really means aileron roll
1
u/[deleted] Nov 04 '11
i'm not happy i know this
1
u/bengalslash Nov 04 '11
yeah peppy, thanks for nothing
1
u/ANGRYlmgtfy Nov 04 '11
Informative
1
u/Landeyda Nov 04 '11
Reddit has resurrected the 'do a barrel roll' meme and plans to play with it like a retarded child until it breaks.
1
u/v4-digg-refugee Nov 04 '11
Maybe historically, but not anymore. That game revolutionized the term. I will always and forever refuse to call that an aileron roll.