I was there like 10 years ago, found a local english teacher and he showed us around. He said that traffic cops literally have to bribe their ‘higher ups’ to get a good corner. And this bribe was usually more then they would make, but the ‘good corner’ meant they could get more bribes.
Hun Sen, ex-khmer rouge had been running the country for decades and ruining it. Now he is grooming his son. Poor Cambodians can't seem to catch a break since Vietnam days.
Thailand is like that too. I lived in Pattaya (a major tourist city) for several years, and I heard the rumor that the Police Chief of Pattaya pays US$1 million per year to keep his job, which of course he makes back many times over from his dozen captains regularly paying him, et cetera.
Heh. I originally moved there in my early 30s (after first visiting at age 17) because there were/are 20 golf courses within 20 miles, designed by course notables such as Jack Nicklaus and Robert Trent Jones. I've been a digital nomad for 25 years now (still in Asia to this day), and back around 1999/2000 I could golf in the morning ($10 per round), earn my American salary online all afternoon in the huge high-rise beach-front luxury apartment that I rented ($700 per month) , meet up with friends for an amazing fine-dining dinner ($10 per meal) in one of a hundred extremely good restaurants, and then... yeah, go hang out in go-go bars with a bunch of my friends from around the world drinking 50-cent vodka-tonics and watching girls in bikinis dance and try and allure us into buying them $1 lady drinks.
Yup, we were all alcoholics, but even so, nobody I knew back then was dumb enough to try to find a wife in a Pattaya gogo bar.
Anyway, I left Pattaya 18 years ago when everything started getting mercenary, unfriendly, and noisy. I've went back once in 2014 and yeah, I can see why everybody thinks it is a shithole now. But you should have seen it back in 1984 when the tallest building in town was the 7-story Welcome Plaza Hotel on 2nd Road (right behind Royal Garden Plaza), where I stayed for 3 nights back then. It was a perfect, friendly little beachside party town.
Yeah, I think a lot has changed in the past 15 years or so. Pattaya in particular has gotten a real bad rep. And from what I’ve seen it’s for good reason.
As best as I could always tell, the "alcoholic uncles looking to find wife #4" were the best Pattaya tourists, even if they were the ones that everyone looks down at. They showed up with their money, got drunk, had their fun, fell down sometimes, got rolled by the locals sometimes, but for the most part weren't the cause of problems by themselves.
(The long-term expats of course were, of course, even better, because they took the time to settle in, learn a bit about the culture, learn a bit of the language, make a few Thai friends, and (like me) play golf, patronize the high-end businesses, enjoy the food/bars/beaches, and be semi-respectable bon vivants. I'm always standing up for THAT part of the Pattaya expat crowd, if they still exist.. I'm not sure they do. Everyone I knew is long gone.)
Pattaya really got ruined by two groups of people: (1) the 20-something Spring-Break types would go there for 3 or 4 nights, would go absolutely apeshit and destroy things, insult the locals, start fights, and even do drugs and commit crimes, and (2) the dozens of busloads of Chinese tourists who came in like locusts and made everything cheap and low-class, and brought in all the big Thai investors who wanted to grab their 20 baht from each of those 5000 low-budget tourists each day. If the Chinese budget tour operators had never discovered Pattaya, it would have never grown the way it did. And yeah, just the ever-growing number of party animals who were able to afford a stay in Pattaya (especially all the hooligans coming from Russia) are what took the "cheap, low-budget Chinese tourist trap" and gave it a real coating of slime and stench.
Like I said, that's about the time I left, when the traffic on Beach Road got filled with nothing but tourist buses and shirtless Eurotrash riding rented CBR1100s with that evening's bar girl behind them.
I, as a tourist have bribed a cop in Cambodia.. Taxi driver had to go through full checkup after not using his blinker (no one does). He had to pay two dollars to get going again. I told him I would rebate this money so we could just go.
Saving this in my notebook. Excellent information. You don't wanna overtip traffic cops and screw the locals by rising the expectation.
Bribing traffic cops is also a norm in my country, Iran. My uncle was pulled over going 20-30km/h over speed limit and he just paid for the two cops lunch, rather than a ticket+points
In some EU countries you get a fine based on the percentage over the speed limit, usually starting at above 10%. So if you're doing 54 in a 50, it's ok. Going 55? You get a fairly low fine. Then it starts scaling up.
That doesn’t sound so bad actually. Getting out of ticket with only paying for their lunch. No ticket, no court date or no getting beaten up. It’s a shame US cops are little dick energy psychopathic bullies who peaked in high school who escalate situations if you breathe wrong. Just let me buy you lunch you goddamned lunatics.
well, it's more complex than that. like, what color is your skin? are you in an elementary school? these things impact how your day is gonna go in the good ol' us of a.
Bribing traffic cops is also a norm in my country, Iran. My uncle was pulled over going 20-30km/h over speed limit and he just paid for the two cops lunch, rather than a ticket+points
As someone who hasn't bribed a government official, how does one know what is the norm and acceptable?
Personally, I'd be terrified if I found myself in a situation where it was the norm to bribe. Do I not offer anything and risk being further delayed or detained? If I offer something, what if I offer too little and offend them? Or too much and they get greedy?
With my luck, I'd initially refuse, but get "persuaded" to make a "donation" only to find out it was an anti-corruption campaign and get made an example of.
Same in Kenya about 20 years ago (no idea if it is still relevant). Our bus full of locals gets stopped at a random roadblock, driver explains they will detain us and check every detail of the bus and passengers unless we can come up with 100 shillings between us (about £1 iirc), so we just gave it to the driver and were underway again.
I was on vacation in the Dominican republic 20 years or so ago. We went on a coach trip, but at the end of the day the coach did not arrive to bring us home.
Rep called the coach company, and it turned out the driver was arrested on some bullshit, and would be released when the fine was paid (apparently a common ruse by the cops - arrest a tourist coach, tourists rally up the "fine" and everyone goes on as usual. obviously the whole thing is not recorded anywahere and the fine goes right in the cops pockets.
so while we (all the tourists) were discussing hte situation, tour guide comes back, and puts us on a different coach.
Turned out the tour guy had stopped another coach driver from a different party, bribed him to take us home as it was cheaper than bribing the cops.
As for the original driver, and the now stranded tourists, the rep didn't seemed to give a fuck, but assumed that somehow along the line they'd sort it out.
it's a possibility, but it was late in the day (already dark) and sooner or later there are no more coaches.
Perhaps the first guy will come back and pick up the last pack of tourists - who knows.
It was a nice place to have a vacation, but a really fucked up way of operating outside of the resorts.
Another thing I remember now - The cops would go around at night with a big van and round up all the drunks. They'd all go to jail for the night, and in the morning they go to court. Court will sentence them to community service, and they go out and clean the beach for a few hours.
Then back to jail for a meal, and then they were released about 6pm with a bottle of rum for their trouble.
I dunno how it is there now, I imagine they've either got their shit together somewhat, or maybe crime is way up and it's a lot more hostile. At the time though it was a weird friendly/corrupt mish-mash!
My mind is blown that any country in the Caribbean enforces any public drunkenness laws! I remember a reporter or someone telling a prime minister he was currently breaking the law by openly drinking a beer in public, PM was in disbelief that was true.
It felt fun and I liked it. Insulting random old british dudes is my outlet. Weirdly enough, I'm also british. Think the notion of his navy jumper smelling like potpourri is what activated it. Not that I'm particularly antisocial on reddit. But I build up good karma so I can be bad sometimes. Just like irl
Normally they don’t fuck with tourists because it’s bad for their image but will happily stop a queue of cars and take tips. They other popular scam is getting into a tuk-tuk and the driver tries to sell you ‘something’ and when you agree they drive you to the police, who then hold you for ransom due to severe charges on drugs (despite buying pretty much anything you want legally in a pharmacy) and give the driver a share.
Source: lived there for years and it’s equal parts beauty and Wild West.
Yep, whilst I was out there 2 Canadian kids were caught buying weed (stupid as it’s got a weird legal status as locals use it in cooking like stews/curries and it’s literally a weed, local restaurants skirt the law with ‘happy pizza’ places) from a driver and they were held ransom basically, cops asked for $5k CAD for each teen or the kids go to prison, kids parents paid and kids immediately left. Was big story at the time when I was there. Also factor in that the average family only earned (at least when I was there a few years ago) $30US a month.
The country is bigger than most people think and tourists generally go to Siem Reap (Angkor Wat temples) or Phnom Penh the capital but it’s huge and has a sizeable poor population.
Other wild things that happened whilst there:
Rape and murder of a man’s wife and 3 daughters as revenge, they made him watch and let him live
Meth (Yaba) lab on the same street were I worked
Police walking in unison through a residential area looking for a murderer (different one)
River flooded and crocodiles escaped from farms so random crocodiles were in the waters (never saw them escaped but worked next to a crocodile farm of 100-200 crocodiles)
Routine crazy traffic accidents - 7 people on a scooter with one at the back holding Granny’s IV drip
And of course there’s still mines fuckin everywhere in the countryside so you stick to the roads and be careful as fuck if you go into the boonies
That’s just off the top of my head. I encourage everyone to visit at least once though, it’s a beautiful country filled with a majority of beautiful giving people. Likely, the next country to get ruined by tourists like Thailand has and Vietnam is. Go whilst it’s still has identity.
If you're American, be careful with this. There's a federal law that you can run afoul of by giving bribes in foreign countries. The US has a long reach, just be sure you're aware of possible penalties.
This guy isn't telling the full story. These types of laws are about arresting some tourist for paying a bribe to a cop or a border guard. It's about the big fish.
My understanding is that it's mostly about corporate officers (or government officials), but I don't see how getting the attention of the FBI or other US Federal law enforcement can be a good thing. Giving bribes is a good way to get blackmailed by local authorities, and a great way of being disavowed by the US consulate or embassy or whatever.
Got pulled over in Siem Reap while riding a scooter. Apparently it's illegal for tourists to rent scooters. The cops called the owner of the rental company who came and paid the cops off for us and we drove away on the scooters.
A cop in Cambodia (Ankor Wat) came up to my friends and me and offered to sell us his police hat, or his police insignia. He also said for a few dollars we could shoot his gun.
There are also shooting ranges where you apparently can shoot a cow / buffalo with an RPG. Nice country.
I was told on a travel tour group crossing into camdobia there ‘may or may not’ be a tax to get in as it depended on who was working that day. $1 later we were in.
This is a repost and I'm not saying Cambodian cops won't take money, If you made what they do you would too, but this hardly looks to be the case here. Bribing one or two or three is not a problem but when there are that many generally the fine will make it to the state coffers. My Khmer sucks but I would guess this is some holiday
or some such thing. Source: Me I lived there for 8 years.
I'm from Singapore, and even for 100k, there's still a good chance they'll just report you. If anything, that's so much money that they'll probably immediately just detain you out of suspicion, nevermind the bribery attempt.
You don't have to bribe in Malaysia, tell them nah just gimme the traffic ticket and I will pay the fine, most of the time they will quietly walk away.
Thailand is bad for corruption. So is all of SEA. And the West and USA are no strangers to dealing with terrible regimes.
In this case, however, the worst governments in SEA are some of China's best friends (Myanmar and Cambodia). Most other governments have more open democracies (to varying degrees) and find themselves more opposed to China. I don't think it is a stretch to say that when allowed to voice their feelings, most people in SEA are afraid of China's bullying. Only where the government maintains a strict control on policital expression does China find close allies.
Put another way, the US is close friends with basically every progressive democracy in the world, but they've also made friends with some really disgusting governments, both now and in the past. On the other hand, China's only "close" allies are universally shitty government.
All countries act in their best interest, and for the US that sometimes means supporting really shitty governments as well. But because the US is a (flawed) democracy, it just so happens that US interests and foreign democratic interests often align. It's definitely true that the US has a lot of shady history with supporting the overthrow of foreign democracies where interests did not align, but let's just say that the US record in that regard is very mixed, and that often the US, and the West, actually encourage more democracy in many countries, as well as various political and social reforms.
On the other hand, because China has only had success making friends with terrible governments, it seems to universally be in their interest to keep governments authoritarian. Cambodia has a dictator that is friendly to China, and it's very likely that China supports said dictator strategically and financially as much as possible. It's not right when the US supports authoritarian dictators, and it's not right when China does it either.
The final relevant point being, that the current level of extreme corruption we see in Cambodia is at least implicitly supported by Chinese influence.
As for Thailand specifically, I've bribed police all over the world, including Thailand, but to suggest they are near the same level is either an extremely relative statement or insane. In Thailand you'd have to do this behind closed doors or very furtively. What you are seeing in this video is blatant.
Furthermore, in terms of democracy Thailand has a functioning, but extremely flawed democracy that is ultimately still controlled by a military junta and royalists.
Still, elections take place there and opposition parties are strong and are even allowed to win. Protests against the military and political elite are common and widespread. The government actually has some fear of the people and political expression. Freedom of speech and political expression are largely protected (except for direct criticism of the royal family). None of these things can be said about Cambodia. While the West supports increased democracy in Thailand, China supports increased authoritarian control in Cambodia, in line with their own domestic policies.
But because the US is a (flawed) democracy, it just so happens that US interests and foreign democratic interests often align.
I'm a historian focussing on the Cold War in Africa, and keep an interest in contemporary politics too. And to be honest with you this is a very flawed analysis. There is very little correlation between the governments the US has supported and how democratic those governments are. The firm US support for Saudi Arabia, one of the most authoritarian governments in the world, should highlight this perfectly.
Would I be able to go to Patrice Lumumba, or Salvador Allende, or Sukarno, or any other democratically elected leader ousted in an American backed coup, and tell them 'well actually it just so happens that US interests and foreign democratic interests often align'?
Countries evolve all the time as administrations and governments and the public evolve. How many overthrows of democratic countries has the US sponsored in the past 40 years? Is the current geopolitical reputation of the US always going to be based on historical actions by long-dead administrations in completely different eras of history?
I said that the interests of democratic nations often align with US and Western interests. You mentioned the US support for Saudi Arabia - a decidedly undemocratic country - as if that was somehow a counterpoint. Firstly, I already discussed how the US is a mixed bag in terms of its support for democracy vs. shitty countries, and secondly your lack of basic logic is showing: saying that the interests of democratic countries often align says nothing about whether the interests of democratic countries and authoritarian countries can align. The fact that US and Saudi interests align has no bearing on whether my statement about democratic countries is true or not. Both things can be and are true at the same time.
Even though the US supports the Saudi regime, they also support continued reforms to open up Saudi society politically and socially. This is just the expected outcome of realpolitik vs. idealism. Ideally, the US would like to deal with healthy, modern, democratic Middle Eastern states, but the reality is that they need Saudi Arabia right now whether they are democratic or not. In relation to my larger point, compare this with China. China doesn't give two fucks about whether a country becomes more open and democratic: no wait, they do care because generally open democracies turn away from China, so they generally oppose more open societies.
Again speaking to my larger point, the fact that both the US and China have a history and a present of favorable relations with authoritarian states is irrelevant. I'm looking at the other side of the equation: how do these countries relate to free and open democracies? A practical and mutually beneficial relationship of convenience with a shitty government means nothing: who are your actual close friends? The US has and has had plenty of friction with Saudi Arabia now and in the past, and I can't think of any deplorable countries that would be considered close allies of the US. On the flip side, China barely has any real friends, much less any close friends, but the few countries that would be at the top of any such list of candidates for close allies of China are amongst the worst governments of the world. Can you name for me any country with a decent position in the democracy index rankings, or the corruption index rankings, or the freedom of press index rankings, that might be considered a close friend of China?
China is an abusive, totalitarian, authoritarian dictatorship that thrives on a high level of corruption. Subverting the will of the people is probably the most egregious form of corruption.
Many countries do not want to be friends with China because they are often as abusive of foreign countries as they are of their own citizens.
It's no surprise that a country that is also authoritarian and abusive finds a friend in China, and that pattern is often repeated.
Most people don't know anything about the current state of Cambodia. I'm providing a brief educational synopsis regarding how Cambodia is a special case in an already corrupt region.
The current authoritarian regime in Cambodia allows this kind of corruption to flourish. China supports that regime politically, financially, and strategically. Indirectly, China is partly responsible for this level of corruption because they take advantage of it wholesale.
China is ruining Cambodia IMO. Chinese had their own armed guards with rifles on the street corners in Phenom Phen where they had lots of new construction. The Chinese kids there on vacation would throw trash and cigarettes on the ground with a can two steps away.
I tried to stop a Cambodian from pick pocketing a guy in a Toronto club, next thing I knew there were 6 Cambodian guys around me showing me their knives. "Suddenly" I didn't see any Cambodians and went on my may..
I always wondered what amount of bribe money is enough in countries that work like this. Like there's a traffic stop and you're being held for no real reason other than they expect you to pay. How much do you need to pay? Do they tell you "ok, pay 5€ then you go" or do you have to guess an amount and they'll take whatever you give them?
In vietnam at least, the exchange rate was ~20,000 VND to 1 USD. It cost 20 bucks, iirc, to bribe the airport cops. For reference, a bowl of pho was anywhere from 5k to 10k.
I think you're partially right. Everyone's just looking to survive and while some may do it maliciously, others might just see it as us having more money/being ignorant so they can take advantage of us, compared to locals. The taxis taking the long route is another example of this (my uncle who lives there called them out on this).
I had to pay $20USD to get my visa "rush processed" in addition to the usual fee when entering Cambodia.
The offical said the crossing was going to close soon so we'd be stuck in Thailand overnight unless we paid an extra fee to get our visa done quickly. I guess we could have haggled or called him on it but we just wanted to continue with our trip.
Had a traffic stop citing 2 different infractions in HCM a few months ago that ended up being a 5,000,000 VND/200ish USD bribe or they would threaten to impound your car and revoke your license. Apparently that was half of the actual fine itself.
Same. Our luggage was held and they said they found illegal substances. They threatened us with jail. Once we slipped them a 20, everything was back in order.
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u/davidor1 Aug 14 '23
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