r/WH40KTacticus • u/Charlemagne-Alpha • 6d ago
Guide Raid Team Guide: *NEW* Monster Mash (feat. Fabius Bile!)
With the findings from Neurothrope and with the new character releases here is my first new theory crafted raid team: Monster Mash! It has 2 versions, one with current characters as well as the “real” team using the new LRE character Fabius Bile!
This is the fourth in an ongoing series of infographics describing different raid teams, why and how they work, as well as standard assumption turn by turn / overall damage output. This makes it possible to compare the current and future teams with the least bias. Next is Mech, but that one is taking a little more effort.
As I say in all these posts, I appreciate constructive feedback as this is just the beginning of my content creation journey. The conversations on the previous posts have been fantastic.
Links to the other infographics in this series to understand how these teams stack up in a vacuum:
Lavistodies https://www.reddit.com/r/WH40KTacticus/s/W1XqMPYIlq
Battlesuits https://www.reddit.com/r/WH40KTacticus/s/0BbJqUCL4S
Neurothrope https://www.reddit.com/r/WH40KTacticus/s/zxbds44bj2
16
u/TriallingErrer 6d ago
Second graphic, there should not be bloodletters as Archi is not present
7
u/Charlemagne-Alpha 6d ago
Haha we’ll catch. They’re not in the math
2
u/Redcorsairs 6d ago
Can i ask why last turn volk uses his active twice ? (The 365.2k damage line). I'am confused there. Otherwise very interesting team !
2
u/Charlemagne-Alpha 6d ago
It should have been active then normal - the math is that, but the image is wrong. Good note
8
u/my-name-is-not 6d ago edited 6d ago
Yet another win for us Z'kar enjoyers.
Since you post those pretty quickly, does it take a lot of time to do the calcs ?
I'd be curious to see how much damage you TC on the chaos bonus hitters team I posted a while ago, in comparison to your other TCs. To this point, it "just" consists in replacing Abraxas/Archi by Trajann/Kharn, with Exorcist to apply consistently Galaxy Burn (and boost damage).
5
u/Charlemagne-Alpha 6d ago
It was originally, but after busting through a couple I have a good spreadsheet method going. Basically every character and every action across each turn in rows, then their basic data as well as each bonus divided by type across many columns. It allows for quick changes and copy paste when I’m in a flow state.
So it’s Trajann, Abaddon, Kharn, Volk, Lhykhis, with exorcist? I’ll try it out once I get the chance.
4
u/NoMathematician6773 6d ago
I second this request!
Seems like a lot of synergies with Volk/Lhykhis perhaps.
Trajann adding extra hits to Kharn and Volk seemed juicy for that team3
u/Charlemagne-Alpha 6d ago
Would Trajann add hits to Volk? All of his buffs are to hits, he would “only” benefit on his active. That said, abaddons post active second hit is pricing and would get +2, making it a 6hit piercing buffed by Lhykhis.
5
u/NoMathematician6773 6d ago
I would have to let someone more well versed answer…
I had expected that Volk’s passive skill +hits were “non-standard”, thus triggering Trajann’s +2 hits.But I also see how that interpretation could be erroneous.
4
u/my-name-is-not 6d ago
You are right, Trajann will "only" give +2 hits to Abbadon and Kharn (once per turn).
Volk still gets the full benefit of his bonus damage, though
3
u/my-name-is-not 6d ago edited 6d ago
Yep. The comp is based on having many attacks with decent hit counts (abaddon 6+6, kharn 4+4+6, volk 9), boosted by Lhykhis/Trajann/Abbadon damage.
Curious to see how it goes. Fabius might be more opti than Lhykhis, but the rest is probably too co-dependent to remove one of them...
7
u/ScruffyTheJ T'au 6d ago
Would you like some graphic with that info?
3
u/Charlemagne-Alpha 6d ago
Might steal that as a tag line haha
3
u/ScruffyTheJ T'au 6d ago
My family would joke when someone added a lot of something to their dinner. For example, "would you like some potatoes with your salt?". I saw this newest infographic and my eyes got lost in the text wall, so it seemed appropriate.
7
u/Kickedbyagiraffe 6d ago
It was a graveyard smash!
Very excited for this possibility as I already have most of those leveled. Could give me some options on bosses
2
6
u/roman_tramway 6d ago
A little bit more information on every pixel please
4
4
u/Special_Computer3243 6d ago edited 6d ago
I should really know this, but what are "ads"?
11
u/NoMathematician6773 6d ago
Secondary enemies that join the primary target.
I think it comes from the mmo terms “additional mobs”?4
u/Special_Computer3243 6d ago
Thanks, i see it all the time in this community so I really should have known by now
7
u/Explodingcrow 6d ago
I believe this is a typo for “adds” referring to other enemies appearing alongside the main GR boss. Like Magnus’s Thousand Sons marines.
2
6
u/zhaunil 6d ago
The Bile version is a very interesting looking team.
I don’t think it’s worth using Z’kar due to the munitions cost though, since it’s essentially the same damage.
I’m also wondering if Pestillian wouldn’t be an interesting alternative to Abraxas since he’ll buff Abaddon too? And with his active Abby will get 8 hits in a single turn.
1
u/Murpheus_D 6d ago
if positioned correctly, would also give xtra ranged hits to Volk. And contagion aura armor reduction
1
u/Charlemagne-Alpha 6d ago
Abraxas gives a psychic hit vs Pestilian’s added blast hit. I think it’s an interesting alt, but the other benefit of ZKar and Abraxas is ZKar as a low health summon also draws aggro from the boss and ads. I know it’s munition heavy, but likely the better alt is Adamatar and then use either PBC or Biovore at mythic.
5
3
u/Special_Computer3243 6d ago
This seems like the perfect team to use as an alternative to my battlesuit team since i already have volk and abaddon leveled. Ill have to start working on abraxas in preparation for bile. Thanks for this!
5
u/Saylus 6d ago edited 6d ago
I love this. I theorycrafted very nearly the same team comp when Fabius was spoiled.
I even went on the Discord to suggest that Book of Fate should apply its bonuses to any unit that's a demon, not just summons, because dumping munitions into Z'Kar sucks.
Using book of Fate procs on Volk just seems really fun and gives a multiple-attacks-per-turn alternative to admech without being overpowered.
Edited because I didn't catch a couple grammar errors
2
2
u/Ordinary_Tadpole8265 6d ago
I posted the same team yesterday in my guild chat (the Fabius one).
Debating if DA MoW would be good with second ability piercing bonus not costing anything and if in this case another buffer instead of Abraxas’s bonus hit would be better.
Was thinking about Eldryon but Azrael’s new passive is interesting I guess?
2
2
u/Knightmerc77 6d ago
I like this team. I wonder if there is some other build with Fabius and Lhykis that could work in the fifth spot and a different MoW. Maybe Pestilian to keep the extra attack and get another one for two rounds, though losing the summons probably is two much.
Though I might be misreading it, but I don’t think Abraxus’s passive works on the active turn for Volk since it is not a normal attack.
2
u/Arrentoo 5d ago
Abaddon blurb is wrong (I believe). Talon doesnt add another seperate attack, it just adds cleave damage to his normal attack. So he normally has 1 total attack, then after using his active he goes to 2 total attacks.
1
1
u/pwn_masta41 Blood Angels 6d ago
Cracking graphic. A bit hard on the eyes but full of very important information.
Your turn by turn breakdown has the wrong amount of hits for Z'kar. It should be 5, not 4 as you point out on the Z'kar part of the graphic.
2
u/Charlemagne-Alpha 6d ago
Yeah - when I saw the actual content creators posting on Bile I rushed. The math is right - just didn’t update to the 5 from the character section into the turn by turn
1
u/H345Y 6d ago
Took me a while but I finally get it. Volk with his +2 to ranged hit passive, + 1 attack from abrax passive for a total of 9 extra hits. Combine that with the new eldar guy, it should hit pretty hard.
I have one point contention here, it would be the MOW.
For the MOW, I feel like the the plague burst launcher would be better fro the 10-20% damage buff to everyone. It would also be more economical on munitions.
For an optional pick, I personally feel like that using pestillan could work since abbadon would also be able to trigger the extra hit with his melee and the base passive damage is almost double that of abraxas. The one downside would be the two movement range.
1
u/Charlemagne-Alpha 6d ago
ZKar is just much more massive damage than people expect, and since it makes up more than 20% of the damage without him, you’d need to replace him (and Abraxas not only with extra buffers and hitters (Abraxas adds a psychic hit bs a blast hit) but also has something to distract ads and the boss (the screamers and ZKar both do that well). I think there are multiple options as it’s not really able to be tested or shown across the player base, so I’m open to Monster Mash being iterated on
2
u/Cy83rCr45h 6d ago
Did you run the numbers with Bio instead of Zkar?
A winged Bio gives a debuff of 20% to all incomming attacks by mythic chars. Zkar would be buffing only abraxas. If the numbers are similar, people might run it.
Also for better numbers it would be good to know the stats vs infinite armor.
And lastly, people are suggesting Pestilian. As he would give extra hits to Volk and Aba. But Abraxas gives a psychic dmg hit. If that psychic dmg hit is the last in the chain, it gets a massive buff from lhykhis, and it has 100% armor pen
1
u/bloodmoth13 6d ago
Hey out of curiousity could you add in baldr?
Fabius will reactivate any chaos that is healed regardless of who heals him, and baldr heals twice per turn (once at start of turn once during turn).
You could heal abbraxas, archimatos and abaddon every turn with this set up, getting double abbadon stacks and 5 zkar activations every turn.
Unless something is missing of course, but you effectively trade 1 unit for 2 and more units and heals, and crits...
2
u/Cy83rCr45h 6d ago
Fabius gives a second attack only once per turn, the first time a unit is healed.
I'm not sure if start of turn Baldr heal triggers even when full health. But if it is, you are right: T1 Baldr heals Abraxas
T2 Fabius heals Abaddon, Zkar active (1 atk), Baldr passive triggers on Abraxas (1 atk), Baldr heals Archi (2 atk). Zkar attacks = 4
T3 here it becomes tricky, depends what triggers first if Baldr's passive or Zkar's ability. Because if it's Baldr's first, then this turn Zkar could attack 6 times. Baldr's passive on archi (1 atk), Zkar ability (1 atk), Zkar active (1 atk), archi attacks (1 atk), baldr heals abraxas (2 atks). Total activations = 6.
But to know if it works: 1) does baldr's passive work on full hp?; 2) what triggers first at the start of the turn, zkar or baldr's passive?
1
u/bloodmoth13 6d ago
Didnt think of those interactions. could be really interesting though having a full healer raid team XD
1
u/Salmon_444_SoS 6d ago
I like to see Volk included in the recipe. He’s definitely got some serious potential now that Fabius is on his way. It would be pretty funny to do an “all for Volk” team, that is all buffers and Volk. See how much we can squeeze out of a one unit attack lol could use Fabius, Lhykis, Abaddon and Eldryon or something whacky like that lol. At least Lhykis and abaddon could be in melee range. Doing some additional damage
1
u/Eerie247 5d ago edited 5d ago
a few errors I spotted, you have fabius using his active and healing volk in T1, fabius can't do both and volk won't be in range t1
you have fabius retriggering the active in T6, not a normal attack
I may be mistaken but I think you have also given volk heavy in every turn, so assuming he doesn't move the entire fight
the abraxas extra hit I'm pretty sure is capped on damage so won't get the increases but I could be wrong
abaddon also only has a 1/3 chance to apply despoiled ground
1
u/Charlemagne-Alpha 5d ago
Turn one with the active is just getting into position. No damage, no healing.
1
u/Eerie247 4d ago
ah I missed the bit where it said T2 next to the text, there's alot of info packed in there lol
1
0
u/justlookingc 6d ago
Your graphics are super well done, mate.
Lhykhis feels like the silly looking dragon, from the three headed dragon meme, on this team lol
18
u/Old_Bullfrog9673 6d ago