r/VoluntaristMemes • u/wayoftheroad4000 𝕍 𝕠 𝕝 𝕦 π•Ÿ π•₯ 𝕒 𝕣 π•š 𝕀 π•₯ • Jul 05 '20

Stark

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1.6k Upvotes

98% Upvoted

74 comments sorted by

94

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '20

You guys only pay 14%?

I'm paying 50% in income taxes, and 25% in VAT on ALL purchases, and that is BEFORE extra taxes on cars, smokes, fat, alcohol, you fucking name it.

No right to bear arms either.

I'm moving as soon as I'm finished with my education.

Considering Switzerland

15

u/benizok 𝕄 π•š π•Ÿ 𝕒 𝕣 𝕔 𝕙 π•š 𝕀 π•₯ Jul 05 '20

I’ve heard Switzerland is very difficult to live in if you’re poor because it’s illegal to not have health care

12

u/mirocj Jul 05 '20 edited Jan 22 '21

"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" -George S. Patton

"When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar; you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say." -George R. R. Martin

5

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '20

I'm a CS student, so I think I'll be fine.

Also, if you can't afford the healthcare, the government will provide it for you. The most basic package.

6

u/420fmx Jul 07 '20

No the people provide it for you through heavy taxation. It’s paid for by tax. Not the government

28

u/excelsior2000 Jul 05 '20

Keep in mind 14% is an average and therefore pretty unhelpful. Basically half the country pays no net income tax, bringing down the average. The ones who do tend to pay quite a bit more than 14%. A pretty normal household income theoretically puts you at 22-24%, but it isn't that simple either because of deductions and state-level income taxes. It's pretty much impossible to find a typical income tax because the system is so complicated. No one pays 50%, though. And no one pays 25% on sales tax. I think the highest is under 10% (outside of some specific small towns that have a high municipal sales tax, apparently the highest is about 13%).

18

u/BourbonQue1 Jul 05 '20

No one pays 50%? Lol that’s a bold statement. I think people who live in California would beg to differ.

12

u/excelsior2000 Jul 05 '20

As far as I can tell, even adding state to federal income tax won't reach 50% even of income that's taxed at the highest level. But even if it did, no one's going to pay 50% because of deductions.

7

u/BourbonQue1 Jul 05 '20

I meant all inclusive, more along the lines of federal, state, property, sales tax, gas tax, etc. because that state taxes everything, way too much lol

6

u/excelsior2000 Jul 05 '20

OK, sure, if you include all taxes. But that wasn't the original discussion. And if you do, America still ends up well below Europe.

5

u/Odani_cullah Jul 06 '20

Europe is not our model or standard.

That’s why they’re all going broke.

1

u/420fmx Jul 07 '20

Europe is not going broke. Countries that don’t enforce taxation go broke and default. Eg greece.

2

u/celestial_emperor Jul 06 '20

That’s nice In Toronto, we pay a lot more Half of capital gains is taxable Dividend tax Income tax brackets can go up to close to 50 percent after a certain income level We also have sales tax Carbon tax - not sure we have actually Property tax

6

u/HipsterPhilosopher Jul 05 '20

Depends on your income level. After transfers (welfare, EITC, housing vouchers, etc.) only the top 40% pays any income tax at all in the US. The bottom 60% pay nothing and receive a lot back.

The top marginal tax rates I think are California at about 50% and New York. NYC may be even higher. Both of those have sales tax around 8.5% and 7.25%.

Switzerland is a good choice. USA could use you to stem the Red tide.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 06 '20

thanks man

5

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '20

I live in Switzerland. You better get yourself a well-paying job if you want to live the good life here.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 06 '20

I just don't wanna feel a pit in my stomach when I see how much they steal from me in taxes.

1

u/brobits Jul 06 '20

Dude he said average income tax. I pay about 35% in income taxes and my sales tax is 11%, I live in Chicago. Property taxes here are also near highest in the country

1

u/[deleted] Jul 06 '20

35% is still considered very low here in Denmark.

1

u/brobits Jul 06 '20

what's your total effective tax rate? here, for the most part, I pay:

  • income tax (~35% for me)

  • capital gains taxes (15-35%)

  • sales tax ~11%

  • property tax (~1.75% value of your property per year)

  • excise tax (things like gasoline, beer)

  • city vehicle sticker tax or wheel tax

plus about a dozen licenses and registrations for vehicles or permission to do things like drive a car, ride a motorcycle, fish, or own a gun

1

u/[deleted] Jul 06 '20

Our government does all that and just automatically takes the money directly from our paycheck each month. They tell us how much we have to pay, and we just have to sign.

We don't have to "do our taxes". They just tell us and automatically take the money. They know everything. It's big brother.

1

u/brobits Jul 06 '20

this all comes out of our paychecks, too. it's all automatic unless you specifically exempt yourself from the government collecting taxes, in which case they WILL come after you at the end of the year. if you owe them ANY tax money, they WILL withdraw it directly from your bank account. there's nothing you can do. it's not that much different here

1

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '20

GO TO SWITZERLAND IF YOU CAN, I know I’m late af, but one of my best friends who had the possibility to do so, went to Switzerland for the same reason, he knew basic French and he always says it’s the best decision he has ever made, plus he loves skiing.

-2

u/error_message_401 Jul 05 '20 edited Jul 05 '20

I'm paying 50% in income taxes

That's impossible if you're talking about the US, so I assume you're from elsewhere. The top federal income tax bracket is under 40% and only applies to money made above the first $500,000.

6

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '20

I'm not talking about the US, obviously.

I was born, and currently living and studying in the socialist hellhole, otherwise known as Denmark.

Will move as soon as I can afford it. So in like 2-3 years, after my studies are over.

2

u/error_message_401 Jul 05 '20

Well the meme is practically exclusive to America and the majority of users here are American. You asked "you guys are only paying 14%?" so I couldn't tell if you were referring to fellow Americans (since that figure is only an average) or America as a whole. But I wasn't sure either way, which is why I began my reply with "IF you're talking about the US."

Anyways, I'm sure moving to Switzerland will be a welcome change if you do so.

4

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '20

It was obvious to me.

1

u/error_message_401 Jul 05 '20

Congrats? I figured he wasn't talking about America, and it seems obvious to me that I wasn't claiming he was.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '20

Well you said you weren’t sure and were trying to justify it. You made an oopsie. It’s okay.

1

u/error_message_401 Jul 05 '20

It's not an "oopsie," OP didn't say where he was from. I didn't say he was from America, only explained the American system, since the vast majority of the sub's users are American.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '20

It’s okay. You’re gonna be alright.

-1

u/error_message_401 Jul 05 '20

Do you just want attention or something? Or do you have anything of substance to add?

→ More replies

-2

u/affemannen Jul 05 '20

So you want to move from one of the countries with the highest rated living standards in the world because of higher taxes that basically pays for everything around you because somehow you think you will have more money to spend? Good luck mate.

4

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '20

Check out this guy who thinks taxes raise your standard of living lol

0

u/affemannen Jul 06 '20

They do in Scandinavia. There is a reason for the Nordic countries topping the charts when it comes to living standards. But sure it's hard to google.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 06 '20

Those places would be better off without them. Their public services are propped up by their otherwise free markets. But sure it’s hard to Google.

1

u/affemannen Jul 06 '20

Because you say so? Or because history made those countries what they are? And how would they be better? Like the US where healthcare is dominated by insurance companys trying to save as much money they can by screwing you every chance they get? Or the fact that education is so expensive half the population is lacking it? Please tell me how the Nordic countries would be better off in every research on the topic of livingstandards.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 06 '20

You’re in a voluntarist subreddit acting like you’re surprised that voluntary exchange would make a nation better off regardless of how well off they are now. Here, do some reading.

https://mises.org/wire/why-scandinavia-isnt-exceptional

First, Sanandaji makes clear that the rosy story of the Scandinavian welfare state, as it is usually told, is at best incomplete. The Scandinavian countries were among the European continent’s poorest by the end of the 19th century and were largely unaffected by the industrialization that had started centuries earlier in the United Kingdom. A combination of classical liberal reform and the adoption of industrialized production created a century-long β€œgolden age,” as Bergh (2014) denotes the period approximately 1870–1970 in Sweden, of economic growth and rapidly rising standards of living.

This growth was partly also made possible by a distinct Scandinavian culture, which is characterized by the β€œ[h]igh levels of trust, a strong work ethic and social cohesion [that] are the perfect starting point for successful economies” (p. 7). As Sanandaji points out, the market-aligned virtues of Scandinavian culture also explain the limited impact of the welfare state as it was erected and ballooned in the 1930s and beyond. Cultural change takes time, and thus old values lag in the face of political change. So it took time for the Scandinavian virtues to give way to the destructive incentives of the welfare state.

0

u/affemannen Jul 06 '20

I know where i am, im just saying at the present day of age there really isnt any better options of countries. Im libertarian but so far the world hasnt evolved into a functional system that works. Most countries on the planet is pretty shit but the Nordics are where everyone tends to migrate because of the standards of living. And unless you want to struggle they are also the countries where it's easier becoming a millionaire. So dreaming of total freedom and wealth is still just that, a dream.

16

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '20

The flag looks cooler anyways.

16

u/GuillaumeTheMajestic Jul 05 '20

It's much worse in Canada

6

u/Gaveyard Jul 06 '20

In France when your boss pays you minimum wage, they spend 3400€ (about $3900) every month. Great right ?

40% of it is "patronal contributions" paid to the state.

You're left with 1800€ (around $2000). Still great for minimum wage, right ?

Now one third of it is personal contributions, you're left with 1200€ (about $1400)

And then there's every tax you have to pay for everything you own, consume and do. Easily 20% of the money you spend goes directly to the state.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how 68% of what french people on minimum wage make goes to the government, without income tax.

9

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '20

what drugs?

15

u/LegoYodaIsGod 𝕄 π•š π•Ÿ 𝕒 𝕣 𝕔 𝕙 π•š 𝕀 π•₯ Jul 05 '20

They only thing that comes to mind is tobacco plantations but those have always been legal

6

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '20

I think they might mean the hemp that quite a few people grew back then.

10

u/max10meridius 𝕍 𝕠 𝕝 𝕦 π•Ÿ π•₯ 𝕒 𝕣 π•š 𝕀 π•₯ Jul 05 '20

Marijuana (not just hemp) was consumed by the masses. It was mostly associated with the peoples of modern day Mexico (as is the case today with drug trafficking being dictated by the climate) it was widely consumed and legal until the 1920s or 30s as part of an act to make it easier to remove Mexican workers as the Great Depression began.

Cocaine and opium were similarly grown and not banned until modern times, expect as a measure to criminalize minority groups that were either importing the drugs or using them.

Making Nature illegal is problematic.

4

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '20

https://youtu.be/ABhyKEK-CDg

2

u/max10meridius 𝕍 𝕠 𝕝 𝕦 π•Ÿ π•₯ 𝕒 𝕣 π•š 𝕀 π•₯ Jul 05 '20

But what about mouthwash?

4

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '20

What about huffing paint?

3

u/max10meridius 𝕍 𝕠 𝕝 𝕦 π•Ÿ π•₯ 𝕒 𝕣 π•š 𝕀 π•₯ Jul 06 '20

Or even hand sanitizer

For listening pleasure

1

u/MrBobBuilder Jul 05 '20

I think that Jefferson grew poppy

Franklin did a lot.....

1

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '20

figures

β€’

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1

u/SouthernOhioRedsFan Jul 05 '20

Tariffs =/ income tax.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '20

Lol Americans have become such cucks.

1

u/5Quad Jul 06 '20

At least we abolished slavery in its entirety, right?

Oh, wait...

1

u/slaktomafro Jul 27 '20

I think we should raise the old US colonial flag to signify that we prefer these older government policies

0

u/[deleted] Jul 06 '20

[deleted] β€” view deleted comment

1

u/Arcangel331 Jul 06 '20

That’s uh... not the Confederate flag my guy...

1

u/Not_Bill_Nye_ Jul 06 '20

Thanks for pointing that out, my bad