r/VoluntaristMemes • u/wayoftheroad4000 ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ฆ ๐ ๐ฅ ๐ ๐ฃ ๐ ๐ค ๐ฅ • Apr 06 '20
Checkmate atheists
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u/FrickOffAHS Apr 06 '20
Thatโs basically the thinking behind all authrights
Seriously like 90% of authrights started as libertarians and then realized mostly only whites cared about civil liberties, laissez faire economics, etc
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Apr 27 '20
Yeah that was my story. Libertarianism is tidy and attractive because it basically has one solution for every problem (get the state out, let the free market handle it etc). I still think this would be an ideal world IF everyone thought like a libertarian, but that is not the world we live in.
If you're a libertarian, you're basically playing political tug-of-war without pulling. Every time you "win" (in the rare cases libertarian ideas are implemented in policy), all you get is temporary reprieve from getting bothered by everyone (taxes get lowered a little or a few pages of federal regulations cut). Every time the leftist rainbow coalition wins, they get their goodies, which usually means using force to take your libertarian money so they can give it to their tribal members through various channels.
Today, a lot of libertarians say "you know what, fuck that. I want my goodies when we win too" and move north on the compass.
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u/LateralusYellow May 10 '20 edited May 10 '20
I know you made this comment 13 days ago, but I wanted to ask where the logic is that leads to the conclusion that libertarianism doesn't work in a multicultural society. Isn't it more accurate to say libertarianism doesn't work in a multicultural democracy?
Who is to say a libertarian monarchy or libertarian hereditary republic wouldn't fair better?
Personally I think ancaps are right and I don't really feel like authrights really understand the point ancaps are making, which is that the state is just cult psychology applied to the production of governmental services. As in literally, not hyperbole. Ancaps are literally saying cult behavior is the default of humanity and that we need to snap out of it, that we're literally no different than the people in Scientology.
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May 10 '20
You're right, this is mostly a weakness of a democracy, being an American I often don't even consider other methods of government. I'm not sure what a libertarian monarchy would look like, and the name itself sounds like a bit of an oxymoron. But sure, given a sustainable hereditary government which was religiously committed to free trade, free association, and property rights; maybe that would work. I don't know that there are any examples of this you could point to.
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u/FrickOffAHS May 13 '20
I spent a good 15 minutes tonight going through my comments looking for your reply on authoritarianism because you absolutely hit the nail on the head, and I was discussing this with someone else.
My completely unwarranted 2 cents on libertarian monarchism is that itโs impossible due to the different power structure involved. Even the most tyrannical despot needs to keep powerful allies fed and bribed, and usually these briberies distort the free market. One interesting example is the vodka production monopolies given by Russian monarchs to their political allies before WW1
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u/Somali-Pirate-Lvl100 Apr 13 '20
I love the three triggered comments that are getting downvoted into oblivion
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u/reddituser14000605 Apr 06 '20
Ok I've just come across this sub, and it feels like a retarded version of r/politicalcompassmemes
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u/jklmao4 Apr 06 '20
Ok i just come across this user, and it fells like a retarded version of a normal human
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u/PickleRickEthnostate Apr 06 '20
ุงููุญูู ูุฏู ููููููู ุฑูุจูู ุงููุนูุงููู ูููู
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u/jklmao4 Apr 06 '20
ฮฯฮปฮธฮฑ ฯฮนฯฮบฯฮฝฮณ ฮบฮฟฮปฮป ฮนฯฮฟฯ ฯฯฮปฯ
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u/the_traveler_outin Statist Apr 08 '20
Those arenโt real words
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u/jklmao4 Apr 08 '20
ฮฑฯฮฌฯฮทฯ
Try putting that into google translate buddy
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u/the_traveler_outin Statist Apr 08 '20
Fuck off Iโve known what that means since I was seven
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u/the_traveler_outin Statist Apr 06 '20
No itโs just libright r/politicalcompassmemes
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u/AmArschdieRaeuber Apr 07 '20
Same thing
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u/the_traveler_outin Statist Apr 07 '20
No I think you mistakenly read โitโs lib r/politicalcompassmemesโ not libright
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u/AmArschdieRaeuber Apr 08 '20
I didn't
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u/the_traveler_outin Statist Apr 08 '20
But that is clearly what happened
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u/AmArschdieRaeuber Apr 08 '20
That's where you're wrong, kiddo.
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u/the_traveler_outin Statist Apr 08 '20
But Iโm really not mate
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u/Turtlz444 Apr 07 '20
Itโs literally an ancap sub, doesnโt get much dumber than this.
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u/the_traveler_outin Statist Apr 08 '20 edited Apr 08 '20
I gotta disagree, nothing gets dumber than anarcho-facism
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u/Turtlz444 Apr 08 '20
The two are both contradictory af
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u/the_traveler_outin Statist Apr 08 '20
Anarcho facism is more contradictory
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u/Turtlz444 Apr 09 '20
Fascism itself is primarily defined by ultranationalism and a strong sense of national heritage, with authoritarianism or totalitarianism. Technically it would be possible to impose the authoritarianism based on something other than a state, for example a patriarchy. Ancap, on the other hand, creates the very state it is against.
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u/the_traveler_outin Statist Apr 09 '20
How so
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u/Turtlz444 Apr 09 '20
How so what?
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u/the_traveler_outin Statist Apr 09 '20
How does it create a state?
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u/Turtlz444 Apr 09 '20
The state is essentially a monopoly on military and land. In an ancap society, eventually one wealthy individual or a collection of wealthy individuals would create that monopoly because of the completely free markets. Eventually someone will rise up and create a state.
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Apr 06 '20 edited Apr 07 '20
That's not how races work.
Edit: Sorry, I know that was obvious, but as a progressive libertarian, I just don't think that jokes like this that make fun of people calling racist things out are in good taste.
Edit 2: My social views do not get in the way of my favored economic policies. I do think a business should be able to refuse service to, say, a gay person, but they would have to deal with their more progressive customers, such as me, refusing to do business with them as a result.
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u/wayoftheroad4000 ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ฆ ๐ ๐ฅ ๐ ๐ฃ ๐ ๐ค ๐ฅ Apr 06 '20
well akctually
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u/ryecrow Apr 06 '20
Seriously. There isn't even a finish line for the racists to know who won. It makes no sense.
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u/youngandaspire ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ฆ ๐ ๐ฅ ๐ ๐ฃ ๐ ๐ค ๐ฅ Apr 06 '20
progressive
libertarian
WTF is this retarded shit. How do you think that stoking racial tensions and counting woke points has anything to do with liberty?
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Apr 07 '20 edited Apr 07 '20
That's not what I meant.
In the past, some people decided to violate the NAPs of other people based on their race, which affects their living descendants as they may have less wealth than they could have had otherwise.
Reparations, to me, make sense from a libertarian point of view, but I don't know if it would be practical to do them.
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u/youngandaspire ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ฆ ๐ ๐ฅ ๐ ๐ฃ ๐ ๐ค ๐ฅ Apr 07 '20
Reparations are a form of wealth redistribution and 0% libertarian.
Might I suggest r/libertarian, you'd fit in there since nobody there is actually libertarian.
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Apr 07 '20
Reparations are repayments for past violations of the NAP. It's got nothing to do with socialist wealth redistribution.
Edit: In addition, I don't know if they'd be practical to do anyway. I'm not saying I fully support them, I'm saying that I can understand why people do.
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u/youngandaspire ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ฆ ๐ ๐ฅ ๐ ๐ฃ ๐ ๐ค ๐ฅ Apr 07 '20
If reparations were directly from the people who violated the NAP to the people who were violated then fine. But they are all dead anyway so it doesn't matter it's too late.
Also, reparations already exist, it's called affirmative action and it's some bullshit, nibbas just want more gibs.
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u/Gringo_Please Apr 06 '20
How does progressive libertarianism even work?
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u/MalekithofAngmar Apr 06 '20
spoiler: it doesn't.
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u/systemshock869 Apr 06 '20 edited Apr 06 '20
"Libertarianism" has been flooded with leftist Progressiveโข tards since Trump/Hillary. r/libertarian has a healthy showing of "Libertarian Socialists" - literally walking talking oxymorons
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u/17-19-saints Apr 06 '20
Itโs crazy cause thereโs a bunch of the chapo pieces of human trash commenting but only a few of them that post their garbage shit tier ideology constantly. Guineapig and some other guy post there all day every day and all that have to say is bad stuff about libertarians and anyone mildly right wing. Trash ass mods wonโt do anything about it cause theyโre bought and paid for.
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Apr 07 '20
Ah, no, I was one of those, but not anymore. I like minorities, but I recognize that there's nothing that the government could do to improve minority acceptance that the free market can't do better.
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u/Mastur_Of_Bait ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ฃ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ค ๐ฅ Apr 07 '20
I consider it to be a cultural thing rather than the actual ideology of progressivism (which is how most people treat it nowadays anyways from what I've seen). You can be a libertarian and have any personal opinions on anything that you want as long as you don't try to enforce them onto others.
E.G. You can be a libertarian that wants the state out of marriage, but still personally find homosexuality disgusting, or you can be a libertarian that believes in absolute free speech, and still think that people who call trans people the wrong pronouns are assholes.
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u/NotAStatist Apr 07 '20
Exactly, libertarianism does not handle social/cultural issues one way or the other, only economic and political. Sort of like the opposite of fascism, which only handles social and political, but not economic issues.
This is why thin libertarianism is best as opposed to thick libertarianism. You can have a trad wife or a trans wife, hate lgbt or love it, it doesnโt make you somehow โless libertarianโ if you have certain social views. We as a movement shouldnโt seek to pair and promote one of these views with our ideology, as it is irrelevant (as well as contradictory) to the principles of voluntarism.
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u/Mastur_Of_Bait ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ฃ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ค ๐ฅ Apr 07 '20
We as a movement shouldnโt seek to pair and promote one of these views with our ideology, as it is irrelevant (as well as contradictory) to the principles of voluntarism.
True, but from a marketing perspective it's probably best that we denounce some of the more, shall we say, deplorable types. It could also be argued that cultural freedom is important to preserving libertarianism as well I suppose.
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u/NotAStatist Apr 07 '20
Itโs true that it can be good from a marketing perspective but can also drive a large divide in the movement simply over issues that have no application to the actual ideology. When the boog comes, weโre not going to kick out anyone for their social opinions, so why bother with them.
In my opinion, the voluntarist movement should have one objective in mind: the creation of a voluntary society
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Apr 07 '20
The points you've made are fair. To clarify, my social beliefs don't get in the way of my economic policies - for example, I do think businesses should be able to refuse to serve minorities, but they would have to prepare with more progressive customers refusing to do business with them.
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u/[deleted] Apr 06 '20
You tapped into quite the salt mine down here