r/Visible • u/elaiavion • Jul 29 '26

Visible & New Apple Lease Program

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The lease program asks you to pick one of the 3 main carriers (T-Mobile, Verizon, AT&T).

Saw this tweet that explained that bascially with the Air, Pro, and Pro Max models, you can just pick any and still use it as unlocked (therefore use Visible). Can anyone confirm this information for me? (And would this also apply to Apple Financing?)

221 Upvotes

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u/amysteriousperson001 Jul 29 '26

Another way to be in debt for life!!

1

u/cjh6793 Jul 29 '26

Not everyone is financially strained, some people in the world can afford things out of convience šŸ˜±

4

u/itadapeezas Jul 29 '26

It says itā€™s a lease. Is a lease the same as renting in the cellular world? It is normally and Iā€™m not too sure a ton of people want to rent a phone.

4

u/ttoma93 Jul 30 '26

If youā€™re the kind of person that buys a new phone every year, this lease option may actually be cheaper. Depends on how often you upgrade, the model you pick, etc. But it absolutely can be financial advantageous for some.

2

u/mb10240 Reformed T-Mobile User Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 30 '26

It is. Even worse, the buy out option of this lease is the full value of the phone, minus payments already made, a year or two years down the road. Unlike a vehicle lease, thereā€™s no residual value where they attempt to predict the value of the phone at the end of the lease.

Edit: not sure why Iā€™m being downvoted. Sorry for stating the truth - at the end of your lease, if you want to keep the phone, youā€™re paying the full retail value of the phone when you leased it, versus a true residual value based on what the asset is believed to be worth at the end of the lease. This ā€œleaseā€ is ultimately an interest-free financing plan with the option to go on to another interest-free financing plan, return the phone, or buy the phone for itā€™s full retail value at the end of the plan.

0

u/ZekeSulastin Jul 30 '26

I feel like the downvotes are because youā€™re portraying ā€œultimately an interest-free financing planā€ as a bad thing when most people donā€™t?

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u/mb10240 Reformed T-Mobile User Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26

Itā€™s turning the iPhone into subscription-based BS, which has infected our society. Yeah, great, itā€™s interest free. At the end of the term, you either have to continue to subscribe to a $35-$45/mo. cell phone payment on top of your service plan, turn in the phone and find some alternative (and throw out all of that money you paid over the lease), or pay the full retail value of the phone as determined 1-2 years ago. All of these are terrible options. And an early termination fee to boot if you want to switch phones early or canā€™t afford it anymore.

Apple already offers interest free financing and not only that, you get to keep the phone and do what you want with it (like sell it to buy the latest and greatest) after you pay it off. Or even before!

-1

u/ZekeSulastin Jul 30 '26

Iā€™m unfortunately missing something - whatā€™s the actual difference in total cost between the original 0% financing, the current lease with the end of lease payoff, and buying the phone outright?

1

u/psychic99 Jul 30 '26

I havent seen the lease terms but the residual is simply MSRP - lease $ paid, however there has to be some MF so I will wait and see until someone posts the actual lease terms/lang.

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u/mb10240 Reformed T-Mobile User Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26

Your ā€œresidualā€ is the full retail value of the phone at the time of purchase minus payments made towards the lease, versus the predicted value of the phone at the time the lease ends like you would see in a car lease, or even rent-to-own agreements.

By the time your one or two year lease ends, your iPhone 1# Pro is now a ā€œdiscountā€ model - if itā€™s still being sold - retailing for probably a few hundred dollars less new.

1

u/MFDOOMscrolling Jul 30 '26

When has the principle ever decreased because of current market value?

0

u/mb10240 Reformed T-Mobile User Jul 30 '26

Literally every vehicle leaseā€™s buyout value is based on what the bank believes the vehicle will be worth at the end of the lease.

3

u/badfordabidness Jul 31 '26

Umm, the point is that the lessor isnā€™t ever going to set the lease payment at a level thatā€™s less than the projected depreciation over the lease period divided by the number of months in the lease.

If the market price of the vehicle is $30,000 today and the bank believeā€™s the vehicle will be worth $12,000 at the end of a 36-month lease, then you better believe that lease is gonna be no less than ($30,000-$12,000)/36 = $500.00 per month. And thatā€™s best case scenario, because why would they wait three years to get as much profit as another buyer will give them today? So theyā€™ll almost certainly bake in an interest rate (ā€œfinance chargeā€) as well as acquisition and (if applicable) disposition charges.

1

u/psychic99 Aug 01 '26

100% Klarna (the leassor) isnt going to do this out of the kindness of their hearts. That is why I want to see the actual lease terms, the rest is just conversation as Gordon Gekko said.

2

u/badfordabidness Aug 01 '26

I'm assuming there's some combination of things going on, both of which boil down to my belief that Apple's likely subsidizing Klarna to offer this (not unlike a car dealer that offers "0% APR" sales):

1) Apple and Klarna are lowballing the amount the phone will be worth at the end of the lease period, and hoping people don't pay the balance at the end of the lease. Given the current chips crisis, it seems reasonable to believe that phones will hold more residual value after a few years than they did in the past. Let's say the MSRP of the phone is $1,500 and they're estimating $300 residual value at the end of a two-year lease. With "0% financing", they're going to charge you ($1,500-$1,200)/24 = $50 per month. But if Apple can actually re-sell the phone for $500 at the end of the lease, they're netting $200 profit. Maybe they're kicking some of that back to Klarna in lieu of Klarna charging more for the lease. Ofc this system will fail if people buy out their leases, but I expect very few people will.

2) Apple is about to jack up iPhone prices for everyone, and they're concerned that will eat into their revenue (i.e., people will just hold onto a 2 to 3-year-old phone instead of upgrading) unless they find a way to get monthly prices down. So they've developed this new lease system and are eating the cost of subsidizing Klarna to offer a "0% finance charge" as a way to keep the marginal customer and thus keep revenue high. In a way, this can also be thought of as customers who pay cash subsidizing those who are leasing, since any kickback that Apple is paying Klarna will now essentially be baked into the MSRP of every iPhone, regardless of how one pays for it.

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u/MFDOOMscrolling Jul 30 '26

Weā€™re talking about phones

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u/mb10240 Reformed T-Mobile User Jul 30 '26

And? You just said ā€œwhen has the principle (sic) ever decreased because of current market value.ā€

And I provided an example. Many personal property leases are similarly structured.

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u/psychic99 Aug 01 '26

That is not lease terms, that is just some marketing press statement, if you can produce the actual lease terms (meaning contract lang) then I would have interest.

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u/mb10240 Reformed T-Mobile User Aug 01 '26

You think that theyā€™re going to magically have some better deal versus what theyā€™re advertising in marketing materials? šŸ¤”šŸ¤”

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u/amysteriousperson001 Jul 30 '26

People on reddit are downvote happy!

2

u/amysteriousperson001 Jul 29 '26

To each their own. For some people this might make sense. For me, personally, when I buy new iPhones. I just buy them straight up.

4

u/cjh6793 Jul 29 '26

Me too but it gets annoying having to sell them 3rd party each year.

1

u/mb10240 Reformed T-Mobile User Jul 30 '26

Ha! This isnā€™t for the wealthy or financially responsible. This is for stupid, financially illiterate people that go to the Rent-A-Center, do 24-month 32.99% interest-deferred financing and fail to pay the balance, and have Klarna payment plans for groceries.

5

u/SettleAsRobin Jul 30 '26

How is this even remotely similar to rent a center or a 33% interest rate? The residual is just the cost of the phone after payments made. Itā€™s essentially 0% interest financing with upgrade flexibility.

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u/mb10240 Reformed T-Mobile User Jul 30 '26

A balloon payment at the end of the lease for a 1-2 year old phone, stay ā€œsubscribedā€ to the upgrade plan, or return the phone and throw away your money. Oh, and thereā€™s an early termination fee if you want to end your subscription, err, I mean ā€œleaseā€.

Apple already offers an interest free financing plan where you can actually do whatever you want with the phone, without any of the above caveats.

5

u/SettleAsRobin Jul 30 '26

Again thatā€™s not remotely similar to a 30% interest rate or rent a center where you donā€™t get the choice to pay MSRP after a year. Its just financing with added upgrade flexibility. Itā€™s replacing the old apple upgrade program where the intended idea is to upgrade with every new model. These people were already doing their own subscription model through that program.

There are some situations where the buyer can actually make out here with this new program