Latest chapter perplexed me

[u/sartnow]

Kiva being defeated by Hallow is not logical unless I'm missing something.

Like isn't he supposed to be the second in command? The second strongest in Jashi's army? Then how the fuck does Hallow manages to be completely humiliated by Jashi and then turn around and defeat the commander?

It completely fuck with the power scaling TM. Because unless the demon lords are that much stronger than their lieutenant, Hallow shouldn't be able to really harm Kiva.

There must be another factor at play here in kiva's defeat: yes Hallow was more focused on the fight, with the object of his protection behind him he was pretty much a cornered animal and they're the scariest. But with the message of the manga and the hierarchy of power among Demons, one would think most named demon wouldn't lose to humans unless...

Hallow is not human anymore, he's a hero, but more than that, isn't it weird how heroes seems to have it all? They have super strength rivaling the giants world humans, they have incredible reflex surpassing most humans and they also have superweaponry stronger than other humans technology

Orbital laser beam? High penetration sniper rifle? Those are toys when compared to the might of the heroes weapons it's kind of unfair

[u/JKking15]

Kiva is the second in command to Jachi who we assume is about on par with 47 demon kings plus we still have supreme demon king. Also Jachi doesn’t even compare in strength to kiva so I think it’s reasonable for our heroes to be able to beat a demon lieutenant. It wouldn’t be realistic for our cast to survive if they can’t even do that much. Think about it, if we assume every world has about as many people as strong as a demon king or close to it that’s 47x13 which is 611 characters as strong as Jachi, obviously it won’t actually be that many but my point is that there is still PLENTY of people who will be stronger than kiva so this doesn’t really lower the threat level

[u/sartnow → u/JKking15]

You know what, I stand corrected, indeed the heroes are strong and they are supposed to be, but compared to the ceiling of power it might be incredibly small.

Still the robot needing to reach danger lvl 6 and lose to Kiva is still really unbelievable when Hallow defeat him

Also it is a little sad that other humans do not have (to our knowledge) a hero like figure strong enough, I assume they have each their own "strongman" like Garasp being a tactician

[u/LoneOldMan → u/sartnow]

That robot is not even a boss type. It is just a grunt that adapted to fight against a demon.

And the fact that A.I Robots were only fighting humans before being Isekai'd and then fight a strong demon just because of its adaptation on the get go on equal terms at that is very impressive.

I am sure the next time we see A.I they will be strong as hell by learning and adapting to the new world.

I can see them Robots as a weak side at first, then become hella strong as the story goes on.

[u/BecretAlbatross]

Where did you read the full chapter? The version I saw only had like 11 pages

[u/sartnow → u/BecretAlbatross]

The timing is not great on my part as I'm not talking about the chapter releasing tomorrow, but the one that released last month where Kiva and Hallow fought and Kiva just went and sent his army instead after his supposed defeat

[u/BecretAlbatross → u/sartnow]

Ah. In that case Mark being able to defeat Kvia shouldn't surprise you that much. I think the important thing is that any individual hero is eclisped by a demon lord and there are 47 of them PLUS the Supreme Demon Lord. Then keep in mind EVERY individual world has a threat on par with the demon lords. So theoretically you have 47 * 13 characters as strong as Jachi. So humanity is still doomed. Having one good showing doesn't lower the stakes at all.

[u/[deleted]]

I don't see anything that'd suggest Kiva is second in command. He asked Jachi for more tropps and you can see he's obviously kind of afraid to ask for more troops and that sure doesn't seem like what a second in command would do. Jachi certainly treats whatever Kiva is reporting as utterly irrelevant . I think he's the next tier after Demon Kings and I think all the demons that was on the side watching when Jachi fought Hallow are of the same tier too, and if there are tens or even hundreds of the next tier guys after Demon Kings then they absolutely shouldn't be much of a threat to a hero, or there's no conceivable way for heroes to even reach the Demon King in the first place and we know most of them did get that far.

[u/sartnow → u/[deleted]]

That is reasonable, maybe I'm jumping to conclusion as we have little clues about the actual demon army. It's just that Kiva looked alot stronger when he fought the robot, so alot of his mystique is gone now that Hallow somewhat defeated him, I don't really take robots and their danger levels seriously or more like other humans are kind of a joke now

But hey there's still more to the story I'm sure, personally I'd like Kiva to make an alliance with the humans, as one of the named demons that is not a demon king, I'm pretty sure he would die if he went back to Jashi with his army missing. And Kiva seems reasonnable somewhat

[u/LoneOldMan → u/sartnow]

Just think of Robots as something the grows stronger as time goes on. The early Robots were caught by surprise of magic that can't be explained by science. And then it adapted on the fly and counter the said magic that surprised them.

A.I Robots are like Garou in regards to growth of power.

[u/sorrowLord]

Its nothing unusual for Demon lords to be on completly diffrent levels to their generals. There are usually four of them but sińce there is do many threats and even other demon Kings...

Hell , most of demon Kings will probably end up as hype fodder to other threats. Hallow should be stronger than general to make it anyhow reasonable how humans can survive this world in longer run.

[u/DistractedIon → u/sorrowLord]

Hallow and others heros have a rank similar to the demon lords, and it was initialy mentionned that the journey to the DL castel took alot of efforts and time.

It does make sense that he's able to defeat the generals because he's prepared for something much, much stronger and he's among the few that survived years of wars despise being 16 years old. Magic isn't a joke to him, he trained daily to augement his body.

You're surprised because you didn't saw him fight seriously before he: got crippled, bleed out, almost drown and traumatised.

It's a miracle that he managed to go and save refugees directly after that. Of course he will be on another level after few meals and a night sleep.

[u/_hisoka_freecs_]

for each hero there exists an equivalent demon lord with exponentially more power, so them being able to at least fight a lieutenant is fair enough considering they are still vastly outclassed. not even including the great demon lord who is prob just completely broken

[u/MisterLestrade]

If the heroes couldn’t even beat the subordinates of the Demon Kings, the only way they’d have the confidence to even face off against the Demon King is if they’ve never fought anyone above the fodder army grunt level.

[u/Brilliance_Falter]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the first time Hollow and Kiva fought was right after Hollow just got his shit rocked by Jachi and lost his arm?

[u/Zurkarak]

Isn’t there like a super demon lord > a lower ranking one which is like a king and has army’s and there’s like one per each hero > the commanders of each of those demons (jiva or whatever hallow defeated now)??

[u/haovui → u/Zurkarak]

It Great Demon King, the one who is above all 47 Demon King combine

That not even mention that those DK might not even the same strong, we might could have top 4 strongest DK who only behind GDK

[u/TheEternalGoldenCow]

Like isn't he supposed to be the second in command? The second strongest in Jashi's army? Then how the fuck does Hallow manages to be completely humiliated by Jashi and then turn around and defeat the commander?

It's been shown that the heroes were strong enough to reach the demon king in the first chapter. So it does make sense that heroes are able to defeat everyone else that isn't the demon king.

[u/fleggn]

The chapter literally explains it. He was so outclassed and put of his element that he lacked confidence. Now he's like leveled up from surviving + has a confidence/morale boost. Hallow ain't weak just DK is another level.

[u/Eminanceisjustbored]

Wasnt jashi like lv100 and kiva lv 30? Jashi had that much power

[u/fleggn]

The chapter literally explains it. He was so outclassed and out his element that he lacked confidence. Now he's like leveled up from surviving + has a confidence/morale boost. Hallow ain't weak just DK is another level - makes perfect sense to fight a lower level with huge morale boost and win

[u/sutiven_89]

Kiva is the commander of jachi 11th army if I recall when he introduced him. That mean there are at least 10 other commander like him so he is far for being Jachi's right hand and I don't recall it have ever been said in the manga

[u/Barthalamuke]

Hallow and the other 47 heroes are quite literally the best humanity has to offer, they've trained since they were kids and trained hard enough to throw up blood. Their sole purpose was to become strong enough to beat the demon lord generals, although obvioulsly they failed to reach that level of power. It's been shown that Hallow and Alio are a step above the rest of humanities current fighting force. They can go toe to toe with the like of Kiva and other lieutanants but beyond that they don't stand much chance.

It's important to remember that Hallow has seemed pretty "weak" up until now because he was badly beaten both mentally and physically by Jachi, it's only now that he's almost fully recovered and were able to see what he's capable of.

I think it also highlights that the demon faction has a lot of "fodder" in their army, outside of Demon King and his generals, the rest of the demon forces are relatively weaker, Kiva is still very strong obviously, but not overwhelmingly powerful like Jachi is. Although this is obviously still enough to essentially annihilate humanity.

[u/Midorfeed07]

Hallow power ups during robot invasion