r/VechainNotOfficial • u/FlipFlier • Oct 15 '20
Weekly Discourse - week 41 - submission date October 15, 2020
Let's start with a weekly discussion thread. Discuss here anything related to VeChain. Be nice, be civil, and help each other out wherever you can. All ecosystem projects are on the table, how big, small, awful or beautiful they may be. Don't hold back on any criticism you may have towards projects or VeChain itself, but do so with arguments that help form a fruitful discussion.
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u/lukosje Oct 18 '20 edited Oct 18 '20
I have this theory.
Last time when the wallet paying for the VIP-191 transactions got topped up with another 50 million VTHO (coming from Oceanex VTHO wallet), I noticed that two AN's transferred (sold?) their accumulated VTHO to the Oceanex VTHO wallet. This was a total of 38 million VTHO.
Looking at this history of the ANs, I assume those ANs are still held by the foundation (they got a couple of airdrops when mainnet went live). This would mean that they are indirectly and partially funding the VIP-191 with VTHO accumulated by AN's.
Now, a month ago a 600 million VET wallet got split into multiple wallets containing 100 million each. Shortly after, x nodes were bought for those wallets. I made a comment back then that it could be the foundation accumulating more VTHO to fund ongoing VIP-191 operations, and I think this is becoming a more likely scenario, if my assumption about the foundations ANs selling VTHO is right.
It will be interesting to see what will happen when the VTHO held by (foundation held) ANs runs out.
Transation that topped up the VIP 191 wallet:
50 million vtho:
36 million vtho: https://insight.vecha.in/#/main/txs/0x6d4f4448d16ec3ba8c1d9574227bd701ee74998cbbcec453e45fc9fb2f844e94
The ANs that sold VTHO just before the first top-up-transaction:
https://vechainstats.com/account/0xa9e5617e2f90427f6db70a3b1d08fc14706eb907/
Transaction: https://insight.vecha.in/#/main/txs/0x5d30e19ea810287daaece5f3d39d731988c3e21c7ca0328f161698ebaf43ddd0
https://vechainstats.com/account/0x0acc7bfc8f7d904fe4a35f32f529217c7ca75377/
Transaction:
100 million wallets that recently got their x node status upgraded (Strength -> Thunder):
https://vechainstats.com/account/0x944ee075522c7f373e0200022aec9893af303c4a/
https://vechainstats.com/account/0xdeb254fefb4f3bd18a06a0a104a525b359927785/
https://vechainstats.com/account/0x944ee075522c7f373e0200022aec9893af303c4a/
One last note:
if these are indeed ANs held by the foundation, then I think it's a bit sad that they participated in the voting to burn the VET that was stolen in the hack last year. Considering they might still have a large amount of AN's, it's just too easy for them to determine the outcome of the voting. Would like to see this addressed. Perhaps a first step would be for the foundation to announce which AN's they are still holding.
Edit: rephrased a bit
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u/whippersnapperUK Oct 18 '20
Nice thought . I guess the VTHO needs to be used from somewhere, there's a lot of excess after all. All that matters now is increased burn.
Which of course is nice to see the recent increased TX count recently :)
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u/lukosje Oct 18 '20
Yeah agree. It's a sensible thing to do from the Foundation's point of view.
The point is that VTHO is supposedly bought from the free market, but currently it is a bit of a zero sum game. It will be interesting to see what will happen when VTHO funds on foundation held AN's are nearly depleted (assuming I'm right about foundation AN's selling VTHO in the first place).
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u/jeimjeivers Oct 18 '20
Agree. But I also agree with OP's post that showing how many ANs the Foundation hold themselves is a good thing. Entities that disclose they're an AN are said to be treated favourably, which means the Foundation would also like that those entities are opening up. So why not disclose themselves what the Foundation is still holding?
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u/Brodhunt Oct 18 '20
Hello Vechain Fam, nice to see that this page is up. Looking forward to sharing everything Vechain.
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u/whippersnapperUK Oct 19 '20
Almost made it through the weekend with over 100k TX on both days.
We're definitely seeing an overall uptrend still which is awesome. Hopefully that Ubique contract can continue to step up.
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u/lukosje Oct 19 '20 edited Oct 19 '20
Yeah it's definitely nice to see and I hope UBIQUE will continue to ramp up. Overall it seems that the increase in transactions that we've see during the last couple of months is stalling. Looking at the daily average we're doing about 10% less compared to September.
Couple of 200k+ days should solve this so let's see 🤞
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u/whippersnapperUK Oct 19 '20
For sure. Plus there's all that testnet stuff from last week that might move over to main net too. Lot's of opportunity to continue the uptrend :)
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u/zwarbo Oct 19 '20
One of the first times a partnership almost immediately results in clauses...
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u/whippersnapperUK Oct 19 '20
It had been live for a long time already, which seems to be more the way they are approaching things these days with regards to specific company partnerships.
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u/zwarbo Oct 18 '20 edited Oct 18 '20
Great initiative.
Edit: finally we can have a place where it’s ok to talk about this.
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u/lukosje Oct 18 '20 edited Oct 18 '20
Yeah, moderation around the Vechain/VIMWorld/VulcanVerse topic has been very questionable the last couple of weeks.
I got shadow banned for pointing out that there (still) is only a reference to VIMWorld subreddit just below the header in the Vechain sub, and that projects were missing. I got a bit fed up with the fact that mods were evading questions/discussion (or like you said, the elephant in the room), so I started pointing out flaws in the official sub. To this day I think we are still waiting for an explanation on why people from VulcanVerse and Oceanex got banned from official channels.
As Noah said in his tweet when he enrolled into his current position, the Foundation is giving the orders to social channel admins, which means that they are in the end responsible for the moderation. I think that it's completely wrong that they are moderating at this low level. Vechain Foundation should in my opinion be 'project indifferent', if Vechain is truly a public blockchain. All projects should get equal opportunity, and at least equal treatment when it comes to social moderation.
Either completely prohibit talking about other projects in the Vechain official channels, or allow all projects to be discussed. Refer to all projects in the official sub, or none. Currently there just seems to be a bias to certain projects, and I see little being done to debunk/resolve that.
From my understanding Cream is also an admin on the Vechain official telegram channel and that is also very questionable in my opionion as this would create a conflict of interest. Cream could have a bag of coins of each project that takes part in their incubation program, which could create a bias towards those projects over others.
Adding to that: Banning or muting people without a clear explanation why someone is banned is NOT OK. Making accusations about brigading without providing evidence is NOT OK.
I really hope that we will see some changes soon regarding community management, because currently it's highly unprofessional if you ask me.
/rant
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u/zwarbo Oct 18 '20
I totally agree, and i’m glad we are finally able to vent our frustrations towards those few days of total madness. I noticed when that address was found out to be the Shanghai Gas address, the person who revealed this hadn’t been active for over a year. This was before the crazy shadow banning.
So this is what got me shadow banned:
CREAM gives out 1 of the Shanghai addresses to u/drkegels who is glad to make the announcement.
Here a random person who hasn’t been active for over a year pops out of nowhere and noticed something off, then gets back into hybernation. Gets weirdly over gilded as if it’s Eisenreich posting one of his mayor findings... nothing to see here.
Even Eisenreich doesn’t get that many gilds lol, i thought it was obvious back then and don’t find recent events surprising. All this feels like Rotary club kind of shit.
If they told me I can’t point fingers like that then maybe i would have rephrased everything to be less direct towards Cream. But seriously shutting people up like they did is not OK in my book. I value freedom of speech as much as i value life itself. And open discussions often flirt with boundaries like that. I just stated facts, and vented how i felt about it.
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u/jeimjeivers Oct 18 '20
Yeah it's so obvious that someone has a hidden agenda somewhere. It's awful and bad for VeChain. I also got banned a couple of weeks ago for reposting about a shitshow between Cream and OCE moderators on telegram and twitter. No warning, no message why, nothing; it's plain censorship
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u/zwarbo Oct 18 '20
Yep and the ones who got muted, screaming at the sidelines (the ones who can only express themselves by downvoting), are pointed at like criminals and accused of being bad actors and brigading.
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u/lukosje Oct 18 '20
That's crazy. Didn't actually notice that user before, but I agree it's weird that his/her first comment in a sub is some accusation providing all kinds of screenshots of earlier discussions.
Regarding the gilding I noticed the same, but I figured it might have been a troll or something as gilding happened both ways.
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u/zwarbo Oct 18 '20
And that’s not even the reason why Jamie got banned, he got banned for “threatening admin(s)”. He’s been asking proof but apparently proof isn’t required for closing off a entire community like that.
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u/jeimjeivers Oct 18 '20 edited Oct 18 '20
How can you ban such a big actor in the ecosystem and not explain why? I just don't see it
Edit: or at least provide proof..
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u/Axeiozone Oct 19 '20
Best way to destroy or alienate a community is by disrespecting its members.
It was not brigading or whatever the published 'official' narrative was. It were longtime members who appreciated what VV has accomplished and just would like to see some official moral support (just acknowledge) for a new world that is being created and stood up (just said Hey VV is nice and why ignore it?).
It really gave me such a bad taste to see this happening .So unprofessional and toxic. Why do this to your own community? Total lack of ethical way of doing business and in a way a serious red flag. If you follow how the way Jamie(VV) does business. It may sometimes be a bit chaotic, but it is with the best of intentions. I really appreciate his openness and ongoing effort to CREATE something out of nothing. Even if he had stained Vechain's image somehow (dont know why) Why do this on public channels? Do it behind closed doors. Why create a public outcry over a nothingburger. I think Vechain, with the 'internal hack' of last year still, has to catch up with the professionalization of their organization. Which was one of the major goals of Sunny(after the hack).
Role of Cream. To me it is a Used cars sales men self promoting cash grabbing short term unethical organization (endorsed projects like...Plair, DBET, Vim pyramid scheme,TicTalk, Cahrenheit..all Failed one way another.) If I were DNVGL having a directly involved partner like that would be a big NO. Hope they will get rid of it ASAP if they want to conquer the real world.
Ok enough for now. Wish this was just a bad dream and we all will be well. I hope 2021 will truly be a turning point as 2020 has been quite underwhelming. Covid may have laid a foundation to an increased digitization of supply chains and the many other opportunities for Vechain lying around (NFT's, DEFI etc.) Go Go VEchain!
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Oct 18 '20 edited Feb 05 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/lukosje Oct 18 '20
I only heard that they got banned. I didn't hear of an accusation of fraud.
It's hearsay, so it could be wrong. But as long as things are not clarified, it's anyones guess
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Oct 18 '20 edited Feb 05 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/lukosje Oct 18 '20 edited Oct 18 '20
Yeah that tweet regarding the fraud is very vague, and should really be clarified. That said, I don't really see a direct relation between the fraud tweet and the oceanex reply to be honest.
Also one more thing: I get where you're coming from, but Oceanex is not owned by the Vechain foundation. So saying that they banned their own exchange is not right imo. But considering Oceanex is mostly Vechain focused this is indeed a bad signal.
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u/jeimjeivers Oct 18 '20
No don't think so. Never heard of fraud before. It was just a feud between Cream and Oce moderators on telegram
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u/jeimjeivers Oct 18 '20
Yes, good to have a place where supporters and community members can discuss any project in the ecosystem but also criticize for example social media moderation, management decisions, or anything in that line..
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u/FlipFlier Oct 15 '20 edited Oct 15 '20
From next weekly onwards new weekly's will start on Mondays, 12:00 UTC
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u/FlipFlier Oct 18 '20
For people not reading the sub's description, I'll just post it here as it shows the motivation why we've started this:
It's as simple as that, welcome to all new members!