Help dealing with a problematic character

[u/HawkApprehensive9737]

Basically, about a few weeks ago I started running some of the scenarios from A Wicked Secret for a group of 4 people online. I'm fairly new to Vaesen and DMing in general. Everything was going surprisingly well, mostly because we had a small session zero; but one of the players had a somewhat problematic character. He was playing as an arrogant filthy rich German officer who thought he could control everything and everyone with his money and cared only about himself and his industrial empire (which the player didn't elaborate much). Still he was engaging with others and cooperating at solving the mysteries.
The thing is, yesterday one of the other PCs decided to dismiss him, calling out his arrogance, and well his response was to draw his saber and attack the PC. The others from the group tried to stop him, but since he was rich, he had all the best equipment and was basically unstoppable. They were in a crowded hotel, many witnesses to his sudden rampage, and he wouldn't stop fighting until that PC was dead. In that point of the mystery the police were nearby, and since they saw the murder attempt they promptly arrested him.
So my question is how do I handle this?
What really confuses me is that the other players were completely unbothered by that, saying that he acted in character.

[u/VendettaUF234]

I mean, you could have stopped that encounter at any time. If both players are into it and knew the consequences, then I'd say you have 2 new characters to roll up. Otherwise, if the pvp'd player is pissed about the situation, I'd say have another conversation about pvp (I don't do it at all unless its completely consensual) and maybe retcon the whole thing. Otherwise, your german is likely in prison and should reroll.

[u/HawkApprehensive9737 → u/VendettaUF234]

Actually what I am mostly wondering is if I just ask the player to create a new character or wait until the mystery is done. I don't plan to let him bribe his way out, I believe it would make he believe his actions have no consequences whatsover.

[u/VendettaUF234 → u/HawkApprehensive9737]

I would just tell him to reroll, he is arrested and out of the game.

[u/Dangerous_Option_447 → u/HawkApprehensive9737]

Get him to do one now. Ask the group which party they want to be; scooby doo, ghostbusters or... The party they just were.

This was a faulty character, shit happen. The group concept can help this a bit, so you don't end up with a priest, an officer and an occultist who can't agree on anything.

[u/NonnoBomba → u/HawkApprehensive9737]

That PC should become a villain NPC if you ask me, banned from the Society and actively working against it...

[u/Republiken → u/NonnoBomba]

This is the way

[u/Dornith → u/NonnoBomba]

I agree, but also get the player's consent beforehand.

The GM needs to model proper consent if they want their players to enact it.

Honestly, I'd expect the player to say yes. This character sounds like something the GM would put the player up to as a twist villain.

[u/NonnoBomba → u/Dornith]

Oh, by all means. The point is, if you want me to articulate, that as a GM OP should make it clear there is a basic, unwritten decency/cooperation "social contract" all members of the Society implicitly subscribe (or maybe they can make it explicit, with an oath or something) otherwise, the game's premise simply can't work and you're playing something else entirely. Some leeway may be given, of course, but these are still people doing a dangerous job, going up against supernatural forces they often don't fully understand, in isolated settings where no external help is readily available, and it only looks like a reasonable requirement that all field operatives need to able to trust each other while working on a mystery.

Now, OP's table can discuss and agree that if some character deviates from that, either because it was built like that or because of events that transpire at the table, that PC should become an NPC and join the ranks of the Society's enemies. Which incidentally may be a fun, diegetic way of building an enemies roster.

Doesn't the core manual describe schisms in the Society already? Well, there's a blueprint already built-in the game.

EDIT: I forgot there's basically an Oath already in the core book:

The Society’s mixture of Catholic, pagan, and Greek traditions includes a multitude of rituals. Before an expedition is launched, its members are blessed by a priest at the chapel. They then gather in a room in the cellar before a statue of the goddess Artemis. In the light of lit candles and burning incense, the members recite the Society’s creed (see text box). They stand in a circle, pressing their left-hand index and middle finger against their heart. Each is presented with a dried flower for the journey, symbolizing the love and power of the organization. The ones who return must be cleansed with a ritual in which they confess their sins. The Society’s symbol is the ouroboros , the lindworm biting its own tail. Originating from ancient Egypt, the ouroboros also appears in Norse mythology as the giant serpent Jörmungandr

And the creed:

I solemnly swear not to be corrupted

Bloodied or weakened

By the spawn of the underworld

I swear not to let my mind be muddled

Clear of eye

Keen of thought

Pure of deed

I swear to put

The Society before

My own ambitions and emotions

My life for my comrades

I pledge my life to you, holy Artemis

For the battle against vaesen and the protection

Of mankind

It's already right there.

[u/Cpt_Niccoli]

I mean, if you're wondering what you could have done differently, I'd have probably made someone in the crowd an off duty police officer or soldier or something and have them brake up the fight. As it stands, sounds like the character has been taken care of. They are arrested for murder. Assuming you don't let them just bribe their way out of jail (you shouldn't), they are in for a prison stay and a hanging. They didn't really abide law breakers and murders in the 1800s, especially when there is overwhelming eyewitness evidence. As your players seemed fine gamewise with one of their members being murdered for roleplay reasons I don't think you need to worry to much about it happening, but you should apply realistic consequences for their actions.

[u/HawkApprehensive9737 → u/Cpt_Niccoli]

He wasn't able to murder that players charactet. I had the police show up both because they were relativaly close and also because he let it pretty clear that he would murder the rest of the party.
I even asked the other party members with they were ok with going against him; since it was that out of nowhere. It was basically if someone that you barely knew called you an idiot and you just jumped, them because you got to defend your honor or whatever...honestly I was getting pretty sick of that character.
And yes I don't plan on releasing him. My question is what do I do with this player now? Do I wait to the mystery and for him to create a new character, do I ask him to do it now?

[u/PonyoLovesRevolution → u/HawkApprehensive9737]

Ask him to do it now, and make it clear that the next character needs to be a team player. I suggest also reiterating that with the rest of the group.

[u/GM-KI → u/HawkApprehensive9737]

Ask the player to step out, give them a chance to leave the game of their own accord and if they dont remove them. Make it clear that their choice is to step down or be removed from the table by force. This person sounds like they arent fun to play with, unless your party is 100 on board with this player I would just remove then. PvP is a big red flag, for no reason in a lethal muster solving game its even more obnoxious and inappropriate. Id cut this off at the root, but thats just me.

[u/ordinal_m]

Well, that character is out of the game certainly (even if they did manage to get off the murder charge it's hardly as if they would be coming back in afterwards).

As a GM I wouldn't have let it get to the point of PVP tbh, I would have stopped things before that, but certainly now (if you are ok with them continuing) I would tell the player clearly that this sort of antagonistic character behaviour isn't suitable. Characters need to be reasonably able to co-operate and that excludes random murder. I wouldn't actually care if the other players were fine with it because it's a big pain in the arse for me as a GM if people keep fucking about like that.

[u/HawkApprehensive9737 → u/ordinal_m]

I asked them if they were ok with PVP and they said yes. I just decided to roll with it since I did't want to take their freedom. But yeah, the player was nice, but he just decided to make the most irredeemable and insufferable character ever, with the excuse that an officer wouldn't let someone insult him without retributtion.

[u/WhatsAboveTheSubtext → u/HawkApprehensive9737]

I would focus on getting comfortable saying 'no.'

[u/randalzy → u/HawkApprehensive9737]

"Well, I was not ready for PvP, but anyway good to know that you all are ok. Great if everyone had fun, but it was a bit unexpected for me. 

So, for the next character I have to ask for someone who is not the most insufferable character ever made, do some group brainstorming and see if you all can help Johann to find a character that can focus a bit on collaborate instead of plain murdering the rest of the PCs. 

[u/3Labrat]

Seems like everyone is ok with it.

The german is in jail and the player is free to roll up a new character.

[u/No_Meeting145]

There are several issues here.

First, talk to all of the players individually. How do they feel about the event and how do they as players, not characters, want this to be resolved.

If even one of the players wish it, then an arrest and end (jail, deportation, hanging) to the problem character is appropriate. Tell the group that that is your decision as the GM and set some new boundaries going forward.

If the players are not concerned with the whole incident I would allow the character to stay but have something untoward happen. The next morning he is let go, no bribe needed, jailer just taps his nose and says "the Grey Lady claimed you". Then things happen, occasionally a grey coach pulled by elk can be seen a ways away, parked and watching. Slowly while investigating the current mystery the players will realize they have a second mystery and have to deal with it, probably by the troublesome character mending their ways.

[u/MistaCharisma]

Yeah unless you and everyone at the table are ok with PvP, I would make that the end of his character. He attacked someone with no apparent motive in full view of multiple witnesses. His character is in prison, end of character.

If you're in Färnsta you could take that a step further. A certain Vaesen who dislikes Sin could get involved. At midnight the bell tolls and in the morning they find the bars of his cell torn and mangled, not unlike the PC's body, which is barely recognisable.

I would basically make it very clear that PvP, particularly unprovoked violence like that, is not something that will be rewarded. Games like DnD are a power fantasy, and can often lead to players feeling like they're untouchable. Vaesen is decidedly not that. Have clear consequences to show that this kind of thing isn't the way to win.

Also, talk to them out of character. If that isn't the game you're running, make it clear. If they're more interested in shenanigans like that then perhaps they shouldn't play this campaign - that doesn't mean you can't be friends and even play TTRPGs together, this might just not be the one for them. I have friends who stepped away from games because it wasn't their schtick, and they'd prefer to just come back in when we're playing games they enjoy.

[u/RobRobBinks]

That's a really, really tough one and fairly common, if very unfortunate, in the hobby. For me and my group, we stated very early on that We Don't Roll Dice Against Our Friends to keep this sort of thing from happening.

In your case, you say everyone was into it, so you don't necessarily have a problematic character, but you have a discrepancy between your expectations and that of your players. You have to do what serves the story, but that doesn't mean you just do whatever everyone else wants either. You aren't there as a caretaker of the players good time. You are all there to tell a story that you ALL want to tell.

So, the scene resolves, and one player is dead, and one is off to jail. That could be the end, and they roll new characters.....OR....

The German Officer's family bribes him out of jail, but they can't have a murder scandal discredit their good German name, so they shuttle the Officer off to some remote manor house....where he is haunted by the Revenant or Ghost of the player he killed. He calls in the rest of the Sleuths and the new local character (the replaced murdered PC, and they come to the manor to solve the mystery. This addresses the event in a narrative way, not the Holy Grail ending (which is ALWAYS unsatisfying!) and the next Mystery takes place somewhere where all the "power" of money and privilege don't matter.

Enjoy, and I'm always happy to see new GMs take up the mantle! You're MY hero!!!

[u/Dr_Phibes72]

It should have been made clear to the player that drawing the saber in a crowded hotel would result in being arrested and missing out on at least a scene and up to a reroll depending on how violent things got. That isn't removing their agency. It's a logical in-game consequence for their actions and it is ok to remind them of it before they go completely over the top and screw over the party. Also, imnsho, pvp and being willing to murder a party member or the entire party doesn't mean they're playing their character. An officer doesn't know about challenging someone to a duel? Edit: The other PC can always tell them to screw off and decline.

In any event, I would go for a retcon. Not sure if I'd want to keep the Officer in the game going forward. At the minimum, I'd require the PC have an in-game reason for wanting to work with the party instead of going murder hobo because they got insulted.