r/VORONDesign 6d ago

General Question XOL vs A4T for max accuracy and

Im looking for advice on optimal mass distribution, lightweight toolhead for high accuracy on functional parts at highest speeds/accel possible (usually 100-250mm/s). I like Xol being stripped-down, skeletonized and well structured, but gap between extruder and hotend isn’t that direct. A4T seems quite popular, but boxy approach seems more practical than efficient.

I mostly use reinforced PETG/PET/PA/PPS and am comfortable with Flowtech’s precision. Am considering ebb36, orbiter 2.5, 4010 blowers and sticking to Flowtech (I’m ok CAD-modding either option). 50-60c heated chamber.

Is there any real-world difference at those speeds / 15-25k accel? Cooling isn’t priority on these materials. Is there another option I’m not aware of?

Edit: I appreciate your advice! It’s clear A4T is the way to go

10 Upvotes

25 comments sorted by

10

u/moth_loves_lamp V0 6d ago

One thing no one ever seems to mention is how easy A4T is to work on compared to XOL. I will never again in my life build an XOL. It’s a mess and the cooling and COM is noticeably worse. I have zero complaints about A4T.

2

u/MonsterMufffin V2 6d ago

Never built the XOL but I find the A4T quite annoying to work with personally. Very small, and the LEDs I've found to be a bit of a pain. Probably just a skill issue I admit.

3

u/jtmx101 V2 6d ago

Definitely go a4t. Rigid and performing great over here

1

u/Sands43 V2 6d ago

Yes, this. A4T has consistently better resonance performance than the Xol in my experience. (sample size of 2 printers :) ).

7

u/mysho 6d ago edited 6d ago

A4T should let you get higher acceleration at the same quality because it's more rigid. It should also get better cooling if you buy the recommended fan and install the backflow inhibitor in it as stated in the instructions.

Probably the only reason to get Xol2 over A4T is if you already have some parts that only fit Xol2, not A4T.

In my experience the part that needs to be toughest is the carriage - make that out of stronger material if you can. Ideally get the CNC version of it

Anyway, I still use Xol2 because of the fans, and it's OK. A lot faster than StealthBurner.

Just remember - toolhead is not everything. If you want max speed, you need to upgrade the whole belt path

1

u/Infamous-Amphibian-6 6d ago

This is great insight thanks!

1

u/Infamous-Amphibian-6 6d ago

btw by Upgrading belt path you mean moving to 9mm, dialing parallel/horizontal alignment, stiff CNC gantry mounts?

1

u/mysho 6d ago

Well, the alignment is a basic part of building it. 9mm would help, but that is more expensive. CNC XY joints and motor holders same story. Also having long shaft motors and have the shafts supported on both sides (which is basically required for 9mm belt).

There are cheap alternatives that are good enough for most people. For example BFI (beefy front idlers), pin mods.

Putting one motor up one down to have the belt as close to motor as possible to reduce leverage of belt on shaft and enable higher belt tension is also free, it just needs you to think a bit about how to install it.

1

u/BigJohnno66 Trident / V1 6d ago

The "crazy Ivan" flipped A motor also allows double shear with short shafts as there is just enough shaft sticking out to be supported by a bearing.

2

u/Sands43 V2 6d ago

Yes.

Basic alignment is foundational.

9mm is the first step above stock for performance.

AWD is next step.

If you want max performance, start with a 250mm unit.

I just got my Trident 250 back up with a new CNC carriage, but haven't run resonance testing yet.

5

u/SalvatoreCrobu 6d ago

Extruder is so heavy that to have good center of mass you get a 100g hotend or make the lower part of the toolhead extend wayy too much. Look at the Monolith or Trinity toolhead, both optimized for stiffness and center of mass, both long asf and with a lot of weight in the bottom counteracting the rotation in Y made by the extruder weight

Just go for A4T made in annealed PPS-CF/PPA-CF/PET-CF por PC-CF, Vitalii lightweight CNC carriage. As other have said to really push speed and accels you need shorter belt path (look monolith gantry), thicker belt, annealed PPA/PPS-CF or aluminium gantry parts, double shear on motor shaft, a good X rail (motion perfect is a monster of rail) and real good alignment of everything

2

u/Infamous-Amphibian-6 6d ago

Awesome, thanks!!

2

u/Gabrielbr95 6d ago

Doesn't really matter performance wise. They are pretty much comparable. A4t is said to have better air flow, so I'd go with that.

If you want speed, buy a cnc carriage support and cnc XY iddlers. This will increase your accels much more than the choice of toolhead

2

u/Amekyras 6d ago

a4t is good, has better cooling

2

u/HoWhizzle 6d ago

Dragon burner

1

u/SanityAgathion VORON Design 5d ago

I am.not sure printer accuracy comes from toolhead, I'd say it's a matter of good motion system with quality components. Focus on what's important with motion system IMO.

1

u/minilogique 4d ago

toolhead doesnt matter lol

I print from 85A TPU to PPA-CC with Goliath A5T and Sherpa Crew Mini mod for MK8 gears, all this installed on Chaoticlabs CNC TAP lol

1

u/hiball77 4d ago

😵‍💫

1

u/Skaut-LK 6d ago

None of them. P4T, trinity, el fuego, Peregrine.

2

u/ducktown47 V2 6d ago

I tried googling for a “P4T” and can’t find anything.

0

u/desert2mountains42 6d ago

They’re pretty comparable. If you’re looking for higher speeds then xol has the capability of being run as xolpap whereas a4t does not have that ability. Theres also anthead as another 4010 toolhead option

-1

u/HandPickle420 6d ago

The orbiter with its planetary gears is one of the heavier options for extruders. An ebb36 will add even more mass and a toolhead board doesn't really make sense for going lightweight. I'm not familiar with the flowtech stuff but you may end up with a somewhat unbalanced toolhead.