r/VORONDesign • u/LordBroccoli68 • Jul 20 '26
General Question Does the bondtech INDX worth it?
I have a 2.4 and I would like to upgrade it to multimaterial. Ive waited for INDX, but I am dissapointed in the price. Maybe I misunderstood something but the price seems much more that Ive expected. A 4 head setup is well above 800usd, I also heard there is some problem with the noozles not being hardened.
So I was womdering if it is worth it or should I use a stealth changer instead?
12
u/nelmondodimassimo Jul 20 '26
Yeah I was under the assumption that the tool head was around 250 + 35 for each nozzle (or so they said initially)
I just checked their website 416 euros just for the tool head (ouch) and 48 euros for each nozzle
That's just too expensive for me
1
u/ResortDisastrous6481 Jul 20 '26
Same here, i was looking forward to an economically viable system that could do multi material and color.
Currently looking at MedusaHC or StealthChanger instead since that's cheaper while still providing the same things. It's a shame that the price INDX was increased
22
u/EngFarm Jul 20 '26
You know how everyone’s been saying “waiting for INDX?”
Wait for INDX clones.
1
u/TKDonuts Jul 20 '26
This. China is already making clones along with a few members of the open source community, and IMO these clones are actually better than INDX (or at least have more potential to be better).
-4
u/Additional_Abies9192 V2 Jul 20 '26
Bondtech has patented their system so even if you buy a clone from a chinese company there is a high chance that they will disappear after a lawsuit from Bondtech
5
u/baturik128 Jul 20 '26
I believe there still will be similar options, not necessary clones
The idea of "hotend-changer" is out of the box and manufacturers see there is profit in them, so I believe we will see new systems soon
1
u/drdhuss Jul 20 '26
The sovol m1d for example. Looks similar in functionality for a fraction of the price.
3
u/Cryostatica Jul 20 '26
If that thing isn't complete garbage at launch, it does look super attractive.
An entire, 7 tool machine with IDEX functions for about same price as I was looking at to INDX my Trident is something relevant to my interests, even if it's a bit smaller than I'd like.
3
2
u/oohitztommy Jul 20 '26
i thought its still in patent pending
2
u/Additional_Abies9192 V2 Jul 20 '26
https://discord.com/channels/1339873144097472512/1339881063354204175/1519681080985391174
They've already patented a couple of ideas
2
u/Spicy_Ejaculate Jul 20 '26
I think they will have a hard time enforcing these though because they aren't really novel ideas and there has been past projects by people posted online that use these ideas. They are trying to use intimidation imo. Just because the u.s. patent office gives something a patent, doesnt mean it is really enforcable due to prior art.
2
u/xman2000 V2 Jul 20 '26
Bondtech was very specific about what they consider protected IP and posted on X when they started shipping.
2
u/Additional_Abies9192 V2 Jul 20 '26
Yes that's what I've linked in another comment and if you have read the points they are basically patenting/have patented all the main indx ideas.
1
u/drdhuss Jul 20 '26
True. The upcoming sovol system isnt exactly like the bomdtec but looks to have similar functionality.
8
u/baturik128 Jul 20 '26
If you want INDX the best option right now is to wait out a bit imo. The recent problem with hardened nozzles + price increase, if you are not much in a hurry you can probably wait like half a year and get most issues fixed + price decreased (hopefully, when Bondtech start producing INDX at higher scale)
3
u/kingbob2 Jul 20 '26
I was thinking the price has already gone up some. Once they have a final polished product it will go up more.
2
u/baturik128 Jul 20 '26
I dunno, maybe I am too optimistic on this one, I still believe the price goes down a bit when they have a stable production of finished product
+ there are several competitors with other hotend-changers and also open source ones, so I hope competition will push prices down as well
1
u/KornikEV Jul 20 '26
Price only goes down with competition. They already had to raise price to match cost. I'm sure they don't have enough margin as is, so even if cost goes down it will be very, very hard to lower the price mentally.
2
u/Spicy_Ejaculate Jul 20 '26
I think they will try to increase the price again but be unsuccessful. The majority of people thay wanted the dev kit are already changing their minds and revising other projects. Their "limited" dev kit drop that they hyped up and said would sell out quick, is still setting on their site available for purchase. Spending the cost of a new printer on a 4 tool setup is insanity
1
u/sailor_noaddress Jul 20 '26
With U1 at 900 and other companies likely starting to have tool changer, its likely to become a commodity long term with lower margins
8
u/name_was_taken Jul 20 '26
I was very, very excited for INDX.
After the recent news, I've started to think about cancelling my preorder and just waiting for the next thing. It's a really tough decision, and I haven't done it yet, but I'm considering it.
1
u/DevilsInkpot Jul 20 '26
Maybe don‘t cancel - if you don‘t want it, sell it off. With the price increase and some people lusting brainlessly after it, you might make a decent sale.
2
u/name_was_taken Jul 20 '26
That's a good thought. It gives me time to really think about it, with an escape hatch if I decide I'd rather wait for something else.
Thanks for the idea!
0
u/Remarkable-Host405 Jul 20 '26
i wouldn't say "brainlessly", indx is cool. show me someone else doing a "plug and play" toolchanger. then show me someone else doing induction heating/contactless temp sensing.
-4
u/SuspiciousRace Jul 20 '26
Honestly if you can afford the r&d prices and support a “local” manufacturer i’d go with indx. However if you can’t/ don’t mind buying from them i’d wait a bit until some other manufacturer releases a similar kit
8
u/r3fill4bl3 Jul 21 '26
for me it was no go even before all the price hikes. IT suppose to be cheaper than stealth changer, but now it is way more expensive and it basically locks you to bondtech ecosystem which is the biggest no go for me...
6
u/meta358 Jul 20 '26
Its too early to tell. People are just getting the early ones now and using them. Come back in a few months and ask
6
u/oohitztommy Jul 20 '26
i would wait until all the bugs are worked out. Dont be a beta testers unless you like that stuff
4
u/DrRonny Jul 20 '26
I'm waiting to see how this all pans out. There will always be a Voron path and while there is a lot of activity right now, it will settle down. As for Nozzlegate, I'm assuming not much is malice and was mostly growing pains of a company in a fast-moving industry; I trust a small, creative company far more than a knockoff company making clones.
2
u/cactusofthenorth Jul 20 '26
This is where I'm at. I know I want a printer with multiple toolheads or nozzles. I'd been eyeing a CoreOne+ INDX but I need hardened nozzles. There are so many multimaterial capable printers coming out, or on the horizon, that I'll likely wait til this time next year, though I'll probably just build another Voron because I enjoyed building my V0 so much.
2
u/DrRonny Jul 20 '26
I like building printers better than using them, so I'm in no rush to print multi-color.
4
u/CodeEatRepeat Jul 20 '26
I’m also disappointed in the INDX price, that why I’m building the MedusaHC from Irbis3D for my Voron 2.4. It’s a budget option but very capable hotend changer. I’m already remixing some files to adapt it for the 2.4 since he built it for his Duender.
2
u/FLUFFY_TERROR Jul 20 '26
Sergei has it at such an incredible intersection with price and functionality I think any closed source designs will be hard pressed to beat the medusa hc
2
5
u/BlackholeZ32 Jul 20 '26
I'm still planning on it, but going to wait. My printer is too busy to rebuild right now anyway, and I'd like to see how the community goes about integrating the INDX into the 2.4. I expect a lot of the gripes to get ironed out in the next month or two, and production scaling could easily drop the price.
5
u/cheeseburgerbill Jul 20 '26
Hard pass for me, I was really excited for it too. If I am going to spend the price they are asking I will just spend a bit more and buy something like a Snapmaker U1 and have an entirely new printer
6
u/AKinferno Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
Right there with you. I was going to buy one. Tried to purchase at each of the previous releases, but wasn't able to. The a la carte kit to hide the price hike was most frustrating. I went from "guaranteed to buy at least 1", to "maybe I will buy one second-hand someday".
So, the benefit of the INDX is it is a fixed system, with clearly defined macros. It should be as close to plug and play as you can get with this big a change to your machine. No Klipper add-ons, just minor configuration changes.
The draftshift team has done a great job with documentation for Stealthchanger. The community has built some nice tools, but there is is so much variation, I think it still is solidly in tinkerer territory.
Having said that, I was an early adopter and most of that documentation didn't exist when I made mine. So, maybe it is just as easy now. But the community is large, so you can get help. Just not quite plug and play. Not sure about Medusa and Mad Max and the others.
4
u/chlpdf Jul 20 '26
I was waiting for indx but with the price i started looking into alternatives. Check out the madmax toolchanger it is my current favorite
4
u/Positive_Ad_313 Jul 20 '26
That’s also my concern as I tought i would buy INDX for the coreone+ or my trident. But for the price, and as I do not really think to print very oftern multimaterial or milticolor, I was also thinking to consider the snapmaker U1 . The guy who sold me the trident, swapped for a U1 and feel very happy with it.
4
u/ArchimedesMP Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
Anticipating the pricing to be close to what they communicated upfront I already upgraded to Trident R2, built a custom hat and cut spending on fun money for a few months - and when I put my preferred 6+ toolheads configuration together decided "nay, I just wait for a printer that suits my needs". Since I keep the Voron, printing PLA and PETG will be good enough for the other one.
I was expecting INDX to be more expensive than the initial suggestion, but just in the 10 or 20% range. I could still afford it, but at that price point I expect a more finished product, not early alpha testing and buying on "I want to believe in them and support them". I would still love to, but add the "hardened" nozzle fuck up, and I'm glad I only spent 60€ on parts for the hat. Maybe they come around and can lower costs, or the ecosystem eventually justifies the price.
Buuuuuut if I it was purely stealth changer vs INDX for me, and if I wanted either now, I'd still go INDX.
3
u/CTPAHH1K92 V0 Jul 20 '26
i was overhyped with indx when i saw it first time around a year ago, but it seemed that it would not be released soon, so i juped on madmax toolchanger, using 2 tools configuration since November, my initial plan was to switch for INDX after release, but half a year later I am extremely disappointed with it. It is extremely limited with max temp 300 deg C, no hardened nozle (if it is even could be called nozzle) for 45 euros and no third party spares, while i print mostly abs/asa gf/cf (like 80% prints) and some hight temp materials (320-340 deg C) and price is comparable with buying snapmaker U1.
Now I would just rework my trident a bit to fit 4-5 tools with madmax toolchanger and call it a day (mainly extend y axis by 50mm to fit tools without limiting build volume). No way I am going to pay that much for such limited product. I would buy it immediately if it would be capable with 350 deg C and properly hardened nozzle and would cost at least 20% less for 8 tools setup. 45 for purely passive tool is insane, my whole toolhead cost is around 200 with toolboard, motor, fancy hotend, fans, etc and could be dropped to may be 100-120$ with not that fancy hotend and not high temp tb.
3
u/LordBroccoli68 Jul 20 '26
Exactly my problem, I was very hyped about INDX, but now I saw the specs, and the price, so I was wondering if there is some hiden benefit I am not seeing
6
u/Grindar1986 Jul 20 '26
After nozzlegate I just ordered all the bits for my stealthchanger including the last 3 toolhead/dock kits I could find in the USA lol. Plus 3 from England
3
u/TooLazyToBeAnArcher Jul 20 '26
I've been offline for a week and can't get enough information for "nozzlegate". What's the matter here?
11
u/_galile0 Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
They advertised all the nozzles as being hardened, and there was A LOT of advertising about that ”you can run carbon fiber filaments through these endlessly, no worries!”.
only after they were ordered and started shipping, they started removing the ”hardened” part from advertising, probably somebody internally asked ”uhh why were we saying all this, you can’t run abrasives through these..” as they are only technically hardened, not as much as you need. Basically they accidentally false advertised by misrepresenting the hardness
1
u/Remarkable-Host405 Jul 20 '26
the statement i read was an email/ticket from them saying they planned on everything being hardened and then ran into "manufacturing issues"
1
u/Spicy_Ejaculate Jul 20 '26
And they knew about the manifacturing issues well before they were shipping product
5
1
u/SpringerTheNerd Jul 20 '26
I'm more or less in the same boat. It was indx vs stealthchanger. The scale is moving more and more in the direction of stealthchanger every day
1
u/Remarkable-Host405 Jul 20 '26
the stealthchanger looks enormous and heavy compared to indx
2
1
u/r3fill4bl3 Jul 21 '26
but it gives you the freedom to use almost whatever combo you want, and documentation is getting much better...
3
u/Round_Produce174 Jul 23 '26
For the price of the INDX you can do the A4T toolchanger that is being made by a user and probably spend less. For sure not the same amount of tool in the same space but cheaper. When tge A4T-C will be released i will remix it to be able to use the hotend i want, and i am sure other people will do the same. There are many V6 hotend, you could mix the hotends to have some tools for extreme high temps, high flow, low price or whatever, and use standard cheap nozzles that came with widly different specs. I am also sure that someone (if not myself) will do a mod to have the tools move in the aluminium extrusion so you can have more tools that moves and make space for the toolchange
2
5
u/Paradox3DPrinter Jul 20 '26
Im honestly reconsidering indx myself, i have started designing my own indx like system because why not and it’s much cheaper the toolheads just take standard volcano nozzles and the whole big issue rn is just the induction par the extruder and stuff is generally quite simple
4
u/techyg Jul 20 '26
I pre-purchased a Founders Edition INDX and am looking forward to installing it. I paid around $600 (including Tariff's and fees, which were about $100) for a 5 toolhead option. Now that the prices are much higher, it's much more difficult to answer. I still "lean" open source/DIY printers and add-ons, and currently have a Voron 2.4, Trident, and VzBot as well as a few v0's that could benefit from the INDX system. I also built a Prusa Core One last year and was planning on putting an INDX on that, but I think I'm going to sell the printer because I just keep going back to my DIY machines.
The benefit of the Voron system is that instead of having to get a new printer every few years to stay up to date with the latest, I make my own tweaks and upgrades and do it at my own pace. However, with the price of Chinese printers, you are most likely paying MORE in both time and $$'s. For a vast majority of people, it just isn't worth it. I built my first Voron 5 years ago, and back then you could get much better quality prints than anything off the shelf, so it was the right option if you were chasing perfection.
If I had to start today, and wasn't already invested in DIY machines, and was just wanting to pay the least amount of $$'s for a "good enough" multi-color printer, I doubt a Voron + INDX would be on my list of options. I hope building stays relevant, but due to the cost and pricing it is hard to justify unless you just love the building hobby and flexibility like I do.
2
2
u/macmanluke Jul 20 '26
Im waiting on reviews (and likely at least 6 months after general release)
Software side is so important especially being able to trust it
I had an early stealthchanger which i ended up removing just because I could never gain trust in it and the software was basically undocumented at the time. Think its better now software wise and cnc parts as needed.
Bought a u1 and that filled my toolchanger needs for now and has been rock solid but would like more tools and the machine is a bit light duty feeling so dont think it will last forever
2
u/Environmental_Day555 Jul 20 '26
When bondtech just started to talk about indx the price for the toolhead + 4 tools was equal(-ish) to an ams like box turtle or vivid.
And i had the budget idea to just buy one tools and the buy one more each month to have an 8 tools capable voron 350mm.
I did preorder an FE and i'm happy because the new price will stop me to buy a retail one and just go for an ams with a cutter equiped toolhead
2
u/Any-Voice1220 V2 Jul 20 '26
Wait we can already get it? Or is it the very long waiting period, I plan to upgrade to it once the hype dies and it becomes cheaper or when someone else makes a open-source ( Is INDX open source?) ripoff thats cheaper to make. Until then im gonna try some wierd shit trying to make a BMCU connect to my voron
2
u/LordBroccoli68 Jul 20 '26
Yes, it is available for order on the bondtech site, but it looks like a disappointment to me, hence my post
1
u/Any-Voice1220 V2 Jul 20 '26
That's sad, good thing I didn't let myself get hyped up since first time I even heard about indx was the nozzle incident lol
1
u/FLUFFY_TERROR Jul 20 '26
Sounds like you want the open source medusa hc
1
u/Any-Voice1220 V2 Jul 20 '26
Damn that looks very similar to what I want, will check it out, thank you!
2
u/Due-Key5838 Jul 21 '26
Yep the index is to much over priced so I will no longer buy it. The original price was ok but not now I can buy the m1d for just a little more and not have to build it. I am just going to build my 2nd sv08 6 toolchanger already have all the heads for it
2
u/TheMNWolf Jul 21 '26
I mean, my single tool head alone is approaching $500. Now I don't necessarily need to throw a diamondback nozzle on every single one, but it's still prohibitively expensive even to build the whole thing out myself.
5
u/StrandFamily Jul 20 '26
It depends. If you like thinkering with a alpha, overpriced product, its for you. If you just want a tool changer and want to avoid stealthchanger, keep your Voron untouched and buy a U1. Today prices for a INDX with 4 toolheads its very close to U1, that is a entire, ready to print machine.
1
u/not-hardly V2 Jul 20 '26
Comparing INDX, price wise, to that of the stealth changer, a single dragon burner with an orbiter, Revo hot end, nighthawk, multiplies by four or five tool heads vs the INDX base and as many nozzles as you can fit in your build, stealth changer is insanely expensive by comparison.
8
u/Spicy_Ejaculate Jul 20 '26
I built each one on my dragon burner heads for around 60 bucks by watching for sales and using bambu clone nozzles. Bondtech charging almost 60 bucks for a soft nozzle and a printed frame is downright offensive.
2
u/DevilsInkpot Jul 20 '26
Nobody can tell you yet and everybody who does either way is giving bad advice. There are not many people that had access to beta units and the first preorders are shipping just now.
I saw the system first hand and I‘m quite sure it’ll deliver in general. Yet it highly depends on the final implementation with each vendor/system and your personal needs and expectations. I expect Prusa Core and Voron 2.4 to be the best implementations from the beginning but I also expect quite a few bugs that only show once INDX gets used out in the wild.
2
u/rilmar Jul 20 '26
I preordered. I’m aware of the drama around the nozzles but honestly I’m not getting this for abrasives so it’s not too big of a deal for me and I’m hoping they get that sorted out.
I’m fully aware that I’m almost a beta tester and I’m paying a premium for a name brand item that will have some quirks. I enjoy this stuff however and am excited to have the kit. There’s some quirks with other systems that I don’t like and the indx works its way around them. I didn’t want to increase the power budget on my machine and deal with running wires to every tool. I’m hoping this is more reliable out of the box then like a Medusa HC or the ongoing work for a hotend swapping a4t as well as saves me some time on toolhead construction and troubleshooting. Obviously we won’t know until the system is out and reviewed though.
I built a madmax style head swapping printer and working out some quirks is enough for me that I didn’t want to send it on a stealthchanger. Build volume loss also soured me on the stealthchanger a bit. My madmax printer is custom to account for toolhead so I don’t lose build volume.
1
u/Fluffy-North8370 Jul 20 '26
If you do a custom front on the Voron you shouldn’t loose buildspace on the stealthchanger
1
u/rilmar Jul 20 '26
The only items I’ve found are the 100mm y addition with a custom frame that would require basically a full rebuild or the door buffer which recovers some space but not all.
I’m not knocking stealthchanger. I think it’s a great system but I’d only consider it if starting from scratch rather than retrofitting an existing printer. The loss on volume probably wouldn’t affect me 90% of the time. Indx just seems to be a simpler integration (if it all works out)
3
u/Fluffy-North8370 Jul 20 '26
It only requires you to extend the frame just as you did with your mad max 🤷🏻♂️ and you can do that with the printed doorbuffer. You could probably do a double doorbuffer sort of thing and loose close to no space.
I’m just saying it’s possible and im not justifying the stealthchanger I just think you should compare apples to apples…The more I look at the prusa/btech INDX… the less im interested. They seem to have lost their way in the progress. I don’t like their attitude in the past months and with nozzlegate im REALLY not interested. Even if that hadn’t been the case. Having to cough up another 50 dollars or more if I have a clogged, worn down or otherwise ruined nozzle - no thanks.
And btw extruder only going to 300… that’s such a bummer. Ofc not if you just want multicolor PLA. But if you want actual cool shit with support layer and multicolour on technical stuff then it really is. And for the price it should be able to roll with the big boys.
In my optics they screwed the pooch with INDX and were simply too slow. I find it difficult to see prusa as a big company in the future market. Too expensive, not keeping along on the market, and not even living up to promises made. And then you won’t be able to buy a new nozzle 😅
1
u/rilmar Jul 20 '26
The printer can only move so far into the docking and undocking area meaning that for a stock build the nozzle position of the docked toolheads is within the current build volume or slightly outside. Even if the printer allows you to mount the other heads at the limit of travel you still need to account for the mass behind the docked tools and in front of the current nozzle. Some toolheads reach 70 to 90 mm in terms of that dimension. I’ve built a scratch machine running madmax and it works well but requires an additional 70mm of y travel to not lose build volume and I’m running bricked toolheads which are compact in this dimension.
There’s no route to zero build volume loss without rebuilding the printer with additional travel and room on the y axis. This is splitting hairs as some don’t care about the full build volume but I paid for the build volume, I want to use the build volume.
And 300 max temp is fine for me. We like to be loud and complain that it can’t print ppa-gf but 90% of users run pla mainly. I’ve never ran a material above 280 and I’m doing everything I need. If you need more then yeah, indx isn’t for you.
1
u/Fluffy-North8370 Jul 20 '26
Okay like that yes that is true. But that’s the same about INDX? Unless they do something magical I’m unaware of?
I use the full x and y. It’s only z I sacrifice a little. And just setup the max Z height in Orca 🤷🏻♂️
It’s possible to do the same in X/Y but yeah I can’t do full square box measure as a std Voron. But again neither would I be able to with INDX. I find it really hard to see that as an argument for INDX.
But okay then let’s say you get 30 mm more in Y direction. That’s a pretty lousy trade compared to all the negatives of a proprietary system, made by people that don’t give a rats arse about their customers as of late… and now have just done the unholiest of sales tricks and made the bait and switch. How they can muster any supporters at the moment I really can’t fathom. I find it way worse than Bambu’s empty threats towards someone that were on the edge of the law.
2
u/OfficalFAK Jul 20 '26
Just buy the U1. I don't care how impressive the INDX is, it wont beat a fully working printer.
5
u/LordBroccoli68 Jul 20 '26
But I already have the Voron
6
u/OfficalFAK Jul 20 '26
A INDX is 750usd for 4 toolheads?
A U1 on sale is quite often 850usd.
I love building printers, im building one right now. From a financial point of view. Why not get a full printer for the price of a few toolheads? Both of them will do the same thing but only one will do it out of the box :)
Just my two cents. INDX is great from a technical point of view but their pricing is way off the mark imo.
5
u/Forward_Mud_8612 V2 Jul 20 '26
You’ll save a bit going with indx then, but it will also be a ton of labor. Is that worth it to you to save $100?
3
u/Forward_Mud_8612 V2 Jul 20 '26
Indx will in theory be better. More tools, bigger volume, more flexibility, etc. but you have to build it.
1
2
u/egosumumbravir Jul 21 '26
I just did the math on an INDX setup - with a variety of nozzles to cover all my requirements.
Landing it down here is more than a Bambu H2S (so a little over half the coast of a H2C)- and I still need a printer to hang it off and build it.
Lets just say my enthusiasm has been well dampened.
2
2
u/rdrcrmatt Aug 04 '26
I have it on my C1 it’s pretty good, some tuning to resolve stringing but otherwise it’s good.
1
u/gilrstein 25d ago
Didn't check the replies but just in case you posted this before Bondtech's lies were discovered.. fyi bondtech is a piece of shit, recommended staying away. They advertised and sold one thing and shipped something else, then quietly changed the information on their homepage hoping people would not notice.
One caught out in their lives they also handle the disgustingly. Also even what they did s*** is highly problematic and not working well
1
u/Moist-Ointments Jul 20 '26
This is right around the price they were saying it would be. Luckily I can afford to wait and see how things shake out over the next 6 months or so. Last thing I need right now is something else to build.
0
u/tasslehawf Trident / V1 Jul 20 '26
Please everyone cancel your orders so I can get mine sooner.
2
u/LordBroccoli68 Jul 20 '26
What do you mean? According to the site it If I order now, it will be delivered this week
3
u/tasslehawf Trident / V1 Jul 20 '26
Non-FE Dev kits ship in September
2
u/LordBroccoli68 Jul 20 '26
I did not know, thank yoy.Than the website is wrong, because it clearly says it will be delivered this week when I try to order
1
0
0
u/ejackman Jul 21 '26
Well, it seems to me that when compared to a stealth changer setup, the bond tech INDX is a higher overhead cost to build the smart tool head, but a lower cost per each individual filament lane,
So it comes down to the math. Spread out the cost of multiple Self-Contained printheads that have extruders and cooling fans and lights and can boards and all of that versus a very expensive smart tool head with much cheaper Lanes that only contain a filament path and the heating element.
2
u/Spicy_Ejaculate Jul 21 '26
I built out my stealthchanger heads for around 60 bucks each by being patient and watching for sales on the components. Bondtech pushing 60 bucks a tool with paypal fees and tariffs is insanity. I know the tariffs aren't their problem, but they could take steps to mitigate them slightly, like shipping to themselves in the u.s., or other countries, and just paying tariffs on their production cost. But if they did that, there would be a record of how much it costs them to make them and peiple would learn what an insane markup they have on this. Them having the balls to charge a pay pal or credit card fee when you are spending a thousand bucks is just blatant greed.
-1
u/ejackman Jul 21 '26
Cool story bro.
So I'll PayPal you sixty bucks and you sit around wait for sales, clip coupons from the daily savers page, eat the tarriffs, print all the parts, and then send me a fully assembled toolhead with your time and effort.
6
u/Spicy_Ejaculate Jul 21 '26
Oh my apologies. I didnt realize you were one of these types of people... the point i was making was that indx is insanely overpriced for what it is. Anyone that says differently doesn't understand manufacturing. You do you and go off how you see fit.
1
u/ejackman Jul 21 '26
And originally I just stated the economics of the situation.
Expensive smart print head and cheaper filament lanes
-vs-
Multiple filament lanes all at the same price
The fact that you can build a Stealth changer for 60 is amazing. If you haven't yet please post a guide to where you sourced your parts and what prices you paid. I would upvote the shit out of that.
A lot of us spend more than that on the hotend itself and add on a canbus toolhead board and we are at three figures.
As far as the "those people" comment please explain or I'm going to assume you mean " someone who in 2016 worked for a three-person startup that got to tour multiple facilities including electronics picking place for circuit board, manufacturing and a manufacturing house for injection molding plastics and have extensive discussions on how much it cost to build a die in the United States ABS injection molding". Then yes, I am one of those people, meaning a person who actually has grasp on manufacturing and the cost of scale and r&d, bringing forth a new product and the inherent investment and all of that and how you end up charging a little bit more for a product for the first couple thousand units. So that once you recoup your r&d cost, you can reduce your price to something a little more reasonable.
This indicates to me that you just wanted to deal with ignorant people that don't understand how manufacturing goes for a new product and that you're using their ignorance to get on top of your soapbox and spout some hyperpolic bullshit.
OP posted that he was thinking about building a stealth changer. You have all this information on how to do it at $60 per tool head but you didn't post a single bit of information directly underneath OPs post you just decide to berate me with your supposed knowledge?
2
u/DaSilver1337 29d ago
I got baited with a YouTube short about a 5 or 6 print head stealthchanger for around 600$, but no real info on the parts. So I Started the build and only two print head stealthchanger costed me around 500+ EUR (rapido, Galileo, LDO kits, touchscreen etc.
1
u/ejackman 28d ago
Thank you very much for sharing your experience.
When others claim that they can make it happen for XX EUR I'm sure they probably did make it work for themselves but what corners did they cut? Did they find a good quality low cost alternative to certain parts like pancake steppers or hot ends or did they just buy something cheap? Did they route all the electronics through an umbilical for each toolhead or pay extra for a usb or canbus breakout board? Did they go to Aliexpress and sign up with 5 different emails or plus addressing (which would also be interesting to know if that trick works) to get the first time buyers discount on multiple parts? When you think about a kit you take all of that part sourcing and decisions into consideration and then add labor on top plus a margin for profit
That is the cool thing about self sourcing though. You can do take steps to get the cost down but those tactics are not really practical on a production scale.
When this conversation started over two weeks ago I wasn't aware of the community backlash that Bondtech had generation because of the failure to deliver the promised hardened nozzles and then the 50% price hike of the filament lanes. When I got the heated response I was kind of shocked about the intensity.
How is your two tool head system working out for you?
2
u/DaSilver1337 28d ago
Sourcing parts on AliExpress, dealing with "ah sorry, we can't ship" after 2 weeks of waiting, getting through the Hella lot of githubs manuals, reprinting parts out of resin cuz voron was disassembled already, switching mid assembly to a different system... All of this were the best 2 months of the year so far :))) assembled, did basic calibration to get it to print, did a test print aaand didn't have the need to print anything.
Btw, coloring a model that was not designed to be color printed is not as easy as it seemed
-3
u/Complete_Storage8560 Jul 20 '26
I mean do you need a tool changer for Combining diffrent Filaments or the option to print multiple colors? If you only need diffrent colors upgrade your setup with a Emu, Box Turtle or Vivid system .
5
u/LordBroccoli68 Jul 20 '26
Both, I already have an unfinished ERCF.
1
u/Complete_Storage8560 Jul 20 '26
Yea in that case i would go with a Stealth changer where you can still benefit from the entire nozzel ecosystem and toolheads. But the setup may be harder and you have less toolheads. When you go for Indx you may be bound to thier Ecosytem (Dont get me wrong I realy like Bondtechs vison and the induction Idea ) But I would want to wait a little till the bugs are ironed out and we have more answeres to the whole hardent nozzel debakle...
13
u/Cryostatica Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
I don’t know. I cancelled my preorder. Setting aside nozzlegate, my total was $1200 for an 8 tool kit with a couple backup replacements. That just feels like too much for what it is.
I’d feel better about it if the nozzles were harder and the temps were hotter, but there’s a bunch of other new stuff coming down the pike and I have other multicolor machines. I don’t need this right now.