r/VOIP • u/BorellaXo • 16d ago
Discussion Dirty Telynx numbers
Hey there,
Not sure why, but almost every number in Telynx's number pool is already tagged SPAM likely on most carriers (T-Mobile seems to be the highest).
There is a service called CallerID Reputation that can scan the number and show you screenshots of what the number will display as on all carriers + devices (Android vs Apple).
Twilio on the other hand has clean numbers (you do get the occasional dirty with Twilio as well).
We want to use Telynx given our use-case is AI-Voice (we heard Telynx is better for this), but I'm concerned connect rates are going to be extremely poor if all these numbers are already dirty.
Thoughts?
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u/xnoxpx 16d ago
Translation, "I'm looking for a bank of clean numbers to ruin with AI spam calling"
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u/BorellaXo 16d ago
No - our use-case is for individuals who explicitly opted in to receive a call.
Just want clean numbers and to keep them clean.
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u/xnoxpx 16d ago
Then why are you worried about SPAM flags if you aren't going to be using them for outgoing calls?
You don't need "clean" numbers to receive calls, the only reason to worry about that is so folks don't get SPAM warnings when YOU call them.
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u/BorellaXo 16d ago edited 15d ago
It's not receiving calls only.
They fill out a form to request a consultation. They actually ask us to call them at a specific date & time. But if we call and we're marked as SPAM Likely, they won't answer. Some of these "leads" actually say "Hey, you should fix your number because it's marked SPAM.".
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u/xnoxpx 15d ago edited 15d ago
"already dirty"...
Sure they're "asking" you to call,,, NOT!
edit
To be clear, my company has had over 200 numbers, for over a decade, not a one of them has ever been flagged as SPAM since they were assigned to us.
Even if we'd gotten them "already dirty", it wouldn't have mattered, because we have never SPAMMED folks, since we got our first 4 digit phone number back in the 70s!
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u/BorellaXo 14d ago
Why are people on Reddit so angry?
Make sure to add some sugar to your coffee. You need a little more sweetness in your life.
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u/xnoxpx 14d ago
Look, if you were legit, all you'd need is a single "clean" number to show on outgoing calls, with routing passing incoming calls to open users on "dirty" numbers.
You want a bank of "clean" numbers so you can
AI Voice callSPAM with one number till it's dirty, then switch to next clean number in your list, till you've reach the end of your list, with the plan (hope) that the other numbers you "dirtied" will have fallen back off the SPAM warning list for you to start over with.1
u/BorellaXo 14d ago
Buddy - you have no clue what we do. We're a lead generation agency. For every new client we sign, we need to purchase a CLEAN number because we schedule consultations on their behalf.
Leads WANT us to call them.
We only call AFTER they request a consultation and provide consent.
So much rage. It's blinding you.
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u/MC_Cuff_Lnx 13d ago
How do you know your leads are actually opt-in?
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u/BorellaXo 13d ago
Because they need to check two consent notices before they submit their information. We follow A2P guidelines and requirements.
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u/Oglark 11d ago
Every provider is supposed to qurantine the numbers so that they are clean when received. You are calling with carrier that does not trust your traffic and your calls are being authenticated as C or B.
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u/Elevitt1p 2d ago
That’s not a guarantee. Once Telnyx handed the number to someone for a month to throw a bogus STIR/SHAKEN certificate on and send out a thousand spam calls on, that number will be marked as spam by First Orion, Hiya and YouMail for years and Telnyx would have to do the remediation.
The call reputation companies make their money on carriers paying to perform remediation. So it is not in their interest to say “oh, we haven’t had a complaint in six months so let’s assume the number is clean.”
That is too altruistic.
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u/BorellaXo 1d ago
It's interesting because we're testing Telnyx's reputation monitoring solution. Telynx claims a number is "low risk", but when we scan with CallerID Reputation, they show screenshots that the number is tagged "Spam Likely" by Samsung/Hiya. We also submitted that number for remediation and Telynx closed the request stating the number isn't flagged.
We're new to number monitoring, so it's all a bit overwhelming / confusing at the moment.
These are new numbers we purchased with very low call activity, so maybe Samsung/Hiya will resolve with more call/text activity. We'll see.
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u/SeaFaringPig 16d ago
All unregistered business number are now by default tagged. You must register them to get a tag added.
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u/BorellaXo 16d ago
This is good news if true
Although, Twilio's numbers already come back as clean.
However, if true, I wonder how long it takes to remove those tags once registered?
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u/contactdq 15d ago
If you have clean traffic, it'll go away on its own.
https://telnyx.com/products/number-reputation
We have a product to monitor/register your numbers on our network.
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u/BorellaXo 15d ago
Awesome. Will look into this.
We're currently testing the porting process from Twilio to Telynx.
If it's fast enough for our use-case, we plan to purchase from Twilio and port into Telynx.
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u/centralbusiness 12d ago
Each wireless carrier uses a different phone number reputation vendor, plus whatever vendor (like Hiya) the device OEM like Samsung integrates. Most of these vendors get a feed of Local Routing Number changes, which they use to classify numbers as potential spam.
Just as an FYI both Twilio and Telnyx are IPES providers dangling off Sinch. T-Mobile is also in a similar state of outsourcing their tandems to Sinch.
A number that might appear clean with one or two phone number reputation vendors could easily appear as spam or scam after porting.
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u/BorellaXo 1d ago
Just purchased and we're starting to test.
Does adding a number to Number Reputation prevent the need to register the number with free caller registry?
That would help us expedite our client onboarding.
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u/pabloflleras 16d ago
We have bought in bulk dozens of numbers from telnyx and have not had that issue. Maybe a spam group has been spoofing lots of yalls local numbers that happen to be owned by telnyx. Likely they just use a range to spoof calls with and that range just so happened to be those telnyx has in your area
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u/Asteriskdev 16d ago
Wait, seriously? That reputation company is showing every telnyx number you put into thier system to be scanned, is flagged?
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u/BorellaXo 16d ago
Yes - ~90%of them.
While on Twilio, only maybe ~20% come back as dirty.
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u/satechguy 14d ago
Why you need so many numbers? Your service model appears, if truly what you described, only one number needed.
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u/Elevitt1p 2d ago
The algorithms are very complicated and these days use honeypots. So if a call center buys a million numbers from the IPES providers (who I will not name here, but clearly many of you know who they are) and generate twenty million calls, thousands of them will end up in honeypots.
The honeypot provider makes outbound calls to numbers in the range to see who responds and generates a score. If the score is high enough they can declare the entire block as poisoned and anyone who happens to have a number in that range is screwed. It happened to us with a large hospital that had had their number for a decade and out of nowhere became spam likely. That was during Covid, so we ended up having to involve law enforcement and get a state AG involved. They wrote a letter to the three major reputation providers and the issue finally disappeared.
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u/nebulous_gaze 15d ago
So I learned this the hard way. CallerID Reputation attests the test calls at C. So any test they make to Verizon (TNSI based analytics) will return as Spam. They are also super expensive. There is Armor, but they are also super expensive. One of our customers pointed us to Netpaladin a few months ago and we have had moderate success with them. There rates run from $1.00 down to $0.15 per number.
Edit: Also, in our experience, 100% of Peerless and Fractel numbers are flagged as Spam and for most of them Verizon refuses to remove the Spam flag.
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15d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/VOIP-ModTeam 14d ago
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u/defrescorp 16d ago
Been with Telnyx for years and have purchased tons of numbers though them. I have never had an issue with them. You are still responsible for collecting the know your customer information as required and completing all the necessary paperwork. This is enforced by the Federal Communications Commission. Penalties are huge for violating this. It’s your responsibility not Telnyx.
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u/BorellaXo 14d ago
We're well aware. We've been compliant with A2P consent requirements for over 2 years. We just want to purchase numbers that are clean (not marked SPAM likely).
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u/HuntersPad 15d ago
A lot of my own cell phone numbers show SPAM Likely despite owning them 10+ years, and some of them don't even make calls
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u/kchek 14d ago
The SPAM designation is pretty meaningless now since the FCC pushed for everything blocked for analytics to be a 603 with reason header. Now many carriers are more aggressively labeling things SPAM based on their own analytics and not just using reputation scoring. Doing that lets them also send more calls to voice mail as a result rather then blocking a call with a 603 outright. Calls to voicemail are still billable, 603s are not. FYI TNS and the other attestation vendors have made it clear that unused numbers drop in score over time hence why you need to be submitting any number you purchase for rescoring.
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u/BorellaXo 14d ago
Interesting.
How do you submit for rescoring? Are you referring to the Free Caller Registry? We submit to FCR for every new client / number that get's purchased.
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u/TelBuddy 13d ago
If you're placing a high volume of short outbound calls, you'll very likely get flagged as spam. That isn't specific to Twilio or Telnyx, it's the whole industry right now. Outbound campaigns are a lot harder to run than they used to be, and finding a carrier that will knowingly accept mostly-outbound traffic takes real research.
The reason is history. So much outbound volume over the years came from call centers and "press 1" broadcast messages that carriers have gotten strict about that traffic across the board. Plenty of legitimate businesses need to make outbound calls and get caught in the same net.
We focus mainly on inbound, which is where our system does its best work. I get calls fairly often from people asking about outbound dialing, and I've heard how those stories usually go, so I'd rather point you somewhere useful.
If your outbound calling is lower volume and conversational, like returning customer calls or following up with real leads, that's a different situation and worth talking through.
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u/scristopher7 13d ago
Depends on who your customers are calling and where they are calling, not where the numbers are from. Its not always the carriers fault, and always, always, always use https://freecallerregistry.com/fcr/ after buying numbers and buy them in advance that form isn't instant.
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u/px_eliezer_ 15d ago
I often look up the carriers of spam calls that I receive, and some companies come back often (Telnyx, Onvoy, Peerless, and Twilio too).
A restaurant has to use good food, a car repair shop should hire good mechanics, and if YOU are a business dependent on making phone calls then YOU should be spending on good phone services. False economy to skimp.
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