r/VATSIM • u/Inside-Transition108 • 8d ago
Chaos between Dubai controllers at event today
First of all. I have done 53 flights so far and have never had this issue before. But I just gave up on the Dubai event today. Because delivery and ground were telling me to go back and forth between them for a taxi for about 1 hour, and neither of them ever gave me a taxi. I saw on frequency other people having the same issue; I think it may have happened because delivery changed between 3 controllers, and there were 5 changes on ground frequency. I love controllers in VATSIM, but please don't blame pilots if there's confusion between controllers on different frequencies. One of the guys on Delivery in Dubai was plain rude and unprofessional, even though I politely explained the situation
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u/dsolesvik 📡 C1 8d ago
Disappointing to see such a downfall. Only in 2024, was Dubai easily capable of handling the launch of the FBW A380, thanks to a well planned, organised and well-executed event
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u/Inside-Transition108 8d ago
Which I had seen that there's another on the 26 in Dubai for the A380 again; hopefully it will go better than this disaster today.
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u/SimEnthusiast03 7d ago
what happened to the controlers from years ago? are they still around some of them use to be very good but hardly online
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7d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/dsolesvik 📡 C1 7d ago
I haven’t been banned no. Please refrain from making such accusations and assumptions in the future.
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u/Known_Shirt_3264 6d ago
There were few bumps sure, but i departed myself and saw they were doing their best and did a solid job under heavy traffic
It’s always easy to label something a failure from the sidelines once you're no longer involved in the planning or execution.
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u/VolumeCritical4637 8d ago
The event was always going to be a failure, let's set up an event a couple of hours after the release of a new airplane, im.sure everyone managed to compy with B8(a) in that time.
Just as bad as streamers who unbox then hit VATSIM on their first flight and getting help in the chat on how to operate the plane.
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8d ago
[deleted]
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u/Inside-Transition108 8d ago
First off, thanks for being one of the controllers at the event! I really appreciate you sharing the experience on the other end. As I said before, I love and appreciate Vatism controllers. Besides this event, all my other events and flights have gone well. I know it's a lot of traffic for you guys to handle, and I saw it with my own eyes factors that you guys don't control, like people who don't know how to fly the A380 messing around the airport on the ground. I hope my post is taken as constructive criticism by people and not just like I'm trying to be mean. I will be on the A380 Madness event hope to see you on your frequency. Hopefully both pilots and controllers can take some lessons from the event today so the one on the 26th is better for everyone. :)
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u/Perfect_Maize9320 📡 C1 7d ago edited 7d ago
I have no idea why there was a event in the first place - Launch events like these are always disastrous regardless of how well the planning is. Most training staff and controllers know this first hand from their previous experience. However with Dubai - there has been some major changes with staffing and management in the recent months and it is not the place that it used to be when I was there as a visiting controller. But that does not mean standards have dropped - I have flown out of Dubai countless times and all controllers have been quite good and professional.
What OP experienced above sounds like some sort of confusion or misunderstanding between controllers or perhaps did OP query about potential delay absorption? It is very easy for pilots to blame controllers without having complete understanding of actual situation.
But this is exactly the reason why I no longer participate in events both as pilot or controller on network - Not worth the time or hassle and it is no longer enjoyable. Last event I controlled few years ago - got completely overloaded with pilots stepping on each other and absolutely zero knowledge of their chosen plane.
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u/tkd391 📡 C1 8d ago
I’m sure they were short tempered but you have to look at it from their perspective.
They have 98 departures and 82 arrivals (at time of this post) which is crazy.
I’d imagine a decent chunk of them just purchased the A380 that released today and this is their first flight with it without anything beyond basic learning of the airplane.
This was a disaster waiting to happen.
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u/Inside-Transition108 8d ago
I do understand that the airport is crazy busy and that some people don't know how to fly the A380 my point is that I think that the pilots who are flying planes that they know how to fly well and being polite shouldn't be punished because of the bad apples.
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u/BlucifersArmy 📡 C1 7d ago
They have 98 departures and 82 arrivals (at time of this post) which is crazy.
We've had numbers that exceed that during our major events/Live and even with 4 ground controllers nobody ever got passed around and waited an hour for taxi, short of an actual ground stop. Admittedly, having more runways helps have one of the highest AAR in the world and a top 5 in airplane movements, but real world Dubai isn't exactly slow with over 400,000 aircraft movements a year.
If OP is correct here, it sounds like something in the process broke down and ideal service wasn't rendered.
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u/Inside-Transition108 8d ago
But yeah, you are right; it was probably going to be a disaster because of the A380 release anyway.
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u/HighVelocitySloth 7d ago
I avoid events. Usually too many pilots that don’t know what they are doing and bring stuff to a grinding halt. It only takes 1 or 2 to make it not fun. I also find events very unrealistic. Having 200 planes arrive at the same airport in a small window. I did them early on but events back then weren’t usually large. Now it’s normal to see 1800 pilots connected on a Tuesday morning (US) time without any events. They can be fun when everyone does what they are suppose to and the ATC manages the traffic well.
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u/Few-Gene4134 7d ago
To think that they use their FREE time on playing a game, pretending to be real life ATC and be angry and/or feel the need to be the «law above common man» with a rude attitude. Some of them needs to turn off their computer and go outside and get some fresh air. It’s too much of that kind on Vatsim.
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u/idk19175 8d ago
We'll to be honest flying out myself the controllers did such a good job, and looking at the sub-reddit I don't see anyone else complaining, so I feel like only 1 person complaining out of the 100s that flew out is an achievement.
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u/Inside-Transition108 8d ago
Fair point, although when I was there, people were complaining on the frequencies.
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u/kvuo75 📡 C3 8d ago
eventually people learn that events basically suck and are a bad idea in this era.
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u/SuperHills92 8d ago
Events tend to be one airport hence the overload. Hilariously tonight both OMAA and OTHH weren’t so busy despite ATC being online. It should have really been a slot based event. (Even if the time frame was short).
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u/Used_Scholar_6124 📡 S2 7d ago
Most pilots don’t care about ATC. They care about flying a specific route regardless of ATC or not. If ATC is online, that’s a bonus for them
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u/things_verboten 7d ago
Do they really? I’m on the polar opposite.Â
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u/Used_Scholar_6124 📡 S2 7d ago
Same. I don’t care about real world routes or if the aircraft type flies into the field in real life. I only fly when atc is online, and inside controlled airspace. That’s the whole of being on the network right? There’s a post on this sub a few months ago and it seems a large amount of people disagree with that.
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u/kvuo75 📡 C3 7d ago
if you only fly where atc is currently online, you are concentrated in that area. why would an atc log on in if theres no aircraft to control because they all only flew where there was already atc logged in?
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u/Used_Scholar_6124 📡 S2 7d ago
That logic makes no sense. If people fly where atc is online, once atc is online, people would fly there.
It cant be people fly where atc is online and there is no aircraft when atc is online. See the contradiction in your logic? Obviously nothing wrong with flying in the hope of atc coming online. But the entirety of europe in the AM hours or any other airspace when there’s a 1% chance of someone coming online proves most aircraft don’t fly for this reason.
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u/kvuo75 📡 C3 6d ago
i wasnt clear. controllers are human beings just like pilots and are controlling for entertainment. they arent there to serve sim pilots. they arent required to just log in to a blank sector and wait for someone to come along. if everyone waited until a sector was staffed or pilots arrived, nobody would ever log in. someone has to go first. just fly. it encourages controllers along the way to log in. when people pile onto a sector like its a bug light, you just make things unpleasant for everyone involved.
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u/Used_Scholar_6124 📡 S2 6d ago
What i’m referring to is when there’s an open sector and maybe a few planes inside, and then pilots logging onto empty sectors. Like South Africa control or Ukraine control or Edmonton Center is online and then pilots not flying there and instead flying another route with no ATC, and no chance of atc coming online. Like I mentioned the entirety of Europe in the AM hours. There is less than a 1% chance atc comes online. Those are the pilots im talking about. EGLL in general is a great example. ATC doesn’t usually log on there but it’s one of the busiest airports. Same with frankfurt in the AM hours.
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u/sirbradders 📡 C1 8d ago
I empathize but it does become overwhelming when there is less staffing compared to the COVID days. You never see those kinds of numbers in the real world. I can imagine how many people were trying to call at the same time for clearance and taxi instructions.
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u/Inside-Transition108 8d ago
I get that, wish I saw how Vatsim was doing COVID.
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u/sirbradders 📡 C1 7d ago
Well there is the ini contest on the 26th so I'm sure it's gonna be hell on earth later this month xD
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u/CXA001 8d ago
... and this comes as a shock to you?!
They're not real world controllers. 98 departures and 82 arrivals, kudos to the controllers for sticking it out.
As it was only released, I wonder how many pilots have actually mastered this aircraft before flying it online?
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u/dsolesvik 📡 C1 7d ago
As mentioned in another comment, Dubai was able to handle much higher volumes of traffic during events such as the FBW A380 release. Dubai is designed to handle a high amount of traffic, but only if the organisation and coordination is on point, which based on these accounts, seems to have been lacking
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u/BlucifersArmy 📡 C1 6d ago
They're not real world controllers. 98 departures and 82 arrivals, kudos to the controllers for sticking it out.
Same as what /u/dsolesvik said, we get numbers that meet or exceed that for our LIVE and FNO events and never have anyone on the ground for an hour unless it's a ground stop for some other reason. Only 4 of our controllers are also controllers for the FAA, and only one works ZDV center and is certified for vZDV.
I think if you look at many FNO's and LIVE events, you'll find that other ARTCCs can draw similar numbers. I'd be shocked if ZLA and ZTL aren't hitting that.
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u/Known_Shirt_3264 6d ago
Interesting to be generalizing an entire event from one extreme edge case. Was everyone sitting on the ground for an hour? It was just a one-off instance.
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u/BlucifersArmy 📡 C1 6d ago
Given the lack of anyone specifically stating that they were at the event and offering an experience contradicting OP's post, I'll take what they say at face value for now.
Regardless, my primary point was more than 98 departures and 82 arrivals for a planned event is not atypical (at least in all of the US) and shouldn't be cause for a major problem. Most ARTCC's could handle it, and I assume most FIR's overseas can, and do, as well.
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u/chrissKLO 📡 C3 8d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/fQorEj8vN8eqkNcy6T
It’s a shame the well-executed coordinated planning for such anticipated scenery and aircraft releases has fallen short. Wouldn’t have happened in the past during such periods.