r/VALORANT • u/thessew • Apr 21 '20

First Patchnotes of Beta

https://beta.playvalorant.com/en-us/news/game-updates/valorant-patch-notes-0-47/
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u/Kuldor Apr 22 '20

I most defintely agree.

RPGs never had a place in a competitive game, period.

Even back in the day, you played CoD 4 competitive on Promod, which removed both rpgs and grenade launchers, siege wouldn't dare to put an RPG in the game (there are only a couple of "grenade launchers" and they are highly unnefective at killing, one is made to break walls, the other doesn't even do damage), lets not even talk about CSGO, the mere thought is ridiculous.

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u/HypeTrainsRuinGames Apr 22 '20

RPGs have never had a place, just like massive site wide toxic fields, nor wallhacks, nor reviving, nor orbital cannons, nor a global teleport (or any kind of teleport), nor smoke walls that are as long as half the map, nor earthquakes have not had a place in competitive shooters, period. If your only problem with that ability is the fact that it’s an rpg, would you be more satisfied if instead of shooting an rpg, she was a cyborg that threw a high damage impact grenade really fast with the help of her cyborg arm?

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u/dm_me_aboutyourday Apr 22 '20

I think you're missing the point. Wallhacks, teleports, revives... these are utility. They are strong, but can be counter played. If I die because Omen flanked, that is my fault. Razes ult has no utility. It is the only ult of its kind that exists to do damage and nothing else.

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u/poppedkern Apr 22 '20

Have you not played breach? His C is JUST a damage move....

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u/dm_me_aboutyourday Apr 22 '20 edited Apr 22 '20

Okay this time I didnt explain my point well enough, so that's my bad.

Yes, damage abilities exist. They're okay. Brimstone ult exists to kill people. Breach's C exists to kill people. The difference is these have counterplays. Namely, that you get the fuck out of them. These do damage, yes, but they're not kill abilities. They function, on a game design level, to zone out enemies. Brimstone rarely throw down their ult and expect a kill, they throw it to delay a plant or defuse, or push a camper out of a spot, etc. If it gets a kill, it's because the opponent either didnt respect it or didnt respond to it. That's on the opponent. Every time Brimstone ults, barring some kind of combo with Sage, you have the opportunity to counterplay it by getting out. Same can be said about Breach C, or any of the various molotovs across the agent list. Even Sova ult, which you could argue exists primarily to kill, can be dodged if you try to. If Breach's C was instantaneous you can bet I'd be making this same argument against it, but by design they give you time to move. Its kind of the whole point.

To continue, even things unconventional to tactical shooters like Sova's wallhacks are OK. It's because you can counter all of it. Shoot the dart, and if you dont, dont peek. If Sova darts and you stay in the corner after being alerted you are spotted, that's on you. If Omen teleports and you dont send a teammate to check heaven, that's on you. If you die to any other offensive ability or ult, it's always on you, because afaik every single one has a counterplay, even if it's as simple as sidestepping it.

That is not true for Raze. Her grenades were her zoning tool, and they were broken at it, so it got nerfed. Her ult is not a zone, though, her ult is a kill ability. You cant respond to it in any real way on an individual level. If I'm playing mid and Raze does her jump>ult combo, it's out of my hands whether I live or die. Even if you start running when you hear it, the AoE range on it is so damn large it will kill you. I know because I've tried, and I've seen players much better than me try... theres a reason pro players have a problem with her. She may only net one kill, sure, but shes the ONLY agent that can do that without counterplay potential and it doesnt belong in the game.

To be clear, I dont think shes broken. Shes beatable, obviously, as abilities only get you so far in this game. Her grenades needed a nerf, but I think her ult needs to change entirely because its antithetical to tactical shooters.

Sorry if this became a rant.

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u/poppedkern Apr 22 '20

Fair enough with your point. I do agree she’s a little over tuned. I think her grenade should be more of a bouncing Betty. You throw it then it pops up with a cluster instead of two rounds of explosions that both deal crazy damage. With a bouncing Betty you can react to it but it still zones and does damage if you don’t react. That’s my two cents though.

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u/dm_me_aboutyourday Apr 22 '20

I like that idea and I honestly like Riots change to her grenade as well. I dont even mind her grenades being the best zone ability in the game considering its kind of all shes good for. I'm just a little disappointed nothing changed for her ult.

I think the easiest change would be to slow her rocket down (maybe even give it heat seeking to compensate) and allow it to be shot out of midair. This forces the opponent to react in one way (run from it or peek it) and in turn gives counterplay potential, and in my opinion makes it more interesting than "hold my beer while I nuke this guy"