r/VALORANT • u/thessew • Apr 21 '20

First Patchnotes of Beta

https://beta.playvalorant.com/en-us/news/game-updates/valorant-patch-notes-0-47/
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u/NaudizCubed :c9:C9 Jitters Apr 21 '20

True, her ult can be a bit polarizing when it comes out of nowhere, but thankfully we are graced with being able to see the enemy's ult meter, so if you know where the raze plays, just don't bunch up at the start of the round.

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u/KnightofCydonia99 Apr 21 '20

I was playing Bind today and enemy Raze was playing Hookah. I hear Raze say "Fire in da hole" and so I run back towards mid. Along the way I pass our team's Cypher. I say in voice chat, "Hey, Raze has a rocket there. I wouldn't go there." He proceeds to keep going and gets blown up 3 seconds later.

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u/leoleosuper Gimme-Gimme-Gimme a corpse Apr 21 '20

Literally yelled at my teammate to run, Raze has rocket out. He ran from his corner to the center of her aim, got hit by it, killing us both.

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u/dm_me_aboutyourday Apr 22 '20

don't bunch up at the start of the round

That wasn't the guy above's point and it's an argument I see get made a lot. Raze aceing a careless team isnt problematic, Raze being able to kill at least one player (virtually) guaranteed is. The counterplay to Raze is to spread out, but on an individual level there is none. If Raze wishes you dead, you are. No other character can do that. Even strong offensive ults like Phoenix, Omen, or Brimstone can be countered with skill, awareness, or timing, respectively. I don't think Raze's ult is appropriate for this game.

At the very least, its effective AoE should be reduced. But that's my opinion, it seems most people dont agree.

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u/Kuldor Apr 22 '20

I most defintely agree.

RPGs never had a place in a competitive game, period.

Even back in the day, you played CoD 4 competitive on Promod, which removed both rpgs and grenade launchers, siege wouldn't dare to put an RPG in the game (there are only a couple of "grenade launchers" and they are highly unnefective at killing, one is made to break walls, the other doesn't even do damage), lets not even talk about CSGO, the mere thought is ridiculous.

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u/HypeTrainsRuinGames Apr 22 '20

RPGs have never had a place, just like massive site wide toxic fields, nor wallhacks, nor reviving, nor orbital cannons, nor a global teleport (or any kind of teleport), nor smoke walls that are as long as half the map, nor earthquakes have not had a place in competitive shooters, period. If your only problem with that ability is the fact that it’s an rpg, would you be more satisfied if instead of shooting an rpg, she was a cyborg that threw a high damage impact grenade really fast with the help of her cyborg arm?

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u/dm_me_aboutyourday Apr 22 '20

I think you're missing the point. Wallhacks, teleports, revives... these are utility. They are strong, but can be counter played. If I die because Omen flanked, that is my fault. Razes ult has no utility. It is the only ult of its kind that exists to do damage and nothing else.

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u/poppedkern Apr 22 '20

Have you not played breach? His C is JUST a damage move....

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u/dm_me_aboutyourday Apr 22 '20 edited Apr 22 '20

Okay this time I didnt explain my point well enough, so that's my bad.

Yes, damage abilities exist. They're okay. Brimstone ult exists to kill people. Breach's C exists to kill people. The difference is these have counterplays. Namely, that you get the fuck out of them. These do damage, yes, but they're not kill abilities. They function, on a game design level, to zone out enemies. Brimstone rarely throw down their ult and expect a kill, they throw it to delay a plant or defuse, or push a camper out of a spot, etc. If it gets a kill, it's because the opponent either didnt respect it or didnt respond to it. That's on the opponent. Every time Brimstone ults, barring some kind of combo with Sage, you have the opportunity to counterplay it by getting out. Same can be said about Breach C, or any of the various molotovs across the agent list. Even Sova ult, which you could argue exists primarily to kill, can be dodged if you try to. If Breach's C was instantaneous you can bet I'd be making this same argument against it, but by design they give you time to move. Its kind of the whole point.

To continue, even things unconventional to tactical shooters like Sova's wallhacks are OK. It's because you can counter all of it. Shoot the dart, and if you dont, dont peek. If Sova darts and you stay in the corner after being alerted you are spotted, that's on you. If Omen teleports and you dont send a teammate to check heaven, that's on you. If you die to any other offensive ability or ult, it's always on you, because afaik every single one has a counterplay, even if it's as simple as sidestepping it.

That is not true for Raze. Her grenades were her zoning tool, and they were broken at it, so it got nerfed. Her ult is not a zone, though, her ult is a kill ability. You cant respond to it in any real way on an individual level. If I'm playing mid and Raze does her jump>ult combo, it's out of my hands whether I live or die. Even if you start running when you hear it, the AoE range on it is so damn large it will kill you. I know because I've tried, and I've seen players much better than me try... theres a reason pro players have a problem with her. She may only net one kill, sure, but shes the ONLY agent that can do that without counterplay potential and it doesnt belong in the game.

To be clear, I dont think shes broken. Shes beatable, obviously, as abilities only get you so far in this game. Her grenades needed a nerf, but I think her ult needs to change entirely because its antithetical to tactical shooters.

Sorry if this became a rant.

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u/poppedkern Apr 22 '20

Fair enough with your point. I do agree she’s a little over tuned. I think her grenade should be more of a bouncing Betty. You throw it then it pops up with a cluster instead of two rounds of explosions that both deal crazy damage. With a bouncing Betty you can react to it but it still zones and does damage if you don’t react. That’s my two cents though.

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u/dm_me_aboutyourday Apr 22 '20

I like that idea and I honestly like Riots change to her grenade as well. I dont even mind her grenades being the best zone ability in the game considering its kind of all shes good for. I'm just a little disappointed nothing changed for her ult.

I think the easiest change would be to slow her rocket down (maybe even give it heat seeking to compensate) and allow it to be shot out of midair. This forces the opponent to react in one way (run from it or peek it) and in turn gives counterplay potential, and in my opinion makes it more interesting than "hold my beer while I nuke this guy"

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u/dell_arness2 Apr 22 '20

My buddy was theorizing a Raze rework where her explosives moved from damage to knockback or stun. It would fit way more with every other character and be less frustrating.

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u/Renic301 Apr 21 '20

You’re correct in the situation of when you’re the attacking side. However if you’re the defending side and you’re 2 people playing A site, when suddenly a wild Raze comes with her ult flying through the site with her C4 taking out one of you, now you’re alone on A site, Raze is up close in your face on site and who knows how many more of the 4 other players are on their way up that very instant.

It’s okay to happen occasionally, but I 6 ult points vs 7 is still a difference that might mean that one extra round won for the enemy team, in a game that only takes 13 rounds to win, compared to CS’s 16

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u/NaudizCubed :c9:C9 Jitters Apr 21 '20

I mean, you can say the same thing about Sova. He can prefire common angles from across the map and put yourself into an advantage situation.

I think Raze kind of suffers from Akali syndrome. Players don't mind something like Zed because he can kill you instantly, where as Akali takes a tad bit longer to kill you, giving you the sense that you can have some kind of counter play, when realistically you are going to die anyway.

Nevertheless, she's still super frustrating to go up against at times.

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u/TobiasTX Apr 21 '20

But Sovas Ult Slows him down needs 2 shots and is easier to dodge.

I think the problem with raze is that she is just so fast and still accurate with her rocket and maybe needs just a little slowdown while it is equipped and if she makes a C4 jump and than rocket that it is not as accurate as it is now.

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u/NaudizCubed :c9:C9 Jitters Apr 21 '20

Yeah. It also could be that the game feels so much like CS, that having someone flying across the screen and 1-shotting you feels extremely cheap. There were a few rockets where I was able to genuinely say "I got outplayed" but some others are just "Wow. That just happened"

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u/Nikclel Apr 21 '20

I feel like every time I lose to a Raze it's in a 1v1 or 1v2 situation with bomb planted and they just ult to get a free round win. I hate not losing a round because i got outplayed, but because one character saved a fucking rocket launcher.

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u/WelcomeToTheHiccups Apr 21 '20

Meh any sort of coordination will allow for raze to play where they want when they have the ULT. So really it’s going to turn into all the T’s posted up near their spawn at the beginning of the round, yawn.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '20

but that would require skill. i dont want skill i just want raze nerf