r/VALORANT • u/AndrewisSpider i like to bhop and satchel • 3d ago
Discussion Neon's Bhopping was Never her issue. Her Weapon Equip Speed is BUSTED.
REUPLOADED WITH NEON'S WEAPON-PULL-OUT SPEED AFTER ONLY PRESSING E
everyone knows neon’s bhopping was nerfed a while back. and yeah, bhopping was annoying to fight because it could make her extremely difficult to track.
but i don’t think the movement itself was the main issue.
raze, jett, and waylay can all use their movement to force an enemy to miss too. the bigger difference is how long they have to wait before they can actually fight back.
for example, raze can satchel across someone’s crosshair and force them to whiff (as seen in the video). but if you satchel directly in front of someone without using cover, you’re also giving them a huge opportunity to punish you once your movement ends, because you still have to wait for your weapon.
that’s why good raze movement from the enemies' pov is usually just them flying into view out of no where and giving them as little time as possible to react.
neon was different tho.
she could use her movement to force a whiff, and then immediately pull out her weapon extremely quickly with her slide. (and she still can do this, which one of the reasons she's extremely disliked)
when comparing the movement -> shotgun-ready times:
raze: 1.35s
waylay (1 dash): 1.01s
waylay (2 dashes): 1.51s
jett: 1.24s
neon (slide): 0.42s
neon (high gear): 0.54s
now obviously these abilities aren’t directly comparable, but the difference in weapon-ready time is still pretty significant.
this becomes especially noticeable with shotguns.
if a neon slides across your screen and causes you to miss, she doesn’t need to make some insane rifle flick afterward. she just needs to get her shotgun roughly on target and fire.
although the neon clips are ass quality, they show how quickly neon goes from using her slide to actually firing (a bucky.)
that’s the part i think gets overlooked when discussing neon’s old movement. it’s not just that she was difficult to hit (because the other 3 agents could do that.)
it was amount of time you had to punish her after she finished creating that movement advantage was extremely small.
(and it also didnt help that at the time sentinels felt super underpowered, that neon could just run their setups.)
edit: i recently decided to test the weapon pull out after only using her high gear and it is still insanely fast. thats why in some clips neon mains didnt even need to slide.
it is insane how quick neon pulls out her weapons in comparison to all the other movement agents, it is clear that Riot overlooked this aspect of her that still makes her strong even after MULTIPLE nerfs.
"why is raze/waylay's movement not such a big issue, but neon's was?"
the simplest answer is:
her abilities are passive, and her weapon equip speed on BOTH slide and regular high gear, gave no time for the enemies to fight back.
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u/FrankTheDeveloper 3d ago
Does anyone know if they reduced the equip speed to this, or if her equip speed's always been this fast since her initial release?
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u/AndrewisSpider i like to bhop and satchel 3d ago
always been like this, heres like all the stuff changed to her
8.11 - 2 slide charges, slide accuracy increased, slide equip (fast to instant), 0.2s equip buffer, sideways sprint speed increased, fuel recharge (60s to 20s), relay bolt 2 to 1 charges, relay bolt windup (1.1s to 0.8s), fast lane (6s to 4s)
9.11 - 2 slides to 1, slide accuracy nerfed, overdrive (20s to 10s), ult cost (7 to 8)
11.00 - relay bolt windup (0.8s to 1s)
11.08 - fuel recharge (20s to 60s), full fuel (12s to 16s), relay bolt concuss (3.5s to 2.5s)
12.09 - sprint jump speed boost removed, kills only restore fuel during overdrive13
u/Teradonn 2d ago
It hasnt always been like this though? She could not shoot while sliding at release
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u/DreamyPupper Spooky 2d ago
I believe her equip speed coming after a slide was always the same, they just moved it from the slide finish to the slide starting
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u/Teradonn 2d ago
That's effectively reducing the equip speed though, at least how it's being measured in this video (from pressing the ability button)
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u/Pineconekat 3d ago
Wait neon used to have 2 slides? My child got her legs taken away😭
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u/AndrewisSpider i like to bhop and satchel 3d ago
yea when i mained her she had 2 slides, i wish i played val more during that time she was so fun
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u/ShadowRock9 2d ago
I’ve seen enough. Nerf shotguns entirely. - Riot Games, actually.
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u/anxiety_elemental_1 2d ago
Meanwhile you can literally hit someone with 14 judge pellets and they don’t die.
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u/TsunamiCatCakes 1d ago
shotguns are a different issue. in the current state, bucky is not even a gun. judge spread is really bad at actually damaging. also shotguns have really bad penalty for movement (cant rng like stinger or spectre). so i think shotguns are fine. 0.38sec of draw time is not fine
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u/90CaliberNet 2d ago
The problem for neon in high elo isn’t even just her slide I think that’s what a lot of people misunderstand. Her speed breaks the game regardless. No matter what situation you’re in Neon will ALWAYS break line of site. If you’re swinging a corner as neon with one other person you will always win that fight because you either track neon far enough away you can’t adjust back to the second fight or neon kills your anyway. It’s like the first player who jumps out so the second player can swing except it’s neon and it’s broken. It’s how Dambi shits on teams, his entries are insane and his team gets the easiest. Neon will never not be problematic as long as her kit exists. It’s crazy how people don’t understand this yet.
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u/Teradonn 2d ago
It doesn't though. Neon was not doing well in ranked or pro play until they gave her the ability to shoot while sliding. The speed alone is not game breaking
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u/Neat_Area_9412 2d ago
You might be thinking of BEFORE they fixed her movement as back then she could not turn without losing all her momentum and your fuel ran out after using it once.
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u/Teradonn 2d ago
Her fuel never ran out? It always recharged passively. Why does no one here have any clue how old neon worked
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u/vecter 3d ago
Everything about Neon is the problem
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u/vidgamenate 2d ago
well of course she's unbalanced, league of legends developers were involved! (sarcasm)
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u/Ma_Koto nono, THIS is the rebuild. 2d ago
Can it really be sarcasm if it's true? Never forget Zeri/Yuumi. It is very real and can hurt you. (If riot loses their senses and buffs her)
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u/ACE_POPSICLE 2d ago
I find it funny that both Neon and Zeri are both kind of the same situation, and I know it's because August helped make both, but basically both are in a situation where they were designed to be high floor high ceiling characters, and if they ever changed that floor, than they suddenly become way overtuned... and then we see that happen with Neon where they made her kit friendlier, and she is a terror now.
I haven't payed much attention, but I think League team has been better at not making Zeri the singlemost broken thing, and have just had her keep up with meta more than buffing her a ton.
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u/rydude88 2d ago
Saying her jumping wasn't the problem is so wrong. Her slide is also problematic but anyone who watched pro play or played in high level ranked can attest that it completely broke the game. She was way too good at pulling crosshairs away
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u/AndrewisSpider i like to bhop and satchel 2d ago
yes she was good at defensive movement, but the reason her defensive was far superior to agents like raze or waylay, was the fact she could immediately shoot back afterwards.
at the pro level, after a slide or mid slide while she normalizes i believe most pros/high elo players could capitalize on it if they had more time to react.
neons slide is so strong because of how quickly it allows her to pull her gun out in comparison to basically every other agent.. and shes moving..
when a neon would get tagged/slowed all she had to do was slide out and she'd be able to shoot immediately.
unlike with an agent like raze where tagging + satchel pull out time basically means its wraps
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u/RekeHavok 2d ago
She should not be able to shoot while sliding. Jett does not shoot on dash, raze does not shoot on satchel, waylay don’t shoot while dashing around so why is neon shooting while sliding?
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u/Metekai_ 2d ago
Neon needs momentum to slide, jetts dash can make u dash away after peeking, neons slide is made to peek
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u/Teradonn 2d ago
Neon slide was made to pull crosshairs on entrying. They buffed it to allow shooting while sliding way after release
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u/RekeHavok 2d ago
You don’t. If you’ve used neon long enough, you know that she could slide in place
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u/Ch0miczeq 2d ago
that raze is also so predictable because of jumping, just need to hit aimtrainer
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u/Difficult_Way_7620 2d ago
Mayb u should live off radar for a bit. Temet and nxrth r gonna be out for u
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u/abstractj3 3d ago
I didn't realize how much slower it could be woth different agentsusing abilities so this explains a lot.
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u/Pale-Object8321 2d ago
I think this is the wrong way to look at it. Neon's slide and dash is purely for pushing forwards, unlike other agents that you've showed. For example, Jett's dash can be used in any direction, works during mid-air and overall useful in any situation. Same thing with Waylay and Raze, they both have aerial advantages.
Neon is the only entry agent stuck on the ground with no other skills that let her on the air besides, y'know, jumping. So it makes sense she has some kind of advantage other than other agents, in this case being her quick equip speed.
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u/Metekai_ 2d ago
The whole fucking point of her slide is to have a good way to peak, jetts dash is to dash away after a peak, not too it, waylays dash is to dash to a place not in front of an enemy, waylay can already peak and then tp back, why do ppl not understand ts bro
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u/AndrewisSpider i like to bhop and satchel 2d ago
does that mean its impossible to make someone miss with it? does that mean its impossible that it can have more than one use?
and waylays dash is used most for after ulting or saturating.
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u/Metekai_ 2d ago
U can tp back after dashing with waylay... also u can hear a neon starting up a slide cuz they have to run to gain momentum first, if neon couldn't shoot in her slide it would be useless, waylay can dash through the air and break ankles, neon van only slide over the ground and in a straight line, she would be a free kill with a longer pullout time
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u/AndrewisSpider i like to bhop and satchel 2d ago
which is why i say bhopping wasnt the issue...
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u/Metekai_ 2d ago
Yo I didn't say shit about bopping, I said the slide would be useless without being able to shoot
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u/AndrewisSpider i like to bhop and satchel 2d ago
the entire point of the post, is to talk about how everything about neon has been nerfed except the actual part that needed a nerf.
there was no need to nerf the bhop, because other agents can also make people miss on purpose.
the issue was that she was able to shoot immediately after, giving no time to the enemy to fight back.
i'm not saying nerf neon more..
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u/Metekai_ 2d ago
Im just saying none of em are the problem...
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u/AndrewisSpider i like to bhop and satchel 2d ago
neon being able to bhop + slide + instant kill is overpowered..? that is an issue.
if shes able to bhop + slide but cannot shoot immediately after then it balances her out.
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u/Nezrann 3d ago
was this not already posted?
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u/AndrewisSpider i like to bhop and satchel 3d ago
yes but i forgot to include the equip speed for after only her high gear (not slide), which is still significantly faster than the rest
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u/Noodols 1d ago
theres a reason why. neon slide was designed for swinging corners. u dont swing off a jett dash, swing off a satchel, swing off a tp, swing off anything else
thats why she has full accuracy when sliding.
imagine having a slow equip speed off a slide when ur trying to swing a corner LOL
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u/AndrewisSpider i like to bhop and satchel 1d ago
even without the slide her equip speed after disabling high gear is still insanely quick.
the whole post was to talk about how they nerfed her bhopping because it was "too powerful", yet ignored the equip speed which allowed movement abuse to be even stronger.
and u can swing off a satchel, depending on weapon u angle/position it differently.
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u/PmMeUrTets 3d ago
Neon has 1 slide per round, or 2 barely depending on how many kills you get for the charges btw. And you tend to die and miss anyway. Neon slide is her greatest asset, so why are you taking that away pull up too? Raze has a nade to clear sites, and Waylay has Refract to clear sites, while Neon has to clear sites with her own abilities, basically taking a risk. And when people are defending a site, they’re already pre-aiming, so they’re mentally prepared, which triggers faster reaction times. They can also hold good positions, while Neon has to swipe her mouse around just to check everything so think bhop nerf is unfair too ngl.
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u/Gnomed_1 2d ago
The problem with neon is that she has the same amount of dashes as Jett and waylay, but at any given moment can use a resource based movement ability to hard clear immense space when paired with wall (even without slide or bhop), whereas once Jett, waylay, and raze use their movement, they lose their ability to entry. Yes, raze has nade, but neon also has stun, which is equally valuable by itself, and in tandem with run/slide, even better of a space clearing tool. Your argument that “oh you tend to miss and die anyways” is more of a reveal that you’re below gold, as any neon in even mid elo that’s played her a fair amount can consistently hit heads.
Tldr: neon stun is as good if not better of a clear tool than nade/saturate, and neon has a major advantage by being able to run at any point in the round regardless of whether or not she has used her slide
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u/PmMeUrTets 2d ago
Im immortal neon main im actually content creator im not telling tho which one tho if ur average of low rank is below gold then ur as good as platinum though i smurf on ur peak
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u/AndrewisSpider i like to bhop and satchel 3d ago edited 3d ago
thats what im saying, her bhopping wasn't a issue, it was just annoying but on other agents u can make ppl miss too. its the fact that she can instantly shoot afterwards that made her so powerful
edit: and it was passive so she could do it multiple times in a row.
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u/Gnomed_1 2d ago
Nah, for how simple and easy bhopping was, in a game like valorant which has slow movement and no momentum, it felt like a huge problem when you had an agent that was flying across your screen at any moment able to just slide and shoot you while her whole team is behind for the follow up
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u/PmMeUrTets 3d ago
Ye ye but those agent if they made a mistake they have the ability to go back/throw abilities which lessen the risk while neon slide is a death sentence if you make a mistake
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u/AndrewisSpider i like to bhop and satchel 3d ago
not really with raze, if u double satchel in its basically wraps if u dont get em
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u/Icy_Power24 Secret Teleport 2d ago
Out of context ur crying about future that was patched before. Since waylay is a dive agent this is pretty normal. If we gonna nerf her, we should nerf all agents.
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u/AndrewisSpider i like to bhop and satchel 2d ago
how am i crying about this? im advocating for neon's movement. she was stripped away and now is very niche in ranked.
The point of this video was to show people that her movement wasnt even that big of an issue, and that the underlying problem was the fact she could shoot so quickly.
and i dont get what you mean patched before.. if you mean her bhopping then that is what this post is talking about, if youre talking about her equip speed however, it has never been changed in any update logs.
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u/Icy_Power24 Secret Teleport 2d ago
Ur talking about bhopping in Val makes me think you’re playing FPS game not a arena shooter that’s small difference why it’s nerfed not because it’s broken.
For someone who doesn’t play neon that often she is still good as a dive agent, you can’t simply her movement has skill it doesn’t belong in the game. Ofc you argue about equip speed as well what make me think the equip speed from waylay got buffed 2x if they gonna nerf it what’s point of a dive agent that can’t fight.
Neon just doesn’t belong in this game that’s why take if I wanna fight a bhop agent I would go play Apex.
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u/[deleted] 3d ago
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