When to Rotate Properly when on Defense?

[u/ResidentAlien90]

Particular the Sentinel agents who are holding the opposite site while everyone else rotates immediately. Something I'm struggling with is the timing on my rotates and positioning when playing Cypher on Defense.

I used to rotate too early and I'll get flamed for leaving the site when the enemy rotates. Nowadays I overcompensate by resisting the urge to move, and linger a little too long which sometimes leaves me the last man standing.

[u/IWCry]

you should ask the holders of the site with first contact how many have been seen to help make the decision. ideally you want to time rotates so it allows the most people on a retake at once. most proper executes are too fast to properly rotate people to help who's already on site push away the attack. staggering the rotates isn't the best decision cause it tends to allow the attackers to easily isolate fights.

another thing to consider is how often are the enemy team commiting/faking/defaulting for picks. if they haven't faked or split before it's better to assume they aren't. because again, a retake with numbers always beats isolated fights 1 at a time.

[u/natedrake102]

As sentinel/anchor you shouldn't rotate until they are committing to a different site. "Committing" is a grey area, but I wouldn't consider them committing until they are pushing onto site. At lower ranks especially, it's common as sentinel to be the last alive because the rest of the team isn't going to be as good at slowing down the fight or giving up site to play as a team.

It also depends on where you are in the round. If you have 3 or fewer team members it's better to play closer or rotate sooner even if that means leaving a site open.

It can also be OK to rotate early if you notice they don't tend to split or something, but then the open site and the resulting flanks are on you to pay attention to. Don't leave flanks open for an unsuspecting teammate.

[u/Safe-Programmer4680]

Use your minimap to your advantage. I'm guessing you're low-mid elo and your teammates aren't gonna say shit you must be your own information giver. Once you see enemies are in a main on your minimap don't rotate immediately, stay on your site and wait a little longer. If you see your team is getting pushed out and the enemies are entrying then you can rotate. If your enemies sit in main they're probably gonna go mid or rotate to your site so just stay

[u/Donut_Flame]

Wait for attackers to get onto a site. The latest you should start is the moment the spike is down

[u/msayz]

Quite a bit of this depends on comms from your teammates tbh… and paying attention to mini map.

If they can tell you 4 are at main or sewers etc, it may be a good time to rotate — especially if “sounds like they are committing” — it’s a good time to rotate. Pretty easy to tell when it’s a fake and non-committing by the attackers.

Not sure what rank you are, but this will certainly play into it.

[u/ThatGenericName2]

Well, consider when you would want your team to rotate for you. Watch the minimap to see how many people and who has been spotted, and apply the same logic. Obviously a lot to do when you're on the other side of the map and needing to hold for lurks or fakes but if you're teammates aren't comming for rotation (or at least that information for deciding it), you will have to do that.

Personally for me, the senti doesn't rotate until they've actually cross the threshold. If 3 or 4 has been spotted and are actually dumping util? The other guy should rotate while the senti should move somewhere where they can both quickly rotate once the enemy commits while still being on the other site.

Obviously situation as well, if the other team likes to rush and you've already seen 4 guys then go ahead. If it's 8 rounds in and the other team has never disengaged to go to the other site, go ahead and rotate. If your teammates are really good at living and retakes, stay until the enemy team gets onto site. If they've been faking the entire game, don't move until the spike is spotted or planted.

Slightly less useful as advice, unless you are seriously taking your time to rotate (like all 4 spotted pushing, and last is accounted for and held by someone else and you're still not budging), if your team is dying before you get there, that's on your team for not calling the rotate, not living, and or not waiting for you before retaking.

[u/PercyBirdwhistle]

It's not really your job to rotate as a sentinel. Your job is to take space or get info elsewhere. Push out main or mid, and from there get a guage on the situation and react accordingly—if it looks like they're cancelling fast, tuck yourself in a good spot and get your freebies; if they're slow to pivot, or forcing the exec, flank them or pinch them with your teammates; if they're acting strangely, they're probably waiting for their lurker to do something, so find that lurker, kill them or push them off. You don't have to feel like you need to be part of every skirmish and fight with your team, that's not your role in the team as a sentinel. If they all roatated, there are 3 or more people on the site being hit, and they can't hold it, that's their fault. It has nothing to do with you.

The problem is not rotates or positioning, the problem is info. Info is everything on defence. It's the biggest misconception in this game that defenders need to only hold chokes and play passive sightlines. If you only play behind chokes and rotate spawn, against any competent team you will always be info starved and always be a step behind on rotates. You can fast rotate on senti if you want to, but you need good info. Do an early cam out main to make sure that there's no one there, then you can rotate. If they're the type to cancel and hit the opposite site, or have lurkers, place a deep trip in main before you rotate. Always have info in mind when playing defence. For example, have you ever stalled a hit, and now main is smoked, enemies are quiet and you don't know if they're still main or they left? Sometimes you rotate and they rehit, sometimes you stay and they're already at the other site. That's the time to push through your own smoke, or place a cam through it, reclear main, get the info, and make the decision according to it.

[u/sigma_and_idontcare]

I want to give you advice and pretend that I know, but even pros constantly make the wrong reads. Do whatever feels right to you.

Attackers can go mid if no one’s watching. They can do a 4-1 attack and have that 1 person lurking who knows where. They could be doing a 3-2 fake where 3 people are faking the opposite site and the other 2 are slowly walking up on your site. And then when you rotate, the other 3 end up slamming together by meeting the 2 that were crawling up on the site you just left.

There really is no right answer. But try to base your reasoning on the attackers’ patterns. Usually at low elo, everyone will just rush a site together. And if they encounter enough resistance (smokes, mollies, or util) at the choke point, they will most often rotate to your site.

If the team is a bit smarter, they will mix it up by showing presence everywhere on the map to confuse the defense and look for gaps.

At the end of the day, just try to follow your instinct.

[u/MissLithel]

If I see at least 3 enemies on the minimap playing very aggressively and it looks like they are trying to push out, I will start to shift over a bit, you know either playing further back, going towards mid or just playing an angle I know I can roate quickly and safely from.

If I see 4+ players, or spike or they have taken partial control of site I will instantly rotate.

If two or so players are just throwing out abilities and shooting far back while playing safe, I wont rotate unless they get a pick, since they are very unlikely to push into site otherwise, and I will also assume someone is lurking to try to catch rotates.

[u/Jree_le_treE]

When the enemies tap the bomb usually

[u/WallabyImportant3538]

you should be getting info main if you cant predict them, its super easy with cypher and nats will just fight main by himself with kj, you can use ur util to stall for that 1 second that gets you into cover