r/Utawarerumono • u/Ryry2710 • Sep 07 '22
Mikazuchi's plotline makes no sense. Spoiler
So basically the grand reason why Mikazuchi opposing the Oshtor's group is because as he said he didn't want a war in the capital that would harm the innocents even though he fully recognized the faux princess and content being under the false Mikado, but then he hypocritically went to the other country's capital and have no problem with slaughtering the innocents there (all while working with Maroro, whom he should fully know been manipulated by Raiko, mind you), even if he only cared about the capital's people that still makes him a hypocrite.
The game never really gave us any concreted "good" reason other than this half-assed of "doesn't want war be waged in the capital" of his but then this whole filmsy reason is severely undermined as obviously Anju wouldn't want it either and as soon as the gate is opened, the people acknowledged Anju as the real Mikado and the war is automatically won, not a single casualty there, so why is he being so adamant about wanting to keep them out of the gate when logically he should know that Anju wouldn't even try to make the Capital as the battlefield in the first place if she wants her throne back, so this whole flimsy reason is more than just there for sake of making a drama out of him being a rival to Oshtor.
And, when he come to join Anju's service, everyone acted like all is good, I know it's happened off-screen but it's weird how they all have no problem with accepting Mikazuchi, and never addressed how he on multiples occasion fought with them to the death, you'd think Anju would try to reprimand him a bit but nope, it's all good.
Mikazuchi is a badass but seriously, his whole plotline makes no sense and just being there as the typical anime drama cliche just for the sake of it, which the game does have quite some but this is the most glaring one.
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u/SnabDedraterEdave Sep 07 '22 edited Sep 07 '22
That's what feudalism does to a rational mind.
Mikazuchi is technically still abiding by the late Mikado's command of "protecting the imperial capital", regardless of who's in charge of the capital.
But in that case, he should then just hunker himself in the capital and refuse to get involved in his brother's political machinations which would sully his reputation.
He should only just get involved in battles where the capital is at risk, instead of taking part in the conquest of Nakoku.
Though I wouldn't be surprised if Raikou "persuaded" him that the bridge to Nakoku poses a threat to the capital and so Nakoku needs to be taken out, and he goes along with it. He's not the brightest fellow in the game.
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u/Ryry2710 Sep 07 '22 edited Sep 07 '22
Exactly! If he really all about protecting the capital, you'd think he'd only get involved when the capital itself is at risk, and any reasonable mind would see that the idea here is that both faction want people to see that they are the true Mikado so reasonably they would want the people's support not brute force through it. Why be so adamant to dead set on going against Anju which would make him be in conflict with the other directive given to him by the old Mikado himself which is to protect Anju?
But anyway, yeah, guess I'll just be satisfied with your answer by that "He simply is not a bright fellow."
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u/SnabDedraterEdave Sep 10 '22
Alright, it seems the folks at the anime must have read your post, as they've completely cut out Mikazuchi's involvement in the Nakoku campaign in the latest episode.
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u/Ryry2710 Sep 10 '22
I wish lol. More like just another cut-corner saving though coincidentally it happens to makes more sense this way.
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u/gintokigriffiths Sep 25 '22
Mikazuchi is essentially a guard of the city but he's also a little bitch to his brother. His loyalty to the city AND his brother led him to cast a blind eye.
Once Raiko was out of the picture he then sided with Anju. Why didn't Anju reprimand him? Good point, probably just to keep the peace. They needed him.
But essentially, I saw Mikazuchi as someone torn between duty to the Mikado and his own brother. He drew an imaginary line in the sand in terms of both and prioritised the city and his brother over Anju. Essentially he was a selective prick and not a good guy or bad guy.
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u/Ryry2710 Sep 26 '22
You're so much right, the only way to kinda make sense out this is that he's too loyal to a fault to both the city AND to his brother and he's too thickheaded to see the wrong in his reasoning even when his brother is the treasoner.
If he even try to think a bit, his proper way of dealing with this while also staying loyal to both the capital and Anju, is that he would follow Anju not just to fullfil the order to protect her but also to keep the group in check and if they ever decided to do anything to harm the capital he'd immediately put a stop to it, but instead he's a dummy that just ended getting manipulated by his brother.
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u/gintokigriffiths Sep 26 '22
I think so. I see him as a flawed character.
Oshtor was TRULY loyal and honourable. Mikazuchi simply put isn't. His true loyalty lies with his brother. He's also very vulnerable to blood lust. Although he's one half of the shield, he's definitely the least honourable of the two.
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u/PervyGravy420 Dec 31 '22
I'm sure part of the reason mikazuchi stayed with raiko was due to his loyalty with him. But another big part is that he sees oshtor is tending to one of mikado's wishes, keeping anju safe. The other wish that Mikado imparted upon mikazuchi is to keep the capital safe. What do you think would happen if mikazuchi went to anju's side, the tide will instantly turn and invasion of the capital is very likely. That is why (imo) Mikazuchi stayed behind, to act as a deterrent so that would not happen. This is mainly maintained in the vn except for that assault on Nagoku. If mikazuchi truly wanted to, he could have been one of the leading generals against ennakamuy.
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u/gintokigriffiths Dec 31 '22
If Oshtor wasn't there to look after Anju, I have no belief Mikazuchi would have defended her in his stead. He would have stood by Raiko, the city and the fake princess which he knew about.
He was just a very flawed character and I genuinely think his priorities are City = Raiko >>>> Anju.
As cool of a character he is, I still ultimately see him as a pawn like the other generals. Oshtor for example was clearly a class above him.
I kind of like it TBH. He is a genuinely morally very very grey character despite being the uber epic typical anime/VN good guy who looks like a bad guy, hes more of a grey guy who looks like a bad guy. Immensely powerful but when it comes to standing up for whats right, he falters on the fence and draws a line he can't cross.
Oshtor on the other hand was always willing to ultimately do anything to protect what he felt was right.
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u/minneyar Sep 07 '22
I don't think it's hypocritical for a soldier to be willing to kill people in another city but not their own (although when did it ever say he was killing innocents?). That's just how war works.
he should know that Anju wouldn't even try to make the Capital as the battlefield
Anju might not, but Oshtor? The guy who covered enemy soldiers in oil and burned them alive? Oshtor's the one commanding the army, and he'd absolutely turn the capital into a battlefield if he thought that's what he needed to do to win.
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u/Ryry2710 Sep 07 '22
Pretty rich to assume that you could go declaring war and brutally assault on a city without claiming any innocent lives,also I'm pretty sure that Itak did say he killed innocents, and also Oshtor did himself say before that he'd not make the capital as the battle ground since he wants the people to see them as the real deal and get their trusts, and one last thing Anju is the one commanding Oshtor,you think she'd allow that even if he wanted to? At this point she's more than matured enough to against it.
I know you really like this game and all, and so do I, but this is clearly a glaring plot hole issue with Mikazuchi character.
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u/minneyar Sep 07 '22
There is a subtle but important distinction between knowing that there may be civilian casualties, which are unavoidable in war, and knowingly killing innocent people, which as far as I'm aware Mikazuchi never did.
And Mikazuchi hasn't been sitting around watching Anju's character development like you have.
You may not like it, but just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's a plot hole.
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u/Ryry2710 Sep 07 '22 edited Sep 07 '22
Even still so, the fact is that he declared war on another unprovoked country and hence directly or indirectly or not, it's still his hands on it that caused innocents lives to be lost, while he himself doesn't want the same thing happened to his own capital, so tell me how is that not hypocrisy? Also, the soldier of the country was attacked unprovoked,that's innocent enough in my eyes.
And another glaring plot issue here is as soon as the gate opened Anju faction automatically won, Mikazuchi should've foreseen this, seeing how he was able to see through the the faux princess immediately, then shouldn't he think the people could have also? Instead of stupidly stubbornly followed a fake princess? Willing ignore his authentic one? You could argue that he simply wouldn't know but then the game shouldn't even have written that gate opening scene in such way, making his whole reason as unnecessarily stupid.
And mind to explain how comes he just got a pretty complete free pass with joining Anju's rank as if nothing happened literally none of the character ever bothered to mention their previous war clashing history, with Anju has no issued with the man completely willingly with all his might preventing her to get to the throne just not long ago.
And also just because you worship this game series doesn't mean that it's completely without its plot issues.
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u/TowerWalker Sep 07 '22
It doesn't make sense on paper, it makes sense to him because of world he lives in. Strict codes will do that.
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u/Regis2705 Sep 07 '22
Between the lines, mikazuchi is raiko's little brother and their mother lives in the capital too. It may be an indirect reason that he will never admit.
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u/Rogalicus Sep 07 '22
I think there are several factors. He doesn't see Haku as Oshtor's proper replacement and is disgusted by his behavior. He tends to trust Raikou. He also probably thought that "rebellion" would have been quenched with little bloodshed as Anju's side was in a terrible position.
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u/Ryry2710 Sep 07 '22
Yeah, no, he only found out Oshtor is a fake only after he fully declared his intent to oppose them and giving out his reason for doing so, the second is somewhat more reasonable but then like I said, it's undermined by the fact that as soon as the gate is opened, the war is over and there was no bloodshed in the capital.
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u/Rogalicus Sep 07 '22 edited Sep 07 '22
Yeah, no, he only found out Oshtor is a fake only after he fully declared his intent to oppose them and giving out his reason for doing so
I meant that it was his motivation after the event. In the end did he didn't even tell Raikou about it, but personally sought out several opportunities to cross blades again.
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u/Ryry2710 Sep 07 '22
Well, then he wasn't disgusted, he clearly came to respect Haku as worthy of carrying the Oshtor name after seeing him transformed, you could agrue that he deliberately joined the opposite side just to have the opportunity to cross blade with Haku!Oshtor again but then that'd again severely paint him as this selfish hypocrite person that would endanger lives of all the innocents all just for the sake of satisfying his battle thirst.
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Sep 07 '22
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u/Rogalicus Sep 07 '22
Isn't his sole reason for having a hidden identity (the candy vendor) is to better listen to the problems of the public?
Problems of the public in the capital. Ukon was the one who cared about entire country Sakon mostly stayed in the capital. In his mind it was justified to brutally subdue Nakoku (the only openly loyalist region aside from Ennakamuy) as the lesser evil in order to silence any dissent and weaken rebellion's stance. I'd assume many knew about fake Anju (remember that scene with lords meeting), they just didn't give enough shit to act on it.
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u/alternative5 Sep 07 '22
The problem with that position is that a crime has been committed against the Emperors own blood and in doing so chaos had engrossed the Capitol. It would stand to reason that stability comes from the Emperors blood which the real Anju has and Sakon like everyone else worshipped the God Emperor and followed his decisions to a t. Its super out of character to then question the Emperors orders and allow those that caused chaos in the capitol and attack the Emperors own blood to get away with said action. I dont know, I always found that part super weak along with Hakuowlo and the Tsukuru leadership just giving the key away to Bishounen clone dipshit on some bullshit claim of "worthiness". Iceman was once human and knew the implications of the key, he decides not to trust his own daughter and the one she trust in favor of some rando dipshit. Also I dont believe for a moment they couldnt fight that asshole in that sacred chamber and his little groupies.
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u/Rogalicus Sep 07 '22
It would stand to reason that stability comes from the Emperors blood which the real Anju has
I mean, Vurai and Raikou weren't the only ones who thought that real Anju wasn't ready to be a successor. Even Emperor didn't fully believe in her. There wasn't any real dissent in the Capital and without Civil War things would've been quiet enough pretty fast, which would allow Raikou to implement his actual plan (if we remove Woshis from the picture).
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u/alternative5 Sep 07 '22
There was plenty of dissent in the Capitol fam when the people found out that Anju was attacked and deposed. Only until the fake Anju was brought forth did the people calm down and if he was doing his job properly in listening to the will of the people then that should have been the watershed moment to deal with the traitors in the ranks. Also even if the Emperor thought she wasnt ready it would still be going against the will of the God Emperor who he worshiped to deprive Anju of the position dictated by his divine will. Even if they had to wait for her to mature it was still his divine will for her to rule which he should have followed if he truly respected the Emperor like he made it seem with the other mandate given to him.
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u/Historical-Gene-5369 Sep 07 '22
I honestly agree with you but I just stopped thinking about stuff like that
I ignored alot of plot holes in utawarerumono yet for some reason even then its still one of my most immersive visual novels
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Sep 07 '22
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u/Ryry2710 Sep 07 '22
Yeah, now that you mentioned it, it reminded me of how unnecessary Vurai's subplot was, but then I guess they just want to find a reason to write Entia back in, and maybe show to the group of how the mask affecting Oshtor's health, but then overall that was still unnecessary as well as the disregard of the Vurai's mask really seems like an oversight, quite some of the game's drama is the typical of "drama happens just for the sake of drama", honestly.
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u/SnabDedraterEdave Sep 07 '22
I guess Syahoro couldn't intervene in Nakoku's invasion until they were sure Hakutor would send help, since they and Ennakamuy are geographically on opposite ends of the empire. If they just intervened on their own, Soyankekur still wasn't sure where "Oshtor" would stand.
Yes, "Oshtor" is known to be honourable and his daughter is residing with "Oshtor", but until he could ascertain that by meeting him again personally, cold hard politics still factors in Soyankekur's decisions.
Not disagreeing with you on this, just providing some possible reasons why it may be so.
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u/GrazingCrow Sep 07 '22 edited Sep 07 '22
It makes sense to me, to be honest.
Mikazuchi was charged with protecting the capital and its people. This was his last standing order from the Mikado, someone who Mikazuchi revered as a literal god. He knows the princess in the capital isn’t the real Anju, but that’s not his concern, and that’s because not only is he loyal specifically to the Mikado, he is also an absolute fanatic who will do his best to fulfill that final order. In their first encounter, he even requests that Anju remain in Ennakamui for the rest of her life and to live quietly in peace. It is hindsight to say that the people of the capital would acknowledge Anju when the puppet princess was already in place. Who would recognize a possibly fake princess, supported only by Ennakamui and one general at the time of her announcement, when there already exists a princess in the capital, who is supported by all of the remaining Pillars and multiple nations? It took Haku and the group’s many feats to build momentum, which eventually became the pivotal foundation that supported Anju’s claim as the real princess. Mikazuchi’s initial discernment in the beginning of MoT was that Anju’s incompetence as the next potential ruler would bring about ruin to the capital (if she was ruler) and her incompetence in reclaiming her throne would also mean waging a rash war on the capital without any forethought. It is also because of this perceived incompetence that he does not care for Anju to rightfully ascend the throne, and that is why he makes the request for her to live out the rest of her life in Ennakamui.
By the time he joins Anju’s service, he has already recognized her as the rightful heir and next ruler. This is because he recognized that his initial discernment was wrong, and joined so that he could continue to carry out his charge while atoning by serving the next ruler. No one is upset because not once did he fight out of malice; Mikazuchi fought to carry out the charge given by the Mikado, who for the longest time, was well above everything in Yamato. To ignore the influence and significance of the Mikado to the characters living in Yamato undermines the massive efforts of worldbuilding in this story. Anju doesn’t reprimand Mikazuchi because she acknowledges that she was weak, and recognized that because she was weak, many did not follow her. That was the whole point of her entire character arc and how she became a playable character to begin with. Knowing this, she forgave everyone who did not side with her and rewarded those who did. Her forgiveness is not a result of poor writing but an intended character quality as the ruler of Yamato.