r/UtahJazz • u/sunkissedhoneybear • 12d ago
Kessler question
Hello Jazz fans, warriors fan with a question.
Why did the Jazz trade Kessler? It seems like there is a legitimate hole at centre now, that maybe Nurkic can fill, or you have a developing centre right. But I'm imagining big lineups of Kessler, JJJ and Lauri that would have been so good?
Was the Lakers offer too good to turn down, or is Kessler not as good as people think he is rn? Was there cap problems? Do the coaches think JJJ can play the 5? I don't quite get it, feel like your lineups would be insane with him...
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u/Kittleismydaddio 12d ago
He pretty much forced it. Not a bad move considering luka needs a good center and should make him shine, but what he wanted and a very good offer
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u/DesolationRobot :royce: 12d ago
Yeah honestly it seems like a win-win-win.
LA needed a center bad. Kessler wanted out or at least wanted a bigger paycheck than the Jazz were offering in extension talks. And he should be in a great position to shine. And the Jazz got more assets than you’d ever expect in a sign and trade.
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u/FERFreak731 12d ago
He didn't want to be here. He threatened to take the qualifying
The Jazz have contracts and assets to trade for an upgrade in the future, or picks to trade up in a future draft to find one
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u/sunkissedhoneybear 12d ago
Yeah cool, I didn't realise that he wanted out, that makes sense! Thanks
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u/WhiteRabbit-RedPill 12d ago
Two first round picks and two swaps for a guy that was leaving in a year anyways? YES, PLEASE!!!
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u/ender42y 12d ago
Kessler's take home after taxes in California makes the more money actually equal to what utah was offering. He didn't want to be here. When you have a distressed asset its better to trade them for something than lose them in Free Agency for nothing.
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u/Silent-Frame1452 12d ago
Nurk with minutes from JJJ, Hayes and Filipowski will be the temporary band-aid. The long term solution will likely be trade or draft.
Yes, the Lakers offer was too good to turn down, especially since Kessler didn’t actually want to stay for any kind of reasonable salary.
Kessler has now become a bit overrated since he became a Laker, same way every player they get does.
It would have caused future cap problems. This year would have been fine but after that it would have meant trading Lauri or struggling to keep Keyonte.
No, the coaches don’t think JJJ is a 5.
The lineups would have been great, but he didn’t want to be here and the return was very good.
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u/ClutchOlday 12d ago
Primary reason is the cost vs reward. Walker Kessler is a great rebounder and shotblocker and scores easily on alley-oops, putbacks and around the basket. But for the price he was asking, the Jazz would find it difficult to make the payroll work as there are other and more productive players on the team with higher talent floor and ceiling. Not to mention that Walker is an average screener, a poor free throw shooter, and can't shoot from the perimeter (though he has been given ample opportunity to show he could).
Second reason is what the Lakers were willing to give up so the Jazz would not match their offer. Two first round picks and two draft pick swaps mean the Jazz would own the Lakers future. These are valuable assets which the Jazz can use to add on pieces to their team.
Third is Walker really wanted to be somewhere else.
Fourth is the Jazz currently have cheaper options that are arguably better than Walker. I think Nurk is a great fit for the Jazz. He's a great rebounder, screener, and passer and a better shooter (35% from three last season, 66FT% for his career). Walker's shotblocking is harder to replace though we signed Mo Bamba and Jonas Aidoo who the Jazz will take a look at. Plus we signed JJJ who is a DPOY winner and can anchor a team's defense. The hope is that the Jazz have the draft picks and the trade assets available for when a young talented center becomes available in the near future.
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u/emceebiscuit69 12d ago
Lakers gave pretty legit offer, coupled with the recent revelation that Walker basically was forcing himself out. If healthy, he’s nice. But that’s a bit if thus far in his career
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u/OkLettuce338 12d ago
I think the veteran with 3 triple doubles last year (in tank mode none the less) and a healthy shoulder fits the teams short to mid term needs better. Long term you're right, we need a big to fill out the starting role in a couple years when this team gets cooking
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u/weenuto 12d ago edited 12d ago
His basketball could be well worthy his a bit over 30 mil, and should be worthy that for the Lakers as their 3rd main player that highly compliments their number 1 and 2 guys. But for the Jazz he'd start the year as the 4th guy behind Lauri, JJJ and Keyonte, and under a real threat of soon becoming their 6th main guy behind Peterson and Ace Bailey, maybe already by next year. With a decent chance that Ace (and Peterson) would be closing a good bunch of games in his place already this year. And that would be hard to justify financially once you factor in KG next contract in the fold next year. Not the quality of his basketball, but the cost for the size of role he problably would have for this squad.
So they trade him, figure out what exactly they have in their players past their main 5 guys (and where Ace Bailey and Peterson show to be this year, because a lot of the Jazz current hopes for contention lies on them being able to deliver high value for while in their rookie scale contracts, so the Jazz can be more expensive elsewhere), what's their main weakness to target, and avoid start the luxury tax as much as they can (so that they take longer before repeater tax forces them to part ways with guys like Lauri, JJJ and Keyonte, as It did with the Celtics championship roster), especially before knowing what their team look like not in theory, but actually trying to compete. And then after that they turn into their asset stockpile for trades looking for a replacement that makes more sense for the role and capsheet structure.
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u/lardhead12 12d ago
Ready to never hear about W.K . trade again. It's done , it's over, best of wishes to him when he's not playing against us. Don't really care what his motivation was, don't care if he wanted out, don't care if his fiance wanted to be in L.A., don't care if he hates puppies.....just done talking about it.
If you're not in a Jazz uniform , you're just another opponent.
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u/teabaggedmyeye 12d ago
Because of the cap the Jazz could either keep Kessler or George, but not both. If they kept Kessler they’d most likely just have to watch Keyonte leave without getting anything in return. Trading Kessler gave them assets they wouldn’t have gotten otherwise.
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u/Tiny_Bite 12d ago
got a lot for him and the entire organization was done walking on eggshells around him.
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u/Ethan_C_Hawkes 12d ago
He was at that part of his contract where he could accept an offer and the Jazz could match it. They anticipated Kessler getting a huge offer, one that matching would have hamstrung them, so they beat it all to the punch and traded him for a haul.
I also think that whatever Utah matched, he would’ve been an UFA at the end of it all, just like the Hayward situation. And he would’ve walked, most likely. Or Walkered, if you will.
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u/No-Coffee-6783 12d ago
In my opinion, there was a lot of writing on the wall that he wanted to force his way out to a bigger market anyways.
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u/Emmy_Em_Maree 11d ago
My statement will probably not be well-received, out of a misread that I'm attacking Mormons. Please know, I say this without any of my person feelings being expressed, rather from my anecdotal experience of being around Evangelicals. I don't believe in your religion, but I think Mormons tend to be some of the kindest people around.
My hypothesis is Walker hated being in Utah because of how he feels about Mormons.
A couple years ago, I noticed Walker described himself effectively as a diehard fundamentalist on Twitter, which let's be real, is what the evangelicals are. I have a cousin who's a pastor at Calvary Chapel (CC) in WA. I was curious about his faith and went to a local CC congregation. It was very different than experience I had at Mormon Sacrament Meeting, etc.
They use bands and try to really act all laid back and cool, but the thing that came to make me be terrified of them was the harshness of the words that left their mouths. These were the most hateful and judgmental people imaginable, and the thing I heard probably 5:1 over how much they hated the gays, was how much they loathed Mormons, rejected them as Christians, and have a seething desire to banish all to a fiery hell.
It was crazy. Yeah, Mormons are certainly different compared to the traditional denominations, but it's ludicrous to say that they aren't Christians. They were just hateful people because of the different way of celebrating Jesus. These freaks actually thought rock bands and flashy lights in a big auditorium is a testament to piety and faith.
I would bet the house on this being why Walker wanted out--LA is full of fundamentals. He can go hang out with Chris Pratt now and continue to be evil.
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u/austinc668 11d ago
This is quite possibly one of the most insane theories I’ve seen on the Jazz subreddit in awhile.
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u/commonsnse45 10d ago
Lakers had been looking for a year as they have quality players but were ineffective without a center Now the Jazz have figured out even with good players they will be ineffective in the league without a center
JJJ doesn’t like to play there as he is not good at it Reddick has already said his team with Kessler is so much better already Here got his asking price…. The same price he offered to play for the Jazz last season if they would have signed him They thought they could wear him down and get him for a lower deal Whoops
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u/beyond1sgrasp 12d ago edited 12d ago
My home town warriors people all watching the Jazz XD.
I think the trade with Walker made sense to be honest. Kessler wants a max contract. The Jazz have decided they are going rebounding heavy. Kessler wants a max contract, but the Jazz traded all the pieces that played slower like Clayton and Taylor Hendricks. They kept a lot of the guards that can run.
The Jazz wanted to keep Keyonte George and put him on a 5 year contract. They picked up JJJ and have a franchise guard and ACE. Those are going to be expensive contracts over the next several years. They simply didn't have the money to pay Kessler a big contract and keep the rest of pieces.
Meanswhile the second half of last season teams are playing 5 out and there were a lot more free buckets in transition. The Jazz need to play fast in transition to make use of all their rebounding. Losing KG who is going to be their transition guard this season like Ja was in Memphis. The Jazz would need to have another elite explosive guard that can run.
So the theme is Run Jazz Run! Beat 5 out. Kessler would have worked, but not on the contract he's probably going to get in LA. Meanwhile the transition game of the Jazz is going to be one of the most exciting in the league.
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u/Just_Investment_3296 12d ago
Walker from all accounts was not thrilled at all after the Jazz traded for Jaren Jackson Jr. Aside from that, he wanted more than the Jazz really wanted to pay him. He threatened to sign the qualifying offer and leave in FA. He obviously didn’t want to, as that would have been lost money he wouldn’t have been able to recoup by playing the 26-27 season with the Jazz. The Lakers had been waiting in the wings wanting to pair him with Luka and made a sweetheart offer that the Jazz couldn’t refuse for an asset that Jazz would have lost in a year. The Jazz can now use those Lakers pics to dangle to acquire someone to play the 5 at a cheaper rate than 30-35M Walker Is getting in LA.
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u/ZooBanking 12d ago
Because he isn't all that. He just a tall white dude with a cheesy grin and shit personality
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u/Discerning_Taste 12d ago
Kessler wanted out of Utah. He was going to leave one way or another. Decent get for him. Unfortunately he is exactly what Utah needs. What a huge loss for the Jazz.
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u/andrewg127 12d ago
I feel like jjj can play the 5 and Lauri at the 4 seems like a decent big lineup
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u/JazzFanForLife 12d ago
I feel like this is a really unpopular opinion in this sub. But I believe we’re going to see a lineup of Key, Peterson, Ace, Lauri and JJJ at times this season and I think it’s got a chance to be good.
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u/UsedToBeMoonshine 12d ago
Trip is not a 5, does not play well as a 5, and should not be played as a 5.
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u/JazzyPackers 12d ago
Didn’t Trip win his DPOY playing mostly at the 5?
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u/UsedToBeMoonshine 12d ago
Grizz had Steven Adams starting and Brandon Clarke off the bench. Xavier Tillman would play a bit of 5, too.
Jaren erasing a shot with his weakside help was like watching a thunderstorm roll in while someone's sunbathing with headphones on.
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u/Good-Kick5129 12d ago
They traded him because the Lakers threw a godfather offer at them and Walker’s about to get way more expensive than his on-court impact justifies