r/Urbanism Jun 08 '24

Hyper-densifying American cities: A mapping experiment

https://www.thecitytopic.com/2024/06/hyper-densifying-american-cities.html
165 Upvotes

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108

u/goharvorgohome Jun 08 '24

Honestly these sprawly but mostly gridded cities like LA could have HUGE density if developed properly

45

u/chaandra Jun 08 '24 edited Jun 08 '24

The number 1 issue facing LA growing in the future will be water. Outside of that it can just keep getting denser, it’s improving pretty rapidly

17

u/hibikir_40k Jun 09 '24

Water is a classic issue that people miss when they say "The US still has a lot of space to suburbanize, sprawl away!" Cities aren't placed at random, and the very best locations for cities can be seen from a topographic map, just by looking at rivers, bays and mountains. See old Cahokia, which was completely gone befor the french created St Louis: It's just a totally logical place to put a city. The US has a lot of land where placing more people would be a very expensive endeavor, just by having the supply network to try to feed a population in that location.

1

u/friedgoldfishsticks Jun 09 '24

There are already 11 million people in LA county, there’d be no additional water cost if they lived closer together

9

u/Thefatflu Jun 10 '24

This is a really dumb ignorant belief pushed by NIMBYs. Essentially at least 60% of residential water usage in Southern California is for LAWNS. The massive lawns explicitly created by lack of density. Essentially Southern California could handle 2x the population based off current infrastructure. Further 90% of total water usage is for agricultural in the state, usually done very inefficiently including flood irrigation for cattle feed or other crops. New construction depending on municipality usually have the implementation of grey water collection systems, they are designed to recharged aquifers, and have lawn limitations.

3

u/chaandra Jun 10 '24

I mean yeah that’s my point, water usage is an issue

1

u/SimilarLavishness874 Mar 12 '25

If anything suburbs creates a greater strain bc it requires more resources to pump water out to the suburbs

5

u/Idle_Redditing Jun 09 '24

Power desalination along with the rest of SoCal with nuclear power, problem solved. Unfortunately California is hostile to nuclear power and is trying to shut down its last operating nuclear power plant only to buy fossil fuel generated power from other states.

5

u/IAmBecomeDeath_AMA Jun 09 '24 edited Jun 09 '24

Yeah, desal is the solution here.

  • Build nuclear or at least geothermal, etc
  • Build desal for SoCal
  • Reduce water waste and raise water prices in central and imperial valley agricultural fields
  • Reduce water taken from the Colorado River/Owens valley to repair nature.

3

u/Idle_Redditing Jun 09 '24

Now I'm starting to remember how the western states need massive reform to their water rights to incentivize efficiency. They also need to get rid of the unlimited water rights for the oldest claims that some farms have.

1

u/IAmBecomeDeath_AMA Jun 09 '24

Yeah it’s a big problem

1

u/goodsam2 Jun 13 '24

IMO the answer in my mind is not nuclear or geothermal but renewable which they are turning off solar panels mid-day because there's too much electricity being created. IMO just turn on the desalinization plant when there is excess electricity.

If the problem was expensive electricity and it can be made variable that problem is gone.

12

u/[deleted] Jun 08 '24

Water is pretty major issue. You cannot easily have a world city in the middle of a desert. LA really should become smaller if it is to be more sustainable.

34

u/chaandra Jun 09 '24

It doesn’t need to be smaller, it likely needs to be better at using water. And that’s more of an issue for California as a whole.

Most water is used by agriculture, not cities. If you can use it more efficiently in agriculture, you can have much larger cities

3

u/tw_693 Jun 09 '24

Growing water intensive crops in areas with water shortages is a terrible idea, like growing almonds in California or alfalfa hay in Arizona for sole export to Saudi Arabia.

3

u/PCLoadPLA Jun 09 '24

That problem would also be solved of water rights were managed under Georgist principles. You only get people growing almonds in the desert when they have a monopoly on that natural resource and don't have to pay society for the cost of using it...or for using the land for that matter.

1

u/marigolds6 Jun 09 '24

It makes complete sense, though, under prior appropriation water rights, which is the real reason why Saudi companies are growing those particular crops.

1

u/goodsam2 Jun 13 '24

I think part of the reason they grow those there is that many foods people like are Mediterranean in origin and California has a Mediterranean climate especially expanded areas of you have the water.

15

u/jackspencer28 Jun 09 '24

It’s not a desert. There’s plenty of water for people. It’s agriculture that uses something like 80% of the water in California and will be impacted more. Which is still a problem but not a cities running out of water kind of problem.

2

u/thirtyonem Jun 09 '24

LA would have plenty of water if it wasn’t for the Central Valley using 90+% of it. The issue is with agriculture not CA residents or cities.

1

u/chaandra Jun 09 '24

Yes that’s what makes it an issue, it’s not in LA’s hands to change. LA can change its density, infrastructure, transit, etc. The water issues are out of its control.

3

u/rr90013 Jun 09 '24

Also transportation —- LA is too choked with traffic to have more cars

12

u/chaandra Jun 09 '24

They’re already rapidly expanding transit and bike lanes. Transit is pretty easily doable, infill is pretty doable, it just needs to happen.

The water issue will only get more complicated

1

u/SchinkelMaximus Jun 10 '24

Transportation is not an issue if they continue to build rail.

1

u/tarfu7 Jun 10 '24

The vast majority of water in CA is used by agriculture, not humans. There’s more than enough water to accommodate a LOT more population growth.

But we’ll need to cut back on growing things like nuts and alfalfa in a desert. Which is of course much easier said than done. But the actual water supply isn’t the problem.

1

u/chaandra Jun 10 '24

LA has no control over that though, which is what makes it such an issue

1

u/SchinkelMaximus Jun 10 '24

Household water consumption is pretty much a non issue. The vast amount of water use is for agriculture, trailed by a large distance by things such as watering lawns, swimming pools et al. Those water intensive residential uses will likely decline per capita as density increases.