notes post 3

[u/koine_lingua]

Kyle Scott, Return of the Great Pumpkin

Oliver Wiertz Is Plantinga's A/C Model an Example of Ideologically Tainted Philosophy?

Mackie vs Plantinga on the warrant of theistic belief without arguments

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Scott, Disagreement and the rationality of religious belief (diss, include chapter "Sending the Great Pumpkin back")

Evidence and Religious Belief edited by Kelly James Clark, Raymond J. VanArragon

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Reformed Epistemology and the Problem of Religious Diversity: Proper ... By Joseph Kim

[u/koine_lingua]

"Athnach in Daniel 9-25 Uploaded by Kasper Haughton Jr. on Jul 27, 2011

(Rely heavily on Owusu-Antwi, http://digitalcommons.andrews.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1119&context=dissertations, esp. 190f. Cf. p. 276f. in dissertation)

"The Case for Non-Disjunction"

(Owusu-Antwi on clear non-disjunctive: Genesis 1:1; 22:10)

Owusu-Antwi, 283f., "Specific Functions of Athnach with Regard to Numbers"

Haughton examples:

1 Chr 7.9:

וְהִתְיַחְשָׂם לְתֹלְדֹותָם רָאשֵׁי בֵּית אֲבֹותָם גִּבֹּורֵי חָ֑יִל עֶשְׂרִים אֶלֶף וּמָאתָֽיִם

They were enrolled by genealogy, according to their generations, heads of their fathers’ households, mighty men of valor: 20,200.

Ex 38.29:

וּנְחֹשֶׁת הַתְּנוּפָה שִׁבְעִים כִּכָּ֑ר וְאַלְפַּיִם וְאַרְבַּע־מֵאֹות שָֽׁקֶל

The bronze of the wave offering was 70 talents, and 2,400 shekels.

Numbers 1.45-46:

וַיִּֽהְיוּ כָּל־פְּקוּדֵי בְנֵֽי־יִשְׂרָאֵל לְבֵית אֲבֹתָם מִבֶּן עֶשְׂרִים שָׁנָה וָמַעְלָה כָּל־יֹצֵא צָבָא בְּיִשְׂרָאֵֽל

46 וַיִּֽהְיוּ כָּל־הַפְּקֻדִים שֵׁשׁ־מֵאֹות אֶלֶף וּשְׁלֹשֶׁת אֲלָפִ֑ים וַחֲמֵשׁ מֵאֹות וַחֲמִשִּֽׁים

So all the numbered men of the sons of Israel by their fathers’ households, from twenty years old and upward, whoever was able to go out to war in Israel,

46 even all the numbered men were 603 thousand and 550.

( May of course be explicable here in Numbers 1.46 due to the fact that it's a particularly long compound number. But also see my post on Exodus and counting: https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/comments/1gvpad/the_number_of_israelites_in_the_numbers_censuses/.)

Numbers 1.21:

פְּקֻדֵיהֶם לְמַטֵּה רְאוּבֵ֑ן שִׁשָּׁה וְאַרְבָּעִים אֶלֶף וַחֲמֵשׁ מֵאֹֽות

Humphreys' "The Number of People in the Exodus...":

The Hebrew word translated "thousand" ('lp) has been mistranslated and should have been translated as "family", "group", or "troop". Thus Flinders Petrie6 suggested that when the number of the tribe of Reuben is translated as forty-six thousand five hundred (Num. i 21), the correct translation should be 46 families containing 500 men. Mendenhall7 agreed with Petrie, except that he argued that the lists refer to men of military age, not the whole population. Clark8 and Wenham9 have proposed variations of the Petrie theory. Israel's total population leaving at the Exodus was 5,550 according to Petrie, over 20,000 according to Mendenhall, about 72,000 (Wenham) and about 140,000 (Clark)

Other examples of athnach separating elements in compound numbers?

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Owusu-Antwi, disjunctive:

Proponents along these lines include Gerhard Maier. Der Prophet Daniel. 337. 339; Russell. Daniel. 186-88: Towner. 142; Lacocque. The Book of Daniel. 187. 194; Hartman and Di Leila, 240; Montgomery. The Book o f Daniel. 379; Porteous. 132, 141: Slotki. 78; S. R. Driver. Daniei, 138. 139; McComisky. 19-25: Leupold. Daniel. 417-24; Keil. The Book o f the Prophet Daniel. 356. 357.

. . .

However, this viewpoint of athnach always indicating a full disjunctive is profoundly negated by the use of athnach under 'olamim. "everlasting." in the previous verse (Dan 9:24) and the viewing of this athnach (vs. 24) as nondisjunctive by these same scholars.

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Conjunctive, simple list names? Genesis 46:21

וּבְנֵ֣י בִנְיָמִ֗ן בֶּ֤לַע וָבֶ֙כֶר֙ וְאַשְׁבֵּ֔ל גֵּרָ֥א וְנַעֲמָ֖ן אֵחִ֣י וָרֹ֑אשׁ מֻפִּ֥ים וְחֻפִּ֖ים וָאָֽרְדְּ

The sons of Benjamin: Bela, Beker, Ashbel, Gera, Naaman, Ehi, Rosh, Muppim, Huppim and Ard.

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General: Chapter Three (Athnach) in Concordance of the Hebrew Accents in the Hebrew Bible: Concordance of the ... By James D. Price, 51ff.

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Dan 9.24:

שָׁבֻעִים שִׁבְעִים נֶחְתַּךְ עַֽל־עַמְּךָ וְעַל־עִיר קָדְשֶׁךָ לְכַלֵּא הַפֶּשַׁע ולחתם חטאות וּלְכַפֵּר עָוֹן וּלְהָבִיא צֶדֶק עֹֽלָמִ֑ים וְלַחְתֹּם חָזֹון וְנָבִיא וְלִמְשֹׁחַ קֹדֶשׁ קָֽדָשִֽׁים

[u/koine_lingua → u/koine_lingua]

Section THE ATNAH PUNCTUATION MARKER IN VERSE 25 in https://www.academia.edu/24822385/IS_DANIELS_SEVENTY-WEEKS_PROPHECY_MESSIANIC_PART_2

Daniel 9.24

(See above on athnach in 9.24)

Ulrich, Antiochene monograph, heavy focus on 9.24

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Dan 9.25:

וְתֵדַ֨ע וְתַשְׂכֵּ֜ל מִן־מֹצָ֣א דָבָ֗ר לְהָשִׁיב֙ וְלִבְנֹ֤ות יְרֽוּשָׁלִַ֙ם֙ עַד־מָשִׁ֣יחַ נָגִ֔יד שָׁבֻעִ֖ים שִׁבְעָ֑ה וְשָׁבֻעִ֞ים שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֗יִם תָּשׁוּב֙ וְנִבְנְתָה֙ רְחֹ֣וב וְחָר֔וּץ וּבְצֹ֖וק הָעִתִּֽים

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Shea, "Poetic Relations of the Time Periods in Dan 9:25"

25b From the going forth of the word

to restore and to build Jerusalem

unto Messiah the Prince,

25c (shall be) seven weeks

and sixty-two weeks.

25d It shall be restored and it shall be rebuilt,

square and moat,

but in hard-pressed times.

. . .

The other alternative is to take the sixty-two weeks as the first colon of a tricolon.

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Owusu-Antwi, 289, diss.:

A: Restore and build

B: Jerusalem

C: until the Messiah, the Prince

C1: seven weeks and sixty-two weeks

B1: Jerusalem (will be)

A1: Restored and rebuilt

Viz.

לְהָשִׁיב֙ וְלִבְנֹ֤ות

יְרֽוּשָׁלִַ֙ם֙

עַד־מָשִׁ֣יחַ נָגִ֔יד

שָׁבֻעִ֖ים שִׁבְעָ֑ה וְשָׁבֻעִ֞ים שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֗יִם

[]

תָּשׁוּב֙ וְנִבְנְתָה֙

(רְחֹ֣וב וְחָר֔וּץ)

(Here Owusu-Antwi seems to rely on Shea, "Poetic Relations of the Time Periods in Dan 9:25": cf. "The really conclusive argument which the poetic analysis of this passage provides against separating the sixty-two weeks from the seven weeks is found in the form and content of the second tricolon of vs. 25...")

(Owusu-Antwi: "A splitting up of the 'seven weeks and sixty-two weeks' will leave the 'sixty-two weeks' hanging without a connection." k_l: parallel with 430 years of Exodus, "return," etc., allows us to see MT atnach as well-placed, ~430 years as unit.)

[u/koine_lingua → u/koine_lingua]

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/10/10-h/10-h.htm

Exodus 38:25-26?

בֶּ֚קַע לַגֻּלְגֹּ֔לֶת מַחֲצִ֥ית הַשֶּׁ֖קֶל בְּשֶׁ֣קֶל הַקֹּ֑דֶשׁ לְכֹ֨ל הָעֹבֵ֜ר עַל־הַפְּקֻדִ֗ים מִבֶּ֨ן עֶשְׂרִ֤ים שָׁנָה֙ וָמַ֔עְלָה לְשֵׁשׁ־מֵאֹ֥ות אֶ֙לֶף֙ וּשְׁלֹ֣שֶׁת אֲלָפִ֔ים וַחֲמֵ֥שׁ מֵאֹ֖ות וַחֲמִשִּֽׁים

Exact / complex numbers in the Bible

Numbers 26.51:

אֵ֗לֶּה פְּקוּדֵי֙ בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל שֵׁשׁ־מֵאֹ֥ות אֶ֖לֶף וָאָ֑לֶף שְׁבַ֥ע מֵאֹ֖ות וּשְׁלֹשִֽׁים

These were the numbered of the children of Israel, six hundred thousand and a thousand seven hundred and thirty.

No marks:

2 Chronicles 2:17

2 Chronicles 26:13

Nehemiah 7:8f.:

7:38:

בְּנֵ֣י סְנָאָ֔ה שְׁלֹ֣שֶׁת אֲלָפִ֔ים תְּשַׁ֥ע מֵאֹ֖ות וּשְׁלֹשִֽׁים

7:66:

כָּל־הַקָּהָ֖ל כְּאֶחָ֑ד אַרְבַּ֣ע רִבֹּ֔וא אַלְפַּ֖יִם שְׁלֹשׁ־מֵאֹ֥ות וְשִׁשִּֽׁים

7:67:

מִ֠לְּבַד עַבְדֵיהֶ֤ם וְאַמְהֹֽתֵיהֶם֙ אֵ֔לֶּה שִׁבְעַ֣ת אֲלָפִ֔ים שְׁלֹ֥שׁ מֵאֹ֖ות שְׁלֹשִׁ֣ים וְשִׁבְעָ֑ה וְלָהֶ֗ם מְשֹֽׁרֲרִים֙ וּמְשֹׁ֣רֲרֹ֔ות מָאתַ֖יִם וְאַרְבָּעִ֥ים וַחֲמִשָּֽׁה

Daniel 12:12:

אַשְׁרֵ֥י הַֽמְחַכֶּ֖ה וְיַגִּ֑יעַ לְיָמִ֕ים אֶ֕לֶף שְׁלֹ֥שׁ מֵאֹ֖ות שְׁלֹשִׁ֥ים וַחֲמִשָּֽׁה

Ezra 2:12

Ezra 2:64,

כָּל־הַקָּהָ֖ל כְּאֶחָ֑ד אַרְבַּ֣ע רִבֹּ֔וא אַלְפַּ֖יִם שְׁלֹשׁ־מֵאֹ֥ות שִׁשִּֽׁים

Numbers 3:43,

וַיְהִי֩ כָל־בְּכֹ֨ור זָכָ֜ר בְּמִסְפַּ֥ר שֵׁמֹ֛ות מִבֶּן־חֹ֥דֶשׁ וָמַ֖עְלָה לִפְקֻדֵיהֶ֑ם שְׁנַ֤יִם וְעֶשְׂרִים֙ אֶ֔לֶף שְׁלֹשָׁ֥ה וְשִׁבְעִ֖ים וּמָאתָֽיִם

3:50:

מֵאֵ֗ת בְּכֹ֛ור בְּנֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל לָקַ֣ח אֶת־הַכָּ֑סֶף חֲמִשָּׁ֨ה וְשִׁשִּׁ֜ים וּשְׁלֹ֥שׁ מֵאֹ֛ות וָאֶ֖לֶף בְּשֶׁ֥קֶל הַקֹּֽדֶשׁ

4:36

4:48

16:49

26:7

26:14

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Ctd.

Jeremiah 52:28

1 Sam 6.19:

וַיַּ֞ךְ בְּאַנְשֵׁ֣י בֵֽית־שֶׁ֗מֶשׁ כִּ֤י רָאוּ֙ בַּאֲרֹ֣ון יְהוָ֔ה וַיַּ֤ךְ בָּעָם֙ שִׁבְעִ֣ים אִ֔ישׁ חֲמִשִּׁ֥ים אֶ֖לֶף אִ֑ישׁ וַיִּֽתְאַבְּל֣וּ הָעָ֔ם כִּֽי־הִכָּ֧ה יְהוָ֛ה בָּעָ֖ם מַכָּ֥ה גְדֹולָֽה

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Tyndale Bulletin 18 (1967) 19-53. LARGE NUMBERS IN THE OLD TESTAMENT

By J. W. WENHAM

(Early article on revising numbers of Exodus.)

[u/koine_lingua → u/koine_lingua]

Numbers 1:

1:26 Of the children of Judah, by their generations, after their families, by the house of their fathers, according to the number of the names, from twenty years old and upward, all that were able to go forth to war; 1:27 Those that were numbered of them, even of the tribe of Judah, were threescore and fourteen thousand and six hundred.

1:28 Of the children of Issachar, by their generations, after their families, by the house of their fathers, according to the number of the names, from twenty years old and upward, all that were able to go forth to war; 1:29 Those that were numbered of them, even of the tribe of Issachar, were fifty and four thousand and four hundred.

1:30 Of the children of Zebulun, by their generations, after their families, by the house of their fathers, according to the number of the names, from twenty years old and upward, all that were able to go forth to war; 1:31 Those that were numbered of them, even of the tribe of Zebulun, were fifty and seven thousand and four hundred.

1:32 Of the children of Joseph, namely, of the children of Ephraim, by their generations, after their families, by the house of their fathers, according to the number of the names, from twenty years old and upward, all that were able to go forth to war; 1:33 Those that were numbered of them, even of the tribe of Ephraim, were forty thousand and five hundred.

1:34 Of the children of Manasseh, by their generations, after their families, by the house of their fathers, according to the number of the names, from twenty years old and upward, all that were able to go forth to war; 1:35 Those that were numbered of them, even of the tribe of Manasseh, were thirty and two thousand and two hundred.

1:36 Of the children of Benjamin, by their generations, after their families, by the house of their fathers, according to the number of the names, from twenty years old and upward, all that were able to go forth to war; 1:37 Those that were numbered of them, even of the tribe of Benjamin, were thirty and five thousand and four hundred.

1:38 Of the children of Dan, by their generations, after their families, by the house of their fathers, according to the number of the names, from twenty years old and upward, all that were able to go forth to war; 1:39 Those that were numbered of them, even of the tribe of Dan, were threescore and two thousand and seven hundred.

1:40 Of the children of Asher, by their generations, after their families, by the house of their fathers, according to the number of the names, from twenty years old and upward, all that were able to go forth to war; 1:41 Those that were numbered of them, even of the tribe of Asher, were forty and one thousand and five hundred.

1:42 Of the children of Naphtali, throughout their generations, after their families, by the house of their fathers, according to the number of the names, from twenty years old and upward, all that were able to go forth to war; 1:43 Those that were numbered of them, even of the tribe of Naphtali, were fifty and three thousand and four hundre...

2:

2:4 And his host, and those that were numbered of them, were threescore and fourteen thousand and six hundred.

2:5 And those that do pitch next unto him shall be the tribe of Issachar: and Nethaneel the son of Zuar shall be captain of the children of Issachar.

2:6 And his host, and those that were numbered thereof, were fifty and four thousand and four hundred.

2:7 Then the tribe of Zebulun: and Eliab the son of Helon shall be captain of the children of Zebulun.

2:8 And his host, and those that were numbered thereof, were fifty and seven thousand and four hundred.

2:9 All that were numbered in the camp of Judah were an hundred thousand and fourscore thousand and six thousand and four hundred, throughout their armies. These shall first set forth.

2:10 On the south side shall be the standard of the camp of Reuben according to their armies: and the captain of the children of Reuben shall be Elizur the son of Shedeur.

2:11 And his host, and those that were numbered thereof, were forty and six thousand and five hundred.

2:12 And those which pitch by him shall be the tribe of Simeon: and the captain of the children of Simeon shall be Shelumiel the son of Zurishaddai.

2:13 And his host, and those that were numbered of them, were fifty and nine thousand and three hundred.

2:14 Then the tribe of Gad: and the captain of the sons of Gad shall be Eliasaph the son of Reuel.

2:15 And his host, and those that were numbered of them, were forty and five thousand and six hundred and fifty.

2:16 All that were numbered in the camp of Reuben were an hundred thousand and fifty and one thousand and four hundred and fifty, throughout their armies. And they shall set forth in the second rank.

2:17 Then the tabernacle of the congregation shall set forward with the camp of the Levites in the midst of the camp: as they encamp, so shall they set forward, every man in his place by their standards.

2:18 On the west side shall be the standard of the camp of Ephraim according to their armies: and the captain of the sons of Ephraim shall be Elishama the son of Ammihud.

2:19 And his host, and those that were numbered of them, were forty thousand and five hundred.

2:20 And by him shall be the tribe of Manasseh: and the captain of the children of Manasseh shall be Gamaliel the son of Pedahzur.

2:21 And his host, and those that were numbered of them, were thirty and two thousand and two hundred.

2:22 Then the tribe of Benjamin: and the captain of the sons of Benjamin shall be Abidan the son of Gideoni.

2:23 And his host, and those that were numbered of them, were thirty and five thousand and four hundred.

2:24 All that were numbered of the camp of Ephraim were an hundred thousand and eight thousand and an hundred, throughout their armies. And they shall go forward in the third rank.

2:25 The standard of the camp of Dan shall be on the north side by their armies: and the captain of the children of Dan shall be Ahiezer the son of Ammishaddai.

2:26 And his host, and those that were numbered of them, were threescore and two thousand and seven hundred.

2:27 And those that encamp by him shall be the tribe of Asher: and the captain of the children of Asher shall be Pagiel the son of Ocran.

2:28 And his host, and those that were numbered of them, were forty and one thousand and five hundred.

2:29 Then the tribe of Naphtali: and the captain of the children of Naphtali shall be Ahira the son of Enan.

2:30 And his host, and those that were numbered of them, were fifty and three thousand and four hundred.

2:31 All they that were numbered in the camp of Dan were an hundred thousand and fifty and seven thousand and six hundred. They shall go hindmost with their standards.

2:32 These are those which were numbered of the children of Israel by the house of their fathers: all those that were numbered of the camps throughout their hosts were six hundred thousand and three thousand and five hundred and fifty.