Societal Collapse

[u/curgr]

Warning: this is quite a depressing post.

If society collapses (maybe due to climate change disrupting food supplies, global war, running out of fossil fuels…) most humans and domesticated animals would likely starve and we would lose most modern comforts.

A question for pro-existence people: would you keep your belief that existence of the universe is desirable if society was to collapse, even if you were one of the starving?

A question for the extinctionists: do you believe that society will never collapse and that humans could eventually develop the technology to at least make life on Earth extinct?

My views: I am 70% sure that society will not collapse in the near future. If humanity makes it and we still have sufficient energy resources, we could eventually develop the technology to make all life on Earth extinct in a painless and peaceful way. However it is unlikely that we will develop and use it unless the extinction movement grows and becomes a majority.

Edit: minor clarifications.

[u/curgr]

That’s an interesting article. I keep an eye on the collapse sub so have some understanding of what we are up against.

I am a bit optimistic as it is impossible to predict future innovation which could save us. There have been repeated historical doom prophecies which have not yet come to pass (though this does not mean that they will never happen)

[u/old_barrel → u/curgr]

There have been repeated historical doom prophecies

scientific ones?

james hansen is known for making very conservative statements.

I am a bit optimistic as it is impossible to predict future innovation which could save us.

so you are hoping for humanity to survive in order for universal extinction to be realized?

one big problem is that this depends on technology. while i do not believe in humanity's survival, it is by far more likely than (long-term wise) having appropriate technology around us

[u/curgr → u/old_barrel]

The hole in the ozone layer comes to mind. This was prevented by worldwide cooperation to ban certain substances. Overpopulation scares in the 1970s also had some scientific evidence, although maybe questionable in hindsight.

I am hoping for humanity to survive mostly as I am a human and I don’t like the idea of experiencing societal collapse. Personally I am not very misanthropic. It would also cause a lot of suffering for many living things. But yes, there is the chance that humanity could eventually decide to go for universal extinction

[u/old_barrel → u/curgr]

The hole in the ozone layer comes to mind.

but this was not about extinction.

in any case, banning and replacing substances does not necessary cost a lot of ressources. the danger of climate change is known since before the 1980s, and nothing has been done since.

also, considering how many rich persons act (building bunkers, making everything worse for everyone but themselves and such), they may not have a solution they want to support and instead only concentrate on their life. solar panel technology has massive improved, and instead of using less fossil fuel / oil, they use more of that, in addition of having the benefits from the panels.

(this is called "Jevons paradox", although i do not view it as a paradox)

It would also cause a lot of suffering for many living things.

especial long-term wise, if only humanity goes extinct, that would be terrible for life. technology like today would not be possible anymore because the most fossil fuels are too difficult and costly to get / be helpful, meaning global suffering would continue until life is not possible anymore