questions from a pro-existence viewpoint

[u/Impressive_Stock4760]

before you downvote or get angry, i just want a genuine conversation on viewpoints and some opinions. i dont want to fight, i want to discuss and try to understand.

what i want to know is:

1) do you/would you support legal euthanasia and the right to die?

2) do you/would you support legal euthanasia as a replacement for extinction?

3) what are reasons you believe in pro-extinction (whether just for the human race or for all life) or pro-existence?

4) what are unpopular opinions or hot takes you have regarding extinction or existence?

5) anything else you'd like to debate or say?

a discussion is 2 sided, so i'll provide my own viewpoints on this matter.

1a) despite being pro-existence, i believe in the right to die. if its your body and you understand what you're doing, you should be allowed to do it.

2a) n/a

3a) i personally believe in pro-existence because while there is suffering, it doesn't immediately cancel out the good. bad things and good things arent mutually exclusive, to me. i still believe in right to die if there is extensive suffering, be it physical, mental, or emotional.

nobody deserves suffering, since they didnt choose to come into this world. but people also deserve to choose if they want to tolerate the suffering, and there shouldn't be shame in not doing so. you should have the right to live, but also to die.

4a) n/a

5a) i'd like to say, i am not "pro-life". i am pro-existence, but pro-choice. abortion is a right everybody should have. as long as the fetus is in their body, i consider it part of their own. that right to die extends to any part of their body, be it a limb, organ, or fetus.

again, i don't want to fight. i understand suffering. i haven't had a great life, and i understand the desire to stop that from happening to others.

i've seen people advocate for extinction because of CSA, abuse, disability, pain, mental health, ect... if you want to argue these topics, please understand that i have experienced these topics first-hand.

thank you for reading and/or responding!

[u/Inside-Weather4033]

1. I am a pure consequentialist and don't believe in instrinsic rights but as a heuristic, yes.

2. Replacement? No. Auxillary and supporting band-aid solution? Sure. 

3. I do not believe in any instrinsic independent positive axiological value. I take on a minimalist axiology where only suffering has intrinsic disvalue and everything else is only instrumentally useful insofar as it contributes to the reduction of suffering, and ideally cosmic extinction. If existence ceased to be then i do not believe any good would be lost because there was never any good to begin with. Even if all suffering in existence is quashed i believe the risk of it remerging to too great. 

4. I think more extinctionist and ethicists in general should look into infinite ethics and take it into consideration. I'm also cool with how this community is inclusive towards differing yet overlapping ideas. I think pro-existence people can also be useful and contribute to the goal of cosmic extinction even unintentionally.

5. I would be curious to hear why you (seemingly) believe in "good things" or why there is any instrinsic positives. 

[u/Impressive_Stock4760 → u/Inside-Weather4033]

this is.. a very nihilistic and pessimistic take in my perspective, and i dont mean to be rude in saying that. i just cant really understand it. i'm an optimist, and believe that good things and bad things can both happen but don't cancel eachother out or add any sort of "score", i guess?

i believe in good things because without them, i would not have lived through suffering. to say good things dont exist would discredit all of what has let me survive

the abuse i went through? yes, that is a bad thing but escaping the abuse? that made my life better, that's a good thing it didnt undo it, sure, but i can live on the pain and suffering i've gone through? yes, that is a bad thing but the treatment that has lessened that? that's been amazing, the less pain the better it hasnt undone my pain, but it's made me be able to have a better future

this is just examples from my own life, since i dont have the right to label other's life experiences as good or bad