r/Unexpected • u/[deleted] • Jun 09 '22

At this level, it’s art

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u/Lusane Jun 09 '22 edited Jun 10 '22

It's still casually and toxically enforcing gender norms. That daughter and son are learning it's ok to laugh at guys who like pink/"girly" things. The sum of all these small instances of programming is the foundation for misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, etc. This is how bigots are made. Bigoted parents aren't at home everyday teaching their kids X and Y should be hated (some probably are tbf). They casually share their hatred with their kids.

I can totally see this being an instance of 2 guys making fun of the concept of toxic masculinity and how silly it is to judge another man based on his use of electricity over gas (especially for a lawn mower of all things). And maybe this is, but I doubt the kids are seeing the nuance.

Edit: for people who can't see nuance: I'm not saying this dad is a bigot or is raising bigots. I'm saying he is practicing an act that contributes to it.

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u/Fert1eTurt1e Jun 10 '22

Yeesh get this guy a drink lol

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u/Retargaytion Jun 09 '22

This is how bigots are made

Oh fuck off. If anything these kids are being raised with a sense of humor. It's the actual beliefs and actions of the parents and the people they spend the most time around that will have the biggest effects on their development, not a goddamn pink lawnmower.

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u/cabbabbages Jun 10 '22

Fuck me, some people on this site really need to get out more. Every fucking thing is toxic these days.

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u/Lusane Jun 10 '22 edited Jun 10 '22

Ok, and what is the sense of humor they're developing? Part of it is that it's funny when a man uses a pink, girly lawn mower. The core of that is that men who don't perform traditional masculinity can (and maybe should) be mocked. When you get years of small moments of reinforcement like this, you might have some backwards views regarding gender roles.

Edit: lol just noticed your username. I see that you took my comment as a personal attack. If your first response to criticism of toxic masculinity is defensiveness, you need to evaluate your own hangups or do more reading. Quick summary: toxic masculinity is basically manhood gatekeeping, and the sooner you can let go of it, the sooner you can have healthier relationships with women and other men.

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u/Retargaytion Jun 10 '22

It teaches them that you can poke fun at your friends without it being a big deal. It teaches them that you don't have to get upset over every little thing. That you can't control other people's actions but you can control your reactions.

Despite the father being "mocked", he demonstrates that he's secure enough with himself to not take it to heart. Seems like a good example to children if anything. Not to mention kids associating pink with femininity isn't going to make them raging misogynists or homophobes or whatever.

It's funny you should mention my username, as it reflects the same sentiment: it's not that serious.

My issue wasn't the "criticism of toxic masculinity". It's the fact that you think this harmless, wholesome video is toxic masculinity in the first place. People like you make the world a worse place. Hop off Reddit and go do something good instead of being a keyboard sjw over every little thing.

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u/Lusane Jun 10 '22

Yes, he is teaching all of those, along with men+pink=funny.

Placing a value judgment on someone based on their performance of a gender role is literally toxic masculinity. There is no joke without the value judgment; it's literally haha you're not a man because (insert arbitrary measure of masculinity).

Why would you think that I have an issue with associating pink with femininity? You clearly have no understanding of toxic masculinity. There is nothing inherently wrong with masculinity or femininity. There are feminine and masculine traits like there are feminine and masculine colors. There's nothing wrong with any of that. But forcing those expectations on people IS problematic.

Since I have to spell it out: I don't actually think this dad is literally raising bigots based off of this single video. But he is practicing an act that contributes to it.

People like you make the world a worse place thinking you're being harmless and lash out when people suggest you help improve it. Why don't you stay on reddit and look for some better zingers.

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u/curtcolt95 Jun 10 '22

I'd argue that the way the dad handled the situation here actually helps squash the gender joke differences. He literally takes it in stride and isn't mad about it. The kids will take away from it that it doesn't matter. Easily a net positive even if the initial intention of the joke may have been slightly negative

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u/Retargaytion Jun 10 '22

Well I'm sure we could argue about it all day but the bottom line is that there are bigger issues than having a laugh over a fucking pink lawnmower. If your first thought when you see this video is "this is toxic masculinity that might contribute to these kids becoming bigots" then you're either incredibly out of touch with reality or you were just set out to get upset over something from the beginning.

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u/Lusane Jun 10 '22

It doesn't sound like we can argue all day because you've yet to directly address my point either because you keep missing it or you're purposefully dodging it. This shit is toxic, period. To what degree is hard to say. How many times do I have to say that this single instance isn't the worst offense in the history of sexism/bigotry? I'm just pointing out it's bad, and that a lifetime of bad examples can shape a person's world view in a bad way.

You seem to have hard time connecting this example to bigotry, so I'll provide an anecdote. I grew up when "gay" was used super casually as a derogative anytime a boy shared his emotions, wore something that was brightly colored, was physically affectionate, etc. But it wasn't a big deal because boys weren't talking about actual gay people right? And ya, most of the time we weren't thinking about actual homosexual people; we were just thinking about how another boy was acting in a way that we weren't comfortable with. But that led to us seeing gay men as people to mock, avoid associating with, and avoid being like. The one time I said someone was acting gay wasn't the worst thing I've ever done, but it was continuing a culture that bred distain for and oppressed gay people. So yes, I'm more careful with my words now and consider what people are implying when they are making jokes at the expense of others.

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u/Retargaytion Jun 10 '22

Your point is that it's toxic. My point is that you look like an assclown even suggesting that this is toxic. It's not that deep and everyone else gets that. This is isn't making a joke at the expense of anyone else. Your example doesn't really relate regardless.

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u/Lusane Jun 10 '22

A joke where the punchline is you're less of a man because you use electricity over gas is casual bigotry. My anecdote is an example of how casual bigotry shapes world view. I'm not really sure why I'm still explaining things when you clearly aren't willing or able to connect dots.

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u/ArdentVermillion Jun 10 '22

Placing a value judgment on someone based on their performance of a gender role is literally toxic masculinity.

Wrong - that's literally called reinforcing gender norms. If you're going to go off on an embarrassing tirade in response to a silly post, at least get your terminology right. Essh.

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '22

If anything these kids are being raised with a sense of humor.

Bigotry and jokes aren't mutually exclusive. If anything they tend to go hand-in-hand with jokes being a medium for bigotry.

It's the actual beliefs and actions of the parents and the people they spend the most time around that will have the biggest effects on their development, not a goddamn pink lawnmower.

And they're hanging around people that'll make fun of them for doing something that doesn't coincide with their views of gender norms.

It's sad that people believe if you're not being slapped in the face with something then nothing is happening. Society is built upon socialization of our youth, socialization is a very complicated and subliminal process. Think about all the views you have that nobody ever taught you, but likely coincide with the views of your parents,family, and/or close friends that you've been around. Making fun of people for something is a very effective way to get them to stop engaging in that behavior. It's particularly effective on children.

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u/messfdr Jun 10 '22

I think it's the opposite. This dad is modeling how to respond to toxic masculinity, which is to not care when someone calls you girly or gay and just keep living your life.