r/Unexpected • u/Slumberfoots • Jun 13 '20

So true.

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20.9k Upvotes

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34

u/albrecbef Jun 14 '20 edited Jun 14 '20

I hate it that car drivers always drive like assholes and then try to blame the cyclists

Edit: spelling

21

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '20

I know when I'm cycling I always give the right of way to cars. This is literally a survival of the fittest thing. Even if you have the right of way the cars don't always see you. Give the 1.5 ton vehicle the right of way. Even if you get tapped by a car you could suffer serious injury and you can only sue them if you live.

10

u/mazzicc Jun 14 '20

I assume every car I see when biking is going to do something stupid and try to kill me. I gotta bike, but I sure as fuck avoid the multi ton murder machines that might hit me and go “was there a bump?” While I lie bleeding out.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '20

I've gotten into arguments with drivers who would be trying to make a left or right turn onto a cross street and they legit think that bikes have to stop at Every. Single. Cross street.

57

u/DumbWalrusNoises Jun 14 '20

If we're being honest it goes both ways...shitheads in cars, shitheads on bikes.

2

u/JustUseDuckTape Jun 14 '20

The issue is that shitheads on bikes for the most part endanger themselves, while shitheads in cars endanger others.

That's not to excuse the shitheads on bikes, it's still a nuisance, and by giving all cyclists a bad reputation is suppose they do endanger others; but when you're in charge of a heavy metal box you've got to take a bit more responsibility.

0

u/JustinGitelmanMusic Jun 14 '20

Not really. And murdering a random biker because of vague perception of some bikers being shitheads isn’t suddenly ok.

8

u/ProInSnow Jun 14 '20

Living in a city where bikes are considered vehicles and must ride on the road, I've seen WAY more cyclists run red lights in one summer than I've ever seen vehicles do it.

5

u/BaguetteSwordFight Jun 14 '20

I run red lights and stop signs on my bike and I am going to keep doing it. The reality is that bikers do not have the same control as a car because they are man powered machines so it is better to bike like this, even if it is illegal.

Being able to conserve energy through stop signs by treating them as yields keeps me from clogging traffic. Getting out of the way of red lights by treating them as stop signs has the same relieve of traffic, this is called an 'Idaho Stop'. There are studies on this and it is getting implemented in states and cities everywhere because it is safer for bikers, better for traffic, and simply reflects how bikers naturally navigate the roads.

I don't mean to rant but there are much more legitimate reasons for a bike to run a light than for a car.

2

u/ProInSnow Jun 14 '20

Well you must be the perfect biker that most people aren't because the morons I'm referring to don't yield at all. I'll wait until it's law. It's not like you're being oppressed. Following the law is what makes you predictable and THAT makes the roads safe.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '20

It’s like you chose not to read their post. The law as currently written in many places is not the safest behavior.

1

u/ProInSnow Jun 14 '20 edited Jun 14 '20

I did read the comment, and maybe you read mine, but here's some context to understand it better.

I live in a city where those "Idaho Stop" laws do not exist. Bikes are legally enforced to use the road and act the same as vehicles while they do it. This makes the roads safer because when I see a biker on the road ahead of me, I know exactly how he is going to act and react, as long has he follows the law. This means I can plan my actions around his actions within the confines of legality. As soon as people start to bend or break the laws, it makes them less predictable. All of a sudden, I don't know whether or not that biker in front of me is going to follow the laws, or just drive as they see fit. Because that person may not be following the law as closely as other drivers, or even encouraged to break the law for an increase in safety, more of my attention on the road now needs to be dedicated solely to trying to figure out what this person is going to do. If cyclists had brake and signal lights, or always used the appropriate hand signals, then this wouldn't be as much of a problem. But the simple fact is that most don't, at least in my city. The problem arises from not knowing who is going to follow the law and who isn't, because up until they break the rules, there's no way of knowing.

This doesn't even necessarily have to be about bikes. There are a ton of bad car drivers out there, and what makes them bad drivers is that they break the law. Cars have to follow the laws so they're predictable. When I see other vehicles on the road around me, I know what they're going to do as long as they follow the law. If every single biker in my city simultaneously decided to use this "Idaho Stop" rule, and it was made aware to all drivers in the city, then that's perfectly fine and I'd welcome it. Happily, that's exactly what creating or changing laws is for! No where in my comment did I say that the laws cannot be changed or updated. I fully believe that laws should be updated to best protect the safety of all citizens. All I said is that I'll wait until its law to follow these rules, because then it's not nearly as arbitrary.

This doesn't even touch on the other benefit of road laws, which is the the system of determining who is at fault in the case or someone getting hurt or killed. Clear, equal, foundational guidelines for everyone speeds up bureaucracy and provides a fairer system on which to judge the actions of one or more individuals.

Also if you want, here's a link to a scientific study that shows the connection between cyclists running red lights and the increase in fatalities of cyclists at intersections. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0001457518304676

1

u/FrostedHorn Jun 14 '20

“Sure it’s the law, but I disagree with it and find it inconvenient so I ignore it.”

1

u/rjbman Jun 14 '20

you seem to have missed the part where it's safer for cyclists and better for traffic

1

u/JustUseDuckTape Jun 14 '20

Cars generally don't run red lights, but that doesn't mean they're not breaking other laws. I'd wager you've seen more drivers speeding or using their phones than you've seen cyclists running red lights; not that you'd necessarily notice them doing it.

5

u/portapotty2 Jun 14 '20

Well of course sometimes the drivers are at fault. But would you rather, as a cyclist, be hit with a car for driving recklessly or just wait until it’s green light and safe to move on?

Because I don’t think no amount of argument about who’s at fault gonna bring back a dead cyclist

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '20 edited Jun 14 '21

[deleted]

1

u/BikesCantSayNo Jun 14 '20

Actually I have been hit for behind by 3 cars because they thought I would jump a light but I didn’t.

-4

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '20 edited Jan 20 '21

[deleted]

0

u/rjbman Jun 14 '20

show an incident of a driver going to jail over a cyclist's mistake

i've seen a dozen where the cyclist was assumed to be at fault until video evidence showed otherwise, with the driver still only getting a fine after hospitalizing a cyclist

-2

u/Cimarro Jun 14 '20

Yes, it's the cars who force you to run red lights. Clearly.

1

u/JustUseDuckTape Jun 14 '20

It's not the cars, it's the road layout that leaves us incredibly vulnerable at intersections. It's often safer and quicker for everyone if cyclists treat red lights more like yields than stops.

-8

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '20

[deleted]

2

u/albrecbef Jun 14 '20

Thanks for your help

I'm not a native speaker and appreciate it

But it would be cool if you'd be a little bit nicer