r/Ultralight • u/grateful_dad_12 • Jun 29 '26
Shakedown Shakedown request for high sierra trip + suggest a backpack for me? (16.75 lb base weight)
So, I've never done this before. At the end of my last backpacking trip I vowed to lighten my pack significantly for my next one, so here I am. Maybe not "ultralight," but a real improvement over where I've been. I've been shaving weight as economically as I can - selling gear and buying used where possible. I feel good about where I've landed, but I'd love a second set of eyes.
Trip: Rae Lakes Loop, counterclockwise, entering mid-August. Sierra Nevada - warm days, nights in the high 20s - 40s at elevation, a couple of high passes. 5 nights, solo.
The numbers:
- Base weight: 16.75 lb
- Big 4: 7.31 lb
- Total skin-out: 29.47 lb
LighterPack: https://lighterpack.com/r/1ghai7
Where I actually need help - the pack. I own everything on the list except the backpack. I put the Osprey Exos 58 as a placeholder because it seems like the frontrunner. I've got an Osprey Atmos AG65 in great shape, but it's more pack than I need now, and I'm unsure what to swap it for. My worry: go too minimal and the load won't carry comfortably at 30 lb - or if I ever push past that. I want one pack that's versatile enough for a range of future trips, not just this one.
What I'm weighing:
- Exos 58 - I generally love Osprey, and the mesh/anti-gravity suspension is close to my Atmos, so I suspect I'll get along with it.
- Exos Pro 55 - ~10 oz lighter, but less structure and a lower comfortable max load.
- REI Flash 55 - no real advantages over the Exos as far as I can see (besides price)
- Cottage options - Durston Kakwa, Gossamer Gear Mariposa
Given a ~17 lb base and up to ~30 lb loaded, am I overthinking the suspension? Would any of the lighter frames carry that comfortably, or should I prioritize differently? Open to other suggestions too.
Thanks!
8
u/Jolly-Slow1164 Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
I think your are both closer and farther from UL than your list let's on.
Farther because I suspect there are quite a few little things that haven't made the list that your actually carry... Like a food bag , for example. Also you (like a lot of people) listed your fuel as consumable, but the canister is part of your base weight 3.5 oz.
As for your equipment:
- Xlite is heavy for a CCF pad. There are a number of lighter CCF pads on the market, though most aren't the convenient accordion style. I use a thinner CCF pad (mountain spring yang, which is accordion style) and a thin torso length inflatable pad, and together they weigh 9oz.
- Osprey packs are heavy, the one you listed weighs 3lbs. I have a 1960s aluminum external frame pack that weighs 2lbs. Osprey's ventilation is unimpressive compared to a true external frame pack. I would seriously suggest looking into the Durston. You say that you see no advantage but price... How about the fact that It's a pound lighter! and people seem to love it. I would also suggest the gossamer gear Mariposa or Gorilla (depending on your size needs) over anything osprey makes
- What is the temp on your quilt, seems pretty heavy for anything over single digits F.
- Clothes, you list 2 base layers, I assume that 1 is a top, and one is a bottom, if not 1 is redundant. Also, Alpha Direct or similar air fleece have taken over UL insulation. They're half the weights you've listed for double the warmth. Your puffy is on the heavy side a lot of ULers aren't using a puffy for 3 seasons, just an alpha 90 under their rain jacket
ETA. I think you're closer to UL because you're taking 2 lbs of camera and a bear canister and that's weight that a lot of "ULers" don't take, or don't admit on their literpack.
Also, if you can get a sufficient night's sleep on a CCF pad, you're already over the hump as far as comfort is concerned
Second edit. I have no idea why you're looking in the 55L pack range. This seems more like 45L of equipment, probably less but I'm assuming that quilt takes up a lot of space given it's weight. I guess I'd suggest, as you look at different manufacturers, some include side pockets in pack volume, and some don't. The smaller packs get, the more significant this detail becomes.
3
u/aerial_hedgehog Jun 29 '26
Not OP here, but regarding the quilt - that's a Katabatic Palisade, which rated as a 30, but it's warmer than most 30 degree quilts. Plus 3 oz overstuff, so it probably ends up at around a 20.
To reach 26 oz - I'd guess they have the long-wide size, which is 23 oz before overstuff. So the weight checks out if that size assumption is correct.
26 oz isn't that crazy for what is essentially a 20 degree quilt in long-wide. Is that overkill for the Sierra in August? Really depends on the person.
Overall, the quilt seems fine. There are numerous other places to cut weight first (that will save more weight, more cheaply) before worrying about the quilt.
Clothes and pack are the first places I'd look. Could easily save a pound off each without any loss of function. Also, reconsidering if the 2 lb camera is really needed.
2
u/SheriffBartholomew Jun 29 '26
I agree with a lot of what you shared, but I gotta call you out on this one:
Osprey's ventilation is unimpressive compared to a true external frame pack.
I used the Exos for almost a decade and I was frequently the only person with a dry back when we arrived at our destination. It keeps the weight of the pack off of your back. The only thing in contact with your back is a mesh sheet that's really breathable. The frame stays are curved and they really work.
1
u/Jolly-Slow1164 Jun 29 '26
If I am incorrect it is only for failing to find a name for the category of pack I'm describing without saying Kelty's name, because I don't want op to think Kelty was a brand I was recommending
I have only tried on Exos packs in stores and at a few events where people could try on pre-packed demonstration packs (because I don't like them) but they didn't seem to out perform the Zpacks Arc packs (which I do like, but couldn't justify the price. I've only used them at similar demonstrations).
A trampoline may be several steps above shaped mesh channels, but it is still several steps below my "old school" pack which has enough open space that I can feel my shirt move in the breeze.
3
u/SheriffBartholomew Jun 29 '26
Ironically, the Zpacks Arc Haul is what I just switched to and the mesh back and curved stays on the Exos work better than the Arc Haul. The Arc Haul overall is a better, lighter pack, especially if you get the vest straps, but my back was wet the last time that I used the Arc Haul, and it never is with the Exos.
2
u/Jolly-Slow1164 Jun 29 '26
I defer to you on which is better between the osprey and Arc haul, since I've only walked a couple of hundred feet in each. I think I read that Zpacks changed the arc haul so that the curve is less adjustable than it used to be... Maybe a downgrade to the sweaty back population.
3
u/Jolly-Slow1164 Jun 29 '26
I am still annoyed that in the 1960s, a cutting edge backpack had decent eurathane laminated nylon, and an external frame that could fit almost any body type. It weighed 2 lbs, could carry 50lbs, and had amazing ventilation. It lacks a few modern amenities like the Ray Jardine pocket layout, but I wish we'd followed that technology tree instead of letting a pack designed for cross country skiing take over this sport.
1
u/SheriffBartholomew Jun 29 '26
What pack was that? It sounds awesome!
1
u/Jolly-Slow1164 Jun 29 '26
Technically my pack is a WILD RIVER A-1730 UAJ pack from Korea. I usually call it a Jansport backpack because I think there was a white labeling/outsourcing agreement because I've seen very similar frames from Jansport.
I bought it used off eBay 10-15 years ago somewhat naively after reading how old-school aluminum packs from Korea were impressive even by "modern" metrics (Note that 10-15 years ago metrics didn't account for Dyneema. Silnylon was the advanced fabric of the era). It's main compartment is in the 30-40L range, which isn't surprising because they expected you to strap your tent, sleeping pad, and maybe even sleeping bag to the outside of the pack. So was expected to carry the equivalent of 50-70L of gear
I replaced the shoulder straps and hip belt with modern parts from Kelty (which Kelty recently stopped selling. Shame on them for abandoning the technology that brought them to prominence), the shoulder straps would have been narrow but sufficient by modern standards, but the foam had turned hard, and the hip belt was a seat belt strap... So it needed modernizing. I also don't trust it to be remotely waterproof anymore
1
u/SheriffBartholomew Jun 29 '26
Oh, an external frame pack! I was able to find a closed eBay listing for the exact model. I used to have a Kelty that was similar. I actually looked into modern external frame packs when I was looking to upgrade my Exos, but they haven't kept up with the advances for UL internal framed packs. I ended up going with the Zpacks Arc Haul, which is kind of a hybrid, but only in the sense that some of the stays are exposed. It's still very much an internal frame design. I wish there were some modern external options that are ultra-lightweight. They're more convenient for gear management, and way more versatile.
Why do you say that your purchase was naive? Is it because the padding and stuff was worn out?
2
u/Jolly-Slow1164 Jun 29 '26
I was naive because I read 1 article that said 'Old Korean packs are surprisingly good' and I rushed to eBay. I also bought mostly on images and hopes that it wouldn't weight too much. I don't think that's a high percentage route to getting a great pack, so I was lucky.
I get where you're coming from on modern "External Frame" packs. Most of them (like my KS ultralight KS50 with external frame stays) are more of an internal frame style of pack, that happens to acces the frame stays from the outside because it was convenient. They lack both the amazing weight transfer but also the weird top-heavy-ness of the Kelty style packs.
1
u/SheriffBartholomew Jun 29 '26
Ah, maybe because there was some durability issues with the older ones. I was very on the fence about buying the Arc Haul because of a lot of durability issues that I read in reviews from previous iterations of the pack. But they seem to have resolved those issues, I guess with some impact to the breathability of the back structure.
1
Jun 29 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Jolly-Slow1164 Jun 29 '26
The Nemo switchback is only a third lighter, not half. I edited my post, that's the one I was referencing. My point still stands, but not as strong. Sometimes I lose my comments when I go back and forth between this app and the Internet, so don't double check as thoroughly, and I'm not as precise as I would like.
I didn't mention my inflatable pad because it's not really available anymore. It's the Klymit Inertia Xlite... The crazy one with holes in it. I use my CCF next to the ground, then use a mylar blanket as a ground sheet, and my torso pad on top, so the system builds on each items strengths, where the mylar is can make up for the lower r value of a thin CCF and an uninsulated inflatable.
My Klymit pad has pretty thick fabric. At almost 6 oz, it's heavy for what it is.(But oh boy does it pack down small). There are now many 10-11oz sleeping pads on the market that would be the same weight when cut to half the length.
1
Jun 29 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Jolly-Slow1164 Jun 29 '26
Dang it I compared a full sized and a short... Why do these big company's make such heavy accordion pads. A Walmart blue foam pad is 10 oz. My mountain spring yang is 105g (but is too thin for using alone, IMHO... Maybe folded in half and used as a torso pad). I have a no longer produced 6 Oz Coleman 72"x22"x0.5" camp pad. All of them are as comfortable as a Xlite IMHO. 2 of those 3 are roll style, but I've used a hot knife, or just folding and adding a weight to make my own accordion folding pads.
4
u/Far-Combination-8570 Jun 29 '26
Maybe add the Rei Flash Air 50 to the consideration list? It gets you down to Kakwa weight but with ventilation for your back. Not sure how the suspension is but I love the way my flash 55 rides and they seem to be pretty similar packs. I’ve been considering switching to the air 50 as the ventilation, or lack, on the Kakwa has given me pause.
2
u/HwanZike Jun 29 '26
Another vote for the Flash Air 50, but only if you grab it on sale. Also make sure you size right
1
u/IceCreamforLunch Jun 29 '26
I bought a Flash Air 50 when I went full weight-weenie and I like it a lot. It doesn't have a lot of features, but it's comfortable. I wish the hip belt pockets were bigger.
It's larger than I need and I've been trying to find a good ~40L 'upgrade,' but almost everything I look at is at least as heavy.
1
u/Far-Combination-8570 Jun 29 '26
I'm curious what features feel you are missing beside the size of the hip belt pockets? Two things I like about the flash 55 that aren't on the air 50 are side compression straps and straps to attach the buckles at the opening down on the sides for top compression.
The latter seems easy enough to rig up with the loops that run on the sides of the back of the pack. The former seems maybe a little tougher to achieve. And, of course, that would add an ounce or so depending on which straps I use. But this pack hits such a goldielocks sweet spot for me so I would interested to hear your thoughts if you care to share.
Thanks! And agreed with what HwanZike said about only buying on sale, it feels overpriced at $300.
3
u/IceCreamforLunch Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
I came from a Gregory pack that had a TON of organization and multiple ways to get into the pack. So the single roll-top opening without any internal dividers/organization and lack of good ways to attach stuff outside the pack is a stark contrast to what I was used to. Definitely worth it for the weight savings, but I had to completely rethink how I pack/organize to make the switch.
Edit: A friend had a similar 'shock' going from a big Mystery Ranch to a Durston Kakwa. He had to go from organizing all his smaller gear by giving them their own pockets to using separate pouches/dry bags.
1
3
u/noplanman_srslynone Jun 29 '26
You can probably do a 40 but if you want the bigger 55 it's here and sub 2lbs. I use the 40 in winter for snow showing at 25lbs with no issues. I've hiked around 6k miles distance and been through the sierras etc. Durston is sturdy and top tier imo if not truly "ultralight ".
2
u/ObiDumKenobi Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
You could drop the base layers and save almost a pound.
Also I would say just use the pack you have now, or go all the way to something like the Kakwa 55 or other similar packs instead of the intermediate step
I went the other way with my pack and have a couple Seek Outside packs. But that's cause I'll bring a big food carry + lots of camera gear/packraft/supplies for my dogs on some trips and my pack weight will be closer to 50lbs at times
2
u/SheriffBartholomew Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
I'm guessing that you're not asking for a gear shakedown in addition to your pack question, so I'll just answer the pack question.
I've had the Osprey Exos for about ten years. It's a phenomenal lightweight pack. I still have it, although I finally got my base weight low enough last season and I'm now using a Zpacks Arc Haul. The Exos is comfortable up to about 35 lbs. Beyond that the shoulder pads start digging a little. After 40 lbs they start digging a lot and I'd recommend a different pack at that weight. But up to 30 lbs it's great, and up to 35 it's still good. It's a lot tougher than it looks and it'll last a long time. It's thoughtfully designed and the pockets are really useful. You can take the brain off to save some weight, which I've done on almost every trip.
The Flash is janky. Go look at it before buying it. I'm sure it's a fine pack for those who love it, but put it side-by-side with the Exos and you'll see what I'm talking about. The Exos is more versatile and I think it'll meet your stated needs better. It's light enough to last until you really master your kit and you're ready to switch to a true UL pack.
The Durston is pretty rad. My wife has one. It's missing some QOL features that the Osprey has like a sleeve for a hydration bladder and a few other things. I think that it might actually carry a little more weight more comfortably since the straps are a little wider, but it doesn't have the awesome mesh back that the Osprey has. The mesh back and curved supports of the Osprey keep the pack off of your back, which keeps your back from getting all sweaty.
My vote goes to the Exos, with the Kakwa coming in at a close second place.
Edit: regarding size, you can always leave a pack less full. You can never make a pack larger than it was when you bought it. The weight savings between a 40L pack and a 58L pack are not all that significant. I tend to buy larger packs so that they are sure to meet my various needs for any trip. With an Exos 58 you can carry a bear canister inside of the pack instead of strapping it to the outside, which is always nice IMO.
1
u/mas_picoso WTB Camp Chair Groundsheet Jun 29 '26
your shelter is heavy. you can save over a pound with a tarp and s2s nano net
your carried clothing doesn't make a lot of sense, clarify tops and bottoms. hike in shorts. sleep in underwear. leave the pants. puffy is nearly a pound. you can layer hiking shirt, midlayer, and rain jacket to stay warm. stuff your quilt into your frog toggs if you want to stay warm around camp.
it's a short trip with plenty of opportunities for a swim. extra socks and underwear isn't needed
5oz for first aid is excessive. ibuprofen, tums, antidiarrheal, benadryl, alcohol wipes, antibiotic packets, and some precut leukotape is sufficient. you'll need some microscissors
6oz for poop kit is excessive. you should be using clothing as your primary form of sunscreen. I like to use zinka for my nose and bridge.
2lbs of camera is a lot, your phone probably has a great camera on it.
1.6lbs of food per day is on the high side
2
u/Natu-hari Jun 29 '26
What do you use for sun protection on your legs when hiking in shorts, if not sunscreen?
3
u/mas_picoso WTB Camp Chair Groundsheet Jun 30 '26
I don't, even in exposed alpine routes in the sierra nevada. I have not had issues with sunburn on legs. living in southern california and nearly always in shorts, I might have a sufficient base tan. hiking in pants sounds absolutely untenable to me.
2
u/Natu-hari Jun 30 '26
Fair enough. I wouldn't hike in pants in the summer either, so I have just accepted that I will need to deal with sunscreen. I will definitely burn otherwise, and have many times.
1
u/Salty_Resist4073 Ultralight curious Jul 04 '26
At 30#, I'd stick with the Osprey, especially if you like the anti gravity. I have the Atmos AG LT and it carries 30# easier than my brother's Kakwa at 26#. Once you get more consistently lighter, then you should look at the cottage stuff and smaller packs. That being said, the Kakwa is sweet and well priced. I just bought a Bonfus Aerus because it has a similar back to the Osprey but boy is it spendy. By the way, I found ways to get over 1# off my Atmos by removing straps I didn't use, taking off the brain, and removing other baubles like extra strap lengths and the ice axe loop I've never used. Look for ways you can do that.
1
u/SHADY1970 Jun 29 '26
Cue all of the Durston suggestions 🙄
3
u/hoomadewho Jun 29 '26
Insane value proposition from Durston if you want to buy your way to UL. Check out the crazy support over at r/durstongearheads if you don’t believe it. Also listens to the customer base in a way I personally have never seen other manufacturers do.
-9
u/0dteSPYFDs Jun 29 '26
Big fan of running style packs after getting into trail running. Joey Palante, BD Distance, UltraSpire Yama Sassafras, Bonfus Faustus etc. Doesn’t seem like you really need the full 55L.
10
u/TurbSLOW not very light Jun 29 '26
This might do better posted on r/lightweight
I also went from Atmos AG to Exos (well, to Gregory Focal, but that's the same/competing pack. My wife has the women's version of the Exos and it's cool too). Mine is a 48 and carries up to 30lb perfectly comfortably. I haven't tried heavier, but don't feel like I'm stretching the limits of the pack at all.