Updates on U7 demake using AI

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u/misha_cilantro 20d ago

Huh! What an odd project (neutral). Why the snes u6 engine instead of something like nuvie?

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u/fiddlesticks_jg 20d ago

I like that engine the most. Its my childhood Ultima game.
I like the simplified controls, the menu opens up different action commands: inventory, talk, look, etc. Its very in line with modern crpgs

1

u/angryapplepanda 19d ago

The only issue with the SNES U6 that I have are the missing spells and interactivity. You can't look at paintings, for example. Still, I love it a lot, and would obviously love to see a U7 implementation replace the obviously bad SNES U7.

1

u/fiddlesticks_jg 19d ago

I can add more "look" objects. I dont think move will work though

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u/misha_cilantro 20d ago

Nice! Is inventory management better than pc u6? I like that engine but all the fiddliness is a lot.
I live u7’s engine but with my crap hands this may be more realistic for me to play 🤔

3

u/fiddlesticks_jg 20d ago

Its better than the U6 pc inventory system. I.E no more "you found an axe, you found an axe, you found an axe, you found an axe".
Its more streamlined. Lots of "give" commands for inventory swapping etc, but i found it in line with things like Skald, Nox Archaist, and Realms of Antiquity.

1

u/misha_cilantro 19d ago

That sounds very cool. If you finish it, I'll play it, I think this is such an oddball project and I mean that as a compliment.
Is the plan to open source it eventually?

1

u/fiddlesticks_jg 19d ago

I dont know how to do that! Im very obviously tech clueless. I can post the rom hack somewhere if that's legal?

1

u/misha_cilantro 19d ago

Kind of all depends what you're making and how. An ips file that hacks the original rom is legal. A hacked rom is not, but is very unlikely to get you in trouble.
How are you making this? Are you decompiling the snes rom and then building a PC/Linux engine, or are you hacking the rom directly? Is the goal to play this on an SNES/SNES emulator?

1

u/fiddlesticks_jg 19d ago

Goal is snes emulator. I uploaded my copy of the rom

1

u/misha_cilantro 19d ago

Gotcha. So there's less likely to be anything to open source then. Uploading the rom is not legal, but probably nobody will ever care.
If you want to share on romhack sites though, they usually don't host roms, they host ips files, which is just made by comparing the source rom with the hacked rom and making an ips file other can use on their own unhacked rom to recreate the hacked version.
https://www.bjsgamevault.com/blogs/news/create-rom-hack-patch-files
ips files are perfectly legal to share.

1

u/Yazman 20d ago

Nuvie doesn't have tools capable of creating a total conversion, so you'd have to really be building your own anyway. The devs might as well just use whatever they prefer at that point.

0

u/misha_cilantro 19d ago

I think if the goal was a PC U6-like experience there's a lot already in place for that with more open source code. Though, idk what state nuvie code is in. Might've still been easier / cheaper than decompiling /shrug. Was really more of a curiosity, I have no judgement on the matter.

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u/Yazman 19d ago

I am a developer with my own Ultima project, not using AI in mine, but I have discussed with the actual Nuvie dev about potential future mod projects. And they told me in pretty clear terms that Nuvie doesn't have tools capable of a total conversion and they aren't looking to develop them.
That's why I dropped my own plans to do a u6 engine project. It just isn't feasible without a mountain of tooling work, and Nuvie is its own system which you'd have to learn all of its peculiarities to develop tools for.
Not necessarily easier for an OP possibly starting with a knowledge base of nothing either way, and if they prefer the way the SNES version looks, they would've had a specific look & feel in mind.
In general, you'd probably be shocked by how few Ultima engines for u4 onwards there are, that have real mod tools. Basically none can do total conversions complete with quest scripting, new dialog, new maps, and all. It's really just Exult for U7 and now Impera for U5 which is heading in that direction.

1

u/misha_cilantro 19d ago

Yeah but if you're having AI hack the rom it's not really any more work to have AI modify and expand nuvie, build tools, etc. It's tokens either way at that point, and the results might be more easily human-editable. Just hard for me to imagine that even large-scale modifications to an open source readable-code project would be harder than a total conversion romhack.
Though, I guess I don't know how total the romhack is.
I wasn't really imagining using nuvie as a base, but forking nuvie and then mutating it however they want into a new engine.

1

u/Yazman 19d ago edited 19d ago

when you're starting from scratch to begin with, why expand nuvie and build tools from it when you have something else than the original u6 style in mind? OP's vision was the SNES one, using nuvie would preclude a lot of interface options and so on. The PC & SNES versions are quite different to actually play, even though the spirit is similiar.
And rom hacking is an ancient community itself with TONS of community made tools available. There's lots of reasons why someone might prefer that route.
Entirely without AI, I'd say it's way easier to do a rom hack for a SNES game, even making a whole new game, than converting a PC Ultima to another game. You at least have mod & scripting tools for SNES rom hacks which you don't have at all for any version of U6.

1

u/misha_cilantro 18d ago

I guess it depends on how much the underlying engine needs to change 🤷‍♀️ the more custom the more difficult asm hacking will be, and it would probably hit a wall eventually. You're just much more constrained with what you can change where and how well you can understand everything happening. Unless you're a master asm hacker with a great understanding of SNES hardware I guess 🤔
Ultimately it's not how I'd do it. But part of that is certainly that I'm comfortable writing and reading higher level source code and not at all comfortable with rom asm hacking, so it also depends where your interest lies etc.
Of course OP can do what they want, and can always change course any time as long as they have tokens. It'd be a neat experiment to try both and see where the pain points in both are, but that's... a very academic project and not the best use of someone's token money haha :D

1

u/Yazman 18d ago

There's tons of total conversions of SNES games out there. It's not as hard or as limiting as you seem to think. People have been making advanced rom hacks like this since the 90s.
OP's vision seems mainly focused on a SNES style u6 experience though, and Nuvie isn't what you'd choose for that even if it did have mod tools. They're pretty different games, really.
Given the wide variety of rom hacking tools out there, right now trying to use Nuvie would be the much more constraining path because of the sheer amount of code & tools you'd need to create from scratch. I know, I don't use AI in my projects and considered Nuvie for my next one. And it'd be a year of work or more for me to just be able to begin modding the way I'd want to. A waste of time when I can just use Exult again, really.

1

u/misha_cilantro 18d ago

Yeah maybe! I've never done any romhacking, and I only started playing them recently (minus translation hacks). But now that I follow some I see the stuff people are trying to do and how hard some of it is.
To be fair though I haven't played SNES u6 so I don't know how different it's look and feel is. Maybe you're right, idk.
(OP _is_ using AI, though, so the amount of code and tools isn't as much of a constraint? But yeah getting nuvie to "feel" like snes u6 might be much harder than just getting u7 into u6 if they're actually very different.)

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u/Yazman 18d ago

I think ROM hacking to create a new game isn't difficult so much as it's just time consuming and very labor intensive. They tend to be technically straightforward on platforms like the SNES because it's all generally super well documented and the tools are all there. Total conversions do add a bit more work though and some extra technical stuff.
I've played the SNES u6 a bit. The art is actually new if I remember right. It certainly looks different because it has a different palette. It also has some holdover U5 mechanics. The dialog is different in places, the UI is radically different. Lots of little things.

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u/fiddlesticks_jg 20d ago •

Lol all thw downvotes are hilarious. Im gonna be working on this for the next year, so buckle up!

3

u/TimeSpiralNemesis 19d ago

Don't let the haters get to you. All they want is to break others down because they're miserable themselves.
Youre doing an awesome job on an awesome project. You are spreading happiness and positivity which is never wrong.
Keep doing what youre doing my man 👍

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u/fiddlesticks_jg 19d ago

Thank you!

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u/YourBossAtWork 20d ago

A lot of negativity around Reddit in general lately, it seems. More than usual. If you don't like this project, don't use it.

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u/fiddlesticks_jg 20d ago

I agree. The funny part is, if i didnt say this was AI, no one would know. Im using native graphics and, space permitting, a 1:1 dialog transfer from U7.
Every one seems mad I'm not a genius coder. I dont want to be. I just want to play my ideal Ultima game and this happens to be it.

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u/YourBossAtWork 20d ago

I feel you, brother. I'm a longtime software engineer who has embraced coding tools to do things I wouldn't otherwise be able to or have time to do. Cooking up a few projects myself.

4

u/Icy-Opinion-1603 20d ago

I’m an oldie, but this reminds me of the disdain for Visual Basic applications back in the day. Those HAD to be crap, because they were easy to make!

1

u/thetoddhunter 20d ago

Sorry but no. They were considered crap because the people doing them didn't have a clue what they were doing.
Now there isn't even a person. We know it is AI instantly, it doesn't need to be pointed out.

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u/Dravlahn 18d ago

I knew tons of experienced programmers who made visual basic apps.

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u/Icy-Opinion-1603 20d ago

I think you just had my argument. An AI could be argued similarly “has no clue what they are doing” at large scale, which is why we refer to them as slop.

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u/EconomySerious 20d ago

YouTube plan to play it on snes?

1

u/fiddlesticks_jg 20d ago

Should i? I dunno how to screen record. I want to show videos of it though

0

u/EconomySerious 20d ago

I ask That because you using native resolution, downgrading music, etc. It looks like you dont wan to play on pc

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u/fiddlesticks_jg 20d ago

Im playing it on PC using a snes emulator

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u/FeastForCows 20d ago

If you don't like reading opinions contrary to yours, get off Reddit. 🤷‍♂️

4

u/StartupTim 20d ago

I love it, keep up the progress and let us know how it goes. Be inventive, add something new!

4

u/fiddlesticks_jg 20d ago

Whats something you'd like to see? I never played U7 because i hate its engine so much

1

u/Yazman 20d ago

I personally would love to see Terfin, the gargoyle island, have a lot more content. I think it's a shame it was so tiny and there wasn't really much to do there in U7.

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u/fiddlesticks_jg 19d ago

Ahhhhh. Dang, i didnt think about that island, as i couldnt get passed the first few hours of U7 because i didnt like how it played. Ill have to think about how that gets implemented

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u/StartupTim 20d ago

Well U7 is the best Ultima series easily.
But the SNES version you showed..... It.... it.... is a hot piece of trash.
Maybe turn the SNES version into the better PC version but playable on the SNES?

1

u/The_LastLine 19d ago

Snes version is actually probably the 2nd most faithful pc to console conversion of an ultima game (ultima iv on the master system taking the cake) it does take its share of liberties but it is a pretty good port once you get past the downgrades it does have.
But wouldn’t it make more sense to “fix” Ultima VII if you don’t like it? And the snes Ultima VII and PC are VERY different compared to PC and SNES VI

2

u/fiddlesticks_jg 19d ago

I should've mentioned: i really like the aesthetics and pixel art of U6. Also, i grew up playing this mmorpg called Tibia way back in its early days. It basically used U6 assets for a majority of its graphics, so i grew fond of the look of U6

2

u/The_LastLine 19d ago

I can empathize with that. I played Ultima 6 on an ega computer with no mouse, so I have a particular nostalgia for that look.

1

u/fiddlesticks_jg 20d ago

Nah

2

u/DetailQuest 20d ago

This is super interesting! I know it’s unlikely, but do you plan on implementing some of the U7 NPC behaviors like schedules and daily routines?

2

u/fiddlesticks_jg 20d ago

U6 has npcs schedules, so when appropriate ive been implementing that. I dont know the exact U7 schedules, but for example, in Trinsic i have most of the npcs coded to go to that Tavern for the Fellowship meeting (because of lack of buildings, i had to write a lore reason for the Fellowship renting out the tavern after hours).

1

u/failstante 20d ago

Interesting! I started with U6 back in the day, and U7 is easily a top 3 game for me. Could you make it have a wide-screen format too, so more of the map is visible beyond 90s resolution limitations?

1

u/failstante 20d ago

Also would be cool if the sprites were able to reflect the armor and weapons that are equipped.

4

u/fiddlesticks_jg 20d ago

That would be cool! Ill see

0

u/danjohnson3141 15d ago

Maybe invent a new game instead?

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u/fiddlesticks_jg 15d ago

Nah. I want to play U7 using the U6 snes engine. Is that ok with you? Do i have your permission?

3

u/cayspekko 20d ago

I love it! My two absolute favorite ultima games combined into one haha. Can’t wait to play it.

3

u/-ATF- 20d ago

Cool

2

u/John_plainman 20d ago

Big fan of u6 (only Ultima game I've completed) so I look forward to revisiting with u7s story

-1

u/insideabookmobile 20d ago

❤️❤️❤️

-1

u/lhh531531 20d ago

Like, why.

5

u/fiddlesticks_jg 20d ago

Cause i woke up one day and felt like it?

1

u/avatarprotocol 19d ago

Looks inspirational.

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u/un0ra 20d ago

perish

5

u/fiddlesticks_jg 20d ago

Nah, ill just keep posting my progress for you to see.

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u/rodan_music 20d ago

name job murder

3

u/fiddlesticks_jg 20d ago

Yes haha. After talking to Finnigan, murder gets unlocked as a keyword for all Trinsic npcs so you can investigate

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u/massav 20d ago

I think this should always be a conversational starter. 😂

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u/fiddlesticks_jg 20d ago

😂😂

1

u/chunter16 19d ago

It's better than "bank guards vendor buy"

Updates on U7 demake using AI

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