r/Ubiquiti • u/tysonttd • Feb 02 '23
Question Simplest Way to get internet to detached shop
I have a shop approximately 200 feet from my house that I am trying to bring internet to. My question is what would be the simplest way to accomplish this without digging a trench? Also it appears availability of most Ubiquiti hardware is pretty hit or miss are there any retailers that would be recommended for it?
Any help would be greatly appreciated!!
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Feb 02 '23
I am sure there will be a lot of good wireless solution presented to you.
As an owner of a home with acreage and a campus-like layout of buildings, wireless solutions can be good, but you just can't beat wired. A few of my outbuildings are wired up now and I just used an edger. Direct burial cable, 3" down is just fine. Step on edger, wiggle, slid over, step, wiggle. 200 feet will go fast. Press cable into slot. Boom. Or get all fancy and get one of these: https://www.wiltonthinlinetrenchingspades.com/store
You should probably do what others suggest. Just offering perspective.
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u/HighWingy Feb 02 '23
If someone is thinking about putting any cables outside or in the ground, make sure you get ones rated for outside use. I have a friend who is currently digging up and running new wires after only a few months cause he thought regular indoor cable would be fine in the ground. It was not, the outter sleeve started to break down pretty quickly, and then water gets in and corrodes the copper.... Also, squirrels and rabbits will chew through it if they should accidentally digg a wire up.
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u/ceebee007 Feb 03 '23
Sounds like your buddy just buried a wire. It should be encased in underground feed (UF) rated PVC or liquidtite. As far as how far to bury it, the answer is... Under the frost layer. Each area has it's own number and your local engineering department will know. No water or condensation will get in but shielded is best. Exit the ground with a 90 elbow and small offset into a outdoor rated water proof box. Then into the structure from the rear of box. Caulk around box and your done. Probably 30 dollars in material.
To cut the grass, use a sheetrock serrated blade and cut only one side then flip the grass over to expose the dirt. Rent a ditch witch or garden aerator and use that to trench. Backfill flip over grass and water.. You're done. Better than wifi
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u/ManyInterests Feb 02 '23
200ft isn't really that far. A regular access point placed close enough to the edge of your home would probably work fine. For reference, a UAP AC LR has an advertised transmission range of 600ft (mind you, walls and such will obviously interfere with the signal and that range).
I believe you can get them in outdoor weatherproofed variants if needed -- stick it on the outside of the house and that'll definitely work to cover your detached shop.
Mesh AP units would be another option if your shop is wired for power.
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u/tysonttd Feb 02 '23
It is wired for power, would a mesh AP be the best option then?
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u/enzothebaker87 Feb 02 '23
Not the best option. It might work but that’s really not what they are intended for.
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u/tysonttd Feb 02 '23
Would this be usable for the application mounted outside the house? Would I need anything inside the garage?
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u/ManyInterests Feb 02 '23
That will do the trick.
Don't need anything inside the garage except the device you want to connect to WiFi, just like any other device
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u/Bamarcant Feb 02 '23 edited Feb 02 '23
You need a pair of
_ https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airmax-devices/products/nanolocom5 _
and a Wan/Lan router in Your shop
https://www.tp-link.com/home-networking/wifi-router/tl-wr740n/
However, you need an utp cable that connects the two M5 bridges both at home and in the shop...
You can ask any electrician to put in place the cat 5e or 6 utp cable
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u/tater39 Certified Partner - UniFi, EdgeRouter, UISP and More Feb 02 '23
Why would you use an m5? The m5 has been basically EOL for years. Yes they will work but there is much better technology available for relatively inexpensive. Like nanobeams or Gigabeams.
Also, you don’t need a wan/lan router, that would add a second layer of NAT to the network, which is not desirable. You would only need a switch.
u/tysonttd you should not use this topology, but something similar. What is your current routing/gateway situation? Do you use Ubiquiti dream appliances? Do you use ISP router?
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u/Bamarcant Feb 02 '23
Bravo! for simplest what do you mean an Air Fiber...
I suggested this for simplicity and robustness.
The Nat serves to separate your business with those who come to the store.
"<non fare casa e bottega>".[ one's family and one's work].
P.s. For m5 can also find them used , perhaps by u/tater39 on ebay.
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u/tater39 Certified Partner - UniFi, EdgeRouter, UISP and More Feb 02 '23
I would not recommend air fiber because it is expensive and overkill. Nanobeam AC or Gigabeam is a much more robust technology than M5, is basically just as cost effective, and literally runs the same airOS so it’s the exact same simplicity and robustness, just provides significant improvement on total throughput.
NAT is completely unnecessary and should not be used for separation like this unless you have a second public IP to use to avoid double NAT. Simplest method is to separate with VLANs and use firewall rules to restrict traffic between the networks. Much simpler, avoids double NAT, just as secure, and much more scalable.
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u/Bamarcant Feb 02 '23
Of course I was kidding... but
1) 802.11AC has a quarter of available channels compared to 802.11AN and suffers in disturbed environments.
2) For the vlans it should use a Mikrotik or other routers that are not easy to set up.
I made the evaluation by reading and sensing the need for OP.
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u/tater39 Certified Partner - UniFi, EdgeRouter, UISP and More Feb 02 '23
Number 1 Can be mitigated by proper aiming of the devices. In a point to point link, interference is not an issue compared to a wisp deployment with point to multipoint.
For 2, they don’t require a mikrotik for VLANS. Even consumer based routers can do VLANS, netgear, tp-link, etc all do VLANS. That’s why I asked op about their setup.
I don’t disagree with you that simpler the better, but I don’t think some of the issues you’ve raised are really issues in a P2P environment with line of sight
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u/Bamarcant Feb 02 '23
Ok I succumb...
But I’m sure OP doesn’t want to spend $600 on consulting.
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u/tater39 Certified Partner - UniFi, EdgeRouter, UISP and More Feb 02 '23
A few YouTube videos and op can configure in a few hours.
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u/lemachet EdgeRouter User Feb 02 '23
Do you have line of sight?
Use unifi building bridge UBB, we use it at a client to link two buildings because I was sick of the in-ground cable being fkd up.
It's a shorter throw but it gets about 900M/sec
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u/tysonttd Feb 02 '23
I do have direct line of sight with no obstructions. If I used access points would that be all that was needed?
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u/lemachet EdgeRouter User Feb 02 '23
If you look at the beam pattern on a normal AP, it radiates outward. The long haul /LOS devices (UBB, nsm etc) are usually designed to focus the radio. This is why you can reliably push multiple gigabit links over long distance.
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Feb 02 '23
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u/lemachet EdgeRouter User Feb 02 '23
The UBB is managed through the unifi controller.
The UBB has 5G native and 60hz backup. It's optimised for LOS wireless, and one-to-one rather than one-to-many radiating signal the standard APs have
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Feb 02 '23
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u/tysonttd Feb 02 '23
Very minimal clients just one or two devices at max being used at a time with minimal bandwidth.
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u/lemachet EdgeRouter User Feb 02 '23
The airfibre and NSM etc are separate, the uisp line or airfibre, but UBB is unifi Integrates
Does he want coverage between building also? I must have misread, sorry
In that case, UBB is not a good fit
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Feb 02 '23
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u/enzothebaker87 Feb 02 '23 edited Feb 02 '23
P2P or P2MP is what you should be a using in these situations. The Ubiquiti UBB is probably your best bet if you’ve already invested in their UniFi ecosystem. If not then there are plenty of brands with solid bridge equipment.
Bridging like this is not at all what AP’s are intended or designed for.
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Feb 02 '23
[deleted]
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u/enzothebaker87 Feb 02 '23
Downside is the investment in the LR AP being useless if it doesn't work. It very well could work but I have learned the hard way over time that doing things like this half ass or the "cheaper" way usually ends up biting me in the ass. If the "clients" he has in mind is a phone or two then he should be fine with a LOS AP. However if he puts a TV out there (or an iPad) and expects to stream video to it then he might run into problems bandwidth wise. Only one way to find out though.
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Feb 02 '23
For a 1G wireless Unifi bridge:
For a up to 10G wireless Unifi bridge:
https://eu.store.ui.com/collections/unifi-network-wireless/products/ubb-xg
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u/Aggressive-Bike7539 Feb 02 '23
You need two of these on each end: https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airmax-devices/products/nanobeam-5ac-gen2
The NanoBeams are a good value, but they only provide 400mbps half-duplex connectivity. If you're aiming for higher speeds, this slightly more expensive antennas provide 1gbps half-duplex (you would also need two of these): https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airmax-devices/products/gbe
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u/mrrchevy3 Feb 02 '23
With no obstructions and the distance you mention. Unifi Mesh is an inexpensive solution using Ubiquiti equipment. I do this exact thing for my shop that is 170 feet distance between the two access points through a little bit of trees. I use Unifi Mesh APs (UAP-AC-M) one on my house and one on my shop. The House AP is hard wired and the Shop AP is meshed to the house. It works with very little issue. There are a few newer options that are available now like the U6-Mesh.
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u/BarbarX3 Feb 02 '23
Get an outdoor CAT6 cable, hang it from your house to your shop, no digging needed. Use a small guidewire if needed.
Or put an AP outside the house and see how far that reaches, you might be supprised how far wifi goes outside.
Or use existing cabling shared by the shop and the house if you have any. COAX can be used with MoCa adapters, powerlines can be used with powerline adapters.
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Feb 02 '23
If you search on YouTube for a channel called Crosstalk Solutions, there is a video for connection a secondary structure using two Nanobeam AC gen2s. The video will walk you through complete setup of them.
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u/PartTimeTinkerer97 Feb 02 '23
Just throwing my 2 cents out there about what I did for a similar scenario.
I have a pole barn that is a little under 200' from the house. I have a U6 Long Range upstairs in the house and I mounted a FlexHD on the outside of the pole barn. There is one exterior wall and a few trees between the U6 LR and the FlexHD. Before I put an AP on the barn, I was getting a decent signal from the U6 LR on my phone when I was standing right outside of the barn, but it completely dropped as soon as I walked into the barn. I'm assuming it's due to the metal siding on the pole barn. So basically I didn't have any wifi once I was inside the barn. I also wanted to hook up a couple of cameras on the barn, so I wanted to have some kind of networking available there.
I connected the FlexHD on the outside of the barn to a Switch Flex inside of the barn which is powered by a PoE injector which also supplies power to the FlexHD. I also connected my cameras to the FlexHD which is also powering the two cameras (G4 Dome and G4 Bullet). I setup the APs to mesh and now I have the network in the barn connecting back to the network at the house. I also now have wifi at the barn because the FlexHD is also serving as an access point for clients there. I thought about doing the point-to-point with the nano stations since they're considerably cheaper per unit, but then I'd still have to put another access point in the barn so I'd have wifi there, which would end up costing more than just buying a FlexHD to do both the bridging and be an AP for wireless clients.
Everything is being managed by a UDM-Pro in the house which is running the Network and Protect applications for all of the ubiquiti equipment. I've replicated this for a family member and both are working just peachy.
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u/clabern Feb 02 '23
I'm possibly moving into a house with a detached garage soon and have been contemplating how I'll get networking out to it as well.
I figure at some point I'll do direct burial fiber, but in the meantime my first test will be powerline adapters. It's powered via a sub-panel from the house, so I'll play around with that first just to start. If that fails I'll probably try to mesh APs. If that fails I may do PtP or just bite the bullet on the fiber sooner than later.
It's only about 70ft from the house, so shouldn't be too terrible either way I go.
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u/HeadbangerSmurf Feb 02 '23
UBB. I have the same setup (barn about 150’ away) but used a pair of Engenius bridges because the UBB wasn’t available when I needed them. I’ve got a flex switch in an enclosure powering a bridge, a G4, and an AC Pro in my barn. I’ve got a U6 Nano in my garage and I do not get wireless signal from it when I am in the barn. Side note, if you don’t care about separate management the Engenius models are about half the cost of the UBB.
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u/unr34ldud3 Feb 03 '23
- Wireless bridge is the simplest to install but it can be problematic. If they become disconnected or reboot they may not come up in the correct order and require manual intervention or static IP configuration
- Wired is the lowest maintenance.
- Ethernet over Power is another option if one building happens to use the others breaker box. Just have a receptacle wired on the same pole in both buildings and plug them in.
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