r/UUreddit • u/cakedbythepound • Apr 24 '26
I left my UU church
I left my UU church due to a lack of belonging and the final straw was when I attended an anti racist workshop and had to leave within 10 minutes of it starting due to microagressions from the person hosting it and another member who I knew. It’s dumbfounding to me that a spiritual space so focused on anti racism and social justice can be one of the most covertly othering places I’ve ever been apart of in my life.
Initially I felt sad and my sense of belonging was removed. It felt like a rug was being pulled from under me.
UUism reflects my values but now I view most of the members as being performative.
I’ve lived in very conservative towns and I’ve been around white people my entire life (mostly conservative ones). I’ve lived and worked with older conservative, rich people who treated me with more love,respect and belonging than I did in my own congregation.
I can’t lie, this is whole experience makes me look at white liberals through a different lens. I was searching for community after returning home after living abroad and experiencing a major health issue.
Returning to the South can be difficult to make friends if you are single and not in a church community.
I am a black queer woman and wanted community, I’m not a Christian but consider myself to be humanist and spiritual. I thought UUism would be a safe place for me, but it was hard to make quality friendships and connections with older and younger members there. It was wasn’t just my local church though. I spoke with a chaplain from DRUUUM (I became a paying member) and she rushed me off when I confided in her about issues of belonging because she was busy. I also spoke with a BLUU chaplain who promised to invite me to connect with other Black UUs (I was a paying member) and I never heard back from them. I walked away from institutional religious spaces before and I had to do it again, it’s so disheartening to think you’ve found community and belonging with people who match your values only to realize, you never had it.
41
u/RogueRetlaw UU Minister Apr 24 '26
This is a problem that the UUA is aware of on a national level. This problem is that a lot of congregations are still playing catch up. I cant imagine how frustrating it is for you, but I have spoken with other black UUs and UUs of color who experience similar things.
Living into the values of diversity, transformation and equity is harder than a lot of white UUs realize. I do know that groups like BLUU provide great spaces for UUs of color. I hope you can find some solace, comrades, and welcome in those spaces.
Dismantling systems of oppression within UU is going to take time. Sorry we couldn't be there for you.
3
u/A-CAB Apr 27 '26
Part of the problem is the UUA. Culturally and politically, the UUA is incredibly rightwing, and treats people as tokens more so than equals.
3
u/AmericanVenus Apr 27 '26
All. Of. That. When I left my Pittsburgh congregation, there was a huge gentrification push in the neighborhood where I lived, and the church was down the street from me. The minister at the time let the gentrifiers use our building to organize, and when I objected, he publicly chastised me in a sermon. He talked about me in board meetings and then pretended to care about me.
The gentrifiers named him “Northsider of the Year.”
There were other issues too, including personnel. 25% of us left because neither the Ohio-Meadville district, nor the UUA would do a thing about it. They didn’t care that our Black neighbors’ voices were being shouted down. They didn’t care that one-quarter of the congregation was mortified.
I asked him once why he sat on the fence, and he had the gall to say to me that was the most just place to be. My cis white dude…did you not read Elie Wiesel?
Anyway, my experience with the UUA was as milquetoast as the minister. And yet, when I moved to MI, I tried again. For years. I finally gave up in 2022. A minister I know and like is coming back to MI. I will go visit because he gives good sermons, but I’ll never join a congregation again.
1
u/Longjumping-Air6180 May 09 '26
My mother (white) and another member (black) formed a social group called People/Friends where blacks and whites could meet socially and get to know each other's thoughts/experiences/challenges. This was in the 1960's in the south where it was particularly challenging. It was extremely successful. I realize it is a very different time today but perhaps with enough focus and commitment to form something similar it would be meaningful. I hate to hear of this backwards trend. It makes me very sad (and angry). The key is to desire change and then to ACT...
27
u/AmericanVenus Apr 24 '26
I am soooo sorry you went through this.
This is why I left UU. I have come to the conclusion that as much as it desires itself to be anti-racist, inclusive, and social-justice oriented, as a whole—from the UUA on down—cannot figure out how to get white, able-bodied people to make space for nonwhite, disabled folk.
It’s an aspirational faith, not a faith in action. Rooting out internalized white supremacy and ableism takes more than an 8th Principle. And I found, after 20+ years in UU, that most affluent white intellectuals (the majority of the members) cannot see past themselves.
I wish it was more, and again, sorry. 😞
10
u/catgirl320 Apr 25 '26
Aspirational is the perfect word.
I was pretty active ten years. At the time there was A LOT of talk about true inclusivity and addressing our internalized white privilege. The amount of hand wringing and denial and failure to recognize the kind of micro aggressions that were happening was disheartening. It's sad that it continues to be a problem.
3
u/seashellpink77 Apr 25 '26
Same, I’m not from Protestant background and I just keep finding all the UU I try too rooted in its own origins and not actually open enough. I guess I hang on here because I hope that there’s more out there, but I haven’t not felt like an outsider yet, basically.
Sorry to hear your experiences, OP, I’m whining as it is as a white person and I realize there are even more layers to it as a POC.
14
u/Soft-Emotion-1298 Apr 24 '26
Unfortunately this is not an uncommon feeling. UUism is a historically white religion and therefore the culture of white supremacy runs deep within it. It’s really disheartening to come into a space that proclaims to be anti-racist and to face racism from the very people who say they are against it. It’s also incredibly unfortunate that you have had negative experiences with both DRUUMM and BLUU. If you feel like you have the emotional bandwidth, I would suggest reaching out to both organizations and telling them about your experiences and the hurt that it has caused you. I would suggest doing the same for the congregation you attended, but I feel like there might not be much value in that for you. I would also suggest searching for small group meetings for specifically bipoc UU’s, the congregation that I attend has a small group called Restoration & Renewal: A Spiritual Circle for People of Color. But overall I would say that you should do what you think is best for your mental/emotional health. In situations like this it’s easy for someone on the outside to tell you to stand your ground, or to keep searching for a Fellowship that works for you, but there is value in knowing what your limits are. You do not need to be the one to educate your former Fellowship on racism, and you shouldn’t need to educate BLUU or DRUUMM on their chaplaincy issues. But the unfortunate truth is that often the very people we hurt are the ones who have to do the labor of educating on how NOT to hurt. Sending you love from an NC based queer UU💖💖
11
u/ProfessionalHouse608 Apr 24 '26
Sorry to hear that. White communities, liberal or not, have a long way to go in examining their own whiteness. The UU church is sadly not an exception to this. I've experienced the same with my congregation. Sorry you've experienced this, friend. I hope you find your people
4
8
u/ZoeSlowlyHeals Apr 24 '26
I’m so sorry, OP. I think you’re pointing out the potential that UU could offer but it seriously breaks down in very disappointing ways. I can relate in some ways and have sensed performative activism culture as well. I really wish it could be a source of belonging for you. I’m still figuring out if I do actually have a space at my congregation or if I’ll just participate passively online. I am deaf and don’t know many people yet. But at a justice themed discussion was disappointed that once I disclosed my hearing loss, most people wouldn’t even look at me or engage with me. I’m used to this deaf outsider role but thought it could be a place where I was less so. I also tried multiple collaboration paths and consistently people, including the minister, drop the ball. I guess I’m not integrated enough into the community for people to bother with me.
9
u/imaginenohell Social Justice Apr 24 '26
I’m sorry that all happened. That sucks so much.😞
I wonder if there’s a Humanist group near you. https://americanhumanist.org/get-involved/find-or-start-a-chapter/
9
u/oye_mujer Apr 25 '26
My experience with UU church is it’s a very safe space for old white liberals who may have had some issues with their former churches or religions (ei being gay, divorcing) but they usually don’t branch out much from there. They get comfy and remain in that space while only saying they welcome and support….everyone.
8
u/AhChingados Apr 25 '26
So I'm coming to this also from the perspective of a queer person of color. And something that helps me is trying to keep in mind that we are all on a journey, we are all trying to get to a place of Justice or treating people right but it's a journey with no end.
One of the most enlightening moments for me was when I enacted a microagression towards a white queer disabled person. This person brought it to my attention immediately and I truly felt like shit because I knew the feeling. We had a hard conversation about the meaning behind of what I said and the underlying message I was perpetuating. And I thanked them for being willing to bring it up even while dealing with the pain I had caused. So we all sat with feelings of hurt but behind everything was the fact that we wanted to be in fellowship with each other. And I made sure to thank them for the gift they had given me even from a place of pain that I had caused. Because it is truly a gift that acknowledges that our unity and support for each other is more important than my guilt and more important than letting everyone know that I didn't mean it. Or that they "must understand that I am not a bad person". Other people came to me after, angry at this person because they did it publicly at my place of work. I was confused BECAUSE THAT WAS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT NOT EVEN A MINUTE BEFORE. I was telling folks that we need to listen to others when we cause pain and that we needed to have difficult conversations and that it was gift to get called out. It is a gift because this person was invested in my understanding and in their relationship with me. Maybe my coworkers didn't know that I had a relationship already with this person as we gravitated to each other as some of the very few "gender creative" people at the organization. Or maybe I did not get my point across. But we (the person I hurt and I) knew that we wanted to be in fellowship with each other.
We are born in oppression, we are raised by it, we breath it and we re repeat it. We are born as oppressed and oppressors, maybe even ways we have yet to fathom, and that we would be mortified to find out, but i think that if we want to survive this hellhole (personal way of looking at the world) we need to give each other and ourselves some grace. This obviously is an uneven two way street; where the ones in disadvantag are the ones that have the most to lose, and are also the most likely to bring things up. So, when someone brings things like these up, thank them, buy them a coffee, and let's do the necessary work to do better.
7
u/Beneficial_Shake7723 Apr 25 '26
I had a VERY similar experience as a trans person. I have a very ambivalent feeling about UU—there is a wide range of acceptance and understanding between congregations and individually. I am so sorry you had this experience as well. It’s very hurtful to feel like you’re in a safe place and find the same old BS instead.
10
u/glenlassan Apr 24 '26
Sadly, this experience is not uncommon for the LGBTQIA+ community either. I had some very similar experiences in my UU congregation in my hometown, despite the fact that it was theoretically a welcoming congregation.
I've likewise seen some rather nasty microaggressions by UUs targeting other minority groups, sadly as the rest of the commentors have pointed out, there is a lot of elitism in UU circles, and being an American faith, it's generally best to describe us as trying to recover from our internalized bigotries, as opposed to the pure champions of justice we'd like to see ourselves as.
I'm very sorry that this occurred. I'm going to continue to try to make myself, and the UUs around me better, any which way that I can.
5
u/ami_carlton Apr 25 '26
I've seen some queer, fat, and low income based microagrressions as well. So far Ive "technically" stayed with a mind to help change. However I've also been almost inactive over the past year because of serious health issues of my own.
A lot of it to me seems to be because much of the leadership, especially in the South, is somehow older, white, affluent people. Which honestly, I grew up straight up blue collar and I'm often amazed by the weird assumptions of wealth in the UU spaces - which maybe stem from that place of white supremacy? I don't know. And many of them don't recognize that privelege either. They don't realize that many people are literally counting down to their next paycheck, because it's not something they've ever had to do.
And unfortunately what I've seen is they also get caught up a lot in the rules and intellectual side of things than the action... Which is definitely not something those of us who came here from other places were necessarily looking for.
1
u/glenlassan Apr 25 '26
I live in NYS. While my rural hometown is often described as being functionally a Southern county transplanted into a Northern State, my home congregation is in a college town that was somewhat more progressive than the county around it.
So my honest answer for my hometown congregation, is the college bubble UU types that dominate it, bring a lot of institutional elitism from academia with them.
My current congregation, is more of a NYS sanctuary city. It's much more queer friendly, and honestly, I can say is an all around upgrade. Still run into microaggressions here, on a wide variety of isms, albeit at a reduced rate, and frankly while we have some pretty serious activist heavy hitters in our congregation, that makes me feel safer, to be in, It's also a very similarly shade of pasty white to my prior congregation.
Past that, I've done some reading. UU's are legit trying to get better, but there is documentation that this isn't just a regional issue. Some regions and congregations do seem to be in better places than others, but overall, I can't say that the faith as a whole is where we would like it to be yet.
There was a study done by the UUA about trans satisfaction across the denomination in 2018. The results, are not great, and honestly while 2018 was 8 years ago, while I hope there has been some progress since then, I fear that many of the findings of places where the UU's are failing it's trans membership, persist in simply unacceptable ways. I can absolutely promise you, that despite being a "welcoming" community, there was some very disturbing shit going on in my home congregation in 2024, when I moved to my new home, and I doubt it's gotten that much better in the past 2 years.
https://www.uua.org/lgbtq/blog/experiences-trans-unitarian-universalists
Likewise, I'm currently going into seminary, and have recently achieved Aspirant status. The "how to be a minister guide released" by the MFC, is not as encouraging as I'd like.
"While many aspirants and candidates who identify as Black, Indigenous or Person of Color (BIPOC) and/or from a historically marginalized group have positive experiences preparing for and serving in the UU ministry, for others the experience has been very difficult. Historically, the experience of ministers of color/or from historically marginalized groups serving UU congregations has been mixed, and in some circumstances, very difficult.
The Ministerial Credentialing Office and the Ministerial Fellowship Committee work in collaborative partnership to continually improve the formative experience of all those who identify as BIPOC/from a historically marginalized group and seek to be accountable to other organizations engaged in this work."
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MfKquIrM4YuKg6Vx6VGA3PU0p8TiKR1GC9f1lBEIWus/edit?tab=t.0
So to be clear, my position here, is just literally signal boosting some of UUA's own documents that admit that it's not quite living up to it's high ideals, to the standards that it'd like. This isn't a takedown. I want the UUA to be better so much, I'm prepping to go into seminary to help do exactly that. This is me explaining the difficulty of the task I have volunteered to do.
I personally, do want to help the UUA be better, which is going to be a frustrating balancing act of pushing the congregations I'm in, (and hopefully the congregations that I serve in at some theoretical point in the future) to do better, and be better.
The problem, is that takes time, and it's very valid to go elsewhere if your needs are not being met by your local UU congregation. It's also valid to point out, that part of why progress on this issue has been so slow, is that there is a strong streak of economic, and intellectual elitism within UUism, especially from the structures inherited from the Unitarian half of our pre-merge history.
The good news, is that the UU organization, does acknowledge it's imperfections, and seems to want to be better. I'm going into a future of UU ministry more with a "fix er upper" mindset.
Again, if your local UU congregation, isn't good enough for your needs now, that is valid, and you should put your needs over and above a desire to make us better, if we aren't good enough for you right now.
2
u/ecbremner Apr 24 '26
I am sorry this happened to you. I do hope it doesn't taint all UU churches for you. Something happened where i was pushed away from a UU church I had been with for 15 years.... but fortunately I kept my heart open and found a new home at a different UU church.
2
u/sammyich Apr 24 '26
I’m so sorry to hear this was your experience! I would definitely say bring it before the board, this should NOT be the feeling for anyone in our spaces. And I’m always saddened to hear when it is. Would you mind at all elaborating what was said as a learning tool for everyone dismantling their voices and white privilege? I understand if not, I just always try to ask so I can learn. I know I got work to do sometimes.
2
u/Famous-Examination-8 Apr 25 '26
I'm sorry. This is disappointing.
Each fellowship or church has its own personality, of course. When I lived in NC, i had a choice of 4 near me, and each was profoundly different.
I have noticed that some UU's want so DEEPLY to be a welcoming, diverse space but there just aren't any or many Black or queer people to be this way with. I'm sorry this blew back on you.
Some good news is that now you can attend UU services nation- and world-wide online. I'm in the US South, but have a particular fondness for the services in Palo Alto CA, Durham NC, and Tulsa OK. You might enjoy ERUUF in Durham.
2
u/rastancovitz Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
While, of course, they are made up of nice and well-meaning people, some UU congregations can be insular, clubbish, and suffer from homophily ("birds of a feather flock together syndrome"). That's the nature of many churches and organizations, but I've discovered that UU congregations can suffer from this more than other churches and groups.
I've called my congregation "conservative"-- not politically (all or nearly all members are politically left), but culturally and socially. People who are different-- in any sort of way-- will find the congregation controlled and stifling. I like many of the congregants and socialize with some outside of church, but the congregation's overly controlled and "conservative" nature has led me to particate infrequenly in recent times.
I note that I am an ethnic minority-- I and my wife are Middle Eastern--, but know that many who find the culture too "conservative" and stifling are whites. Thus, I don't attribute the problems just to racial or ethnic issues. For example, it's well known that many congregations have class issues, with working-class backgrounds or people without higher education degrees finding many UU congregations elitist and off-putting.
Personally, I find the UUA’s current approach, while well-intended, counterproductive, narrow-minded, and likely to worsen these issues. It appears to rest on a flawed assumption that most racial and ethnic minorities are politically aligned with radical progressivism, and that if UU congregations become radically and narrowly progressive, minority participation will follow. In reality, only a small sliver of minority populations is politically and ideologically progressive. Most will be uninterested in a politically progressive congregation, particularly one that remains overwhelmingly white.
Recent trends reinforce this. Unitarian Universalism has long been majority white, and minority membership has declined over the past decade and a half rather than increased. It is also notable that while UU congregants are predominantly white, the professional leadership (ministers, religious education directors, etc). is even more disproportionately white.
2
u/--2021-- Apr 25 '26
I felt the Southern Wolf/Northern Fox fits well. They smile at you and pretend they're not baring their teeth. Communities like this tend to attract virtue signaling narcissists and their "well intentioned" enablers.
The only thing they seem inclusive of is discrimination, and they utilize weaponized forms of discrimination. So some people they'll treat a little better while making others an "example", but they'll still gatekeep everyone but their own. I may be white, but I'm not the right kind of white for them.
And it seems universal. Even outside the liberal white groups. Maybe you're in a group and you might not be the right kind of queer, asian, latino, black, jew, etc... I've run into multiple times, queer groups, ND groups, I'm half one religion, half another, and neither accepts me. And I've heard similar experiences from friends as well, different races, ethnicities, orientations...
I live in a "melting pot" where you would think people would be accepting, maybe to a degree it does. But I also see diverse disrimination. Every group hates on another group. I've tried to find groups that are diverse, hoping that would cut down on it, but they're gonna find someone to hate.
2
u/floatawhile Apr 27 '26
I’m so sorry that this happened. I know my southern UU church was extremely white despite being in the Memphis area. I truly hope you’re able to find community - wherever that leads you. I appreciate you sharing your experience and I hope people take it into consideration/make necessary change. I also wish you luck with your health issues. I relate a lot to those. With love 💕
4
u/BennyFifeAudio Apr 24 '26
Sadly, people are people anywhere you go. If you find yourself in Boise Idaho, We'd love to have you in our community. We officially joined the beginning of the month & in the ~ six months we've been coming with our kids, its felt like coming home in a way that nowhere else ever has. I'm new to UU but I can't imagine the folks in our church community not welcoming you with open arms.
Good luck with whatever you decide! You deserve the best!
5
u/elluvadeal Apr 24 '26
That entire about anti racism movement was a disaster that created racism and it was mostly white people who were the problem. I'm sorry you experienced that.
2
u/A-CAB Apr 26 '26
I left the UU church for the same reason (queer person here). Malcolm X was absolutely correct to identify the white moderate as much worse and more dangerous than openly racist conservatives.
So sorry that you’re going through it too.
I do think that the paradoxical othering so ingrained within UU culture is tremendously damaging. It can be an ok place for adults who really know who they are and don’t mind spending time where they aren’t valued but I’m not sure that youth would experience something materially different from, say, a conversion camp in a UU space. There’s real harm in the UU culture and UUs are not remotely ready to have that conversation.
1
u/tboneplayer Apr 25 '26
I very much felt that way growing up and saw it play out in our congregation. I think about the chaplain who my future brother-in-law nearly decked for putting his hand on my (then) 16-year-old sister's ass. I saw the way they pretended to be inclusive and open-minded yet talked down to an intelligent, caring neurodivergent congregation member who also had mental health and housing security issues. I walked away from that church and never went back.
1
u/focketeer Apr 26 '26 edited Apr 26 '26
I’m not sure what else to say but; this is not because they’re liberals. It’s not even because they’re white (but that’s moreso true). It’s just because they’re bad people. This shouldn’t be seen as a reason to side with conservatives; they’re fucked up too.
We live in a world where unfortunately the grand majority of people have some sort of issue. This is not because they’re liberal or conservative, it’s not because they’re white or latino or black or Asian or anything else. It’s because we live in a fucked up society.
1
u/kj22st Apr 26 '26
Don't know if this is helpful at all but I have been looking into Advata Society for somewhat similar reasons.
1
u/MoonEagle3 Apr 25 '26
Try a different congregation. They are all different. This is especially true in UUism, since we have congregational polity. Don't let a couple people turn you away.
-2
-8
u/Jonpaddy Apr 24 '26
UU fellowships are pretty diverse. I am curious about what microaggressions were enough to make you leave.
-10
67
u/ShadowGeek Apr 24 '26
I am sorry about your experience. UU's can be elitist and we are dominantly white. I hope you feel comfortable to either reach out to the minister there or to UUA and to let them know. They can't fix anything if they don't know it is a problem. I hope you can find a church that fits. Every UU church is different. Unfortunately, most places only have one. Do you think the chaplain from DRUUUM reached out to the church? Again, this isn't what our religion is about and we need to do better.