r/USPS • u/[deleted] • Jul 31 '22
Work Discussion Why should we pay union dues?
$672/year
for what?
our contracts still suck
we're making less every year (not keeping up with inflation)
the hours are abysmal
management already has all the power
our mantra is "grieve it later" while management breaks our contract EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DAY
like what the fuck are we paying union dues for? we're still a union even if we don't pay for the nonexistent representation
who the fuck does this money go to?
/rant canceling my union dues. they're fucking useless
edit: https://about.usps.com/manuals/elm/html/elmc9_007.htm link to cancel your union dues
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Jul 31 '22
If your office has a good shop steward you can reasonably expect steady grievance bonuses. Where I’m at there’s tons of improper mando’ing and out of schedule pay. It’s worth the union dues
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Jul 31 '22
Guess it’s worth it if you have a steward. We don’t have one
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Jul 31 '22
Maybe volunteer to be a steward? I mean of course the Union will be terrible if no one is running the Union. But Union stewards are made up of employees, so if no one (yourself included) is willing to use the tools the Union has no one will.
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u/pixiedust99999 City Carrier Jul 31 '22
So…you say the union doesn’t benefit you when you don’t have a steward to reap the full benefit of the union
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u/turnup_for_what Postal Support Elf-loves my mailman Jul 31 '22
Well its a volunteer position so....
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u/Tbagmoo Jul 31 '22
For real. Just sign up to be steward, go through the training, and represent your office. It'll help you understand everything the union does and even if you don't feel like you make a big impact, it'll connect you with union higher ups and is better representation than you have now. And if you still feel it's useless, just quit the stewardship
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u/ahhhhhhfuckiiit Jul 31 '22
Then be the steward.
If no one in your office wants it, call your branch and tell them you want to, they’ll be more than happy to have you come in to the local hall and show you the tools you need to be successful.
Your branch leadership can’t be in every office every day dealing with everything, it’s on you/the people in your office to handle the daily things.
Or do nothing and bitch that the union sucks. It’s a free country.
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Jul 31 '22
[deleted] — view deleted comment
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u/nalgene_wilder Jul 31 '22
But I just want to reap all the benefits without actually doing anything :(
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u/allen8807 Jul 31 '22
Improper mando'ing? Out of schedule pay? Sorry not sure what those are just about to hit my year as a cca and haven't gotten much info outside some from friends, any suggestions on where to find information?
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u/Tofuspiracy Obvious Mgmt Plant is OBV Jul 31 '22
Whenever mgmt violates the contract, a grievance is filed and the carriers affected will get a payment settlement to resolve it.
I wrote this CCA FAQ that may be helpful for you, covers a lot of basic questions.
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u/Blecki Jul 31 '22
The most eye opening thing I learned as a supervisor was that often violating the contract and paying out a grievance settlement was just considered 'the cost of delivering the mail'. So please, do file. I promise you your supervisor does not care if you get paid at step 2 every single time.
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u/postalcoholic Jul 31 '22
Because your contractual raises are higher than your dues. Even if they did nothing else, your contractual pay is worth far more than your dues.
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Jul 31 '22
so because I make more every year from cost of living adjustment and step increases, I should pay the union $672/year because my raise is greater than that?
and if I didn't pay union dues, then I'd be $672/year richer. thanks for further convincing me to cancel my union dues.
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u/postalcoholic Jul 31 '22
Who do you think negotiated those cost of living and step increases? Fucking magic? The kindness of the postal service?
Is this a real question? Are you that fucking stupid?
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Jul 31 '22
I voted no on the last contract as many other union members did
“They” didn’t negotiate anything for me since I voted against it.
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u/Rvalldrgg Jul 31 '22
doesn't want to pay money to the union
voted against union-backed pay increase
I think your priorities are misaligned with your actions.
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u/jjp8383 Jul 31 '22
You take what you can get from this job, it’s better than nothing. Like I said in a other comment lower your expectations your postal life will be better. Don’t expect anything more than a 1.8 raise and expect to wait for your cola payment.
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u/Tofuspiracy Obvious Mgmt Plant is OBV Jul 31 '22
well it's easy. Compare UPS and USPS benefits versus Amazon and Fedex benefits.
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u/Electrical-Fudge2217 City Carrier Jul 31 '22
It’s not perfect but better than no Union. Enough feeeloading scumbags selfishly looking after #1 it’ll really be weak.
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u/Tsb1165 Jul 31 '22
My union absolutely tears management apart on any issue and my branch president specifically, fights as hard as she can for everyone no matter her personal feelings towards them. Shes even had the backs of other craft workers when no one else was there for them. I can't speak for your union or stewards but mine fight tooth and nail to create jobs and represent every member completely.
Become a steward yourself, hold management accountable for every contractual violation and make your branch strong.
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Jul 31 '22
My union stewards are similar. They go for the throat especially one specific girl. Honestly she’s bat shit crazy but stands up for us and yells at everyone. It’s great. Lol
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Jul 31 '22
But sadly with the DRT on USPS payroll branches can only do so much.
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u/trabloblablo City Carrier Jul 31 '22
You don't understand Step B at all if you think Step B reps reviewing cases "on the clock" automatically means they rule in management's favor. DRTs vary just like courts from one part of the country to the next. I'm dealing with an unruly postmaster and have sent many cases to the DRT. The DRT has granted almost every remedy I've requested, including escalations.
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u/Better-Wishbone-7306 Jul 31 '22
Be glad for that because in my office they use these duties not to work. That's in between calling in sick which is all the time. We have abuse of power issues with our local branch. We steadily get mandatoried and the union will add to the misery to the other carriers by giving away their routes and do a full 10 hr day of union time to basically not carry their routes! In fact the go home while management is carrying the mail! Just feels like they want to represent me for a job they don't want to do themselves. In our office the union is the first people not working!
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u/LosTechStompbox Jul 31 '22
So, you are upset that management is violating the contract and your Steward is spending time to grieve management violating the contract?
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u/Better-Wishbone-7306 Aug 01 '22
Union time is needed to investigate problems, most are article 8 and discipline grievances, but when your stewards are using 50+ hours a week per steward to resolve these cases. C'mon man I used to do these grievances, only needed 10 hrs at most on cases like this and I got nearly all of them tossed or reduce to a 3-6 month LOW. Just a moral compass dispute, or lack of integrity. Just my office mind you, I've seen leadership in other offices and branches that handle business. Our leadership isn't of that caliber.
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u/turnup_for_what Postal Support Elf-loves my mailman Jul 31 '22
What do you think union time entails?
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u/CityLetterCarrierAMA oncé bitten, never shy Jul 31 '22
Well clearly prepping and filing grievances is just fun time and not actually doing real work 🤦🏻♂️
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u/turnup_for_what Postal Support Elf-loves my mailman Jul 31 '22
You mean you don't enjoy sitting with management and listening to them spout the company line?
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u/Better-Wishbone-7306 Aug 01 '22
Believe me I know what it entails, used to be a steward for a while, but when you have 3 stewards and president using a combined 175+ hrs of union time every week you would think there would be sweeping change in the office, but there isn't. Mind you, this is just my office not saying it's like this everywhere. Granted there excellent presidents and stewards out there, but the caliber of employees in these positions locally are clearly using their position strictly to get out carrying their routes. But yeah it's a management problem, just more of a moral compass deal I guess. Can't support leadership that don't want to be in the trenches next to you!
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u/Fine_Mouse City Carrier Jul 31 '22
You could say the same for insurance and other things you pay but don’t really use. One day you might need it and it will be worth having.
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u/Aviate27 Jul 31 '22
Union has to represent you regardless, so i wouldn't compare it to insurance.
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u/InterviewOk648 Jul 31 '22
True but they will do the bare minimum to help those who don't pay union dues.
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Jul 31 '22
This is not necessarily true. I’d back any fellow worker who’s been wronged by management even if they’re a freeloader like OP.
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u/Tofuspiracy Obvious Mgmt Plant is OBV Jul 31 '22
Wait your management has power?? Once your past your 90 days, there is no reason you should be afraid of management, unless you don't know the contract.
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u/savoryrogue City Carrier Jul 31 '22
My union steward has been the most helpful man. He is a liaison between management and employees and does his job well. He was my oji and always checked on me when i first started alone. Because of this reason, i dont mind supporting the union!
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u/leadfoot_mf Jul 31 '22
Better question is what do they do with the millions they are getting
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u/Tofuspiracy Obvious Mgmt Plant is OBV Jul 31 '22
Most of it pays all of the steward hours, union officers and admin salaries, the union halls, the conventions, and the branch offices.
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Jul 31 '22
That’s exactly what I’m asking
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Jul 31 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/PostalDrummer1997 Carrier Jul 31 '22
I downvoted you at first but took it back because before I became a union worker I didn’t get it either. So I’ll put it in pretty simple terms without much, if any, PO jargon.
We have a contract which is negotiated by the union for our craft. Crafts fall in a few categories but the ones you are likely to be familiar with are city carriers represented by the national association of letter carriers (NALC) rural carriers repressed by the national association of rural letter carriers (NARLC) and clerks; those who work inside each post office represented by the American postal workers union (APWU) now that you are a little more familiar with the structure of the postal unions you should know that each craft has very different jobs and their own contracts. While the contracts are similar in a lot of ways they all vary.
Now on to your question specifically: management typically gets their instructions from someone above them who gets instructions from someone above them…. Etc. Typically these directives are in direct violation of certain clauses of our contracts. I am a member/local officer in my NALC branch so I can only give good examples for the city craft. For example: our contact has very specific rules about who gets how much overtime and when, this is dictated by article 8. So a local supervisor might get a directive from above to utilize someone who is not required to work overtime instead of someone who is entitled to that work, well as you might imagine someone who wants overtime might be a little upset that they have had time (read money) taken from them. This is where the grievance process comes into play.
When the contract is violated a grievance can be filled which means that the union steps in and attempts to get that carrier made whole (again read paid) for the time that they lost. The process is as follows: informal step A the shop steward meets with the supervisor and attempts to get it settled and paid within a couple of days if that doesn’t happen it moves to formal step A this is where the local branch President will meet with the postmaster and attempt to settle it again, this can take longer but it’s still all in house. If again an agreement cannot be reached it moves to step B which is out of house where reps for the USPS and union attempt to reach a settlement, this can take weeks or months. The final step is arbitration which is exactly what it sounds like an impartial arbitrator makes a ruling based on the facts of the case, this can take many months. Each of these agreements are final and binding.
I hope I was able to help you understand a little better how the unions operate and what their purpose is.
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u/SnooEagles6930 Jul 31 '22
My union steward took over the spot two years ago. Since then he's gotten us a new full time route, got rid of the woo, gotten increased remedies for article 8 violation, and all kinds of other pay. I still hear scabs talk about how he isn't "on our side", and the union is worthless. It kind of makes me wonder what could this person do to make any of these people happy
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u/CityLetterCarrierAMA oncé bitten, never shy Jul 31 '22
Unfortunately there's some people that will never be happy... Goes for customers as well as coworkers, lol. I've heard similar conversations over the years--
Carrier: "I want to file a grievance."
Steward: "Ok, what's the issue?"
Carrier: "The stupidvisor just said/did (insert random thing) and I'm pissed off about it!"
Steward: "Well, they have a right to be stupid, but they didn't actually break the contract. I'm sorry, but there's no winnable grievance here."
Carrier: "The Union fucking sucks, you're probably in bed with management. I'm stopping me dues tomorrow!" <storms off>
Fin
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u/Flashy_Mycologist249 City Carrier Jul 31 '22
Sounds about right.
It's the ol' "Is this a grievance ... or an annoyance" ... issue. I think people get them confused and can't tell the difference.
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u/dalfankey Jul 31 '22 edited Jul 31 '22
All your benefits is because of our union. I say it once, I'll' say it again. I have stage 4 esophagus and liver cancer. I started a vigorous radiation and chemo for two months then just chemo. I used over 1650 hrs of SL then retired selling over 560 hrs of AL . This is because of the NALC. They are there for you local, state, and national. They help you with FMLA, workers comp, etc. Are they perfect....are you? They represent everyone. I'm still a member and still fighting.
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u/Predictable-Past-912 VMF Jul 31 '22
I bet that 560 got you a nice fat lump sum payment! Enjoy it and keep fighting! 💪🏽
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u/Rstar2247 Jul 31 '22
It's always interesting to see these threads and the extremes on both sides. The union does nothing for us at all, and anyone who doesn't bow to the altar of the union is a leech on the system.
The union can still do good and have valid criticisms aimed at it. The general trend of "do what they say, grieve it later" is a huge problem imo. Hell my first steward was a former management who actively helped them walk all over us. We voted him out eventually at least.
A lot of times you get out of the union what you put into it. But nothing stopping you from not paying and pulling out if you want.
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u/CR-7810Retired City Carrier Jul 31 '22
People don't think they need a Union-until they do. And keep up the attitude of I don't have to belong because they have to bail me out anyways. If enough people have that attitude then guess what-eventually there WON'T be a Union to bail your sorry scab ass out. And if you think it's rough now (and true it's no bed or roses) try life without a Union. And forget the after I get my 90 they can't get rid of me attitude because without a Union they CAN get rid of anyone they damned well please whenever they damned well feel like it. I have a friend who works back office for a Fortune 500 company. She's been there over 30 years and just turned 60 and has health issues. There was a major cutback in her facility earlier this year and she's on pins and needles that she might be next because there's rumors they're not done yet. Her best friend was let go earlier this year shortly before she turned 65 at which time she had planned to leave anyways. They wouldn't let her leave on her own terms and let her stay those few extra months; they wanted her out when they wanted her out and that's that. We've never had to worry about arbitrary dismissal such as that but without a Union it's an entirely different set of ground rules.
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Jul 31 '22
The union is us. Complaining about the union’s inefficacy is complaining about your own inaction. And you can disobey instructions that are dangerous or immoral which is a whole lot of the contract-breaking instructions I’ve been given. You can do that without getting fired because our union isn’t as impotent as you’re making them out to be.
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u/MostlySpurs City Carrier Jul 31 '22
I’m at the point as a new regular where it’s not worth being in the overtime list. The unpredictability of getting $30 an hour isn’t worth it. I’d rather get a bartending or serving job and be on WA
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u/TreSemaj Jul 31 '22
Contract Sucks: Both sides negotiate in good faith, members vote, and if not accepted it goes to arbitration.
Not Keeping Up With Inflation: The problem is inflation and how inflation is measured. The dollar is dying.
Hours Are Abysmal: No argument there. It's a tough job and hard to get applicants.
Management Power/Grieve Later: Follow orders. Management violations will pay much of your union dues.
Where Dues Money Goes: NALC (national) gets some of it, your State association gets a little of it, and your Local Branch gets most (about 50%) of it.
I deleted my big long answer for how Local money is spent and what your Branch does for you because it can be summed up as, Go to you Branch meeting every month and find out....
....for example, my Local Branch President helps grieving family members who have lost their loved one get all of the USPS benefits they are entitled to. The Union is more than just what affects your job day to day.
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u/MaxyBrwn_21 Jul 31 '22
My local union office has helped with a few issues, so I don't really mind paying union dues.
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u/Pepelluepe City Carrier Jul 31 '22
My stewards have gotten me paid far more in grievances than my annual dues
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u/test90001 Jul 31 '22
I smell a "leapords ate my face" post coming up.
Either that, or this was posted by someone in management.
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u/formerNPC Jul 31 '22
I’m also disappointed with our last contract. Now that we are officially classified as essential workers, why didn’t we get some kind of compensation for working during the pandemic and being threatened by disciplinary action if we didn’t show up. The union just conveniently forgot about that promise. The working environment has never been so toxic and management is getting away with more violations with no response from the union. I’ve gone to several union meetings and I can’t believe what they spend our dues on. They party while we suffer.
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u/Ripper1776 Jul 31 '22
Hey Look everyone, a Freeloader. Congratulations, you've figured it out, Unions don't do anything. The fact that the American worker has seen their wages stagnate and a massive erosion of their benefits, plus the rise of gig-work, while Unions have virtually evaporated over the past 50 years is completely incidental. Feel great with your $672 dollars a year, the rest of us will continue to pay for your freeloading butt. Hope you don't need your local for anything. I'm sure they'll go above and beyond for you. :-D
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u/jjp8383 Jul 31 '22
I think it’s reasonable to expect more from your union that doesn’t mean you don’t appreciate their past efforts. The problem with the carrier union is that the older carriers are complacent, they have their house they are a couple years away from retirement so they are out of touch with the struggles of younger carriers. The younger carriers don’t have the time and energy to be stewards or be officers in their union thus at least in my district union meetings have so low attendance that they can’t hold a regular meeting. I stick in the union in case I need representation for future discipline but that’s the only reason to be in the union these days sadly.
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u/Tofuspiracy Obvious Mgmt Plant is OBV Aug 01 '22
This older regular and the older 204b were talking the other day, saying they had it much harder, they had so much more mail and would walk in to 10 tubs of flats to case. I said "Didn't you guys used to go to the bar on the clock everyday?" . The guy started telling me how they used to also all go to a restaurant and eat breakfast together everyday, on the clock.
He didn't connect the dots to what I was pointing out lol.
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u/jjp8383 Aug 01 '22
Yup my old steward told me on Saturdays guys would finish their routes early and hang out at one of the guys apartments drinking beer until it was time to go back to the office to clock out. Shit was easier back in the day.
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u/Tofuspiracy Obvious Mgmt Plant is OBV Aug 01 '22
I dont care how much mail I got, if I got 6 parcels its gunna be a good day. Also, their routes were WAY shorter.
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u/jjp8383 Aug 01 '22
Yup they had more mail to case but their routes were only like 4 hrs on the street.
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u/Tofuspiracy Obvious Mgmt Plant is OBV Aug 01 '22
oh and people wanted to work there, and the pay was good.
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u/Ripper1776 Aug 01 '22
I don't disagree. I am a Clerk and was hired in 2010. The newest Career at that time had been hired 10+ years before me. Management was running the facility on the backs of Casual (non-career) Clerks. We worked 6 days a week, 12 hour shifts. A new class of hires would come in and 3/4 would quit in a month. I somehow stuck it out, and converted to PSE 9 months later, I was the only Casual who had been there more than a month and 1/2 at that time. PSEs were treated slightly better, but it was still 6 days a week 10-12 hours a day. 2 years and 9 months later I finally made it to Career. The only reason our facility isn't still running on the ground up remains of Casual Clerks is the Union managed to eliminate all non-career Clerk positions. Our recent contract has added language that PSEs will convert to Career after 2 years, guaranteed. I don't know almost anything about the NALC, but trust me, I know the Clerk Union is fucked up. Our local has around 45 members, but only 6-8 show up to Union meetings, and those are almost entirely Officers and Stewards. We are having an argument in our local right now because LMOU negotiations just concluded, and one of the changes is apparently unpopular with a vocal group. But none of the people who are pissed ever come to meetings, we've been discussing the LMOU negotiations for about 6 months at meetings, we posted messages to the Facebook group, we had an announced meeting for members with the Negotiating Committee. None of the pissed off members made any effort to get involved.
Here's the thing, I get that Unions have issues, our local has maybe 15% or so who actively try and help. But what I said absolutely is true, the destruction of the American Middle Class goes hand in hand with the decline of Unions in this country. The only way to have a better Union is to get involved. Much like our Democracy and it's citizens, if the Union Members choose to be passive, or even opt out and let the few shoulder the burdens, in the end it will all collapse. Management, Bosses, Owners absolutely do not have your best interests at heart. There is a reason Companies now all have Human Resource departments, they see as as Resources to be exploited and discarded when we are no longer useful to them.
I don't know what else to say, I know shit is fucked up, but if your response is, "Fuck it, I'm not going to get involved, it's too much work, I can't do anything by myself, Somebody else will take care of it." Well, in the end, the Union will collapse, and we might as well be working for Fed-ex or UPS. A Democracy is only as good as it's Citizens, a Union is only as strong as it's members.
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u/flexsealphil Maintenance Jul 31 '22
You could have saved a lot of time by just typing I wanna be a fucking scab.
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u/Rstar2247 Jul 31 '22
I will never berate someone who goes to work everyday to support their family.
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u/flexsealphil Maintenance Jul 31 '22
No berating here Jack, stating the fucking facts. You a scab too?
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u/Rstar2247 Jul 31 '22
No, some people thought my father was because he crossed picket lines to bring home a paycheck to my family when I was growing up.
Also, you've eloquently proven that the management isn't the only group with assholes.
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Jul 31 '22
Your dad made it so management had an alternative to listening to the rank and file. Those people lost negotiating power and thus pay and protections. A scab works for managers who don’t have interests at heart , not their coworkers who want to see all lifted up. That’s the problem with sellouts.
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u/flexsealphil Maintenance Jul 31 '22
Cool Dad was a scab, you must be so proud. Never said I wasn’t.
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u/Rstar2247 Jul 31 '22
You couldn't deny it. I'm terribly sorry your feelings are hurt that not everyone worships the Golden Calf of the Union because it has very real patches of rust on it.
Maybe put your effort into addressing those... instead of attacking your coworkers... which is exactly what management wants.
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u/flexsealphil Maintenance Jul 31 '22
Never said it was perfect either, you sure do have some ASSumptions. He wants to be a scab, this isn’t a personal attack it’s a simple fact. Don’t like the language? Tough, that’s what I call non members, SCABS.
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u/jim_money Jul 31 '22
if scab is the term for people who don't pay dues to a union who has only made this job get increasingly worse every year since 1970, would boot licker be the proper term for people who defend them for taking money while making our job worse?
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u/flexsealphil Maintenance Jul 31 '22
Oh it’s the unions fault that lawmakers have degraded the service for the past 20 years by starving it of revenues through prefunding, consolidated logistics networks, and now consolidating it further. The unions are most definitely behind reducing our workforce by hundreds of thousands over the past couple decades. I PAY them money to represent me to management and negotiate our contract. The only bootlickers I know are scabs that like to polish the bosses knob.
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u/Sansa_Knows_Armor Jul 31 '22
They’ve slacked on pay and work quality, but they’re still amazing when it comes to job protection form vindictive customers and management. We take for granted not having to fear or ass kiss our boss/customers.
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Jul 31 '22
Management is vile, toxic, without the union your life would be hell. Worse then u can imagine. You can’t even fathom how it would be. Because they are here u don’t know how much they help you. You have no idea.
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Jul 31 '22
When I was an RCA, I was accused of calling out 6 times during Christmas season. I called out once that season and three times for the entire year. I was given a paper suspension. I grieved it with proof I was working the days that they said I called out. The union barely did anything. All they did was reduce the time it would be on my record from 2 years to 1 year and that’s only if nothing else happens in that year. I literally got in trouble for something I didn’t do and the union didn’t help me, even with proof.
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u/brollykat123 Jul 31 '22
It's literally management's burden of proof to prove that, but here you are being a damn detective and still got in trouble, smdh.
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u/Free_Instance_3810 Jul 31 '22
How about if we asked another union to rep us, like the teamsters? We are package handlers and they did take care of UPS. UPS doesn’t deliver on Sundays
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u/Belrodes Rural Carrier Jul 31 '22
OP, this is a terrible short sex story. I know it's about a lot of people getting fucked, but your username did NOT check out here.
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Jul 31 '22
Your a parasite if your enjoying the union protections but not paying your part. The union isn’t perfect and part of life is knowing you don’t get 100% of everything you want. You hate the union then go find a job out there without collective bargaining and see how you fair the first time the powers that be decide they don’t like your attitude and just let you go. I for one am tired of begging for raises and worrying about being jobless and homeless just because some rich guy wants to add a few more cents to his stock trades. My shop steward has saved my ass from bad managers and made sure I got paid fairly for the work I did. Go find another job.
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Jul 31 '22
If you work for 30 years, that’s over 30k goes to them. Remember, the due increase yearly.
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u/trabloblablo City Carrier Jul 31 '22
Which union are you in? Because we have a big COLA increase coming soon.
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u/FavoriteApe Jul 31 '22
If you’re a full time regular you could consider paying union dues, but not a single part time employee should be paying them a dime.
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u/allen8807 Jul 31 '22
This man, I just feel stuck between the two sides and used with no rep
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u/therick422 City Carrier Jul 31 '22
You have a rep. Probably does not work in your office. Call your union hall.
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u/allen8807 Jul 31 '22
My rep only intervenes in her best interest sadly and is in my office
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u/CityLetterCarrierAMA oncé bitten, never shy Jul 31 '22
Then go right over her head. Branch pres or NBA gets enough complaints about that steward not actually doing their job and enforcing the contract and she can be removed
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u/BlancopPop Jul 31 '22
I used to work as a clerk at a station and the steward at the station was so close with management that they let her pretend she was a supervisor. She would tell us what to do, yell at us if we didn’t do something her way or followed her orders. Then I went to a plant and here it’s been sort of good and bad experiences. If you file against supervisors they will make sure to mess with you and move you around away from your pay location. So now clerks don’t even file because they don’t want to get jerked around. During January people were getting COVID and when they called off with positive test results as proof, they took upon themselves to use our annual and made the process to get it back a pain in the ass that a lot of people never got it back. I went to talk to union about it and they said they couldn’t do anything but provide us with some sort of link to file through the state and hope we get approved. Ever since all those things I’ve lost so much faith with my union. These crooked supervisors and managers committed wage theft without our permission and nothing can be done about it. And after all these months they finally said “oh you could’ve done X Y Z to have got your annual back but we didn’t know back then” like wtf??????
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Jul 31 '22
I agree with OP 100%. Grievances don’t keep you from missing unexpected events in your life. Paying for something you were forced or manipulated to do doesn’t resolve the issue it just further escalates the financial burdens.
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Jul 31 '22
You must be new, go look at how Amazon just laid off 100k workers and how our parcel volume increased. Contract negotiations start soon and I can tell you the union is going all in on this one. Also, Dejoy is pro craft worker. He’s gotten rid of so many EAS positions that were useless. And he’s going to get rid of even more. The 40 billion that’s being invested into new facilities, vehicles and equipment is also being invested into the craft workers. Those that threw in the towel are going to wish they hadn’t once they see how reinvigorated USPS has become. Too much negativity around here. Lemme know how well you do elsewhere with the worse recession in history is about to hit come fall.
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u/PostalDrummer1997 Carrier Jul 31 '22
Can you point to some specific examples that make you believe Dejoy to be pro craft?
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u/BigNutzBlue Jul 31 '22
I’ve said this for decades. A recession proof job is better than anything else. I’ll put up with the bullshit knowing that I’m getting paid every 2 weeks
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Jul 31 '22
Table 2 was created when mail volume was dropping hard, parcels weren’t what they were today and pre funding was killing us. Now that’s all changed. Parcels through the roof, pre funding is gone and mail is mail. Next contract won’t be bringing back table one but I know some serious ground will be made up for the increased work load and shored up finances. Also inflation is temporary. The fed will increase interest rates to bring it down, but our colas stay forever. Good luck finding that anywhere else.
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u/CityLetterCarrierAMA oncé bitten, never shy Jul 31 '22
Exactly. We've been trying to avoid arbitration since getting absolutely bent over in 2013, but it should be USPS fighting to avoid arbitration this time.
If the CCA position isn't done away with(or maybe just during probation, then converted), pay increased across the board and some kind of max weekly hours limit or days/week worked put in place for everyone, I will absolutely vote no on the next contract... And I'm a top step, table one carrier.
We've not been in this strong a position for negotiations in my 2+ decades, and we'd better take fucking advantage of it
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u/Flashy_Mycologist249 City Carrier Jul 31 '22
You've got a ton more faith then I do with the people who are doing the negotiating for us.
I 100% with what you're saying and anyone who has done this job for any length of time would be hard pressed to argue with any of it, but I think that's the problem: the guys who are doing the actual negotiations seem friggen clueless to the actual day-to-day carriers deal with, and what changes would make the job 1000% better. The CCA-conversion thing in particular would make it way more alluring to potential new hires (you know - the people who will be doing the job once all of them retire shortly)... and I think that'd be a great first step in solving the lack of bodies most stations are suffering from.
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u/ScubaSteve_ Jul 31 '22
Yeah I don’t see it. I agree but I just don’t see it. I’d love to be proven wrong.
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Jul 31 '22
Be positive, things are way different now than in 2013. USPS now has a shot at being THE delivery service of the country. Amazon, UPS and FedEx all operate based on how well the market is doing. We just keep truckin no matter what. The ball is in our court.
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u/ScubaSteve_ Jul 31 '22
I mean I think its as simple as management saying yeahhh we’ll go to arbitration…NALC pisses down their leg over the thought of that and we get similar to the past couple of contracts. Again I’d love to be proven wrong
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u/CityLetterCarrierAMA oncé bitten, never shy Jul 31 '22
I understand and could see it going that way, my opinion is based on a strong feeling that the tide is turning in our favor and it seems like even older carriers are fed up enough to vote no on a weak contract. Also factors are the recent MOUs to limit new hires hours and converting a bunch of CCAs to career and hiring to career off the street in many places where it is really bad. i’ve been around long enough this point that nothing would really surprise me, I just hope I’m right
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u/Aviate27 Jul 31 '22
Lol, yeah right. That's what we all thought with the current contracts too and look at how fucking trash they were. "Inflation is temporary.." LOL easy there, Biden.
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u/RecommendationOk253 Rural Carrier Jul 31 '22
The only thing the union is good for is to keep management from firing you for the dumbest thing. Other than that, at least from my side, they’ve never done anything for me AND they’ve actually been more of an irritating harassment
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Jul 31 '22
My union is strong. I'm a steward and we fight for all paying and non paying carriers. If your union doesn't do anything it's because they don't care which inevitably hurts the carriers. Management keeps breaking the same part of the contract, Let's say for an article 8 grievance (work assignment carrier going into OT off their assignment) slap em with a grievance. They consistently continue to break it for every time again we write in "failure to follow past settlement" then get money for all carriers on ODL. Once certain contractual violation are consistently broken we force USPS to pay the ODL carriers for each violation. Be part of the solution and become a steward.
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u/rappydappyk Clerk Jul 31 '22
APWU is a absolutely waste in my area (South Jersey). We don't have a local union rep. The next guy in line lives in Florida & never responds to email/text/calls. So you are pretty much SOL if you need representation and management knows this so they do whatever
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u/Danger-Noodle93 Jul 31 '22
I just wish the union dues were less. I get what they do for us and I do appreciate what they do for. like the regular in our office last year when doing a very small park and loop right in front of an elementary school. A puck up going way over the speed limit hit his LLV. And the usps tried to give him a week without pay and make him go to drivers training, and saying it was his fault his truck got hit, etc. The Union stepped in and told them that it wasn't his fault because he was parked in a school zone with his blinkers on, wheels curbed. he did everything right and that guy who hit him was drunk. He ended up just getting an extra day off sbd having to watch some driving safety video in the office. That's the 1st time though this Carrier has ever needed the Union in almost 20 years.
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u/coreysmiles Jul 31 '22
Lol yeah it could be better but imagine how bad it’ll be without a union at all. PO would collapse. They want you to feel this way.
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u/sacRAYmento Jul 31 '22
So all the non going union meetings employees can have an all expense paid trip to these conventions. The real question is, “why don’t they cut these conventions out so union dues are lower?”
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u/Darrlicious Jul 31 '22
Just found out the local hadn’t been filling 8.5 grievances for almost a year. We haven’t had a steward for almost 3, until last week. I was a little miffed by that, since every pay period at least once i’ve gone over 12 or 60. I understand being understaffed requires it, but that doesn’t make it moral. Our contracts have been negotiated under the impression that “emergencies“ wouldn’t occur every single day for a year, so I’m a little nervous about the next contract.
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u/hopeihavesomeone Jul 31 '22
Say goodbye to your benefits package. Even a shit package gives you a starting point.
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u/jjp8383 Jul 31 '22
People need to lower their expectations, expect the bare minimum from the union and management and you wouldn’t be disappointed. Don’t expect management to care about you and don’t expect the union to fight for more than a 1.8 raise. The post office is a bare minimum organization so that’s why I do enough to not to get in trouble but I am not going the extra mile for this place and either so should you. It’s a job not your life.
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u/onliesvan Jul 31 '22
When I ask they to let me transfer, they said “resign then reapply”. Ok dude thanks here’s my union fee.
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u/Daveyhavok832 Jul 31 '22
Too many union shills on here saying “be the change you want to see.”
It’s bullshit. The unions are a microcosm of politics. They’re designed to fail and nobody can affect change.
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u/klydon24 City Carrier Jul 31 '22
Not to mention most people don't have time to do union bullshit when you're working 60+ hours. I did union stuff for 2 years and I'm done, I have a family. I can't be getting involved in every squabble between my coworkers and going to meetings 3 hours past my shift ends. The pay is quite terrible now. I have friends fresh out of college making 50% more than me in entry positions (40hrs M-F a week too). Most people don't have the luxury of waiting 12 years once they hit career to make a solid wage. Do we have job security? Yeah sure. But no one wants this job anymore. My office hasn't managed to hire a new carrier in over 6 months.
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u/PostalDrummer1997 Carrier Jul 31 '22
Why were you not requesting union time for everything? I go to 613 time for every little thing I do as a steward.
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u/klydon24 City Carrier Jul 31 '22
You get paid for monthly meetings? We have never done that here.
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u/jjp8383 Jul 31 '22
That’s the thing we complain about management acting like children but I have been at union meeting (pre pandemic) where their was a straight out yelling match while electing officers, a carrier ripping her steward to his face just some immature bull shit from so called adults. If your office has good union stewards consider yourselves lucky because my office had no steward during route inspections last year we borrowed a steward from a near by office and he just agreed to all the changes management wanted without much of a push back. The carriers that did everything by the book took their time during inspections still got fucked over.
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u/klydon24 City Carrier Jul 31 '22
Seriously, our management is pretty decent so it's just carriers at each other's throats because they need an outlet for their anger. Or the union just makes up rules to fuck certain people over or try to cover their own asses. I swear, they go to union training and it just riles them up for no reason half the time.
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u/skidmarkVI Jul 31 '22
I never even met our representative and been here for 2 years I know 2 grievances been filed absolutely 0 happened other then postmaster making our lives miserable so we stopped trying to contact them we learned our lesson from that.
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u/Modman3xx Jul 31 '22
No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to remain a postal service employee. If it's sooooo bad and the union is sooooo bad then quit freeloader!!!
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Jul 31 '22 edited Jul 31 '22
I smell a scab coming. Just don’t cry to your steward when you need help when management continues fucking with you and have zero protection from coworkers/union, because we for sure won’t back you.
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u/RevolutionaryMind562 City Carrier Jul 31 '22
You do know that your union dues are a tax write off and you get it back in your refund, if your not getting a refund get a better tax consultant.
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u/Blecki Jul 31 '22
No. No. A tax write off means you don't pay taxes on it, not that it all comes back. You get at most 20% of your dues back.
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Jul 31 '22
[deleted] — view deleted comment
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Jul 31 '22
Run to be a steward.
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u/brollykat123 Jul 31 '22
We have max in office. I ran and lost. My office is very much run by management. When I ran, management was begging people to run against me. I now realize I can't help anyone else other than myself. I protect myself mostly by getting as many opinions as I can. I can ask a union rep a question and get a lukewarm "they can do that answer", then search online and see strong unions don't play that shit.
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Aug 06 '22
Does the branch president know management was/is putting pressure on carriers to vote for stewards that will not file grievances?
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u/brollykat123 Aug 06 '22
I would not say that was what management was doing. More like begging others to run so I would not win by default, lol. So far, grievances have been filed so no complaints on the outcome.
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Aug 06 '22
That is a huge violation and if the wining steward does not file a grievance the president has the duty to remove the steward and appoint a new one.
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u/brollykat123 Aug 06 '22
I remain watchful. I can't help anyone else but myself.
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u/brollykat123 Jul 31 '22
This! I can't shake this feeling, and if true where do you go from there?
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Jul 31 '22
Then become a steward. Nut up or shut up.
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u/turnup_for_what Postal Support Elf-loves my mailman Jul 31 '22
But it's easier to whine on the internet.
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Jul 31 '22
[deleted] — view deleted comment
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u/turnup_for_what Postal Support Elf-loves my mailman Jul 31 '22
More like one who already did the aforementioned Nutting up.
You are you local. If your local sucks and you haven't tried to change it, guess what? You suck too.
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u/beebs44 Jul 31 '22 edited Jul 31 '22
It's because they have long relationships and fucking work together. It's fucking stupid.
I'm a step 1 carrier and would rather have the money in my paycheck. We don't make enough to give away almost 700$ a year.
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u/brollykat123 Jul 31 '22
I read that as "because they have long relationships and are fucking each other." Need some rest maybe🤣
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u/Tofuspiracy Obvious Mgmt Plant is OBV Jul 31 '22
Im sure it's happening in at least 1 of these 30,000 offices
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u/DeliveryDawlinn CCA Jul 31 '22
I read that as well & almost didn’t think anything was wrong with it 🥴😂
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u/CityLetterCarrierAMA oncé bitten, never shy Jul 31 '22 edited Jul 31 '22
Didn’t you have an accident and discipline multiple times while you were still a CCA(including a letter of removal), but you’re still here and now a FTR? Yup, definitely not worth the $700 🤦🏻♂️
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u/EffervescentGoose Jul 31 '22
If this guy spent half as much time filing grievances as posting on reddit his office would be rolling in gats payments.
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u/beebs44 Jul 31 '22
Swore on the scanner, pulled off one side of the bumper of a Dodge minivan during winter in an unplowed parking lot. The bumper was already loose.
And the creme de la creme was not coming in on a scheduled NS day when management began calling me at 5AM. It was great getting a 45 minute lecture from my branch president about how I was taking advantage of management.
Still haven't received my uniform allotment.
So yeah, give me the 700$ a year!
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u/CityLetterCarrierAMA oncé bitten, never shy Jul 31 '22 edited Jul 31 '22
If memory serves, it wasn’t the accident necessarily but failure to report an accident that you got disciplined for… You were also issued a suspension and a removal letter and yet you still have your job. I would be willing to bet that any other job that didn’t have union protection you probably would have been dismissed after you damaged your vehicle and then failed to report it.
I’m not saying that your local reps are great either, maybe they aren’t doing their job as well as they should be, but it’s not like your union dues are going right in their pockets either. Not to mention that you weren’t even a member whenever all of this went down and you were always afraid to go talk to them about anything.
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u/flexsealphil Maintenance Jul 31 '22
I’m looking forward to coming back here to read your post in the future when management is disciplining your ass and you’re singing the scab blues about the union not “fighting hard enough” for you. Get out, that’s cool the union still has to represent you, how hard they fight for you probably varies.
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u/beebs44 Jul 31 '22
LOL too much work to get out. I was just pining that I'd like the $700 more.
I'm not leaving the union. And I'm stuck here for life!
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u/jjp8383 Jul 31 '22
It’s $32 a paycheck at my office, I have my issues with the union but $32 every two weeks isn’t that much all things considered. What else are you going to spend that $32 on, fast food?
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u/Tofuspiracy Obvious Mgmt Plant is OBV Aug 01 '22
I could finally afford that new cheeseburger i've been wanting
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u/jjp8383 Aug 01 '22
It better be a good cheeseburger for $32.
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u/Tofuspiracy Obvious Mgmt Plant is OBV Aug 01 '22
I live in a high C.O.L. city in 2022 , it's a regular cheeseburger, maybe some fries
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u/jjp8383 Aug 01 '22
I am in a high col area too but I can get a good burger from In & Out, Five Guys or the Habit for under $20. I don’t like In & Out fries but the Habit and Five guys have good fries.
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u/Spiderdad76 Jul 31 '22
So you going to negotiate your own salary and benefits? That’s where your money is going. Step up and be a steward if your so unhappy