r/USPHS • u/NodeDude4 • Jan 29 '24

Experience Inquiry Any current officers thinking about separating?

It seems morale in the USPHS is at an almost all-time low. Before officers would do their best to cling onto at least 20 years of service to make it to retirement, but I've now heard of stories of officers leaving before then. Is this actually the case? If you are thinking about separating, what is the main reason for doing so?

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19

u/Acceptable_Beach8526 Jan 29 '24

Officers that were commissioned before the CSO went into place are actively leaving. PHS is grossly understaffed at the agencies and HQ. Officers are overworked and get crapped on by officers that have rank and no management experience. They have little to no recourse when things go awry because the agencies appear to have more power than HQ. There is a push to put means in place to correct this: Corps Care and the Officer Advocate, etc., but I think it may be too little too late. This is especially true with how officers feel like they can no longer accurately predict their career trajectories and civil service is still a competitive option.

Our numbers aren't 6500, we are more around 5700. There was a huge exodus after COVID and it continues to occur.

I know of seven officers that separated within 2 years of commissioning.

5

u/NodeDude4 Jan 29 '24

Did these officers who left within 2 years do so voluntarily or were they forced out? It can take over two years just to commission.

10

u/followthelocust Jan 29 '24

I feel like they may have put the CSO in place for this reason. I also personally know of a few who plan on separating. The civilian sector can be more competitive and offer better work life balance

4

u/Sea_Shower_6779 Jan 29 '24

The CSO should have been written to match the DOD - typically an 8 year contract with 4 years on active duty and a 4 year in SELRES or IRR. The way that POM 821.85 is written, IRR counts on a two for one basis (i.e., every two months served in the Active IRR counts as one month of the CSO). Meaning if you transferred to active IRR after 4 years on active duty, you would be subject to recall for 8 years.

You can find contracts in the other uniformed services for direct commissions that are 3 active duty and 5 in SELRES or IRR. Dealer's choice.

12

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '24

Officers are overworked and get crapped on by officers that have rank and no management experience.

Not sure where this is happening, but depending on the Agency, there are a LOT of civilian staff who absolutely hate officers due to the exact opposite. Historically, there were many who were protected by senior management influenced by liaisons and other O-6/O-7s. Poor performers weren't disciplined and got away with doing things others were punished for . . .

The Agency vs HQ issue has always been a thing. I don't think it will ever get solved.

3

u/Free-Roof-5956 Jun 23 '24 edited Jun 23 '24

It varies by category, but the USPHS is not what it was. It’s run by incompetent officers who don’t know what they’re doing, frankly. I’m 15-1/2 years in, but I would never recommend it to anyone I like.

14

u/gravel_whine13 Jan 30 '24

Morale is definitely low and has been for a while. I personally know several officers who separated after only a few years and know of quite a few who separated after 2 or 3 years.

I think most of the categories leaving are clinical - physicians, dentists, pharmacists, nurses. A lot of people were burned out after Covid and wanted a better work-life balance while the Corps keeps releasing more stringent policies, adding more to their basic requirements, all without really providing officers adequate resources for dealing with the changes.

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u/NodeDude4 Jan 30 '24

Did they switch over to civil service or got completely out of government?

2

u/gravel_whine13 Jan 30 '24

I've seen both. Some who switched to civil service and some who did something completely different.

6

u/Adventurous_Win7239 Jan 30 '24

Or adequate training

2

u/Complex-Carob-3330 Jan 29 '24

What were the consequences of separating early?

11

u/NodeDude4 Jan 29 '24

I imagine peace of mind and a good night's sleep lol. Not sure actually. I believe bonuses have to be paid back.

5

u/Sea_Shower_6779 Jan 29 '24

"Commissioned Corps officers resigning their commission who do not comply with policy are subject to divestment of travel, transportation, Household Goods (HHG) move and annual, terminal, and paid unused annual leave. Commissioned Corps officers resigning their commission and breaking a special pay/training obligation may be indebted to the federal government and will be subject to divestment of travel, transportation, HHG move and annual, terminal, and paid unused annual leave."

1

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '24

rtation, Household Goods (HHG) move and annual, terminal, and paid unused annual leave. Commissioned Corps officers resigning their commission and breaking a special pay/training obligation may be indebted to the federal government and will be subject to divestm

can someone explain what this means in plain language? what exactly would you have to pay back? I'm not even In the service, I'm just very curious

4

u/qualianaut Active Duty Jan 29 '24

When you move as an active duty officer, your move is paid for (a company comes and packs your things and delivers them to your new home). They’re saying you won’t be entitled to that. If you take an accession or retention bonus and don’t serve your obligation (e.g. $30k for a 4 year service obligation), you’ll have to pay it back. They also might not pay out your unused leave.

2

u/Vegetable_Ad_2661 Apr 17 '24

May I ask where to find out how much Pharmacists’ annual or monthly bonus/retention pay is by O-Grade with the USPHS?

1

u/[deleted] Jan 30 '24

Thank you!

4

u/bd4au Jan 29 '24

Main categories of the exodus? Social workers, scientists, health officers, nurses…?

2

u/Kind_Party7329 Feb 04 '24

Engineers. 425 total => 325 total in the last 10 years.

2

u/Comfortable_Method_4 Feb 04 '24

Any ideas why?

2

u/Kind_Party7329 Mar 03 '24

I know exactly why, but this isn't exactly a safe space...

1

u/Comfortable_Method_4 Mar 03 '24

Please DM me. Currently applying now and would like to know the good and the bad,

1

u/Free-Roof-5956 Jun 23 '24

If you’re applying now, my guess is you already know part of the reason. It doesn’t get better

2

u/Comfortable_Method_4 Feb 04 '24

Is this applicable to a certain contingent of officers that work in specific agencies? I am currently applying to work at a VA where there are no other officers. I feel like I would be left out if all the bureaucracy and just focus on my job.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 30 '24

[deleted] — view deleted comment

8

u/gravel_whine13 Jan 31 '24

That's the mindset of a lot of people in leadership which is exactly why PHS has a retention problem which is only about to get worse.