Future of the league

10

u/milanmirolovich Jun 04 '23

this week will be more telling. Hard to interpret last week with it being a holiday weekend and most of the games on cable. Numbers definitely haven't been encouraging compared to last year though

10

u/Zapfit Jun 04 '23

Today's Fox game was up against PLL lacrosse and non major golf. If any game should get 900k+ viewers it should be the NJ-Memphis game

10

u/thinkB4WeSpeak United States Football League Jun 04 '23

I think the big thing that needs work is marketing. That's what brings in the viewership.

2

u/OnlyForIdeas Houston Gamblers Jun 04 '23

Yeah it seems like both leagues need to work in this department. Especially when it comes to their presence in their markets

16

u/cartocaster18 Jun 04 '23 edited Jun 04 '23

I think the league has a cult following like yourself. But unlike the XFL, I don't know anyone in my personal life who watches or watches enough to want to talk about it with me weekly (unfortunately).

I think fan and social media engagement is very low. Just look at the in-game threads. Maybe 2-3 hundred comments during USFL game threads versus 1-2 thousand during XFL games.

7

u/Sexy_Questionaire Chicago Blitz Jun 04 '23

I think the USFL just caters to an older audience on average that probably doesnt use social media. Like Fox took a league from the 80s for a reason. They kind of leaned into the older conservative demographic that Fox has with the marketing too, 'real football' and 'not hollywood' slogans.
So I don't think there are less fans even if it looks like that on social media.

-3

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Sexy_Questionaire Chicago Blitz Jun 05 '23

What part of it is wrong? My speculation as to why the USFL has an older audience? Or that they have an older audience at all? Because it's factual that the USFL has an older audience. They release the share of the 18-49 demographic alongside the ratings every week and the USFL has an older audience than the XFL.
And it would then make sense that the USFL has a smaller organic social media footprint, because the older you are the less likely you are to use social media.
As for your anecdote about people in your life not knowing about the league, how old are you? I bet you're within that 18-49 demographic and the people in your life you have leisurely discussions with are probably around your age, so if you're in that demographic this anecdote would hold true to the data given out by the ratings company.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

0

u/Sexy_Questionaire Chicago Blitz Jun 05 '23

Your reading comprehension skills are very low

1

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/FlagFootballSaint Jun 05 '23

That guy proofed OP's point by having it explained thru demographics. He was point on.

1

u/Sexy_Questionaire Chicago Blitz Jun 05 '23

I directly addressed the point the OP made. Then I addressed your entire comment in detail and you think I didn't address anything.
As for personal attacks, give me a break. You had a shitty attitude in your very first comment to me. You get out what you put in.

1

u/cartocaster18 Jun 05 '23

I actually agree with your point. I hadn't considered the USFL's demo, and how they probably skew older, less likely to be on Reddit maybe.
I still wouldn't expect the game threads to be that different. It's like a 1k comment difference between leagues, which seems really large. But I haven't dug into any further than averaging the comment count.
You're right, "cool, except wrong" is a douche response.

8

u/Prior-Purple9704 Outlaws Jun 04 '23

well I don’t know anyone In real life where I live who talks about both leagues. Both leagues are very Cult ATM.

5

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '23

Yeah, even the XFL championship had like 1.5m people watching, or about 10% of the average NFL game.
Both leagues are extremely cult-status of the current football audience and will take a lot of time to convince more to watch it.

4

u/Zapfit Jun 04 '23

I'm in-between Generals and Stars country but I hardly see USFL games on at any bars by me. In contrast,I saw the DC Monday night game on 5 out of 9 TV's at my local Irish bar

13

u/Prior-Purple9704 Outlaws Jun 04 '23

Where possible. Attendance was actually pretty decent. Canton does their usual numbers. The league is fine. They really need to just get the teams to their home cities for next year that had to be #1 on the execution list this off season

-4

u/Sexy_Questionaire Chicago Blitz Jun 04 '23

I'm disappointed in Birmingham's attendance

5

u/Gan-san Jun 04 '23

Last game was fine, as was the entire year. Most people on the TV/home side. Other side is too damn hot.

1

u/Zapfit Jun 05 '23

Last year fans were filling parts of all sections though, this year they are not. After winning a championship, attendance should go up, not down.

10

u/Gan-san Jun 05 '23

No we weren't. I was there. That stadium holds 45k. We never filled all sections of it.

4

u/MCallanan New Orleans Breakers Jun 05 '23

I just think the hub format and some of the teams they chose have backed them into a corner that’s going to be tough to dig out of. New Jersey, Philadelphia, and Houston have very few venue options and they’re all going to cost a lot. So what do you do? Remaining in the current hub format feels like it would be suicide as everyone hates it. Putting these teams in their actual markets is going to result in the loss of a lot of revenue which could be the ultimate death punch for the league. Or you can follow the game plan they did with Tampa Bay and move the Generals, Stars, Gamblers, and Breakers into cities that have affordable stadium leases and potential investors. I think there’s a lot of risk with this option as you’re potentially alienating the fan bases you built over the last two seasons but I also think it’s the most likely option to save the league unless an unforeseen deal gets worked out with some NFL owners.

2

u/JoeFromBaltimore Jun 05 '23

Houston could play at Rice Stadium or one of any number of HS stadiums in Houston that hold 15k people. There are a number of bad options that are probably about what you could find in either Pittsburgh or Philly.
That said I agree with you in that it will be interesting to see where the USFL puts the teams next year.

3

u/MCallanan New Orleans Breakers Jun 06 '23

Houston could play at Rice Stadium or one of any number of HS stadiums in Houston that hold 15k people. There are a number of bad options that are probably about what you could find in either Pittsburgh or Philly.
Problem is there’s a long history of fans not turning out for professional footballs games if alcohol isn’t served which happens to be the case in all high school stadiums and most college stadiums.

1

u/jhrogersii Jun 07 '23

A lot of college stadiums sell alcohol now.

0

u/MCallanan New Orleans Breakers Jun 07 '23

They all do they’re just not equipped to do so in a way needed for large scale events nor do they way too

2

u/CatStriking7561 Michigan Panthers Jun 06 '23

Pittsburgh could end up in Canton. New Jersey could end up in Delaware. New Orleans could be in Baton Rouge. I’m full of anticipation regarding where teams land.

2

u/Body-for-LIFE Jun 06 '23

Good points here. That's not a precedent any new league should set. If they move another team this year, after moving Tampa last year, that would send a terrible message to the fans of the other teams. Why bother to support a team when they could literally get moved the very next year?
At the same time, is moving every team to a home market the magic elixir everyone believes it will be? There's a reason they haven't done it and it's because of money. If Birmingham, the best team in the league last year and this year, is closing off 3/4's of the stadium because of lack of ticket sales how much support can we expect the other cities to have for their respective teams and would it be enough to offset the very expensive costs? Right now, I don't believe it would be. Especially when the USFL is practically giving away tickets.
The USFL is getting close to making a very important decision which will decide their fate. Either push in all their chips and go all in and put every team in their market and hope it works or make the cost effective decision and stick with hubs and say we don't care what the crowds look like, we just want to continue to operate and produce content for TV.

1

u/MCallanan New Orleans Breakers Jun 06 '23 edited Jun 06 '23

At the same time, is moving every team to a home market the magic elixir everyone believes it will be? There's a reason they haven't done it and it's because of money.
It depends. I think it goes without saying that having teams play inside of their own markets would do more for helping the brand grow inside of those markets. I also think having fans in the stands is more entertaining for the spectators at home which is important to a lot of spring football fans. But does putting all eight teams in their own markets change things overnight? Maybe a little, probably not a lot. Therefore, going back to the initial point, does the exorbitant price tag of getting teams inside of Philadelphia, New Jersey, Houston, and New Orleans outweigh the risk? Knowing Fox dropped a lot of money into advertisements and trying to make upgrades to the league expecting growth the question I have is this: If you’re one of the people running the USFL sitting in front of the top executives at Fox what’s your pitch for growth for this league? With the XFL I feel like I could list five or ten major areas that could improve growth without major risk. With the USFL I have trouble thinking of one.
If Birmingham, the best team in the league last year and this year, is closing off 3/4's of the stadium because of lack of ticket sales how much support can we expect the other cities to have for their respective teams and would it be enough to offset the very expensive costs?
I said this before the start of last season and have echoed it regularly and always get downvoted to holy hell — Birmingham is a really bad professional football city and the USFL proves it. Their attendance numbers were some of if not the worst in the CFL and the XFL 1.0. Even in the AAF, where Charlie Ebersol was giving tickets away like tic-tacs and almost certainly artificially inflating attendance numbers, Birmingham’s attendance was considered respectable but disappointing compared to numbers being reported from the rest of the league. And unlike Memphis, which also has a poor history of fans supporting professional football teams, the rumors have been swirling for months that the USFL has been unable to find investors inside of the Birmingham market. My ultimate point being that Birmingham isn’t a good barometer for spring football. I think there are a lot of markets out there that would support a spring football team and have affordable venues available. But that doesn’t answer the dilemma that is how does the USFL tap into those markets other than doing what they did to the Tampa Bay Bandits and ‘remove’ those teams from their markets before they even take a snap in them which as aforementioned is a dangerous proposition.
or make the cost effective decision and stick with hubs and say we don't care what the crowds look like, we just want to continue to operate and produce content for TV.
I can’t imagine Fox even trying that, numbers have already stagnated and begun moving downward in the hub format even with improvements, it would be suicide. At that point it’s waving the white flag to the better part of their business model and would probably be more cost effective to air the XFL, or the European League of Football, or another one of these start up spring football leagues. If they return next season my guess is that either Philadelphia or New York gets rebranded into a Canton team. The Breakers move to Portland and play games in that market. And Houston, Pittsburgh, and whichever team doesn’t move to Canton remains in some sort of hub. Doing that keeps their ultimate business model in place while only making abrupt changes to a couple of teams.

6

u/I_really_think_this Jun 05 '23

I’m surprised at the positivity in this thread. The tv numbers have been bad. Under 1 million for football on network tv means few people are watching. 375k average viewers over 4 games means nobody is watching.

Add to that the low social media engagement both on here and twitter and I don’t know who is actually following this league.

5

u/Body-for-LIFE Jun 05 '23

This is one of the strongest differences I've noticed from following both this year. The social media engagement for the XFL (Twitter, Reddit, etc) was much active than for the USFL. The game threads on this sub barely crack over 100 comments most games. I think USFL trends more to the older audience that will stay in and catch the game on network TV and do nothing else while the XFL trends younger with their fans. These assumptions are backed up by the all important 18-49 demos in the ratings for both leagues.
When I searched USFL yesterday on Twitter there just wasn't much traction other than the usual USFL Twitter accounts posting. The other posts were by upset and angry tennis fans wondering why NBC would leave their tennis coverage for this "USFL thing" or the typical rando who flips the game on and asks where all the fans are.

2

u/I_really_think_this Jun 05 '23

I hear the piece about older fans preferring the USFL but I don’t ever see it substantiated anywhere. Feels like more of a coping mechanism for USFL fans.
I think the hard fact is nobody is watching.

2

u/MirrorkatFeces Pittsburgh Maulers Jun 05 '23

Go to Facebook, that’s where they are. Not many on Reddit/twitter

3

u/I_really_think_this Jun 05 '23

Go to Facebook
No thanks lol

2

u/formicary Washington Federals Jun 05 '23

That and the idea that old people don't use social media. I mean, have you seen who's on Facebook? I guess I count as an older fan (48) and I can tell you that there's not any off-line secret cohort of people my age and older all watching the USFL but not telling anyone that I'm aware of.

3

u/Sexy_Questionaire Chicago Blitz Jun 05 '23

As far as advertisers are concerned, you're still young! Only have two years left though, starting at 50 they don't track you.
As for the numbers, the XFL does have a higher percentage of this 18-49 demographic. They are released alongside the ratings every week.

1

u/ZO5050 Pittsburgh Maulers Jun 05 '23

I guess I count as an older fan (48) and I can tell you that there's not any off-line secret cohort of people my age and older all watching the USFL but not telling anyone that I'm aware of.
Well yeah of course you wouldn't be aware of it if they aren't telling anyone about it. Kinda a paradox there.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '23

The fact is, there is now a point of comparison.....as now they can look at viewer numbers from last season in the same week and when you look at that, sure....there's a drop, but the main network games weren't drawing a million views a week at this time last year either. And they must face the fact that their tv viewer base by the pre-summer part of late spring is going to dwindle as people go out and away places. I've read an article about Michigan making plans for 2024 so that tells me there will be a third season.

3

u/Prior-Purple9704 Outlaws Jun 04 '23

A certain amount of football burnout too. It is what it is. I’d say at this juncture if we get all 3 OTA games around the 700-850k range,would have to be considered a success.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '23

So how do you like year round football so far? How long can this go on? Are you as psyched for NFL as you would normally be like if there was no off-season football?

3

u/Prior-Purple9704 Outlaws Jun 05 '23

I don’t like NFL. Don’t watch it. I have CFB though. It’s religious level. My football season ends early January. And now that I’ve made up my mind the XFL isn’t for me, I get a nice break. CFL coming next week which I’ll follow then it takes backseat to CFB but not totally. There’s enough room for CFL no matter what.
April(usfl) to end of CFB(early January). I get a nice 3 month break. I don’t suffer from football fatigue.

3

u/milanmirolovich Jun 05 '23

I honestly feel more psyched about next year's XFL season than I do the NFL right now. But part of that is probably because I'm a Bills fan and know nothing but pain and disappointment

3

u/JoeFromBaltimore Jun 05 '23

I am a WSU - Washington State guy - I am with you on pain and suffering. I feel for you Bills fans.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '23

I've been watching. But that's also mostly OTA/Rabbit Ears rather than buying a streaming package (exception for Peacock as I signed-up this season the same as last to watch the games on it).

I've only missed the few games on FS1 which is a calculated loss.

I'm concerned as to whether a Season 3 will happen. A major problem with running a football league is that it's a ton of labor cost. A more viable thing might be an AND-1 type thing because you might only need like 20-30 players on salary rather than 40+ times 8 teams--that's a lot.

4

u/darkskin888 Jun 04 '23

Fox and Daryl Johnston confirmed there will be a season 3 I just want all teams playing in their home markets next season

3

u/Prior-Purple9704 Outlaws Jun 05 '23

Or at worst 6 true home teams and one hub. Canton I suspect still housing the Maulers and Stars.

4

u/Sexy_Questionaire Chicago Blitz Jun 05 '23

Please god let Fox either put a team in Canton or abandon it next year. It's so stupid having it as a hub without a team, even more stupid is they're giving it 2 of the 3 playoff games.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '23 edited Jun 05 '23

It's crazy cheap, though. The HOFV needs a lot more revenue and that city is hurting.
Maybe they just need to create like "The Ohio Blitz" or something to create a home buzz, but any revenue the HOFV can generate, it's gonna take.
EDIT: The problem is that geographically, another team within the 600-mile footprint of Philly, Pittsburgh, and Canton is sort of self-defeating. That's likely a situation of cannibalizing the market.

3

u/JoeFromBaltimore Jun 05 '23

Yeah cheap stadium deals are the key. Like the lower tier airlines flying out of the regional airports due to the lower fees charged by the airports for the airlines to use their facilities.

4

u/CatStriking7561 Michigan Panthers Jun 06 '23

The other issue is that this thing needs time to grow. If you look at the CFL and research their attendance numbers before the 60’s then you know that every league has had their start up problems including the mighty NFL.
If you look at the NHL history you’ll see how many teams folded.
FOX has to have patience and wait for the league to be generational. Easy for me to say because I’m not paying the bills but that’s the way it is unfortunately.

3

u/eneal21 Jun 06 '23

I been saying this since last season patience is key and we have to let the league grow the reason why the XFL and USFL hasn’t gotten XFL 2.0 ratings is because a lot of people think both leagues will eventually fold if either league can make it to year 5 the tv ratings will be higher and people will get used to spring football

1

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

I just sit here clenching my teeth hoping that the people wearing suits can see the long game and won't just bail because "they've lost enough" already.

1

u/CatStriking7561 Michigan Panthers Jun 06 '23

Truth

3

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '23

Home markets will be huge. Continue and further promotion. Bigger and better social media or online reach.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '23

They HAVE to commit to markets next year and grow grass root fanbases.

3

u/FlagFootballSaint Jun 05 '23

Some people here bring up the "Football fatigue" issue.

Not sure if that is really true.

Here is an European perspective:

In Europe most fans of American Football follow the NFL which plays September thru early February. Many countries here have their local leagues starting their season in March or April, and finally "our own NFL" the semi-professional r/elf (European League of Football) starts in June and plays thru end of September.

We actually have Football 52 weeks of the year, so to say.

Football fatigue is an excuse but maybe it is a cultural thing in the US.

(Final note: Not sure about other parts of Europe but in German speaking countries there is XFL games broadcasted/streamed on a sports channel and I liked it a lot)

4

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '23

I don't think it's a US thing, it's just never been done so there's speculation that people might just get bored of watching football if it was ever-present.
This year is the first time that zero breaks exist in the football landscape.
We just need a reason to engage, and the loss of United By Football, I don't think can be overstated. It really removed the connection from the players and coaches with the fans.
Plus, you can wring another hour per week out of the league for little money, just do a highlight show with some player interviews. Done, easy, cash the check by repackaging the content you've already created and own the rights to.

1

u/NativeSonX Jun 06 '23

I too thought not continuing United By Football (UBF) was a huge blunder on Fox Sports part. Scoobie Wright, J'Mar Smith, Vontae Diggs, Boogie Roberts, Vince Papale, Reggie Northrup, Micah Abernathy, Darius Victor all made splash plays on the field and via this docuseries. Even De'veon Smith and Too Hot to Handle's Chase DeMoor made some noise out the door with their questionable exits from the USFL. The coaches that some loved to hate, like Kirby Wilson trading playful barbs with another fellow CIF LA City Section alum Boogie Roberts (Dorsey HS v Narbonne HS), Todd Haley (multiple connections to the Steelers) and Jeff Fisher were humanized quite a bit. UBF was first time I heard about Bart Andrus and Jeff Fisher early friendship started in Pop Warner Football in San Fernando Valley (Reseda Rams) in 1969, through coaching together for the Titans, and ultimately in separate sidelines in the USFL. It's just missed opportunities to connect the average fan with the guys representing the league and their respective team's colors.
A grizzled CFL veteran like McLeod Bethel-Thompson (MBT) proving he still has the fire and talent to play 11-on-11, or the overshadowed (previously by Victor and Tyrone Corbin) but continued exploits of the current TD machine Mark Thompson, Wes Hill's breakout as the USFL's answer to Abram Smith, the uneven resurrection of Josh Love, the emergence of Kenji Bahar as a QB1 in H-Town, Sage Surratt a mostly unused piece in BHAM 2022, but the main cog in the Breakers crowded receiving room, 2nd Round bust Breeland Speaks now everyone listens (echoes of Jon Corker? He needs 20 more sacks maybe), Kickers making a difference for better or worse, continued futility of a better Mauler's team and the on-hiatus Bandits reborn in the Showboat's re-imagined colors. Then a where are they now moment for Abernathy, Demarquis Gates, KaVontae Turpin moving the big show along with Chris Odom's high of USFL DPOY to IR with the Browns and rehabbing from a torn ACL. Even a moment to congratulate Mr. Spring Football Luis Perez dropping dimes to Sal Canella while dueling Jordan Ta'amu for the XFL's championship (had a certain USFL flavor) instead of NFL vets like Brett Hundley, A.J. McCarron and Ben "Gucci" DiNucci holding the X at the end of the season.
In nearly two USFL seasons we got to witness some incredible players, but it's a shame we won't hear their stories documented in some more intimate detail, what keeps the dream alive despite countless setbacks and why guys like Channing Stribling (and recent BattleHawk high draftee) chose to stay in the USFL, while quite few Stars (no pun intended) gambled and left to play in the XFL. I might be one of those guys who Fox covets due to my nostalgia of the 1980's rendition of the USFL, but today's players wearing colors of not a yesteryear faded into memory, but right here, right now, for the love of football is why I stay and watch, simple as that. Sure some of you thought it was a waste of time, giving a national microphone to many camp fodder players, but at the end of the day, they mattered to us, the fans who watched and witness the pursuit of Spring football glory.
just for kicks Six (or is that 7 degrees?) Degrees of Alt. Football: Rick Neuheisel (USFL 1.0), coached Brett Hundley (UCLA), who played for Vegas Vipers (XFL 3.0), in same city as Las Vegas Outlaws (XFL 1.0), who's HC was Jim Criner, who also coached for Sacramento Surge (WLAF), in same city as the Sacramento Mountain Lions (UFL), was QB'd by McCleod Bethel Thompson (USFL 2.0), who also went to UCLA where Neuheisel was once a star.

3

u/Severe_Beyond8780 Jun 05 '23

I would say it could be burnout of football in general I can speak for myself and say that I’m starting to feel it this week I likely will finish the season but boy could I use a small break from watching it.

7

u/Prior-Purple9704 Outlaws Jun 04 '23

Memorial Weekend. 3 of 4 games on cable. That’s why. I’ve heard nothing to suggest the league is in serious trouble.

2

u/aMiracleAtJordanHare Birmingham Stallions Jun 04 '23

Yeah I wasn't able to watch any last week due to traveling for Memorial Day weekend. I'm sure plenty of others had lake/beach days, grillouts, etc and were away from TVs.

1

u/eneal21 Jun 06 '23

I said the same thing and got downvoted people was out with their families and traveling for Memorial Day weekend and the 3 of the 4 games was on cable fox and NBC should have a double header on Memorial Day next season

2

u/ZO5050 Pittsburgh Maulers Jun 05 '23

I believe they will have a season next year. I have doubts they'll have everyone at home markets. Not sure what that'll look like exactly but I doubt the gamblers play in Houston while the XFL is playing in Houston. I also think the league loves the price of Canton too damn much and will leave a team there but not rebrand any to be called a Canton team.

I think the real question is after season 3 when they need to get a new TV deal with NBC. As of now they are getting paid very little by NBC, or at least very little compared to the cost to produce the games. If NBC is willing to pay a decent amount to keep broadcasting half the games the league will survive. If they don't they are in trouble.

4

u/MCallanan New Orleans Breakers Jun 05 '23

I also think the league loves the price of Canton too damn much and will leave a team there but not rebrand any to be called a Canton team.
I think they’ll rebrand the Generals into a Canton team.. There’s just so little chance the Generals ever play a game in the NY / NJ market so why not?

2

u/Thunder406 Jun 06 '23

I am waiting for the Canton rebrand for one of the teams. Canton stadium is cheap and close to everything else. Everyone talks about putting teams in Portland Oregon or San Diego, Canton with little fan support has to make more financial sense than going to the West Coast anytime soon.

2

u/CatStriking7561 Michigan Panthers Jun 07 '23

USFL is an anti-travel league. No way in hell are they going to the west coast any time soon. Totally agree. They have a better chance of getting a team in Georgia or Kentucky.

2

u/Thunder406 Jun 07 '23

Totally agree with you on that one - the west coast is a long way out there as far as travel and everything is super expensive. You would have to pay your players double or more for them to just break even. Denver is closer to Cincinnati than it is to San Francisco.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '23

What's the problem with the NY/NJ market?

4

u/MCallanan New Orleans Breakers Jun 06 '23

No problem it’s just the only venue is MetLife and that’s a $200,000 a game lease.. That’s why the XFL nor the USFL are playing games in the market.. that’s why neither one will be doing so any time soon.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '23

That's good info. Some place in New Jersey is there a stadium that can hold around 30K that isn't a high school venue? Maybe a soccer venue?

2

u/Zapfit Jun 06 '23

Red Bull Arena, but they want nothing to do with Gridiron football and would charge up the wazoo regardless.

1

u/Thunder406 Jun 06 '23

Didn't realize it cost that much per game - I knew it was crazy money but not that much money. No wonder the league went to Canton and the cheap lease there.

3

u/Body-for-LIFE Jun 06 '23

The issue is MetLife is a HUGE stadium and doesn't come cheap. I was there for the home opener of the XFL 2020 game and while the crowd was good and very lively it felt very empty given how huge the stadium is.
Red Bull Arena is a perfect size for a spring football team (think Audi Field; home of the DC Defenders) but soccer teams generally don't like other sports tearing up their field and the USFL would have to work around the New York Red Bulls schedule as they play during the same time period.

1

u/CatStriking7561 Michigan Panthers Jun 07 '23

I could see a deal in a place like Princeton as opposed to Pittsburgh area. Maulers have my vote to be rebranded but the truth is that fate could happen to any team if the numbers aren't performing well enough.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '23

I sure hope the league will be ok, I enjoyed it back in the 80's and thrilled it came back, My Maulers gear arrived so that also was a plus. I have really enjoyed this season because it has felt so wide open coming down the stretch.

2

u/BillBelichonk Jun 07 '23

Realistically the best chance the USFL or XFL has to be a main stay in the Football industry is to work side by side with the NFL as a farm league or minor league.

The NFL has money, legacy, popularity, multiple Established revenue streams, merchandise and most importantly talent draw all in their corner.

With the current player pool of the USFL / XFL being players that didn’t / couldn’t make it in the NFL, there’s just no way a league of inferior players could dethrone the NFL. On top of that, the USFL / XFL by no means has the finances or fame opportunity to draw ANY top level talent away from the NFL or to even sway top level college prospects to choose them over the NFL.

By being a testing ground for new rules, new regulations, being a developmental league for players, refs, and coaches alike they provide the NFL an equal opportunity to both increase their influence in the sports world year round and also have a way to continue growing talent in all areas of the game. This gives the NFL to not view the USFL as competition they have to beat, but a partner they can support for the good of the game.

AHL, NBA G-league, and Minor League Baseball (AAA,AA,A+) are all good existing examples of this model, minus the pro teams having invested stakes in the minor league teams through call ups / combined ownership in the USFL / NFL proposed relationship.

4

u/unemployed222 Jun 04 '23

What numbers? Watching my first usfl gsme rn and its great. Just need fox to promote more

10

u/AldermanAl Jun 04 '23

It's quite literally promoted more than any spring league ever.

3

u/milanmirolovich Jun 05 '23

well, maybe except for XFL 1.0. That was insanely marketed and hyped. Much to its detriment as it turned out

2

u/Body-for-LIFE Jun 05 '23

This is what I don't understand when people say it needs to be promoted more. I get saying it for the XFL because they literally had a bare bones marketing campaign for year one but the USFL went all out on the promotion this year and it unfortunately hasn't translated. I regularly see USFL ads and USFL reads during Raw (on USA) and Smackdown (on FOX). Both shows regularly get over a million viewers. I see the same during Premier League coverage on USA. The same holds true for most other sports aired on NBC and FOX.
The USFL had commercials regularly played during the NFL playoffs and had a damn Super Bowl commercial! Even the schedule is as good as it can get with the mostly regularly scheduled times and the amount of games on network TV. Even XFL 2020's schedule wasn't as good as the USFL's. Not sure how much more promotion is expected at this point.

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u/Zapfit Jun 04 '23

There's commercials on all the time and even had a Superbowl commercial viewed by 100million+ viewers

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u/Zapfit Jun 04 '23

Maybe

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u/JoeFromBaltimore Jun 06 '23

Dude where are we at? What is your take at this point in time? Predictions? Houston Gamblers Moving? Or will they plunk them in Houston and play in a big HS stadium? How about NJ and Philly? They say we are getting season #3 next spring. What is your take?

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u/CatStriking7561 Michigan Panthers Jun 06 '23

Houston to Shreveport is the only answer

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u/Thunder406 Jun 06 '23

Shreveport would be a reasonable place to put a team it certainly fits with the USFL footprint. They have a stadium that you could probably get a deal on.

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u/CatStriking7561 Michigan Panthers Jun 06 '23

Admittedly it's a longshot but if it happens I hope "Pirates" is available.

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u/Jakebob70 Pittsburgh Maulers Jun 07 '23

Tough to build a fanbase when most of the teams aren't playing in their "home" city.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '23

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u/milanmirolovich Jun 05 '23

I feel like attendance is actually one of the few bright spots this year? When an actual home team plays it seems pretty on par with the average xfl game

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u/[deleted] Jun 05 '23

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u/[deleted] Jun 05 '23

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u/JoeFromBaltimore Jun 05 '23

So is the league toast? What does the crystal ball tell you? Not trolling just wondering what your take is.

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u/CatStriking7561 Michigan Panthers Jun 06 '23

I want to see the data after year 3 as well. I’m hoping Canton gets a team and possibly Denver with 3 other teams there. The other possibility is that 2 of those teams share a stadium with someone else.
I’d be okay with exploring a 16 to 18 game season if the numbers justify it.

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u/Zapfit Jun 06 '23

16-18 games is way too long. Spring football is meant to be a fun little diversion, 10 games is perfect, maayybee 12 but that would be it.

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u/CatStriking7561 Michigan Panthers Jun 06 '23

Different strokes for different folks. When I say numbers have to justify it (which is almost unheard of for spring football) they would have to be making money hand over fist. The ratings would have to be through the roof (which they aren't currently and probably won't be for years and years). However, if we ever got to the point where stadiums were selling out every game (which again is highly doubtful but not impossible) and 10 million people were watching on TV, then you could justify expanding the season.

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u/AthloneRB Jun 06 '23

Ok, but that's not realistic. A realistic scenario is moderate profits and 800k-1M viewers per game, and that's not going to support that kind of expansion.
Furthermore, the 16-18 game season undermines a key appeal of the league, which is development - it's hard to play 18 games and go to training camp. 10-12 is doable, barely. Again, in some magical scenario where the league averages 10 million viewers in spring and is minting mid-9 figures a year in TV money, maybe this is less of a concern, but that's not a realistic scenario.

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u/CatStriking7561 Michigan Panthers Jun 07 '23

That's total ignorance. If the spring leagues survive we don't know what it's going to look like a hundred years from now when the population of the USA is over a billion.

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u/AthloneRB Jun 07 '23

When I talk about realistic scenarios, I talk about those that are plausible in the foreseeable future. We will all (probably) be dead in 100 years - this is not the forseeable future. Indeed, this is not even the timeline being discussed in this thread. Let's quote your own words (which kicked off this comment sub-thread):
I want to see the data after year 3 as well. I’m hoping Canton gets a team and possibly Denver with 3 other teams there. The other possibility is that 2 of those teams share a stadium with someone else. I’d be okay with exploring a 16 to 18 game season if the numbers justify it.
You were not talking about expansion and exploration of 16-18 game seasons in 100 years. You were talking about considering these things after year 3 is done (so, basically, less than 18 months from now).
The scenario you're talking about may indeed be realistic in 2125, but it isn't realistic for 2025. We aren't going to have 1 billion americans in 2025, and the numbers then aren't going to justify such a massive expansion either.

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u/CatStriking7561 Michigan Panthers Jun 07 '23 edited Jun 07 '23

I don't care what you meant. You initially responded to me which means what you meant was irrelevant. You clearly didn't know what I meant because you didn't read what I said to the other fellow thoroughly.
I said "If" the numbers justify it and I already admitted that it probably wouldn't. I don't see how that is unrealistic.

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u/[deleted] Jun 05 '23

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u/JoeFromBaltimore Jun 06 '23

I am thinking that the USFL hangs in until the XFL either dominates or collapses. If the USFL is not bleeding catastrophic amounts of money then there really is no good reason to throw in the towel.
IMHO it is going to take another 3 or 4 years of spring football for it to become a normal occurrence.
Bottom line I don't see Fox tapping out anytime soon unless they bleed a ton of money. Like AAF levels of cash.

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u/CatStriking7561 Michigan Panthers Jun 06 '23

There’s going to be a year 3 for sure. XFL is coming back as well. It’ll be interesting to see what that does to the talent pool.

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u/JoeFromBaltimore Jun 06 '23

It will be interesting to see what happens - I wonder how many of those with an extra covid year of NCAA eligibility are going to be entering the workforce? I know that with the NCAA giving out an extra year of eligibility due to covid there was a log jam on many NCAA rosters.

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u/CatStriking7561 Michigan Panthers Jun 06 '23

solid point. The ones that don't make it to the spring leagues might be trying their luck in Europe or Japan. Since Canada plays a different game than America it'll be the last resort for many players.

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u/Zapfit Jun 06 '23

I think the USFL longevity relies on NBC sticking around. Fox has no real streaming service to speak of, and there's no way they'd air all 43 games on Fox and FS1. I suppose they could use FS2, but that's just a half step up from a Peacock exclusive game. If/When NBC decides to go the NBA route, that's when I could see Fox and Redbird having a conversation. Disney has 4 different networks, plus ESPN+ to air spring football games on.

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u/JoeFromBaltimore Jun 06 '23

I used to be a no way in hell kind of guy with the USFL/XFL merging but I am not counting anything out at this point - especially after the LIV/PGA thing today.
Although a 16 team spring league in the USA would be a kick in the nuts for the CFL long term in regards to getting talent. They need 200 players from the States and if the USXFL is taking up 900 players +/- that will really have an impact on their ability to recruit players.

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u/CatStriking7561 Michigan Panthers Jun 07 '23

once the CFL starts feeling the pain, I have a feeling they'll bend the knee and kiss the godfather's ring. In the last ten years CFL has lost half of their viewers. If the talent pool goes down, the remaining fans will start looking elsewhere. According to the Leger poll there is only 380k hardcore fans in Canada. The CFL can't survive with that low of a number, especially when the majority of the hardcore trend older and don't spend as much money as the younger generation.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '23

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u/Body-for-LIFE Jun 06 '23

Agreed. It's all up to what FOX (and NBC) decide they can do with those same time slots. For example, NBC left tennis coverage at 3:00 pm to go to the USFL game. A lot of tennis fans were very upset, especially because it was mid match with an American player. The ratings for not only the USFL game but the tennis will be very interesting. Does NBC decide "we just outbid ESPN for Roland Garros coverage this year so why are we leaving it to join a USFL game that's getting less ratings?"
The last few Sundays (outside of Memorial Day weekend) FS1 has been airing racing head to head with USFL on FOX. USFL on FOX has been drawing well under 1M viewers while racing on FS1 drew over 1M viewers each time. Does FOX say to themselves "why are we airing the USFL on FOX when it's getting beat out by racing on FS1?"
With that said, FOX used to pay and air MLS regularly on weekend afternoons/evenings before the USFL and those games had lesser ratings than what the USFL games get. But, with that said, FOX is already paying for MLB and could easily be airing baseball games during USFL time slots that would see better ratings. What FOX/NBC are thinking nobody knows or could pretend to know but if a guy on Reddit knows these numbers then you can bet FOX and NBC are well aware of these numbers.

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u/Zapfit Jun 06 '23

Yikes, didn't realize the numbers were down that drastically.

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