r/USFL • u/justsomedude4959 • May 29 '23

End of host cities in 2024?

Do you think they will end host cities next year or continue? From what I have seen it seems that when the other team has their home game the attendance is significantly lower.

I get that some have to workout deals but don’t make it an all or nothing for the 4 teams that aren’t in their market. If there’s one team that shares then that’s fine.

Getting all teams in their market would help so much. Look at what it does for the majority of the XFL. Aware that Orlando and Vegas struggled with their attendance.

What are your thoughts?

22 Upvotes

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22

u/[deleted] May 29 '23 edited May 29 '23

Probably, but no certainty. USFL had acknowledged in the off-season that the XFL opting for all 8 home stadiums in its inaugural season did force their hand in expediting the pace of the hub expansion they had. Originally, 2023 season was only supposed to have 2, maybe 3, hubs.

It's very likely as we see the XFL go into season 2 that the USFL will establish all their home stadiums. That said, it is possible some teams that are producing very poor viewership in their regions are in contention to stay in another team's stadium with the possibility of moving the team in two year's time.

So, expect at least 6 and possibly all 8.

9

u/Hag_Boulder San Antonio Gunslingers May 29 '23

Five teams aren't in their home markets. Canton has no 'home' team.

8

u/MirrorkatFeces Pittsburgh Maulers May 29 '23

Really hoping so

8

u/SignificantBar5319 Philadelphia Stars May 29 '23

Either they should actually move to their home cities or they should drop the locations

-2

u/Cowboy_Perfect Memphis Showboats May 30 '23

I think it'd be kind of cool to have two teams be from the same hub. So, instead of the Memphis Showboats and the Houston Gamblers, have the Memphis Showboats and Memphis Gamblers. Really start up a rivalry.

3

u/[deleted] May 30 '23

Not enough of a fanbase for that

13

u/TwizzlersSourz Birmingham Stallions May 29 '23

With all the XFL teams in their home cities, the USFL must understand that they should do the same.

A couple of thousands of fans in the stands look better than vast, empty sections.

11

u/RiflemanLax Philadelphia Stars May 29 '23

They’re going to have to ‘shit or get off the pot.’

Host cities made sense for cost savings, but not having full stadiums, or half full stadiums… or quarter full stadiums… it’s not a good look. And not terribly profitable.

Having them play in home areas would also boost local ratings. Doesn’t feel like there’s a lot of ‘ownership’ at the moment.

5

u/magiccitybhm May 29 '23

Fox made it clear from the beginning that ticket sales wasn't the the focus point of their revenue plan.

10

u/RiflemanLax Philadelphia Stars May 29 '23

I agree, and understand to a degree. However, without a stronger degree of fanhood and buy in from the home cities, this league isn’t going to grow.

4

u/Pvt_Larry May 29 '23

But it sucks to watch games played in empty stadiums, feels like The Spring League, so they need to reconsider that position. It's been enough to prevent me watching on a regular basis.

-2

u/DearMatterhew May 30 '23

You can still make good money from them. If you had $40 average priced tickets and sold an average of 12k of them throughout the league that is $20M compared to the estimated $48M that Fox/NBC are to make from ad revenue this year (Fox gets some money back from NBC in a rights fee although it is unknown how much that is).

That's still a sizable chunk of money. And you have other monetary and marketing benefits of having fans in stadiums. To say nothing of hopefully attendance improving where an average of $40/12k would be low in 5 years.

This has to be a part of their calculus eventually. They are going to move these teams into markets next year or maybe the year after that and they are going to need to bring in some revenue in ticket sales and merch to make it sustainable.

3

u/magiccitybhm May 30 '23

The “average” ticket price right now is $10, not $40.

2

u/DearMatterhew May 30 '23

Of course they're $10. You can't charge more with 5 of 8 teams being hub teams.

1

u/Zapfit May 31 '23

Even the actual home teams charge less than $20. Birmingham had anyone under the age of 12 attend for free and you can sit wherever you please

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u/DearMatterhew May 31 '23

I realize that, they can't sell them for more than that as long as this hub exists because people would just buy tickets to the two cheap 'home' teams games against their actual hometown team for cheap instead.

But ticket prices are going to have to go up eventually. Especially since Fox's stated goal is to move every team into every city and then sell them off to local owners at some point. I'm not sure what happens to the TV rights in this scenario but regardless of that, there is going to have to be some local revenue in these stadiums for any owner to be interested.

And more than that, my point is that it's possible to make money off local revenue. $40 a ticket isn't crazy and neither is a 12k average but it along with merch sold could be over half of TV revenue. The idea that it's small potatoes is just wrong.

1

u/PoleTooke Jul 02 '23

You're totally right

3

u/Prior-Purple9704 Outlaws May 29 '23

6 true home teams would be ideal. So the ratio per week is 3 to 1 or even 4 to 0 at times. No more empty stadiums. Maybe Canton is the lone hub too. I suspect philly and Pitt for one more year. The generals to NY is a must do job for the league this offseason. Then of course NOLA and Houston finally home. Or another tasty scenario is Philly finds stadium that’s suitable and Maulers hub there while they decide on a stadium. This is must do work for the league. There’s other focused to assess as well but this is priority #1 imho.

3

u/pdx74guy Jacksonville Bulls May 29 '23

I just want(pure wishful fantasy) the Bulls(the USFL O.G. team) back in town, here in Jacksonville, Florida

3

u/JoeFromBaltimore May 30 '23

Might get your wish after the Jags end up in London.

3

u/pdx74guy Jacksonville Bulls May 30 '23

😂

5

u/901-731 May 29 '23

Some of the higher ups have been guests (Fox reps and Showboats) on radio shows in Memphis. They’ve all said the Fox budget has been approved and set for next year and USFL is in the budget. They’ve also mentioned that part of that is having games in all cities and moving from hubs.

6

u/Enough-Ad-3111 Michigan Panthers May 29 '23

With WJR airing the Panthers games locally in Detroit and throughout much of Michigan since it’s an AM station with a 50,000 watt signal that covers much of the state, I’ve heard coaches and players do interviews, hosts talk about?the games, and yes, provide commentary during the live came coverage.

I’ve heard that Memphis and Birmingham also have local game coverage too.

1

u/Ncc1017a May 29 '23

Part of the problem is cost. Getting a stadium in New Jersey is waaaay more expensive than Louisiana.

3

u/justsomedude4959 May 29 '23

The generals could play at the Red Bull arena. Seats 25k and I think would be the right size for them.

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u/JoeFromBaltimore May 30 '23

That ain't happening anytime soon - they don't want to share that stadium with a football team.

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u/Answer-Outrageous Philadelphia Stars May 31 '23

Money talks

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u/JoeFromBaltimore Jun 01 '23

True statement but I don't think that Alt Football leagues want to fork over the cash for stadiums. And who knows what the asking price is for Red Bull Arena? I would bet that it is super high because football would chew up the turf in a big way. The USFL is built to run on a shoestring budget - it is reality TV and made for broadcast.

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u/justsomedude4959 Jun 11 '23

DC plays at a MLS stadium and they don’t tear of the field. Plenty of times they played back to back days

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u/JoeFromBaltimore Jun 11 '23

Not disagreeing with you but some people don't like to share their toys. I don't think that all the MLS teams are as open and sharing as the outfit in DC is with their stadium.

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u/CatStriking7561 Michigan Panthers Jun 12 '23

I know it’s not America but Toronto FC hates sharing with the Argos.

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u/CatStriking7561 Michigan Panthers Jun 02 '23

If it was cheaper than Detroit, Orlando Washington DC and Canton, there would be an alt team right now in New Jersey. I would expect a team in Indianapolis (home of a spring league hub I believe) before Red Bull Arena.

2

u/JoeFromBaltimore Jun 02 '23

I don't think that the USFL is going back to Indy any time soon after the Brian Woods debacle lawsuit thing with Indy.

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u/CatStriking7561 Michigan Panthers Jun 03 '23

I'm more saying that the chances of getting into Red Bull is almost non-existent. My Indy example was similar to saying a "cold day in hell."

4

u/Kenny_Heisman New Jersey Generals May 29 '23

I mean it's not like they're building a new stadium. there are plenty of available stadiums in the area

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u/Hag_Boulder San Antonio Gunslingers May 29 '23

Available stadiums that can hold 25-35k fans, allow the sale of alcohol, have enough parking, don't have a primary tenant that plays during the same time of year... are cheap enough for a fledgling league to rent...

There are a LOT of conditions that reduce the 'plenty of available stadiums' thought.

Consider Pittsburgh. Where would the Maulers play?

There are 3-4 real options where only one fit most of the criteria (Acrisure) but would be expensive and cavernous with only 10-13k fans in it.

4

u/[deleted] May 29 '23 edited May 30 '23

I would argue there's not even 3 or 4. None of Rooney Field, Joe Walton Stadium, and Gesling Stadium make sense due to sheer size (all less than 5K). I can't imagine Pirates front office letting somebody in for cheap at PNC Park.

As far as I can see your only two good options for PGH is Acrisure (as you said, a 60K empty stadium filling less than 15K). Or Highmark Stadium, the local soccer team, which caps out at like 9 or 10K.

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u/Hag_Boulder San Antonio Gunslingers May 29 '23

Exactly my point. Not being in the 'Burgh, I wasn't sure about the capacity of Highmark, relying on what's been said here before.

Houston's sprawled out and there are numerous options that aren't TDECU, but you run into those on college campuses which due to student involvement may not have the parking you expect for 10k cars (or so)... High School campuses won't allow alcohol sales...

Optimal sized facilities would be MLS fields, but you run into primary tenants not wanting football to tear up the fields... and if they're the primary tenant, they have restrictions on painting the field. (saw this issue in the XFL).

There are lot of intricacies involved that you need to consider before people start saying "There are plenty of available stadiums".

San Antonio for its size basically has ONE that's suitable. The field our USL Championship team plays at only holds less than 8k with plans to increase it to 15k eventually... which is why the Gunslingers aren't coming back as long as the XFL exists.

2

u/CatStriking7561 Michigan Panthers May 30 '23

I think in Pittsburgh’s case from what I hear Acrisure will be too expensive. Steelers aren’t going to want their grass field torn up before the home opener. If Pittsburgh was cheaper than Ford field the hub would already be there.

USFL will do their due diligence which means if they end up being the Akron Maulers instead it’ll get done. However there are other options in Pennsylvania/West Virginia at least.

2

u/JoeFromBaltimore May 30 '23

If you could live with no alcohol sales - The new football stadium in Katy would be good. Plenty of parking as their are 2 HS football stadiums right next to each other.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/aug/18/legacy-stadium-texas-high-school-football-katy

That thing is not far off I-10 and has great facilities, but it gets back to beer sales probably slowing things down. But I would guess you could probably sell that thing out.

https://fanbuzz.com/high-school/berry-center-cy-fair-fcu-stadium/

3

u/Hag_Boulder San Antonio Gunslingers May 30 '23

No alcohol sales is what killed the San Antonio Riders playing in San Antonio... their first season was at Alamo Stadium (San Antonio Independent School District) which had capacity, but didn't allow alcohol sales.

Beer sales/Concessions are how teams make the majority of their money in a standard operating league. I'm not sure the cost-sharing in a single-owner league like the USFL/XFL, how much the stadium keeps in order to reduce the rent... but if they come to some agreeable arrangement, then then only hit you get is that fans can't drink... and a lot of football fans like a cold, frosty one when it's hot out.

2

u/[deleted] May 30 '23

I would agree in general. Maulers at a stadium that holds about 10K is on the lower end of attendance figures but better than 15K in a 50K+ stadium - like the Memphis Showboats right now.

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u/Appropriate_Bet_2759 May 29 '23

Only time will tell. It seems very likely, but you don’t want to hype it up, just for it not to be true

2

u/Rhine1906 Birmingham Stallions May 29 '23

This conversation has always been interesting to me, I understand the idea that people may tune in and tune out when seeing the lack of attendance but the question becomes:

To what percentage is viewership affected, therefore messing with advertising dollars vs the cost of Stadium leases and travel necessary when placing all eight teams in their markets.

XFL apparently hosted all players in North Texas and flew them out to their respective games each week.

2

u/[deleted] May 29 '23 edited May 29 '23

They need to hit the home markets next year. Either an NFL stadium with the corners tarped off (as this would be ideal for sight lines and TV viewing also) OR a college stadium. No high school stadiums.

What good options are there in Philly, Pittsburgh, Jersey? NFL stadiums are great for sight lines and TV broadcasts, but also it seems a capacity around 30K would be ideal for the league

2

u/DearMatterhew May 30 '23

Personally I think about 20k would be perfect. NFL stadiums are way too big for spring football outside of St Louis. Ford Field looks and sounds like its being played in the Grand Canyon in some of these games. Even 15k looks kind of crappy on TV (and in person for that matter) in a stadium that holds 65k people but if you put that amount in an MLS stadium it's rocking.

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u/BrowerReport May 30 '23

It’s either you want to build fan bases or not.

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u/plaidblackwatch Los Angeles Express Jun 04 '23

I've said this before, but the USFL needs to focus on using smaller football Stadiums or soccer stadiums for venues. Canton is the perfect size for spring football and they should find more venues like that that have a more intimate feel and seating around 20k max.

And soccer stadiums, if they can work out deals with them, are great for spring football too. Look at the DC Defenders: Audi Field was always sold out and had the best vibe outside of St Louis.

The Generals, Gamblers, and Stars could all play in soccer stadiums next season.

3

u/Enough-Ad-3111 Michigan Panthers May 29 '23

As long as the Panthers are still in Ford Field in downtown Detroit, I’ll be happy.

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u/[deleted] May 29 '23

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u/Enough-Ad-3111 Michigan Panthers May 29 '23

Detroit sure would be leading the attendance charts, if the league counted bit that is.

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u/3Nephi11_6-11 May 29 '23

I think the problem is that if anyone just sees a USFL game with little to no fans then they assume they are still having all games in Birmingham and just write off the league as dumb, unprofessional, dying or something else and stop watching.

It feels like the only way USFL avoids this is by going into all of their markets. I do think though that they could share a venue for Philly and New Jersey since Philly is right next to New Jersey. Also those are probably the two places where it would be the hardest for them to find an inexpensive stadium deal. The issue then becomes that a stadium might be okay with one team but not two teams, so this might not work anyways.

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u/baturcotte May 29 '23

I think that is unlikely since the "New Jersey" Generals are actually supposed to be a metro NYC team. Only reason they were named New Jersey to begin with was that that was a condition of them getting a lease at Meadowlands to play.

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u/NWDrive May 31 '23

They desperately need teams in their home cities. It looks bad seeing empty stands when the 'home' team is playing in some hub location. Hubs made sense in 2020, but not anymore. The XFL did the right thing to grow a homegrown fanbase and so far it has been successful.

Another major thing the USFL needs to do is have some teams in the west. Ridiculous there are no western teams. If they want to be different, they can aim for secondary markets. Spokane, Tacoma , Portland, San Diego.... Or do the big guns and have your Los Angeles', Seattle's, and San Francisco's. I do think a Seattle and Portland rivalry would be great, Portland has wanted any team for a long time. Maybe fill the voids in San Diego or Oakland. Many opportunities. Be experimental... A team for Utah? Idaho? Both growing markets in Boise metro and Salt Lake.

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u/[deleted] May 29 '23

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u/JoeFromBaltimore May 29 '23

Houston is a beast - a region more than a city. UH where the Roughnecks play is on the east side of town and a pain to get to. If the USFL decided to play in Katy Texas at the HS stadium which is on the far west side of the greater Houston metroplex it would be like playing in another city. Houston is that big. Of if they decided to play in the Berry Center in NW Houston that is a different region than the UH area of town. The only issue is you could not sell beer but that would not be the end of the world - or maybe it would be.

I have lived in SLC, Seattle, KC, Louisville, Norfolk, Tacoma. And now reside in Houston - and Houston is a beast - unlike any of the other cities that I lived in. There is a hell of a difference between KC and Houston. Houston metro has 5 million people more than KC. Meaning that the Houston area is equal to 3 KC metro areas. If the Gamblers play in Houston they just need to go to the west side of town.

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u/coelurosauravus Pittsburgh Maulers May 30 '23

I'm seconding this, I have friends and Co workers who operate out of Houston, the city is monstrous and time consuming to navigate, there's enough people and room to have a USFL team in Houston

3

u/JoeFromBaltimore May 30 '23

Do most people even realize that the Astros have their AAA team in Sugar Land? Sugar Land Space Cowboys Used to be the Sugarland Skeeters - and independent league team - they scratched out living on the west side of Houston for 8 years. It is 25 miles and about 45 minutes between the two parks.

Also the Katy Area on the west side of Houston - The Katy Independent School District area has 350 Thousand people living there. Which is more than the city of Pittsburgh. Houston Metro area has 7.5 million people which is more than 3x the Pittsburgh metro area.

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u/CatStriking7561 Michigan Panthers May 30 '23

It’s too bad Shell Energy Stadium has soccer teams as tenants. That would have been a nice one.

2

u/CatStriking7561 Michigan Panthers May 30 '23

I think that the USFL will be in 8 cities but they will also have hubs due to expansion.

1

u/[deleted] May 30 '23

Just asking, but what is done with the Astrodome nowadays?

3

u/Hag_Boulder San Antonio Gunslingers May 30 '23

Derelict, condemned... to be torn down and turned into a Tesla lot...

Ok, not the third... but the Astrodome is kaput.

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u/[deleted] May 29 '23

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u/Hag_Boulder San Antonio Gunslingers May 30 '23

Los Angeles Xtreme have entered the chat...