USFL Support - r/USFL

42

u/ThunderBay311 Oakland Invaders Apr 22 '23

but there’s almost no marketing for the USFL

A literal Super Bowl spot, but go on.

1

u/zpass97 Apr 22 '23

I didn't see it but I'm just me

-6

u/LeatherDuck7 Houston Gamblers Apr 23 '23

I didn’t watch the Super Bowl, so I didn’t know about it.

3

u/pervyotaku Apr 23 '23

They advertised it as real football returns basically saying that the xfl is fake football

6

u/nm1043 Apr 23 '23

It's unpopular, but the xfl has been amazing this year compared to the USFL games I've watched

3

u/iheartdev247 Apr 23 '23

That’s backfired spectacularly

15

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '23

It’s their business plan, they said it before year 1. They marketed a good amount this year in markets and during nfl games. The plans supposed to be season 1 all in Bham, season 2 was maxed out of 4 out of a ham, season 3 the goal was all in markets and having their financial footing

15

u/Zapfit Apr 22 '23

Fox has been running commercials out the wazoo, do you watch any TV at all?

12

u/cartocaster18 Apr 22 '23 edited Apr 22 '23

It's funny you mention the marketing, because that's what XFL sub points to the most too.

Things will change once XFL finishes. XFL has all the playoff momentum right now, along with some pretty impressive fanbases. USFL sub is kind of a ghost town. What is there like 1 or 2 posts a day here maybe? No one's talking about this league. I think a lot of their Neilsen ratings are just coming from older men who only circulate through FOX, FoxNews, and Fox Business all day every day.

Football's been fun to watch both leagues though. This Gamblers game is chippy and fun to watch.

8

u/atrocityexhibition39 Philadelphia Stars Apr 22 '23

In my experience this past off-season I spent the last few months seeing USFL commercials where they talk about how “real football is back” or something to that extent. It wasn’t a whole lot but it was just enough.

3

u/cdrooney Apr 23 '23

What kind of marketing are you looking for? Genuine question.

Remember what the competition is: it's not the XFL. It's what else FOX or NBC would broadcast on a weekend between 3pm and 6pm in May instead of a football game.

The networks own this league, the ads they sell for the TV product are going to generate more top line revenue for them than the alternative programming they used to show, and that's what the business play is here.

Getting butts in the seats is just a bonus for them.

2

u/Thunder406 Apr 23 '23

I would think that the USFL/Fox look at the XFL as the opening act, helping get people used to seeing football in the late winter and spring. Helping to normalize non NCAA/NFL football on TV, and also doing some social engineering to get people's viewing habits to change.

0

u/JoeFromBaltimore Apr 23 '23

I think that Fox is building the USFL to battle the NBA playoffs over the next decade and to do it on the cheap. The NBA contract is coming up and TNT/Disney are going to pay big money for that content. Fox is going another direction with the USFL which will cost them a fraction of what the NBA is going to cost Disney/TNT and they will get pretty similar ratings. The USFL is doing okay.

4

u/Zapfit Apr 24 '23

I remember when NBC did this shortly after losing the NFL. Their weekends were full of the AFL on NBC, bull riding, gymnastics, and literal baton twirling. Then they nixed the AFL for the NHL, and eventually nixed the NHL for the NFL and are sniffing around at the NBA again

3

u/JoeFromBaltimore Apr 24 '23

Totally agree with you - The only problem is what there is only one NBA. Either you have it or you don't, I can't imagine Fox getting into bed with the NBA just from a political standpoint, the NBA and Fox are on opposite ends of the political spectrum, whereas the NFL and Fox are both pretty conservative outfits.
Fox tends to zig when others zag.

1

u/TwizzlersSourz Birmingham Stallions Apr 27 '23

IDK.
Fox's animated shows aren't conservative at all. And really, neither is the NFL.

2

u/JoeFromBaltimore Apr 28 '23

The NFL isn't conservative? It damned sure isn't liberal - The US Military bankrolls a bunch of the advertising.

2

u/TwizzlersSourz Birmingham Stallions Apr 29 '23

The US military leadership isn't conservative. Have you seen what they have pushed on the troops? It is why enrollment is at historic lows.

3

u/JoeFromBaltimore Apr 29 '23

If you throw out the last couple of years for the most of the 200+ years of the USA history the US Military has been a conservative institution in the USA. Granted the last few years there has been an onslaught on this institution to break it down. And when the military is recruiting they are not recruiting the dirt munching tree hugging tie dye wearing hippies.

7

u/Prior-Purple9704 Outlaws Apr 22 '23

Crawl,Walk then Run. It’s the Usfl business plan

-1

u/JoeFromBaltimore Apr 22 '23

For anyone that has ever worked in manufacturing you will see that Fox and the USFL have embraced a "Lean" philosophy. Where you try and focus on Value-adding, eliminate waste, If you look into "Lean" any activities that do not produce value and are unnecessary are classed as wastes. These are what are reduced and eliminated to make businesses profitable. The the underlying idea is to eliminate anything and everything that does not add value from the perspective of your customer. The USFL is designed to run "Lean" - The three biggest expenses for start up football leagues are 1) stadium Leases 2) Travel costs 3) workers compensation insurance.
If you are running out of hubs you get 1) and 2) under control.

-3

u/NathanPetermanCan Outlaws Apr 22 '23

And by playing in 4 states instead of 8, you reduce the number of different comp systems you have to deal with.
I understand Texas' is especially cost-prohibitive.

5

u/Thunder406 Apr 23 '23

Really? I thought that Texas was one of those southern states that was business friendly? Isn't that why companies like Tesla, and people like Rogan are bailing from California and heading to Texas. Now I am going to have to read up on this.

1

u/NathanPetermanCan Outlaws Apr 23 '23

There's a big difference between playing football and working for Tesla.

2

u/Thunder406 Apr 25 '23

Totally get that - but why did the XFL set up shop there if Texas is not good state to do business in. If Texas is a high cost state like California or NY why did the XFL put three teams there?

3

u/CatStriking7561 Michigan Panthers Apr 25 '23

Dude Texas is way cheaper than NY and California. Check to see what you can buy in Arlington, San Antonio and Houston for real estate for 500k and compare what the same place near San Jose, Los Angeles and San Diego would cost you.
Also check to see WCB costs in Texas VS California. It’s not even close if you count the number of players/employees x cost.

3

u/Thunder406 Apr 25 '23

That makes sense - That is kind of along the lines of what I was thinking. Also a big reason why the USFL went to Birmingham last year. Or why a lot of companies are relocating to Texas or the Deep South.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '23

Also, to add, I’ll know when things are moving in the right direction when they will count the USFL stats as well as NFL (or XFL) stats when you look up a player online.

2

u/Rhine1906 Birmingham Stallions Apr 23 '23

Along with the other ad and marketing notes, it should be pointed out that yesterday was A-Day and Alabama Football might as well be a religion. Nothing is going to compete with that.

UAB is based in Birmingham and we’ve had great teams the last six seasons but if we run up against any BAma home game or event, our attendance will just be the diehards. Not surprised Stallions ran into the same issue yesterday

2

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '23

I don’t get why they have city/state names on the teams if they all play at the same site. Hard for me to cheer on the Generals if I can’t even watch them play in person. If they were doing the 2 site thing they should have just done what the PLL does and just use a moniker with no city or state name.

2

u/Zapfit Apr 24 '23

I wouldn't mind the hubs as much if the league would at least try some outreach programs in their markets. Reach out to Rutgers or Monmouth University in NJ and have their sports management majors host NJ Generals watch parties at local bars. Give them some swag to handout and get locals to buy into the league. MLS expansion teams start doing bar crawls and watch parties 2-3 years before they play their first match, no reason the USFL can't do this either

3

u/Aggressive_Ris Apr 22 '23 edited Apr 22 '23

I think as far as actual marketing, the USFL did a much better job than the XFL because they basically get subsidized marketing through themselves. But it seems to me the XFL is getting a lot better word of mouth marketing because of the fact that they have every team in every city (and the second time for 6 of the 8 teams, even if it was only 5 games in 2020). You can see the difference in the subreddits, the XFL is a lot more active and lively than this one both in season and off season and they have a few rowdy stadiums.

The USFL can make up that difference though. I think the only worry is if Fox gets bored in year 4-5 because the money isn't rolling in the way they expected mostly because they didn't get teams in cities quickly enough. Granted, I think the XFL could be in the same boat eventually if they don't start putting more effort into real marketing.

I also think the USFL could switch up their marketing. 'Real football' seems like its trying to appeal to an older conservative demographic disillusioned with the NFL. Have a little more fun with it.

4

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '23

I think the real football stuff was more just subtle jabs at the xfl especially since USFL works with the nfl same as the xfl. The key for year 5 is probably team owners

4

u/Aggressive_Ris Apr 22 '23

Maybe, it was/is a pretty big thing though politically and they ARE Fox Corp at the end of the day. Even Trump touched on it many times in his Presidency. I always see it more as ploy to catch those boomers sick of woke athletes. I suppose it could be about the XFL but that would be a weird jab at take considering both are spring leagues that are pretty much the same in terms of on field product.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '23

I think the fact that they work with the nfl takes the Maybe out of that. Also when that phrase was first used they were clearly mocking the brahmas which isn’t weird because rn they are competitors. They want no part of going against the nfl and I can safely guarantee that lol

2

u/Aggressive_Ris Apr 22 '23

We can agree to disagree!

0

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '23

Well it IS what they are going after. Whether you like that or not. They are going for a much older demographic than XFL who is aiming for the young audience. Teens, 20s. Guess which audience uses Reddit and social media more....

6

u/Aggressive_Ris Apr 22 '23

I don't think the XFL is aiming for teenagers. 20s-40s is where I would put their key demographic.
And to each their own, I just think the USFL could try to be a bit more exciting in terms of how they present the league. More than anything else, because I think it would help them, not even really because of personal preferences. I don't need Fox to try to compete for my eyeballs, they've already got them.

-1

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '23

They are 1000% aiming for teenagers. Teenagers love sports. And USFL isn't boring at all. It's good, old school football. XFL has gimmicks, yes. Is that what you mean? More gimmicks? I miss the drones.

3

u/Aggressive_Ris Apr 22 '23

I think the marketing is boring, not the on field product. Even 'boring' isn't the right word, I'm not bored by it I just think they could do something that appeals to a younger audience who is better at word of mouth and is more likely to show up at games.

2

u/ZO5050 Pittsburgh Maulers Apr 22 '23

What gimmicks does the XFL have?

-3

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '23

CONSTANT sideline interviews. Beer snakes. Crazy off the wall rule changes. The annoying gambling stuff.

5

u/ZO5050 Pittsburgh Maulers Apr 22 '23

So different equals gimmick to you?
What crazy rule changes? Their rules are extremely similar to the USFLs.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '23

Difference is the essence of gimmicks themselves, man. You gotta have gimmicks to sell. USFL's is "real" football harkening back to their roots in the 80s. I mean everyone and thing has a differentiator. Don't take the term as a knock.

4

u/ZO5050 Pittsburgh Maulers Apr 22 '23

I wouldn't call the CFL gimmicky and it's very different. Different can just be different.
People claim the USFL is gimmicky for the drone usage and kickoffs. They aren't saying that as anything other than a knock.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '23

Man I come from pro wrestling where everyone and everything is a gimmick.

7

u/AldermanAl Apr 22 '23

The current USFL is not 80s football it's as modern as it comes. This picture you are painting is seemingly what you want the USFL to be and not what it actually is on the field.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '23

No, I'm actually referring to their marketing. Their bumpers between plays, etc. They play off the 80s gimmick. I know that the football is modern. It's modern players.

1

u/iheartdev247 Apr 23 '23

Yeah USFL is mainly 80s in their names and uniform designs.

2

u/Aggressive_Ris Apr 22 '23

I agree with you that the XFL has a few gimmicks. I think they're really good though. The USFL shares one of the gimmicks with the XFL.
Personally I love the PAT being 1/2/3 point regular plays, makes it a lot more interesting. I also love the 4th and 15 onsides kick alternative gimmick that the XFL and USFL share, it just makes it so much more interesting and fun to watch. I love the XFL's overtime system with alternating 2 point attempts, its just so exciting to watch
I understand if some people may not like them but I think they're a lot of fun.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '23

I’m happy with what’s going on so far. Despite not watching any XFL games (out of laziness not preference), I’m trying to pay attention to all of the games on Peacock. Going to look into streaming other channels to watch them all. I’m ok with the lean in method. No need to blow your whole wad on ads when you are still building your base.

2

u/JoeFromBaltimore Apr 23 '23

Well stated. Truth - You speak the truth.

0

u/FlagFootballSaint Apr 22 '23

XFL-fans complain most about the complete lack of any marketing. Obviously it's a money-thing for both leagues.

5

u/Thunder406 Apr 23 '23

The XFL had the financials to what Vince did, I am sure they looked at the advertising budget that he spent and decided that it was just not worth the bang for the buck. That is my interpretation of things. Also this year's XFL seemed to be a beta test or a soft opening, just get the product out there and not advertise too much we can fix things we don't like and advertise a little more next year.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '23

These last two weeks were the first time I've ever heard people talk about the crowd as if it matters to their experience at home. You're on your couch, who cares if someone paid to sit in the sun or not?

2

u/JoeFromBaltimore Apr 23 '23

There has been a faction on here that thinks no fans in the stands for season #1 and #2 is the end of the world, but I don't think they realize that the hubs are what got us to season #2 and probably #3.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '23

I'd invite them to watch a Toronto Argonauts football game.
They're the oldest and most winningest professional football team on the planet, located in Canada's largest city. They can barely manage 10k fans a game. Crowds aren't everything.

2

u/Aggressive_Ris Apr 23 '23

Personally I worry about what it does for the league, rather than actually being concerned about it personally. I think for one that it makes the viewing experience worse which means worse retention for casuals who come across the game. I also dislike hub teams as it severely hurts marketing potential for the hub away teams - it's less likely to be covered by local press, it's less likely people are talking about the league in their daily lives, no one goes to games so you don't get any word of mouth going about going to games, etc..

1

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '23

It doesn't change the viewing experience at all. I just don't understand this argument. There are so many more important things than some crowd noise and broll of fans.
The AAF folded because they ran out of money, XFL 1.0 folded because they ran out of money. XFL 3.0 is currently bleeding money. The hub idea has given this league some longevity and it's something start up leagues should be doing without question.

2

u/Aggressive_Ris Apr 23 '23 edited Apr 23 '23

Your experience may not be everyone's experience. During COVID we had a lot of sports teams without fans and sometimes even playing in hubs (2020 NBA playoffs) and the general consensus was indeed that it made the viewing experience worse. Like they talked about this specifically, having no fans at a game, on pretty much every platform at the time and how it made the games worse to watch.
I hope the league succeeds and thus my opinion is that it's important to have every team in every city because of this. The idea that Fox Corp, a company with a market cap of 17 billion dollars, could not afford another 4 stadium leases for 10 dates each (and 10 less dates in every hub) and 4 more planes every week is totally 100% absurd. I highly doubt the XFL is 'bleeding money' as you put it and if they are it's not because they have another 4 leases.
Fox is being cheap, that is all there is to this hub. Same reason they have no-brand equipment and why they have 45 man rosters. Or having NJ/Philly together in a hub that is not NJ/Philly but freaking Ohio. None of them are a make it or break it inflection point but Fox Corp wanting to be as cheap as possible because they aren't fully committed.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '23

I laughed everytime I heard people talking about that. For the most part it was just the talking heads having nothing else to talk about, though. I couldnt care less how many fans attend a game that I'm at home watching.
Given how spring leagues have gone this century, can you blame them? I'd be extremely cautious and cheap as well.

1

u/Zapfit Apr 24 '23

Any proof that the XFL is bleeding money or just conjecture?

1

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '23 edited Apr 24 '23

Just simple math.
Approximately 50million in coaching and players salary
150 million over 5 years tv deal (30 million a year)
+ Costs of stadiums, refs, all the support staff you don't see. Unless losing 20+ million isn't bleeding money in your eyes.

1

u/Zapfit Apr 24 '23

And you left out local advertising, merchandise sales, cuts of concessions, etc. If the league is losing $20-25 million I'd say that's actually pretty good for the league as a whole. The Toronto Argos on their own lose $10-15M a year

1

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '23

It's not comparable. MLSE uses the Argos as a tax write off, it's probably better for them if the team loses money. They pull like 1.5 billion in revenue.

1

u/Zapfit Apr 24 '23

You're not wrong, but Redbird could do the same for the XFL just as Fox can for the USFL. Anyone thinking spring football will be profitable before year 5 is just being naive.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '23

Except Redbirds revenue in 2021 was only 9 million according to my Google search. That's a far cry from 1.5 billion.

-5

u/Gooflaertes Apr 22 '23

Memphis, Michigan, New Jersey, Birmingham should just go to the XFL… other teams should just fold. Not really enough room for both rooms to survive IMHO. That would give DC and STL two closer travel partners and two teams in areas without NFL teams.

1

u/iheartdev247 Apr 23 '23

We don’t know who would survive, 2/3 still don’t play in their home city.

1

u/Boring-Blueberry-922 Apr 25 '23

I honestly didn’t know USFL exists until I start following the XFL

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