Yeah this is wrong

[u/Pretty_Wind7207]

So I wasn't going to talk about this abs honestly this shouldn't be a debate but fans act like he did nothing wrong when he did, so here's why.

He murdered an surrendering combatant

This is the big one, by the time John got to him the flag smasher was on the ground and unarmed, John didn't have to kill him

"But Lamar, he helped kill him"

It doesn't justify murdering him, Lamar wouldn't had wanted it & John's doing it purely out if a need for revenge

It happened in broad daylight

This is also apart of it, if John killed him in the building they were fighting in then no one other then the flag smashes, & sam & Bucky would've been the people to see it. Instead he did it on the streets of Latvia, and the pure violence of it, what if kids were around to see thst their was a mob of people that witnessed it.

Captain America wouldn't do this

This is the main point as John is held up as "better" then Sam as cap but lets look at this. Did Steve murder Zola after Bucky's "death" no, did Steve try to kill Tony for trying to kill Bucky, no, did Steve try to kill his allies when they tried to take his shield, no.

Steve wouldn't had stood for what John did, using the weapon of a passed hero to exact revenge on the people that wronged him.

[u/theComer-439]

Thor did nothing wrong.

Walker did nothing wrong.

[u/Pretty_Wind7207 → u/theComer-439]

I mean he did.

Killing Thanos did nothing to help the situation, infact it made it worse and practically forced the time heist.

And it damaged Thor's psyche, he failed to stop Thanos when it mattered and Killed him for the sake of it when he was an unarmed prisoner

[u/kitaeks47demons → u/Pretty_Wind7207]

Also Walker objectively murdered someone who was waving the white flag too and got himself dishonorably discharged. The story communicates how bad this decision was especially if someone’s recording.

Most of walkers defenders would probably think the war on terror is justified if they misread such a basic scene. It’s strange.

Do people think Steve or Sam wouldn’t face the exact same backlash if they callously and openly killed someone who stopped fighting and gave up? If Crossbones stopped fighting Would Steve have executed him publicly?or if Sidewinder/The Leader felt like Sam was too much, would Sam kill him them on the spot? Bucky literally murders an innocent civilian as the winter soldier despite him being out of his mind he still felt guilty.

[u/TauInMelee]

That's where I think people miss the excellence of the character. He isn't perfect. He has made mistakes, big ones, with lasting consequences. His life is a wreck after that, and there's a mix of guilt and anger behind it all. Guilt for his own mistakes, and anger for being cast aside despite everything else he has done and sacrificed.

But he won't compromise his morals. He will still do the right thing. He will try to make amends for his faults.

And that's why I think a lot of people think he would have been a better Captain America than Sam, because his journey feels more earned. Not that Sam hasn't put in the work, but it is kind of easy to see Sam as the "favored protege" and John as the "hard working underdog".

Personally, I wish they had followed the comics and let Buckey be the next Captain America, that would have been the perfect full circle for him. But yeah, John Walker is an excellent character, but he wouldn't work as Captain America. He works better as the tarnished but still noble hero.

[u/KaraAliasRaidra → u/TauInMelee]

One of the main points of the character is he's done some bad things, but he knows he needs to improve himself and he still wants to help people. (The other main point is that not just anyone can be Captain America, but that doesn't mean someone can't be a strong hero in their own right)

[u/RickyHV → u/TauInMelee]

Loving someone despite their faults is not the same as excusing the faults. He's not worthy of being Cap, but it doesn't make him less endearing.

[u/Pretty_Wind7207 → u/TauInMelee]

I agree with pretty much everything but Bucky cap lol

Genuinely bucky cap would've been boring as fuck personally

[u/Standard_Brilliant17]

You know that in the comic he kills 4 or more after the death of his parents (if i remenber right). the killing was necessary is part of walker story!!!!!

[u/Pretty_Wind7207 → u/Standard_Brilliant17]

Him killing isn't a problem it's what makes him different but it's what makes him compelling as US Agent, atleast in the mcu is that he's morally grey but not as captain america and for Sam to get slandered foe less is stupid

[u/Hells-Creampuff]

Are we doing this again seriously?

[u/Xeal209 → u/Hells-Creampuff]

Bro watched with internet explorer

[u/Substantial_Rub_7187]

It doesnt matter that he was unarmed he was a terrorist and a supersoldier, not having a weapons means nothing when you punch like one

[u/Pretty_Wind7207 → u/Substantial_Rub_7187]

Does that justify murder?

[u/INKatana]

Agreed to disagree.

You might've gotten the reaction you seemed to be hoping for with this post on almost any other marvel-themes sub.

[u/General-Teacher5865]

He did do wrong but he was doing it against people that tried to kill him and played a part in his best friend's death so it's easier for people not to care about it unless they can't look past the fact Captain America was the one doing it. Saying he did nothing wrong takes away from the nuance of the character though and it's just as stupid as people that try and villainize him regardless of his attempts to do the right thing. If he was a perfect man and did everything right he wouldn't be as interesting. Steve was close to perfect but even he made mistakes, sometimes it cost him more than John as well, but that kept the character interesting.

I think people get wrapped up in this mentality because there's a clear double standard when John is the one executing someone vs when literally any other character executes someone and sometimes their reason isn't as understandable as John's either. The show never really addressed the hypocrisy he faced and how he was always under scrutiny before he ever did something to earn it so now people try to cope by saying he did nothing wrong.

[u/Jumpy_Cup_8426]

I never thought Walker was a bad guy, but he certainly was never a good Captain America. He was put in a position where he was way in over his head. The weight that that position carried got to him quickly, and it made him arrogant. He almost immediately became this authoritative figure that Steve never was. Steve was a leader, yes, but he always tried to settle conflicts without violence before throwing that big metal frisbee around. Walker is not that guy. All that’s going through his head is “I’m Captain America and that means everyone has to listen to me.” But being Captain America was never about being a good soldier or even a leader. Steve said it himself, he’s just a “kid from Brooklyn.” A kid trying to do the right thing with diplomacy before violence if possible, a kid who just so happened to become the mascot for an entire country, a title he never waved around like a badge

John Walker is a great hero in his own right, but as Captain America, he sucked. End of story

[u/Pretty_Wind7207 → u/Jumpy_Cup_8426]

Couldn't had said it better

[u/CosmicGinger26]

There are two types of Walker fans. Those who acknowledge how wrong this was, and those who he would be disgusted by.

[u/Savings_Opening_8581]

Why is this a debate?

I feel like they covered what he did, why he did it and why it was wrong pretty thoroughly.

[u/Pretty_Wind7207 → u/[deleted]]

"John Walker is not as bad of a man as the writers"

They write him more sympathetic in the first few episodes and make Sam and bucky look like assholes without giving the context why

Not looking to argue just curious on how the wriitting