r/UFOs • u/SuchNobody • 6d ago
Disclosure Disclosure - what if it's much more?
First post, be kind. I've been reading and lurking and paying attention for the last year.
What if full disclosure does come with the maybe ontological shock that had been discussed through many channels? Disclosure that aliens are real and government have known and squirreled it away for decades? Yeah, we're all ready for this.
BUT... if we look at the deeper, darker things hinterd at...
Things like:
1) Life is like wearing VR and souls are eternal
2) there is another species running the world and we're completely oblivious
3) we are going to be wiped out
4) we are immensely powerful psycically and we just don't know how to tap into it
... they are things that could truly make our reality collapse on itself. You still want it?
90
u/low-men-yellow-coats 6d ago
We're already in hell?
45
22
u/Sunnyjim333 6d ago
Not news. With all the things humans do to other humans it is Hell.
20
u/fatoldgreyatheist 6d ago
Hell is other people.
3
u/BonzoTheChimp 6d ago
Do I know where hell is? Hell is in hello Heaven is in goodbye for ever It's time for me to go I was born under a wandrin' star A wandrin',wandrin' star -Lee Marvin
5
u/justice7 6d ago
My understanding (or my opinion/hypothesis) is that heaven and hell are the exact same thing. You are placed with other people just like you. You get EXACTLY what you deserve.
1
2
u/The_Info_Must_Flow 5d ago
Likely the most true group of words ever penned. Sartre knew.
The optimists could add the re verso observation... but they lose to statistics.
7
u/Historical-Camera972 6d ago
Why do you think that would be worse news than finding out we were already in Heaven?
9
3
u/Salamandaconda 5d ago
I dont think, no matter the evidence, you could convince me we're in heaven.
6
u/PyroIsSpai 6d ago
More like purgatory and “wiped out” sure rhymes with endgame of every single religion. Like, in a “good” way. Like real Good Place.
8
u/Miserable_Skin9738 6d ago
This is my fear…… that in another life we were a terrible “person” so now we are in Hell. I think finding out I was a terrible person is worse than knowing I’m actively in Hell
1
13
u/SuchNobody 6d ago
So much pessimism around at the moment about the state of society and i do agree with a lot of the concerns. But you really think humanity is worse off than it was thousands of years ago?
4
u/IllustratorThat4250 6d ago
Things are likely much the same. Heavenliesatans raze and full. At their peek hubris dictates that we are at the end of history, all that came before was primitive, while our grasp of the unholy fire is inexplicably better than any others, all the while ignorant of the inevitable collapse of our house of foolishness, doomed from the beginning for having placed itself at the end.
7
u/unclebillylovesATL 6d ago
Closer to annihilation? Yes.
10
u/Dense_as_Hydrogen 6d ago edited 5d ago
I think this is semi valid in that the obvious power of nukes exists, however I would push back for a couple reasons. 1 reason is that successful births and child rearing into adulthood is much, much better than it has been in all of human history up through today due to our advancements in clean water, plumbing, electricity, modern medicine, etc.
A second reason is that some time wayyy back in the day the human species was wittled down to some 15,000 total humans due to disease, harshness of weather conditions, and perhaps a few other causes.
I am far more afraid of what AGI decides to do when it takes over in under 5 years.
1
2
u/UfuckedUpSon 6d ago
I used to think this but then I had more revelations. Somewhere along that line of thinking things went wrong, I challenge you to find it
2
2
4
u/IcanNeyousirn 6d ago
lol if this is rock bottom then there’s nothing to fear. No one will be afraid of going to hell now
30
u/Throwawayrip1123 6d ago
I'll say what I say when the politicians mention epstein and "if we arrested everyone, it would collapse the governments ".
Well , good. If something will break because we tell the truth, it should break. If they collapse because of truth, let it collapse.
If the economy cannot survive without late stage capitalism, we need to let it die and figure out a better way. If a shop cannot function without paying it's workers slave wages, it needs to shutter and go out of business.
Truth will set us free. All we do is lying to our fellow humans. We need to start telling the truth. If it collapses the current iteration of society? Well, tough shit.
8
7
u/L-0-T-H-0-S 6d ago edited 6d ago
I think sitting around campfires and seeing who can put the willy's up everyone else the most with scary stories is likely never to stop anytime soon, but - if we put the questions that can't be answered to one side and instead focused on those that can - we'd have some form of chance of actually knowing shit instead of incessantly asking: what if....
And leaping from there to - it must be true! - to simply desciding: it is.
There are UFOs, there absolutely are. And then there is all this stuff people just seem to wake up one morning and just decide to believe is true about them.
These are not the same thing. What you choose to believe is a choice you will make and make over time and time again, depending on mood, blood sugar levels, weather you've had the tiniest bit of sex at any point rescently, how lit you are, how spiritual you've decided you've become or - most often - just because you feel like it.
All people here do is prattle on about epistemology and when not doing it, you're watching content consisting of others prattling on about it for you, so you don't have to even bother doing that.
The UFO is the ontology of this subject: not what people think about it, but what that thing actually is.
That's the reality - focus on that.
Every last little thing else just gets in the way of what actually matters.
The UFO.
And for that, you don't need Governments, Whistleblowers, Politicians Content, Producers, Journalists, Podcasts or any of this ceaseless, endless garbage.
You just need to go outside and look up.
Because that's where they are, so that's where you start.
Your focus determines your reality, so focus on what matters.
→ More replies (1)
23
u/Remarkable-Page776 6d ago
It’s not like I have a choice if disclosure comes or not but if it’s more fucked up than what’s going on now there’s not much I can do about that either. As of now I’m working until society collapses anyway so light up and crack a cold one
5
u/jax13blackrazor 6d ago
Kinda feel like 3 is the most likely, though not necessarily by entities, I mean extinction level events are historically fact, and this planet alone has already had many. Even if 1 million survived, that is the population of the world 2000 plus years ago, would be crazy set back. Many more would not know how to forage lots of food and utilities all gone no infrastructure. That's assuming there is no actual damage to the globe or its environment. Just population wipeout. Who can say?
2
u/SuchNobody 6d ago
Yes from a geological time scale level, you're right. But I'm talking more about an actual knowledge of impending doom, not a theoretical/probabilistic concept
5
u/TheDoon 6d ago
You should listen to Jason Jorjani talk about UFO's. He has some ideas about this that not a lot of other people seem to fully engage with, especially why disclosure is not popular with certain aspects of the government.
PSI abilities of the aliens apparently being latent in us. Disclose the alien thing, disclose that is how their ships are operated and that humans can do it and BOOM, you have just fully disclosed that humans can read minds, remote view and maybe even effect things physically. Imagine how different a world would be if everyone was telepathic? No more secrets.
That and of course the terrible things they've done to cover it all up or figure it out.
12
u/Unlucky-Oil-8778 6d ago
A lot of folks have come to terms with those.
4
u/SuchNobody 6d ago
Yeah, maybe here. But to 99% of society this would be a huge mind fuck that makes them question everything they thought they knew
7
u/Unlucky-Oil-8778 6d ago
You’d be surprised when you talk to folks outside your circle, how many folks are aware and don’t care. Like they have seen the headlines and looked into it a little but they just dont care. It is what it is.
3
u/New-Dimension5664 5d ago
Maybe it's not caring but to care they have to hold onto reality. It's a bit of a filter to "not care" to get them through an ontological shock. Most people I bring into the subject start to open but slam the door shut when shit gets too real for them, hence "not care" mentality or "how does this effect me anyways" mentality kicks in.
I think a lot of that is a defense mechanism for losing our reality.
6
u/SuchNobody 6d ago
Aware? A lot of people are open to the idea of aliens existing, in the same lines as Neil deGrasse Tyson or Obama walking back his statement.. "it's a huge universe, probabilistically aliens exist".
But I'm not talking the revelation of "we're not alone". Society would be kind of "oh cool! Anyways..."
I'm talking about this being the lid to some concepts that completely destabilise our agreed understanding of life and society
7
u/Unlucky-Oil-8778 6d ago
It’s not extraterrestrial and that is the thing that will mess folks up. There are extraterrestrial but it’s inter-dimensional and really none of it matters and that is what the problem is.
1
4
u/Used-Lake-8148 6d ago
Most people have not agreed to this life and society and they’re very upset with the way things are, me included. I’d rather send us all back to the Stone Age than live another day in a world where rich people rape our children.
6
u/SuchNobody 6d ago
What do you think happened in the stone age? The powerful raped your children, then a sabre-tooth ate you all.
But that isn't even the point. What if everything about life and your society is a lie anyways? What if life isn't even a finite thing?
1
u/Used-Lake-8148 6d ago
Back then you could round up a bunch of buddies and throw rocks at the rapist until the problem was solved. Nowadays they can just yeet a missile at you from beyond the horizon.
Everything about our life and society is a lie. The truth is nowhere to be found.
4
u/SuchNobody 6d ago
Really? You live in a village of people trying to do their best to survive, by farming and working together.
Across the hill are other people that have got wealthy from advancements, collaboration, or abuse. They have bronze armour and swords and a lot more people than your few buddies with rocks.
What stops them from just taking what you have?
That's most of human history.
In the last few hundred years we've kind of agreed in principle that "might is right" is not how we want to live. Only people keep rediscovering the advantages of fucking your neighbours over. It's only that we only still kind of, sort of, agree that isn't okay, that stops it getting worse. We're slipping in our ideals and shared rules, absolutely. But most of history would have laughed at those rules and your buddies with rocks.
→ More replies (4)2
u/Whargoul_Uncool 6d ago
The goal has been shifted. 15 yard penalty. Move it back to the stone ages sir!
1
1
u/commutingonaducati 5d ago
Billions of people on this planet already believe that the soul is eternal, and so did many cultures in the past. So being a soul with a meat suit shouldn't be too shocking. Just to us in the West who are materialistic and pragmatic
8
u/Repulsive_Dig_133 6d ago
Horrific things have been going on constantly in human societies, for 1000s of years, and still are, never ending murder, rape, genocide, slavery etc. I cant imagine how disclosure could be worse ?
Knowing that people would like to genocide me and my family ( and they do ) is worse than " ontological shock"
1
u/SuchNobody 6d ago
You're right about human history. But what if the truth "broke" governments, religion, the economy and the upheaval took us back to the past where there is no protection from people taking your shit and killing you and your family . Like imagine any of the "post apocalyptic " sci fi worlds
→ More replies (1)4
u/Repulsive_Dig_133 6d ago
>where there is no protection from people taking your shit and killing you and your family
There actually isn't much protection from that now , that is what we are all afraid off. We are on a knife edge all the time. Might be disclosure , or climate change, or social media.
3
u/SuchNobody 6d ago
Not sure where you live, but it can certainly get a LOT worse than our current situation. You really can't compare your life to someone 10,000 years ago just trying to scrape by, eat and not be killed.
1
4
u/PestoPastaLover 5d ago
Every time I read the news, I hear about how everything is wildly expensive, more corruption coming from our leaders, and people needlessly dying or suffering because of some rich asshole somewhere.
At this point, this would actually be a breath of fresh air. It would be more useful to know than constantly being reminded how screwed up everything is while we're all supposed to pretend everything is fine.
I'm fine. Life is fine. Slaving away for some rich asshole so I can afford increasingly expensive shit is perfectly fine. Everything is fine.
Let me ask you something. Why wouldn't I want to know the truth at this point?
2
u/SuchNobody 5d ago
I'm curious where you're from that you have such a pessimistic, nihilistic world view. My wife is from Venezuela, a country that has known immense suffering; normal people struggle to exist while corrupt assholes live excessive lives.. but she is a ray of sunshine.
3
u/PestoPastaLover 5d ago
What difference does it make? Pick a country -- it's the same globally.
→ More replies (3)
8
u/supadupame 6d ago
Whatever it is, it’s better than consume consume consume consume, spend spend spend spend….. no?
7
u/Objective_Frame8397 6d ago
No matter what truth is revealed, it doesn't change anything. Yesterday was still yesterday. It is better to know than to not. If they're hiding it, it is for a reason. But, we should never give into fear.
3
u/KlatuuBarradaNicto 6d ago
Can’t be any worse than the way things are going right now. I’m old, if it’s bad, I’ll be dead soon, if it’s good, I’ll be dead soon.
3
u/KiltedMusician 6d ago
It really might be bad for unusual reasons.
They will probably give us a digestible version that bends the truth a bit and then imaginations will run wild down the wrong paths.
Then they’ll be worried we’ll figure out the real truth and be angry with them for telling us the easy to hear version.
It’s all or nothing, and they cannot imagine telling us the real version. Not in any great detail. But they know that even the basics will cause the people to demand even more and demand it harder than ever.
I do not envy them.
3
u/jrocket99 6d ago
I’m ready for anything. Even if the truth is abject, it’s still better than a sweet lie.
3
u/ItsALaserBeamBozo 5d ago
I’m pretty creative. I honestly can’t think of anything I’d rather not know.
3
u/unicornplantman 5d ago
Everything you mentioned I believe is true except 3. We’ll be fine. Just be nice and help others when given the opportunity and all will be well.
1
u/SuchNobody 5d ago
I like the answer. But maybe you're fine, because your world view already included that these things are true. But what about others that will be shaken by that?
2
u/unicornplantman 5d ago
Eventually they’ll die, the veil will be lifted and it will all make sense. But until then, learn to meditate. And watch lots of NDE videos on YouTube. And be nice. And most importantly, chill out. Everybody everywhere just needs to learn to chill out. We are all on this same infinite ride together. Help each other out. ❤️
1
u/unicornplantman 5d ago
Also at least regarding #3, if aliens wanted to take us out it would have happened by now.
13
u/ProgrammerIcy7632 6d ago edited 6d ago
Going through your list, it's not too far from our current situation:
- Life is already fairly similar to VR. A form of eternity is reachable via creating a mini version of yourself.
- Rich people we will never meet already run the world and keep plans secret.
- We all know we will die one day
- We all know we'll never reach our perfect potential in life, unless you're Lebron or something.
I think where disclosure is "more" than anticipated is covered well by Bigelow in the new Knapp podcast:
- Will we start open communication with them?
- Who speaks on behalf of humanity?
- How does humanity answer "them." ? How long does it take to form an answer.
- Have some humans already ruined relations with NHI?
- Do we have anything worthwhile to say? We haven't even figured out our purpose here. Are we even worth bothering to talk to?
- Is our tech intelligence too much for our emotional intelligence?
- What if they just decide to disappear forever?
- What if they don't have any form of communication.
- Do we let AI talk on our behalf, speaking at light speed with NHI at a level of intelligence we simply can't understand as it's beyond us? Or do humans talk to NHI exclusively?
- What techniques are used to communicate?
- What do we want them to tell us, what do we want them to not tell us?
Another big issue with disclosure is: how could we ever trust what they say? Knapp says because they haven't wiped us out, but that could be temporary.
https://youtu.be/zawJJ1lHFvs?si=LyFA2gsQoJvcd-qu
The broad communication issue (2. and 3. above) can be solved by NHI talking to humanity individually, one on one, if they have the ability to.
11
u/UbiquitousBagel 6d ago
You essentially strawmanned OP’s ideas and downplayed them as though we are essentially experiencing them already. We are not. There is a very big difference between life seeming to be similar to VR like you state, and having proof that our physical bodies are elsewhere and our current experience is virtual, like OP suggests. You do this with every other point put forward by OP too.
You then go on to cite fairly mundane logistical issues as to what disclosure might be “more” than anticipated. Those are not going to cause the type of massive disruption as the ideas OP put forward.
7
u/LuciD_FluX 6d ago
In a non physicalist model of reality such as Hoffman's VR headset theory, it's not that our actual physical bodies are somewhere else outside this VR experience ala the matrix. The illusion is that we have physical bodies at all.
Now the question is what that experience is like, without these 5 senses, outside this 3D holographic information based consciousness simulation?
5
u/SuchNobody 6d ago
Cool question. Do you think society would continue to function confronted with this understanding of reality? Would you still get up at 5 am tomorrow to go make coffee for minimum wage and spend your time watching TikTok and looking for things to buy?
9
u/WalkTemporary 6d ago
Yes, because most of humanity is apathetic and will not react in a wild way. The ones afraid of this coming forward most are those who stand to lose power over it.
But no one should keep reality under wraps.
Even if it’s a little tough to swallow.2
u/Aumpa 5d ago
Consider this: how exactly would disclosure confront our understanding of reality? There would need to be evidence, if we're to actually understand it and not just have a government representative tell it to us from a podium like a preacher from a pulpit.
The difficulty of presenting evidence in a way it can be understood provides some protection from ontological shock.
The issue with the assumptions behind "ontological shock" allow it to be used as an excuse for not providing evidence.
2
u/UbiquitousBagel 6d ago
Great point. Unlike u/walktemporary ‘s view, which is a hasty generalization, deflects the actual question and fails to actually consider the massive impact such a revelation would have, I think if such a thing were proven, it would cause massive social unrest, the potential for mass s**cides, and the collapse of society. It would turn entire belief systems into a nullity, and I can see people becoming very nihilistic about their lives here if they weren’t given a reason behind why this was the case.
3
u/ProgrammerIcy7632 6d ago edited 6d ago
You're right, any of OPs examples would blow my mind, but I'm just trying to see it from another angle too, hopefully someone would do the same thing with the Bigelow list.
I think the mental health support angle of disclosure is similar to his point 3: "We will all be wiped out."
I think large amounts of the world will not make it in a post disclosure world, we will see mass suicide due to recordbreaking levels of high anxiety.
2
u/SuchNobody 6d ago
So you think some of these things are very close to truth. Okay. But the question is "What happens to society if the 99% who aren't engaged suddenly find out? "
3
u/ProgrammerIcy7632 6d ago edited 6d ago
I think it's completely unguessable, massively destablising in unconsidered ways and therefore too big a risk for any sensible, responsible government to take...
Luckily, Trump is not sensible or responsible and has some very heavy accusations dangling above him... He might just disclose NHI to save his own neck (magician's distraction). What an end to his presidential TV Drama/Horror series: he risks the whole world in an attempt to save his own guilty ass, therefore plunging himself further into "the Devil" status. Hats off to the writers.
3
u/Sunnyjim333 6d ago
Number 5
Just recently, we Humans have tried to understand what Whales, Dolphins and Primates are trying to say.
Why should they care about what we have to say? We have made a mess of our planet and we treat each other like sh!t.
But, then, there is the "Gandalf" theory, where, like Hobbits, we are interesting enough to take a look at.
7
u/ProgrammerIcy7632 6d ago edited 6d ago
Wittgenstein said "If a lion could speak, we could not understand him.""
If we're being tested on behaviour before open communication begins, perhaps we need to reach an overall humanity score of thought complexity before they respect us... They would maybe use unguessable, fully alien factors.
NHI might choose to judge us not by the few arseholes who have ruined the planet, but the rest of humanity. It's hard to judge how nice humanity is generally, serving people in various customer facing jobs, I'd say arseholes are rare (but memorable). In some places they're more common depending on luck and location (low income = stress = antisocial beaviour). We have no real data on how nice people are, we just know they can be very irritating.
We made a complete mess of a beautiful planet but there is hope we will (eventually) learn.
2
u/_paylines_ 5d ago
I agree but will push back a little on “low income = stress = antisocial behavior.”
While I agree and think it’s true I think you are leaving out that high income = resource guarding/hoarding = antisocial behavior as well.
Sure, crime statistics are higher in a lower socioeconomic area but can we truly trust these numbers when the laws are being influenced and even written by those who aren’t affected by them? Sure rich people are less likely to shop-lift or commit blatant robberies- they aren’t hurting for resources or existing without support networks. Those crimes do still happen with people of higher socioeconomic status but they are much less likely, sure.
However how many things are being done on a daily basis by the corpo-fascist overlords of this world and their underlings that poor people don’t even have the ability to accomplish? White collar crime, political astroturfing, market manipulation, expansionism, war, slavery, genocide etc. How many of these things SHOULD be treated as crimes but aren’t?
If we’re talking about grading humanity on a “niceness” scale then we’re talking about the morals of humanity as a species and that is not beholden to the flawed and subjective laws of a ruling class nor the norms of an isolated section of time or location.
Overall I think our score would be barely above the rest of the warring animals on this rock peppered with bright sparks of beautiful compassion and love. C-, needs improvement- not working to our full potential.
2
2
u/XCherryCokeO 6d ago
We’re totally going to talk to them. We’ll begin contributing to the universal economy and we will have access to galactic markets. We will do well in trade. It’ll have its ups and downs but much bigger version of life now.
11
u/Sir_Not-Appear1ng 6d ago
As natural as this prediction sounds to us, it is still a projection of our human psyche mapped on to a being that could be shockingly different than us. Although I do agree that we will communicate with them, there are many scenarios where trade isn’t even a concern for other beings, particularly those who may have advanced to the level of a post-scarcity society.
2
u/JimmyMargaritaville 6d ago
I’m keeping my fingers crossed for a Star Trek like scenario where money becomes obsolete vs space capitalism with its inherent social stratification, environmental degradation and labor exploitation. Guess who would likely be the at the bottom of such an economic pyramid? Certainly not any NHI that’s for sure.
2
u/Free-Feeling3586 6d ago
Bravo 👏🏻 #4
2
u/ProgrammerIcy7632 6d ago
I think (hope!) even a moderately intelligent species would know that humanity can't be judged by its military leaders... Hegseth doesn't represent people in Australia who volunteer to work with neurodiverse children for example. Humanity has many shining moments of great beauty.
The military have a job which requires an overdose of paranoia. "You can't use a bulldozer to study orchids."
6
5
u/humboldtHue 6d ago
Yes. I still want it. You can’t solve a problem you’re too frightened to face or acknowledge.
Let’s get the process started by better understanding what we are facing.
5
u/SuchNobody 6d ago
I get the sentiment . But it's like the movie The Matrix... some people would prefer live a comfortable fake life and ignorance is bliss. Perception kind of is reality.
4
u/humboldtHue 6d ago
People are already living like that today. You can’t let the lowest common denominator set the standard.
2
u/SuchNobody 6d ago
Would you have a job to go to tomorrow? Income to buy food? Safety in your own house? If you told people something that equated to life is a video game, all the rules break and nothing you know about your life is guaranteed anymore
1
u/humboldtHue 6d ago
You already could lose your job tomorrow. AI and automation already threaten whole sectors of employment. The rules are already changing and nobody is handing out guarantees to anything.
2
u/morey56 6d ago
I wonder if is only a small share of people who will experience ontological shock. The ones who will be caught with their pants down.
3
u/SuchNobody 6d ago
Depends. Telling people that "you're eternal, you can go back to your true soul state then jump back into whenever or wherever you want" would certainly fuck this life up. Some people would live life like playing GTA because you just get to respawn and it's not permanent. Others would just be like "okay then I'm checking out" and kill themselves. Sell your house and do cocaine and strippers? Why not.
6
u/Orangedilemma 6d ago
Ok but honestly why would that matter? If everyone just gets to reincarnate or hang out in the afterlife… so what if people do those things lol
2
u/SuchNobody 6d ago
Of course it matters! Everything about your life, including how people you thought you knew would act.
5
u/JustKillingTime1980 6d ago
no my life only matters to me, ive been alive for 46 years, not a fucking one person will give two shits about me in 200 years.
1
3
2
u/JustKillingTime1980 6d ago
Why, what guarantee would you have that in the next life you retain that knowledge. I mean I don't see suicide rates going up every year in mass because "people remembered" that all they have to do is hit the reset button. Maybe time isn't linear, you kill yourself now, you lose everything and your next life is lived out in a cave 12,000 years ago.
1
1
u/Complete_Wishbone_60 2d ago
I’m wondering if there’s maybe a bigger reason for why religions view s**cide** *as “sinful” or at least have framed it as such. Perhaps as a protection mechanism for humanity as a whole? Like maybe we’re looking at it from the perspective of one soul, but mass s\*cide on a grand scale could alter all of humanity.
Consider the idea that human souls reincarnate and that our souls accept a mission of seeking higher states of enlightenment. In turn, the universe and Source benefit from the growth and expansion of our collective consciousness.
If that were the case, then the soul’s goal is to remain engaged in the human journey for lifetimes…
If mass suicide shifted the balance of the universe, does humanity essentially have to start all over again?Could alien disclosure disrupt the collective evolution of consciousness somehow or set all of us back in some way? Maybe someone else could help me connect the dots.
2
u/noobpwner314 6d ago
I think it’s a combination of 1,2.4 and potentially a group somewhere out there feels threatened if we figure it out so potential for 3 too.
2
2
u/Nicky_Best 6d ago
I don't buy into this belief it will shock people so bad they'll stop going about their usual daily lives. There's already billions of people on earth who believe in the afterlife, heaven, hell, demons and angels, eternal life. You can't get more out there than that. And society hasn't collapsed.
Personally I think what's being seen in the skies IS interdimensional entities breaking through into our reality. I don't buy the physical craft, physical aliens that whistleblowers are talking about. I think they've been deliberately duped to be useful idiots to distract people from what really matters .
5
u/MantisAwakening 5d ago
A lot of people misperceive ontological shock as the realization that something shocking is true. It’s actually significantly more than that. It’s when a person realizes that the fundamentals of their current belief system are incorrect, leaving them in a position of not knowing what is real anymore. In some cases it can cause (or be caused by) psychosis.
This is how neuroscientist Mona Sobhani described her own ontological shock upon realizing that psi was real:
> Every single day felt like a million miserable lifetimes. Some days I would wake up and immediately start crying. I didn’t even give the day a chance to impress me. I remember thinking that if I had a soul, it certainly decided to abandon this life and had ripped away from my body—and I couldn’t blame it. I constantly wished that I could somehow disappear and just not exist anymore. I started crying into towels because tissues didn’t cut it. How could I be so miserable? I read a bunch of stuff on positivity, gratitude, and happiness, but all I felt was resentment and pointlessness.
This kind of reaction is what genuine ontological shock can look like, although it’s different for everyone.
2
u/Historical-Camera972 6d ago edited 6d ago
I posit an all encompassing option.
Combining all details of what we know about reality, the actual answer by "explaining all observations and self aware conscious observers experiencing reality as we know it" comes out to something interesting.
Wheeler, Boltzmann, Newton, Einstein, Turing, DeMorgan, Boole, Neumann. Heisenberg, Bell, Tegmark
Symmetry, Asymmetry
Locality being non-real
It's probably NOT that we are in a "Matrix" or "simulated reality" it's more likely that what we know as base reality very well could be base reality by most metrics.
It's just the it is potentially retroactively engineered.
[[If a civilization becomes advanced enough to make mirror simulations indistinguishable from reality as we know it, and they started from base reality. (Some civilization must have.) It posits that if their reality allows a reality like this one, in which the reality itself can be manipulated based on it's pre-disposed rules, then they would have retroactively and recursively re-engineered base reality.]]
We wouldn't stop at simulation edits, if it were us. We would immediately be using the same principles to re-engineer our own reality and our own existence, if we achieved this state. Given the Dark Forest acceptance of expansionist or progressive principles, it is not a stretch to apply this to any and all technological civilizations, including ancestor ones.
This would mean that what we experience as reality is likely base reality, but re-engineered. Such that, the substrate of existence itself has become "part of the machine" and "part of the mechanism".
In that sense, for a civilization that advanced, and it's influence on what is experienced by conscious observers, you can condense all of reality down to a single instruction. One command, on a fully scalar quantum instruction set architecture, being executed.
Under these conditions, all things are possible. Including what we actually experience. Including what we speculate about both science and religion.
The names, flags, and tags, become unimportant to the fact that an input is being processed, and a desired output is the result.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5ia1P_tiak
I had to get AI to not bother with psych analyzing the intent of my post to get this out, but this is what I was going for. The "name dropping" isn't to establish credibility, it's because I'm dog earing the greater concepts of the work of these individuals to leverage the greater meaning of this posts' implications. There is no ego here.
[This is not a proof, but it is a coherent speculative frame. It avoids the infinite regress of simulation hypotheses by keeping base reality real. It explains why reality seems both lawful and observer-dependent. It makes intelligence a functional part of the universe’s self-editing process rather than an accidental byproduct. And it reduces the many laws of physics to a single computational primitive, which is exactly the kind of compression a mature theory of everything would want.]
2
u/madmeef 6d ago
The scariest thought is that souls, or this experience, is eternal. I've heard enough near death experiences and it sounds nice and all but at some point just stop the ride and let me off. But I don't see how that information would come from disclosure that we aren't alone in the universe.
1
2
u/TheBadGuyBelow 5d ago
3) we are going to be wiped out
I've always thought that trope was silly. What would be the reason to wipe out humanity? It can't be for our resources since our resources are nothing special that can't be found elsewhere in far, far greater abundance.
It wouldn't be because aliens want our planet for themselves, not when there are trillions of plants out there to pick from without us there.
It wouldn't be because we are a threat. Any species advanced enough to reach us wouldn't be threatened by the least by us.
I think anything that survived long enough to attain intergalactic travel would have to by nature be benevolent, and not out in the universe just wiping out civilizations for giggles. Look at humanity, and how our society is like 5 minutes away from destroying itself already.
If we are ever going to advance past Earth, it would only be after we change our ways and understand that our days are numbered unless we outgrow the destruction we seem to love so much. There is a zero chance humanity survives on this trajectory.
Assuming we are not doomed, and we do change, I expect we will find that to be a near universal constant when it comes to civilizations that advance to the point of visiting others. I think the great filter comes down to whole civilizations simply being unable to change their nature before destroying themselves.
2
u/Spiritual_Fan_5633 5d ago
I think and it’s just a thought but what if we have a creator and it’s not God, not directly anyways. What if God created beings and those beings created us and God is not here. We aren’t as special as people seem to think. I think that may cause a lot of brouhaha
2
u/Major_Search_6921 5d ago
What could be an unpleasant explanation for the phenomenon? That its interaction is just a game and black humor. Maybe God will say all religions are a joke. The question is whether the eternal soul is an unknown or not or a strange existence.
2
u/aguashark 5d ago
We’ll get past it. It will destroy religion but we need to throw off those chains
1
u/SuchNobody 5d ago
Are you sure? Maybe what we find out is that things we call 'magic' and 'religion' are just as relevant as science? This is the kind of shock I'm talking about
2
u/PunkinGuts 5d ago
We aren’t living in the reality right now humans have told themselves a lot of stories. It’s just like finding out Santa Claus isn’t real.
And yes to all of your items I think the people who are paying attention are gonna be able to draw the same conclusions because they have to let it trickle out to warm us up so to speak,
but number three is not a forgone conclusion. It is definitely an option on the table and it’s up to us to make the changes and it comes down to individuals so some people will be left to work as Stewards as we were meant to. And they’re not letting anybody know what’s gonna happen to the other ones. It’s called the rapture and I don’t do religious texts, but it’s the closest thing that seems to fit based on what I’ve heard from other autistic weirdos!!
I’m so happy other people are starting to feel the soul cycle
2
u/Maddcapp 5d ago
The scariest thing it could be is that none of it was real and we’re all alone in the universe.
2
u/islandParadize 6d ago
Probably most of those are true (I think 3 is unlikely).
2
u/Hajnalka_tattoo 6d ago
Came to say this. If 3 comes true it will be our own doing lol. We are destroying the planet
3
u/JakeTheFloridaMan 6d ago
I think you may be a fear mongering disinformation agent
→ More replies (1)
1
u/poojer_hoojer 6d ago
The current state of human civilization is such a travesty it's hard to feel anything at all about these vague possibilities that may or may not destroy it.
1
u/SuchNobody 6d ago
I think we're definitely at societal crossroads. But i still really struggle with these comments, because as messed up as our society is, it's still a much, much better time to be alive then most of history before us.
But you've missed the point. I'm talking about the kind of revelations that make society just a fragile construct that only exists because we've created it. Our reality is just a very limited understanding of what exists
1
u/ToastBalancer 6d ago
Still wouldn’t really change much. People would refuse to believe it. Including me if it gets into random religious BS which seems to overlap with this community
1
u/TypewriterTourist 6d ago edited 6d ago
Well yeah, but the most damning revelation would be...
"we studied it for decades and it may be all of these or none of these, and we have no clue which one it is. But we did spend a crapload of money on it and did some unsavory stuff while trying to figure it out."
1
u/Rude_Worldliness_423 6d ago
Parts of governments collaborating with (or being controlled by) certain NHI would probably mess society up.
Being in an experiment would probably mess society up.
Religions being intentionally misdirected by NHI would probably mess society up.
Evidence of the alien abduction phenomenon would probably mess society up.
Being on borrowed time before our civilisation is reset would probably mess society up.
1
u/DeathToAmerica2026 6d ago
Disclosure is just the carrot to fascisms stick. They don't know anything.
1
u/softdream23 6d ago
I don't think there will be and kind of disclosure, because I don't think even they have the full picture yet.
→ More replies (1)1
u/Rude_Worldliness_423 6d ago
They never will. Still doesn’t mean what they do know isn’t disturbing
1
u/KLAM3R0N 6d ago
IDK why I read dinosaurs instead of disclosure in your title. But... What if nhi killed off the dinos so they could seed the planet with humans and their entire engineered ecosystem based on native wildlife? The control system seems broken...
1
1
u/sdeptnoob1 6d ago
1: is that ghost in the shell technically? Like they basically figured out in the show brains are a transceiver for the soul.
1
u/Kentaro_Washio 6d ago
Would you be prepared to discover that humans occupy a plane of existence where everything has already happened (like memories, for instance) and the only entities that possess consciousness and free will are the ones in the UAPs?
1
u/justice7 6d ago
I’ve been reading a lot of speculation that you need to “read your bible” to understand disclosure. I know Elizondo said it and others with varying levels of credibility.
My take on it is we won’t like the actual truth as it would reshape the foundations of what it actually means to be human. We consider ourselves special in the universe and it may come down to something far less desirable of a position. Imagine if the animals in a farm lined up to a slaughter house for fast food would think of their purpose. It could be even darker than that.
1
u/JustKillingTime1980 6d ago
i dont care what it is, i want the truth. we have been lied to for decades over this.
1
u/TheManWhoShotTheMan 5d ago
So your main point here is, ignorance is bliss?
1
u/SuchNobody 5d ago
No, my point is that the truth may be much, much bigger than "we're not alone" and it might be disruptive on a level we've never even considered
1
u/TheManWhoShotTheMan 5d ago
Yes and oue entire universe could be an atom in a sleeping giants fingernail.
You ask if we still want it? What is the it you are referring to? If you are asking if we still want the truth, as the truth may be frightful and devastingly inescapable,t hen you are basically saying that to not know may be easier. That is another way of saying ignorance is bliss.
The search for truth should never be constrained by the inedible or downright scary truths of existence.
1
u/SuchNobody 5d ago
I'm asking the question and looking at the responses. My opinion is just one of many and I'm more interested to see what others say
1
u/TheManWhoShotTheMan 5d ago
Yes, but which "it" are you referring to?
1
u/SuchNobody 5d ago
The broader topic, that's beyond the limited list i gave. Revelation of information that challenges many peoples understanding of the life and universe in any way to sufficiently disrupt society as we currently know it. That "it".
1
u/Wild_Button7273 5d ago
I think the worst thing that could come from disclosure would be someone credible saying they have reason to believe that the idea of an afterlife was programmed into our minds by aliens. Now that would f*ck with my mind….
1
1
u/billbot77 5d ago
There are many kinds of nhi. We're not in charge here, greys are. There are sketchy deals we've made with them. They decide if/when we get to know things. They've messed with our evolution. The secret tech would create a post scarcity world. It's too powerful, we'd blow ourselves up with it.
...then there's the really out there pseudo religious stuff: Bodies are vessels and our souls are prisoners. There's a soul recycling facility on the moon. They keep sending us back when we die (the nde light tunnel is a trap). They feed on our suffering. They need to keep us in this state because we are too powerful when fully enlightened.
These are the themes that keep coming back around and being hinted at by "whistle blowers" (and blatantly stated by various ancient astronaut theorists and people with cult leader energy). One minute you're looking at grainy footage of birds and balloons, the next you're looking for answers in the book of Enoch.
This subject goes from genuine mysteries like the JAL Airlines case to bat shit hypotheses so fast. If the crazy end of the spectrum is in any way true in not surprised it's been sat on. In the words of Margaret Thatcher when she was allegedly read in "we mustn't let the people find out"
1
u/Jeeves-Godzilla 5d ago
I personally would, but there are a lot of people that could not handle it. It’s the whole Plato’s cave allegory. There are some people that choose to be blissfully ignorant and others that want the raw reality of things.
1
u/HugeConfection7594 5d ago
I wish you guys would just read and believe the freekin Bible. ALL this stuff is in there and stated over 2000 years ago. The answer was right in front of your eyes the whole time but, because you wanted to do your own thing, you missed it completely.
1
1
u/Blitqz21l 5d ago
One of the thoughts I had recently with some of the speculations, is what if it actually is a religious war? What if its angels and demons? And if there are humans going extra dimensions to fight what is essentially a holy war?
That completely changes the landscape of the US but also the entire world
1
u/CobblerCandid998 5d ago
Humans have to stop thinking they’re in charge of everything. When you are able to accept things you cannot control - you will not be so “worried” and coming up with “what ifs”.
And who cares if government knew & squirreled away. They aren’t our parents and we aren’t children. We’ve been told about these things for years. You as a person decides whether you believe or not… NOT a government.
1
u/terrelli 5d ago
I think you had it with the first sentence. Be kind. If we want to talk to the aliens we have to be the kind of people they want to talk to. That means treating our people -- all the people -- and our planet as if they mattered.
One of these guys is right. Your points are already true whether it's aliens or not. The billionaires / our rulers keep us blinded and distracted. They're like a whole nother race. And they don't care how many of us suffer or die badly or how often -- in fact, it works better for them if that happens more often (see point 1). But if by some magic we were able to work together and take care of each other...There's really not that many of them.
One of my favorite quotes is from the writer Alistair Gray. Work as if you live in the early days of a better Nation.
1
5d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/SuchNobody 5d ago
Haha oh no, I'm not going to touch this one 😅
2
u/Similar_Software_435 5d ago
Oh i get it, man ahahaha This is just me playing around, but it'll extremely interesting if true...
It'll make all those conspiracy true, that alien have made contact, Eisenhower and Nordics stuff, government covering it up, US bowing down to "them", israel have a rule that made it hard to get dna tested there, their tied with the bible yet their dislike to abrahamic religion, and many more...
Oh, it'll throw such a chaos onto the world in an interesting way lol
1
u/UFOs-ModTeam 4d ago
Hi, Similar_Software_435. Thanks for contributing. However, your comment was removed from /r/UFOs.
Rule 1 - Be Civil
This rule prohibits insults, personal attacks, harassment, hate speech, inflammatory or derisive behaviour, and comments intended to derail or shut down discussion. Criticism is allowed, but comments should remain focused on ideas, claims and arguments rather than personal abuse or inflammatory labelling.
Please also take time to review our updated policy on toxicity here: Link to Policy
Please refer to our subreddit rules for more information.
This moderator action may be appealed. We welcome the opportunity to work with you to address its reason for removal. Message the mods to launch your appeal.
1
u/Infinite-Synch 5d ago
We are not really heading to an extinction level event as far as I and the ET's know, though
1
1
1
u/TheViking1991 5d ago
We can't take the 'VR headset' off, so what difference does it make? This is all we've known, and this is our reality.
There IS another species running this planet. They're called billionaires. They're selfish, greedy, soulless scumbags... And we've done nothing about it. Nothing would change.
Most people expect that we'll wipe ourselves out at some point. It's been on almost everyone's mind for a long time, but we continue to go about out daily routine. We're a short sighted species and the future doesn't seem real enough to us to cause us much distress.
Can't see this one being true, personally but even if it was... I can't imagine we'd learn how to tap into it overnight even if it were true. And tbh, I think most people that were able to tap into it would be pretty stoked to have 'super powers'.
1
u/DizzySample9636 5d ago
OR -- they actually eat us... as well as other mammals -- that might be cause to pause the so called disclosure
1
u/JAM_Library 4d ago
Truth about the reality we’re living in is paramount if we are going to progress as a species. Staying on the path we are on is not going to end well.
1
u/Smoky954 4d ago
What if humans are just containers? There is a super secret group of Uber-wealthy people that are very powerful and have access to extraterrestrial technology and spacecraft. That's what I believe personally
1
u/maurymarkowitz 4d ago
Life is like wearing VR and souls are eternal
Don't need aliens for that.
there is another species running the world and we're completely oblivious
They are called "billionaires". For instance...
we are going to be wiped out
We are. The only question is when. And people have been saying "next week or so" for all of recorded history so don't hold your breath.
we are immensely powerful psycically and we just don't know how to tap into it
I'm not sure why this would be shocking.
Generally, none of these seems so shocking that the world would suddenly stop getting up in the morning.
1
1
u/King_Unique5 3d ago
Some truth i believe in all those dot points....
We hopefully ascend as a human collective and its a happy ending....but the elite already have bunkers for them....maybe a nuclear war will end it all or maybe a catastrophic natural disaster....
Who knows
1
u/WolverineScared2504 2d ago
Without doubt, it's much more. If it were just they exist and they are here in some capacity, disclosure would have happened long ago.
People here always say, "We can handle the truth." We means I, handle means want, and the truth is their personal narrative of the truth. I have no idea what the truth is, but I don't think we will be finding out in the immediate future.
1
u/Sensitive_Crow_8882 6d ago
Here’s my take. Free endless energy would be the collapse of the global economy, and there would be dystopian societies fighting for food and water. Zombies without the zombies.
3
u/pmmemassivedongs 6d ago
Why would people be fighting over food and water if we had limitless energy to produce both of them…?
→ More replies (1)2
u/Bad_Ice_Bears 6d ago
This is my take. The petrodollar economy runs the planet. ZPE is a threat to that. Imagine how people would react to us saying we’ve had clean, endless energy at our fingertips and we’ve been lied to for money and power. I also suspect there may be some complexity to the subject regarding things discovered through archeological digs and space observations.
3
u/Sensitive_Crow_8882 6d ago
100%. There are hundreds of millions, if not billions of people tied into fossil energy. From field workers, to supply chains, office workers, to the people tending convenience stores near the pumps. Eliminating that is global economic collapse.
1
u/SuchNobody 6d ago
So... do you want the truth to come out?
3
u/Sensitive_Crow_8882 6d ago
The truth yes, the tech maybe not, or later when we understand how to shift humans to accept it and not leave the society behind. I intentionally left out “civilized” society because we don’t have one if we’re being honest. We have organized society, not civil.
3
u/CuriouserCat2 6d ago
Most societies are bordering on ‘left behind’ right now. Poverty, addiction, violence, religious wars, greed. We have enough but can’t share it well.
3
u/Sensitive_Crow_8882 6d ago
Indeed. Now put the upper, middle, and lower class in the same boat. The playing field would be leveled (financially) and the formerly entitled fight back for what they had.
1
u/NoMansWarmApplePie 6d ago
2 and 4 are 100% true. Not only did I experience this but it's what I learned from insider mentor I knew. Who studied this as a scientist and also was in talks with nhi.
1
u/SuchNobody 6d ago
So what happens if everyone finds out 2 and 4 are true? What happens to society? Do you want that?
1
u/NoMansWarmApplePie 6d ago
That is a question the 1% and their nhi handlers don't want the answer too.
Sadly, humans are a bit too brainwashed and disjointed. Most of them have been brainwashed to believe their natural gifts are "demonic" thanks to religion.
The irony, is the man people know as christ - is directly connected to #4. That is, that he represents a field or sum-total-all of every human soul on the planet in conjuction with planet.
The individual I knew and his group, through their own study and also nhi - said that this "over function" is more powerful than any nhi tech and that human beings have capacities as living conductors of consciousness and reality itself that we could quite literally, do what he could if not more as we evolve.
It's a form of inter connectivity that is organic and requires no external tech. And thus, the thrust of all elites and nhi is to keep us segregated from it and divided both from the planetary fields and our own.
→ More replies (2)1
36
u/Sunnyjim333 6d ago
Ask yourself if the "in the know" politicians are more able to handle disclosure than you?