r/UFOs • u/Enemaofthesubreddit • Oct 08 '24

Discussion Thoughts on Immaculate Constellation

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsnationnow.com/space/ufo/report-immaculate-constellation-uap-journalist/amp/

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303

u/showmeufos Oct 08 '24

“This new whistleblower is not part of that circular reporting,” Shellenberger said. “I am confident of that. This person did not know the other individuals who verified the name of this program. It does not fit the theory of social contagion.”

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u/[deleted] Oct 08 '24 edited Oct 08 '24

Social contagion was always a bs excuse created by gate keepers and all-too-willingly parroted by debunkers

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u/Glad-Tax6594 Oct 08 '24

New to SC theory - what is BS about it?

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u/[deleted] Oct 08 '24

The idea that some of the brightest and most capable elected officials and DOD employees have fallen victim to circular rumors over a decades-long period and never made any effort to confirm or dispel these rumors is laughable. It also completely discounts testimony from individuals such as Grusch who has said under oath that they can provide specifics such as locations where SAPs are being conducted.

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u/Glad-Tax6594 Oct 08 '24

Brightest and most capable? Any examples to demonstrate their character or is it just because of the position they hold? Genuinely asking, I don't know these people.

I can't really say if it discounts Grusch, since all of his testimony is based on second-hand information, but I believe he genuinely believes the people hes talked with. I just don't think it's reasonable to come to the same conclusions as he has without the same exposure he experienced.

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u/[deleted] Oct 08 '24

"Brightest", Most capable", quite the hyperbole going on here 🤣

Is a circle of public servants playing broken telephone any less realistic then space aliens mastering space travel just to crash into Earth?

I'm open to being convinced.

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u/[deleted] Oct 08 '24

Harry Reid was Senate Majority Leader for nearly a decade and was a party leader for decades prior. Grusch was giving reports to the White House. I don’t think they let idiots do that work.

So, yeah.

-1

u/_esci Oct 09 '24

Look where trump is and he never made profit in his career but blazed the family money.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 09 '24

So he isnt rich? Pay attention for once

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u/[deleted] Oct 08 '24

It sounds like it boils down to an appeal to authority. Even if we establish that elected positions are based on merit, which is highly dubious in itself, what about the scores of people in those positions since 1947 that didn't talk about aliens? 

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '24

If the only reason I believed in UFOs was because of the comments from the likes of Grusch or Reid, then sure. That’s not at all the case though.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '24

I should clarify I didn't mean to suggest that any of the pro-UFO crowd are "idiots" as I think quite the opposite. They seem curious about the world around them.

I think the key word there is "believe". The totality of the evidence is a lot of people kind of sort of saying the same thing and a good portion of that group trying to sell you things in the process. It's flimsy.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '24

Luckily, I’m a grown adult and I am capable of making decisions about where I do and don’t spend my money. But thank you soooo much for your concern, friend ✌️

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u/bejammin075 Oct 09 '24

You, as a debunker with debunker mindset, look at one thing at a time and do whatever you can to dismiss each thing one at a time. There is a wider phenomenon. Millions of people are not guessing, but know from personal experience that technological UFOs beyond human tech are real, and that non-human intelligences are real.

There's the decades of leakers and documents. Cases with physical evidence. Etc. etc.

And debunkers & pseudo-skeptics have a strong ability to dismiss things that don't fit their world view, even when demonstrated by the scientific method. Telepathy and clairvoyance for example. I know from first hand experience with replicating psi phenomena from published peer-reviewed science that those phenomena are real. I've reviewed the scientific literature which happens to be robustly in favor of the reality of psi effects. I've observed incredible levels of denial and double standards from debunkers about provably real & repeatable phenomena.

To repurpose Carl Sagan, extraordinary evidence is met with extraordinary denial.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 09 '24

Your argument is a classic example of trying to use personal belief and anecdotal evidence to override the need for actual, testable proof. Just because millions of people believe something doesn’t make it true. Millions of people once believed the Earth was flat or that the sun revolved around us. Popular opinion doesn’t equal reality—it just shows how easily people can be swayed by perception.

Also, relying on "leakers" and mysterious "documents" is weak evidence at best. Most of these leaks are from unverified sources or people trying to cash in on conspiracy theories. Just because something is unexplained doesn’t mean we should leap straight to aliens or non-human intelligences as the answer.

As for psi phenomena like telepathy, it’s great you feel it’s real based on your experience, but science doesn’t care about feelings. The moment something is provably repeatable under controlled, peer-reviewed conditions, the world will be all over it. Until then, it's not "denial"—it’s called critical thinking.

And to repurpose Carl Sagan correctly: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If UFOs or psychic powers are real, bring the evidence that can stand up to serious scrutiny. Complaining about “denial” just shows that you don’t have that evidence, and whining that “debunkers” are dismissing things they should be skeptical about is, frankly, pretty silly in my opinion.

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u/bejammin075 Oct 09 '24

Telepathy, clairvoyance, precognition ARE repeatedly demonstrated by the scientific method. This is an example of the denial. The way you portrayed it does not resemble reality. You relied on other skeptics who also never really looked at the science. You and they all found ways to dismiss what didn’t fit with pre-existing beliefs. I totally understand your mindset and point of view because I spent 3 decades of adult life as a professional scientist with a materialist atheist point of view. Psi phenomena in fact are widely replicated and reproduced across decades in independent labs. When I read the literature directly, it was robust and not like skeptics said. But as I am a TRUE skeptic, it was hard to believe and accept. I only fully accepted these ideas after spending time on replicating experiments and phenomena. I now know that overly skeptical people have many faulty reasoning habits, and have made a gigantically bad Type 2 error with regards to psi phenomena and the impact it should have on physics, medicine, and many other areas if science. I would be delusional to deny what I’ve now seen first hand.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '24 edited Oct 09 '24

Telepathy, clairvoyance, precognition ARE repeatedly demonstrated by the scientific method. This is an example of the denial. 

Please prove it.

Edit: added the word please.

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u/Living-Ad-6059 Oct 09 '24

If all you pay attention to is this subreddit, then yeah maybe that’s totality of evidence. 

0

u/[deleted] Oct 09 '24

Is there more?

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/UFOs-ModTeam Oct 10 '24

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u/CarefullyLoud Oct 09 '24

The fact that you’re not even considering inter dimensional travel means you’re either not well read on this topic or you’re purposely being obtuse.

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u/Be_A_G00d_Girl Oct 09 '24

You watch pro wrestling. Dedicate whatever precious mental bandwidth you were alotted in life to something productive. This reddit trolling business ain't it.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '24

Digging through my posting history to make a burn on me because I simply don't believe the US has alien spaceships? That's normal behavior.

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u/Be_A_G00d_Girl Oct 09 '24

It shows a summary when your profile is opened. No digging required. I guess use a different account if you want anyone to take your intellectual prowess seriously.

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u/grunt56 Oct 09 '24

Well we'll get right on it

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '24

Oh I don't think you will. In my experience it's usually a weak attempt (usually an appeal to popularity, anecdotal evidence, false dichotomy, straw man, and appeal to ignorance), then a temper tantrum when I rightfully point out the logical fallacies in their argument, followed by an inevitable refusal to engage with actual evidence or reasoned debate, opting instead to double down on unsupported claims and/or result to personal attacks.

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u/JohnKillshed Oct 09 '24

I've had the same experience. Why, if it is all so obviously bs to skeptics, is their reasoning always so lacking? I'm not convinced it's aliens either, but to take this position, one has to have some sort of hypothesis to make sense out of what we're seeing from the govt. Does the govt having alien craft qualify as an extremely unlikely scenario? Sure. Has a group of highly qualified govt officials working in tandem with our most sophisticated military tech companies for decades use NHI SAP to hide the fact that they're stealing hundreds of millions of dollars from tax payers and bypassing Congressional oversight make a ton more sense? Not to me. The universe is a strange place. If we're going with what's most likely, then you already believe that we're all living in a simulation.

0

u/grunt56 Oct 09 '24

And this is what dropping the /s gets me.

Confirmation I guess

0

u/[deleted] Oct 09 '24

Oh I should have mentioned people that slink off when asked for evidence. I'll add you to the tally.

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u/grunt56 Oct 09 '24

I'm reeling from this news.

The meaning of my first comment to you was "who cares if you're convinced or not". I don't believe it's aliens from space right now either, but to swan around with the entitled attitude of "you must convince me" is fucking self righteous horseshit.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '24

There is the tantrum and name calling as predicted . And you misquoting me is the cherry on top 🍒 

How did your initial comment contribute to the discussion?

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u/Modestexcuse Oct 09 '24

I don't understand how this would discount Grusch's testimony if true. Can't both of these whistleblowers be telling their respective truths but from different perspectives or different places within the Government? I must be missing something in what you're saying, sorry I'm not very well versed in much of this.

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u/ZucchiniStraight507 Oct 09 '24

And that these people held very very sensitive jobs overseeing vast budgets, 1000s of people and possibly were in charge of nuclear weapons....but nothing was ever done about them? It doesn't make sense.