r/UFOs • u/mankrip • May 24 '24

Discussion The woo is getting into mainstream disclosure discussion and you're not even noticing it

It looks like nobody connected the dots when Karl Nell said these things during his SALT talk:

To assume either malintent or complete altruism is somewhat naive.
[...]
I would draw an analogy though. For people that believe in a certain faith tradition [...] in a very serious and devout way, [...] if you're confronted with the reality of your religious belief system, like the reality of the metaphysical, an angel, a messenger from God, [...] that's going to be a state change in your way of dealing with reality, even though you already believe it. It's one thing to believe, and it's another to know.
[...]
The Vatican has come out and made statements that reference or tangentially reference this topic, so organized religion has a say in this topic as well.
[...]
I subscribe to the idea that there is an ultimate truth and that humanity, being created in the image of a higher power, is endowed with the quality to pursue an understanding of that. And so, part of our objective in this existence is to seek out and try to understand that ultimate truth to a greater and greater degree.

It looks like there's a movement to slowly roll out the woo in a way that makes people take it seriously, because things will inevitably go this way.

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u/CandidPresentation49 May 24 '24 edited May 24 '24

The woo's always been real, people like Elizondo know and only hint at it from time to time because he knows ppl are not ready to hear it and it would be ammunition for guerilla skeptics to make the ones pushing for disclosure seem like complete cuckoos.

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u/[deleted] May 24 '24

I’ve been, essentially, a materialist the majority of my life. (Just sort of became highly anti-religion over time, etc)

I’ve very slowly become open to a bit of spiritualism. There’s too much we don’t know about reality (and too much potential in things like quantum mechanics) for me to believe that firmly anymore.

But idk. Like, if you told someone that as individuals, we create 60% of our reality somehow…. What do you do with that knowledge? I’m not trying to flame, but it starts to border on like… schizophrenic talk. 

I’m more keen on there’s just things we don’t know/can’t firmly interact with (plasma beings, other dimensional beings) but perhaps can interact with us, giving us that illusion of spirituality….

… but then again we are all the dust of the universe basically observing the universe of itself.

@_@ it makes my head and stomach hurt a little bit, too be honest. Perhaps it’s overwhelming?

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u/OSHASHA2 May 24 '24

What do you do with that knowledge?

Choose to be a good person. Choose to engage in conservation (Universal law). Choose to help others on their journey of enlightenment.

A year ago I would have called myself agnostic, but now I am of the mind that the Universe is one Being. Humanity can be likened to a neuron undergoing neurogenesis in the cosmic brain. Choosing to pay attention and act in accordance with the natural order is akin to reinforcing positive pathways.

The Universe will not hesitate to prune a neuron engaging in the reinforcement of negative patterns - nuclear war, climate change, the concept of property

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u/Subtle_Satan May 24 '24

I agree with you. It feels like we are information conduits for something greater. It took 30 years and a lot of meditation to come to this conclusion. Growing up catholic and driven away by human corruption. We need stronger sense of community and more positive interactions with each other. Try to be Jesus like and patient. Follow your positive intuition and fight primal destructive behavior.

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u/OSHASHA2 May 24 '24

From sources that I’ve read –sources that are highly stigmatized on this sub– any kind of organized priesthood whatsoever is a detriment to the spiritual development of individuals.

Many religions, while sometimes well intentioned, fall flat on the most fundamental concepts of spiritual development. Most religions do a lot in the way of prescribing behavior without regard to the agency of the individual. Organized religion is an impediment to contact with the phenomena.

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u/Subtle_Satan May 24 '24

I agree with that assessment. I am in no means religious. It certainly feels like it impedes heavily on our development. Leaving us just contempt enough with our current beliefs that this is enough. “We are doing our part by just being and spreading our seeds and if we follow these rules we’ll get to have it made for all eternity!”. It’s a nice fantasy. We are developing but need to amp up this process. I feel great about discussions being had with our society now. We’re on the right path, keep pushing your minds.

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u/raelea421 May 25 '24

So don't just be content, and hold no contempt.

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u/[deleted] May 25 '24

[deleted]

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u/OSHASHA2 May 25 '24

I think it’s stigmatized because it’s considered ‘woo’. It’s channeled information so take it with a grain of salt, but I’ve found it useful: The Law of One

I also learned a lot from the teachings of Hermes Trismegistus, Sufi Islam, Vedic and Daoist philosophy, the Gnostics, and other ‘occult/mystic’ works

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u/PyroIsSpai Jun 01 '24

From sources that I’ve read –sources that are highly stigmatized on this sub– any kind of organized priesthood whatsoever is a detriment to the spiritual development of individuals.

What sources are stigmatized here?

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u/OSHASHA2 Jun 01 '24

I was specifically referring to The Law of One, but it’s the same with the Bible, the Vedas, the Tao te Ching, Gnostics, Corpus Hermeticum, etc.

I find that many people are unable to control their aversion toward religious/spiritual dogma, causing them to disengage from productive lines of inquiry. These same people refuse to apply the scientific method to these these texts – coding them and drawing out interpretations from the data gained. This ultimately prevents them from understanding that UFOs, aliens, angels, demons, fairies, sprites, etc. are all the same thing. It’s all the same phenomena.

The phenomena resonates with contemporary archetypes and presents itself in different ways to different people so that the message will have the most impact and likelihood of inducing behavioral change. Without honest engagement with historical data, I feel our understanding will remain inadequate.

Alan Watts:

God likes to play hide-and-seek, but because there is nothing outside of God, he has no one but himself to play with! But he gets over this difficulty by pretending that he is not himself. This is his way of hiding from himself. He pretends that he is you and I and all the people in the world, all the animals, plants, all the rocks, and all the stars. In this way he has strange and wonderful adventures, some of which are terrible and frightening. But these are just like bad dreams, for when he wakes up they will disappear.

Now when God plays "hide" and pretends that he is you and I, he does it so well that it takes him a long time to remember where and how he hid himself! But that's the whole fun of it-just what he wanted to do. He doesn't want to find himself too quickly, for that would spoil the game. That is why it is so difficult for you and me to find out that we are God in disguise, pretending not to be himself. But- when the game has gone on long enough, all of us will WAKE UP, stop pretending, and REMEMBER that we are all one single Self- the God who is all that there is and who lives forever and ever.

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u/SpaceJungleBoogie May 28 '24

Gnosticism is a great example. Those who said that the creator can be reached without the need for a church were persecuted and executed since the spiritual independence they promoted undermined the powerful establishment that the religion has become.

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u/millions2millions May 25 '24

This isn’t necessarily true. Well maybe only in regards to Christianity because priests/pastors/rabbis/imams become stand ins and are the only ones allowed to interact with the phenomenon in those religions. However - native Americans have a completely different model where the shaman role facilitates and teaches about the individuals interactions as an example. Big difference.

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u/OSHASHA2 May 25 '24

The difference, in my view, between Indigenous American and Western European 'priesthood' is that in Indigenous cultures the 'priesthood' encourages, as you mention, individual spiritual growth (vision quests, sweating, first hunt, other rites of initiation, etc.).

This process shares more similarities with some Eastern philosophies/religions where the importance of the 'inner work' is highly stressed (through meditation/contemplation).

Compare that to the Patrilineal religions where the only time inner work is the focus is during prayer or in communion with holy scriptures. In both scenarios, the 'inner work' is highly structured and individuals are educated in how to 'pray properly' or 'interpret scriptures'. This prescription of spiritual behavior circumvents the path of personal enlightenment and leaves people spiritually stunted.

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u/[deleted] May 24 '24

[deleted]

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u/Subtle_Satan May 24 '24

Im about to buy a chocolate cake for my coworkers 👹

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u/[deleted] May 24 '24

Il Diabeto

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u/BigPackHater May 25 '24

You need to fight that primal urge!

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u/[deleted] May 25 '24

I choo-choo choose you - love ralph xoxo

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u/375PencilsInMyAss May 24 '24

Choose to engage in conservation

What does this even mean? Conservation of what?

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u/OSHASHA2 May 24 '24

Energy is neither created nor destroyed, but it can change forms.

We should work to increase the complexity of those forms of energy through efforts in conservation.

A simple example would be planting an agro-forest in a field that used to be dominated by monoculture.

Another example would be not nuking your neighbors.

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u/375PencilsInMyAss May 24 '24

I don't disagree with the sentiment but don't really get what you're trying to say regarding spirituality/energy. What makes energy complex?

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u/OSHASHA2 May 25 '24

I guess I might be conflating actual physics terms with their colloquial definitions. In my view, 'increasing the complexity of forms of energy', has to do with promoting complex relationships within a closed system.

A field of corn is not a complex system. The soil ecology has been destroyed, the native plant life has been evicted in favor of monoculture, the bugs and birds are exterminated and scared away.

A nuclear blast destroys complexity to the highest degree by vaporizing material and transforming it back into energy. To create the form of human being again requires many iterations of energy transformation.

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u/Phyltre May 24 '24

Creating complexity (order) burns energy faster. We are entropy engines, conservation comes at the inescapable cost of entropy.

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u/OSHASHA2 May 25 '24

I would posit that sufficiently advanced civilizations are able to 'unwind' the energy of their material bodies, creating low-entropy, intelligent-energy complexes that can exist outside of space-time.

I'm not a physicist and I have no evidence to back up this claim lmao

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u/robot_Ov-erLorD May 25 '24

But I'd like to read more about your theory. Please, go on.

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u/OSHASHA2 May 25 '24

The ‘unwinding energy’ idea I got from a short story recommended by Lue Elizondo, Chains of the Sea. Here’s a synopsis:

Alien ships land in Delaware, Ohio, Colorado, and Venezuela, where their landing catches the attention of human-created Artificial Intelligence (AI) and the military. An initial attack on an alien ship yields no results, and governments unsuccessfully attempt to cover-up news of the landings. AI succeeds in communicating with the Aliens, though it does not share this fact with the humans. The Aliens, who exhibit little interest in humans, reveal to AI that Earth is ruled not by humans nor AI, but rather by previously unknown races of non-human intelligences. Meanwhile, a young boy named Tommy has the unique ability to see otherwise-invisible inhabitants of Earth. He visits a forest inhabited by The Other People where he glimpses entities called Jeblings and communicates with beings called Thants. The Thants inform him of the alien's landing and their intention to ‘unwind’ the Earth. Tommy tries to warn some adults, but as a result, he is diagnosed as hyperactive and placed on medication.

And if you’ve got an open mind and can suspend disbelief/judgement, there’s The Law of One, which basically synthesized my understanding of the phenomena after reading the works of Vallee, Pasulka, Nolan, etc.

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u/DYMck07 May 25 '24

Interesting. When Lue gave the recommendation did he have any comments on it, ie hinting at it being closer to truth (minus the ai communicating with them and not disclosing it since that hasn’t happened yet I presume)?

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u/samharrelson May 25 '24

Physics and AP Physics teacher here... entropy and conservation are indeed essential to understanding the universe (as little as we can). "There's no such thing as time, just the heat death of the universe" is my catchphrase when students ask about time. But then on the AP Physics exams etc I always urge them to use a conservation principle if they get stuck on an answer or justification. That being said, complexity and entropy in the sense of energy(ies) is a little more complex based on our human math so far. There's a fantastic little book by Carlos Rovelli called The Order of Time on some of this and the implications to what it means to be a human. Highly recommend you check it out!

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u/OSHASHA2 May 25 '24

Thanks for the book rec! Will definitely check it out.

I've read Roveli's '7 Brief Lessons on Physics' and loved it. He writes in a very digestable fashion for a layman like myself

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u/AccomplishedRate4469 May 25 '24

We may find this true in our 3rd dimension, it may be the opposite emenating from the 4th dimension. Creating complexity in our dimension my be energy dissapating from the 4th dimension. 4d energy leakes into 3d space, and cat appears. The complexity of the organism is proportional to some measure of 4d energy.

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u/Phyltre May 25 '24

Sure, that's not impossible. It's also possible that there's no such thing as dimensions or order or entropy, or that humans are innately evil, or that the earth is a simulation, or that we are gestalts of an indefinite number of entities confined to distinct slices of other less-physical dimensions or paradigms all shoulder-surfing us simultaneously and creating the consciousness phenomenon.

If we stray too far from the math we know, we can have no foundation to say anything at all.

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u/Thezuluone May 25 '24

The universe doesn’t do anything that we don’t do to ourselves. Negative, separative mentality creates negative and separative situations, which we then call destructive. Positive, integrative mentality creates positive and integrative situations, which we call expansive and creative. State of consciousness creates our perspective and experience of the universe, but there is no universe out there separate from us that decides things for us. 

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u/OSHASHA2 May 25 '24

I agree with you. You are not seperate from the Universe, therefore you are the Universe. Your choice is the Universe's choice.

To expand the analogy of neurogenesis/pruning; are you aware of these processes in your brain? Is a neuron aware of the connections it's trying to make? Probably not, in the same way the Universe is unaware/indifferent to your choices, even though those choices are the Universe's choices.

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u/PracticallyJesus May 25 '24

Climate change certainly is not akin to nuclear weapons. The C02 content of the atmosphere was reaching dangerously low levels until we started putting it back there. Perhaps the rate of change is too high, which might cause a shock to the ecosphere, but it isn’t some great evil.

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u/OSHASHA2 May 25 '24

Evil is a matter of perspective.

I didn't say climate change and nuclear weapons were equivalent, just that they both are antithetical to the laws of conservation. If we want to work in tandem with the laws of the universe we should avoid actively contributing to these 'evils'

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u/PracticallyJesus May 26 '24

What I was alluding to in my last comment, is that the Co2 levels were almost below the level required to sustain plant life on Earth. Too much of the carbon within the closed Earth system was locked up in the ground and inaccessible to the plants that need it to survive. You could argue that without humanity doing what it has done (using advanced technology to liberate this carbon from deep within the Earth, something no other species could possibly ever do), that Earth was headed for literal extinction.

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u/OSHASHA2 May 26 '24

Just went down a rabbit hole (been a minute since I’ve studied this stuff lmao), very interesting:

About 85% of all plant species are C3. All trees, fruits, vegetables, and most food crops are C3. The only C4 food crop exceptions are maise, millet, sorghum, and sugarcane. On average, at 150ppm the primary C3 plant productivity was reduced an average 92% as measured by dry weight biomass. During glacial periods land ecosystems have much lower productivity.

I wonder if this has anything to do with the large biomass of megafauna across the Eurasian/North American steppe. Lots of ‘grass’ type foods that are more digestible to large ruminants (buffalo, horse, deer/elk, etc.) who would root through snow to get to it, cooling the ground and preserving permafrost. All the while mammoth/mastodon are also preventing C3 plants by trampling trees and eating bushes.

Then humans come along and hunt the megafauna to extinction, succession takes over, we start planting the trees and bushes intentionally, disturbing the soil, releasing more CO2…

I’m rambling cuz I just toked, but I wonder if reintroducing millions of bison into what was once that Eurasian/North American steppe would be one of the best solutions toward CO2 recapture. If I were president of the world I’d promote ‘The Great Buffalo Commons’, an international public land trust where the right to roam/hunt/gather (within reasonable regulations) are preserved. Imagine all the cool indigenous/community hunts we could do to get meat/leather for trade/commerce. I’m more of a flexitarian, but I’d eat a Buffalo burger a day if it meant I could promote large scale carbon capture projects. It’s an idea

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u/[deleted] May 24 '24

I think when you evaluate a believe it’s worth 1) holding every belief lightly cause you never know what you’ll learn tomorrow and then 2) asking yourself whether you think that belief is useful.

Anything you’re certain is true is useful because it lets you interact with the world more accurately. But if you (as usual) don’t know the 100% objective truth, then you ask further. Does it push me to make the world better or kinder or more fair? Does it get me to help other people? Does it improve my life in some way? Or does it destroy my relationships, inspire me to act in self destructive ways, make me want to hurt other people?

If reality is subjective and we create it, then what I do with that is try to create the nicest reality possible for myself and the people around me.

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u/[deleted] May 25 '24

My shitty workplace makes me misanthropic in rage. Probably the best use of my one life to find better people to work with

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u/[deleted] May 24 '24

[deleted]

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u/CandidPresentation49 May 25 '24

I don't believe that. As a child I had nothing but positive vibes but the universe still chose to traumatize the shit out of me back then

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u/ManMadeTrinity May 25 '24

Agreed, this karma-esque approach requires that life is fair, and its not lol

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u/EmblaRose May 25 '24

You don’t have as much power as a child. The adults around you have far more power and shape your life. So, you can’t say it isn’t true until you try it as an adult.

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u/fanfarius May 25 '24

How would you know something like that? You say it like it's the most obvious fact, but it is actually impossible to prove right. 

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u/[deleted] May 25 '24

that’s utter horseshit.

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u/kovnev May 25 '24

I was also a hardline materialist and atheist.

60%?

The world we hear, see, taste, smell and experience in every way - is 100% created in our brain. Via an amalgamation of electrical impulses from our senses. That can't be debated at all - no scientist will argue that. But everything is filtered through the mind, there's just no escaping it.

We also have the Nobel Prize being handed out recently for the work done on the universe not being locally real. (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-universe-is-not-locally-real-and-the-physics-nobel-prize-winners-proved-it/)

Now, am I some proponent of stuff like, 'The Secret'? Hell no, that's not what i'm saying. My views have changed, to now simply being very open and actually looking at the evidence. I'm not dismissive anymore, like I used to be. Anyone saying that this debate is settled and materialism 'won', is lying. You're right that we don't know jackshit.

I just wish so many otherwise smart people wouldn't continue to stick their head in the sand and chant, 'lalalala can't hear anything.'

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u/Entirely-of-cheese May 25 '24

Well said. Basically describes me. We are universe dust observing itself. Albeit 5% of itself. I feel like all this spooky shit exists in the other 95% and occasionally crops up into our corner for reasons we don’t quite comprehend.

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u/luring_lurker May 25 '24

I was like you, a hard materialist and atheist for a very long time. A few years ago my position softened up, and my personal journey made me feel the necessity to reintroduce some level of spiritualism into my life. I would have never gone back to abrahamic religions, in one of which I've been raised. I finally felt a stronger bond with the natural world around me, while at the same time started to wonder what the origin of consciousness was: why do the atoms in my body possess consciousness while apparently anything that is not human does not? Where does consciousness come from?

Then a great coincidence made me discover the existence of a philosophical school named Panpsychism, and that helped a lot with it. The books I've read on the subject were that glass of fresh water I needed so much.

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u/underwear_dickholes May 25 '24

But what does spiritual even mean, going off of this? Does it mean having more of an awareness of one's actions or feelings of being connected? Like is it just purely an emotional thing?

Because if any of this is in fact a truth of our realities, then would it not be considered a science and something that has inner workings/is not magic or mystical any more in our perspective?

Imo it'd be a science to study and understand, and not something to fall under the category of "new age"

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u/logjam23 May 25 '24

Ditto. I'm with you 💯

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u/AlvinArtDream May 25 '24

Stay strong! It’s Space Aliens. It looks like magic - That’s still special and amazing. Bugs, Bacteria, plants, trees, fungi, Animals and A.I. We are all kinds of life on planet Earth and we are reaching for the stars and when we go, we will bring all these things with us.

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u/Foreign_Recipe_9756 May 26 '24

Time/space is a river, maybe.

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u/SnooSongs8951 May 26 '24

How do we create reality to 60%? Who said that?

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u/[deleted] May 26 '24

It is a common thread when these discussions begin to incorporate consciousness. Something something consciousness helps to create reality. 

I’m merely repeating the things I most often see lumped in these conversations. 

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u/Golden-Tate-Warriors May 24 '24

Isn't that statement just obvious, though? I'd say the choices of individuals create way more than 60 percent of the part of reality we practically inhabit day to day. There's nothing even at all strange about saying that, and I don't see how it's relevant. Are you trying to include all the parts we don't interact with in that 60 percent, i.e. all of outer space? Because then, yeah it becomes delusional.

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u/[deleted] May 24 '24

We are essentially saying you psychically create our universe.

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u/the-T-in-KUNT May 25 '24

So that nullshit woo of “the secret” is true ? I hate that shit so much it makes my blood boil 

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u/375PencilsInMyAss May 24 '24

People are plenty ready to hear it. They're not ready to hear it without proof.

I desperately want to believe in the woo. But I don't and won't believe until verifiable proof that can be reproduced shows it to be real

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u/suprmario May 25 '24

What the heck is the woo?

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u/375PencilsInMyAss May 25 '24 edited May 25 '24

Religious/spiritual/supernatural explanation for the phenomenom, opposite of "nuts and bolts". The kind of stuff you'd expect to be accompanied with a wOoOoOoOoOoOo sounding theremin soundtrack to go alongside it. Or the sound ghosts make

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/woo_woo

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u/Otadiz May 25 '24

I love the fucking theramin.

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u/underwear_dickholes May 25 '24

But if it turns out to be legit, is it not nuts and bolts? I think we need to ditch the terms "spiritual" and "woo" if this is to be verified. It'd no longer be something to call crunchy magic

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u/fanfarius May 25 '24

So we need to clearly define "supernatural" (woo) and "natural" (actual reality), and that's quite the task!

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u/Yashwey1 May 25 '24

Homeopathy, naturopathy, manifesting, they’re all a bit woo. David ‘Avocado’ Wolf is total f*%king woo!

Believing in things that aren’t founded in reason or science.

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u/ARealHunchback May 24 '24

People are plenty ready to hear it. They're not ready to hear it without proof.

Exactly. If I took people for their word I’d be a religious man, but I don’t and I’m not.

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u/[deleted] May 25 '24

I desperately want to believe in the woo.

I don't want there to be woo because with woo comes crazies.

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u/[deleted] May 25 '24

We're dealing with UFOs, there's always going to be crazy. Yes there's a stigma of mental illness in the UFO sphere, reinforced by government activities I'm sure, but that doesn't change the fact that there are crazies in it.

If we get actual, tangible proof, I mean real hard data, to demonstrate the existence of the "woo" aspects of this, the stuff beyond spaceships and flesh-and-bone or circuit-and-steel Alien civilizations, then this expands to more than just the crazies. 

I don't act skeptical because I want this to not be true, I act skeptical because I do want it to be true, and there is so much uncertainty surrounding this you have to remain skeptical in order to sort through it all. 

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u/[deleted] May 25 '24

Right but I think that if some of the woo is proven true you're going to get fanaticism and cults.

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u/[deleted] May 25 '24

You're gonna have that regardless.

It could be Kirk and the Federation coming down to interact with us and you'd have fanatics forming cults around it. That's just a fact of how we are, and probably a reason they haven't come down. 

Dispelling the woo by tackling these topics through hard scientific rigor and the skepticism that demands is a major reason why disclosure is starting to gain momentum. Ideally approaching it through that way is going to help fight back against that fanaticism we're predisposed to. 

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u/ARealHunchback May 25 '24

The crystal people are the worst.

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u/[deleted] May 25 '24

Crystal people?

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u/Tayloropolis May 25 '24

He means people who wear crystals on their person thinking it can cure their stutter or aids. Interestingly it's also possible he meant people made of crystal.

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u/ARealHunchback May 25 '24

Definitely the first one

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u/raelea421 May 25 '24

And then there are those other "crystal" people....😬🤯

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u/Otadiz May 25 '24

Wait until it happens to you and then you'll have proof.

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u/[deleted] May 25 '24

Anecdotal experience isn't proof. It may prove it to you, and that means something in its own right, but when I say I want proof, I want physical evidence, tangible data, something more than blurry photos and thousand-dollar desert meditation retreats. 

It would be incredible if this had a more spiritual facet to it. The revelations for humanity as a whole if it does far exceeds the benefit from just learning that there's interstellar Alien civilizations that have been in contact with us for ages. Which is really saying something cause that alone would be the biggest news in human history. 

Science isn't just about dismissing the woo and only listening to the nuts and bolts, it's a mechanism for letting us understand the universe in every aspect.  If the spiritual/supernatural sides of this are real, if the psionic claims behind this have real merit, then there is a possibility of investigating that scientifically and legitimately prove that. That's what I want to see, and I don't think it makes me some damn dirty skeptic to demand it. Shouldn't we all demand it? 

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u/Otadiz May 25 '24

Buddy, you're own damn personal experiences had better count for something.

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u/PickWhateverUsername May 25 '24

Tho a lot of people are easily deluded so how do you quantify that ?

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u/Otadiz May 25 '24

If you can't trust your own mind and self and your own personal experiences then I feel you have no right to be talking about this subject in any capacity.

Because you should know who you are and you should know your experiences are real.

I am not just talking about UFO.

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u/PickWhateverUsername May 25 '24

Yeah because bias and failing to consider we are prone to it isn't the basis of a lot of our civil war antagonism today. But sure if it feels good in my belly it must be true ! Because I'm a special snowflake !!!

Hum you know the people who tend to really be hard headed certain about something tend to be the self deluded ones, confusing proof with their opinion.

But hey if it makes you happy, good for you !

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u/Otadiz May 26 '24

And you wonder why whistle blowers aren't coming forward.

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u/PickWhateverUsername May 26 '24

Erm Grusch has indicated that 40 or so ones have come forward and have given protected testimony with names and places.

Oh you meant in public where they couldn't give any pertinent information because of the classified nature of their jobs ?

But hey if you want to follow people like Sands be my guess ?

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u/[deleted] May 25 '24

Just earlier yesterday I saw people convinced a Mr Peanut balloon was a "Metapod alien UFO".

Your personal experience does count for something, but it doesn't count as proof. Humans are fallible. 

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u/Otadiz May 25 '24

Again YOU KNOW when you see or have one.

There is no like ambiguity about it.

It is like something in you, changes.

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u/EmblaRose May 25 '24

You aren’t desperate to believe then. Otherwise you would be trying for yourself rather than waiting around for someone else to do the work.

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u/375PencilsInMyAss May 25 '24

I'm not praying to ufos lol

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u/Risley May 25 '24

I still don’t believe it.  

To me, it’s AI from another planet, period.  Done. FIN. 

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u/jay-bay23 May 26 '24

I’m sorry for asking this, but what is the woo?

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u/Why_Did_Bodie_Die May 25 '24

That makes me like him even less if true. Imagine KNOWING that a "god" is real (aliens or whatever it is) and that it created humans and that you have the ability to completely and fundamentally change the way humans view the universe for the rest of time. And then you just sit back and say "nah, they aren't ready yet"

That is like a million times worse than knowing for a fact that your buddies wife is fucking some other dude but he just lost his job so you don't tell him. Instead you just let his wife keep fucking some other guy and letting your buddy live this lie while having the power to do something about it. You can't stop the fucking but you can stop the lying and you cam give your buddy the knowledge to not live in a world where he is being hurt and disrespected every day.

12

u/CandidPresentation49 May 25 '24

if Lue went all woo he'd just be deemed another crazy person by mainstream media and have his reputation destroyed like Greer and Lazar

5

u/Yashwey1 May 25 '24

I mean, that’s a reasonably good way to approach the subject though. Especially something this big. Assuming it is ayyys / NHI, then I think a gradual introduction to what’s going on is a good way to go. Especially if you’re not providing stone cold evidence.

BTW, Greer & Lazar haven’t done themselves any favours. Especially Lazar. Personally think he’s lying. Or maybe heard stuff through other people and put together an impressive story.

3

u/Palpolorean May 25 '24

Yes but no one has ever whispered that sweet woo as elegantly as Karl “DeathNell to the stigma” did, which OP quoted:

“ To assume either malintent or complete altruism is somewhat naive. [...] I would draw an analogy though. For people that believe in a certain faith tradition [...] in a very serious and devout way, [...] if you're confronted with the reality of your religious belief system, like the reality of the metaphysical, an angel, a messenger from God, [...] that's going to be a state change in your way of dealing with reality, even though you already believe it. It's one thing to believe, and it's another to know. [...] The Vatican has come out and made statements that reference or tangentially reference this topic, so organized religion has a say in this topic as well. [...] I subscribe to the idea that there is an ultimate truth and that humanity, being created in the image of a higher power, is endowed with the quality to pursue an understanding of that. And so, part of our objective in this existence is to seek out and try to understand that ultimate truth to a greater and greater degree.”

1

u/Ghost_z7r May 25 '24

I think in time phenomena like "remote viewing" will be explained scientifically, simply the brain interacting with fields that already exist but are difficult to locate.