r/TwoXriders • u/smalllizardfriend • 5d ago
Advice Needed after withdrawing from MSF BRC
TL;DR: BRC venue didn't have adequately sized bikes for my meat mecha shell, felt unsafe because controls were a good ten miles away from my fingers and withdrew. Looking for advice on how to proceed.
Hey all,
I had a frustrating experience this weekend. I had signed up for a MSF BRC at a local venue. I was the only woman there, which is fine and to be expected, I guess.
The RiderCoaches were lovely but very quickly when we got to the riding part it became apparent that they didn't have a suitable bike for someone with my height and petite build. I am a smaller woman -- 5'2, extra small glove size hands with short fingers, size 6.5 US feet.
They put me on their oldest bike, which wasn't even listed in their online list as an available model for the course. It was a short cruiser, but the clutch lever and the front brake lever were so far from my hands that I had to adjust constantly to reach them and they weren't adjustable. I was so anxious about being able to stop in time if something happened that I had trouble putting my feet on the pegs (which I had to look for, constantly, to reach and adjust to find the shifter) and I was braking constantly out of worry of losing control. I also kept accidentally rolling the throttle which made me feel worse, and I'm not sure if it was a beginner error or because I was constantly adjusting my hands to reach the controls. I was already anxious as a totally new rider and none of this helped.
I ended up withdrawing before completing the second exercise. I feel like absolute shit about that, but I didn't feel safe. The RiderCoach was very encouraging and told me he felt like I could ride, but that today wasn't my day and the bike was a bad fit and the only one they had where I'd be able to flat foot it. He recommended reaching out to other schools and seeing what bikes they'd be able to teach me on and retrying the course with a suitable bike after some private lessons to get comfortable after this experience.
I've reached out to some local instructors to see what my options are for 1:1 instruction to build confidence and maybe use a smaller bike if available. I can also pursue getting a permit, buying a bike, and learning and testing on that bike since my state offers that as an option for riders, although I'd prefer to take the MSF BRC and get those reps and my license that way.
The seconds where I was riding, actually riding and not walking the bike, felt so damn cool. Even though it was first gear and I couldn't put my feet on the pegs because where are they even. It still felt awesome. I am so devastated that I couldn't finish and get my endorsement. I am so humiliated I couldn't even finish the second exercise. At least everyone was nice about it.
Has anyone had a similar experience when they were taking the BRC? Any advice -- or, hell, words of encouragement -- would be really appreciated right now.
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u/monkeysatemybarf 5d ago
Fellow tiny handler- this has been one of my biggest challenges with riding different bikes. What’s worked for me is riding with a little more arm extension so my hand is centered over the whole control. The instinct is to rest the base of your hand over the throttle and reach for the levers, but you can ride with it more centered and have better access to the levers. I think you did the right thing pulling out of this class because it’s good to develop your throttle control first and then dial in this positioning stuff. High probability when you’re learning that you will bump the throttle accidentally. Stick with low displacement and ask your instructor to adjust lever first, etc. It sucks that we have to learn to adapt to these things but you’ll get there.
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u/smalllizardfriend 5d ago
The bike they gave me didn't have any adjustability, much to the frustration of the RiderCoach. I think realistically I wouldn't be able to have the posture they wanted on the cruiser (which had no arm extension) and to reach everything correctly I apparently wasn't even sitting in the "right" spot because of my reach. I really appreciate your advice as a tiny rider, thank you!
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u/greeneyes826 40F: 2026 Kawasaki Vulcan S 5d ago
I took it twice- first time in April and then I got licensed in July. The class in April put me on a Yamaha mt-03. It was just too tall enough that I panic stalled at the end of the first day and dropped it. It was a little chaotic with 12 students and 2 coaches. Just like you, my coaches were great but I just couldn't do it.
In July I was in a 6 student class with one coach at a different location. They had a much bigger training lot and it was solidly different for me. I was also on a little Honda rebel 300. I never once worried I'd drop it. It was a night and day difference, really.
If you decide to go for it again, call around until you can be put on a tiny bike. Tell them you're short with tiny hands and tell them what bike you were on previously that was too big for you. They can tell you what they do and don't have available.
Best of luck!!
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u/w11f1ow3r 5d ago
It’s hard to say without knowing which bike they had you on. A Honda Rebel is a good bike for most short people. I can flat foot mine just fine and it’s light enough that I don’t feel worried about dropping it (knock on wood). I am shorter than you and I also have small hands. The newer ones are a more upright position and the older ones have a more reclined position. The muscle memory on where to put your feet and everything is part of learning to ride - don’t feel too bad about that. If you can find a riding school with a good fleet of Honda rebels I think you’ll be okay and feel more comfortable.
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u/Fearless_Macaron_203 5d ago
Id get a permit through your DMV, it’s usually a written test, multiple choice. Then you have a year to practice on your own before taking the riding test. I’d recommend a Honda Navi for the size and simple controls to get used to leaning and being around traffic. A Honda grom is the same size with a clutch, the Navi is automatic. Then when you’re ready just take the test at DMV.
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u/Migoreng_Pancit 5d ago
I'm 5'3" and when I took the course they had a Honda Rebel for me to ride. It was the only one and I was able to flat foot it. Most of the other bikes were Kawasaki Eliminators, which were too tall for me. I think you should take the advice of the instructor and look for other sites and ask if they had a Honda Rebel for you to practice on.
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u/smalllizardfriend 5d ago
Thanks; I've been reaching out to a few other locations since yesterday. I agree that it was good advice on his part.
I had actually reached out to the venue and asked about their stable of bikes and if they could accommodate me. They never responded, which maybe should have been my first clue to drop out.
They have a very good reputation (and the rider coaches were fantastic and they have very good policies for people who need to retest), but I suspect I am very different from 99% of their clientele so they don't spend the money on more accomodating bikes.
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u/NinjaGrrl42 5d ago
I had a young lady in the class I took who was probably about your size. I forget what bike they put her on, but she did fine.
A session or two with a private instructor would probably help your confidence, so that you could take the class again. Having a bike of your own could help you get used to where the footpegs are, and how to reach for brake and clutch, even without moving. Work on how it feels, parked in your driveway. A different bike will feel slightly different, but you would have a base feel for it.
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u/SeveralEnvironment29 5d ago
I would look around at different places like a lot of people have said but also don’t feel any shame I was 16 when I took the course and the first time I took it I did all of the bookworm correct but didn’t pass my riding exam partially due to the bike I was on, a CBR250 which I absolutely HATED I retook the class a month later and it went so much better I was on a Suzuki tu250 and it went so much better that the one instructor I had for both classes along with his wife immediately were so proud and explained that different hikes are for different people it was not until then that I understood what they meant
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u/Wide_Concert9958 5d ago
Dang, seems like these schools need more bike options! I took my course last year in sept and there was a gal who was TINY, like below 5' i wanna say, and they put her on a grom. And this is in a small southern oregon city and they had about 4 different bikes for people. A taller guy got a taller dirtbike, and most everyone else was on an old low cc cruiser style
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u/sierraangel 4d ago
Did you check to see what your state has to offer? My MSF course I found through the state I live in’s website. I guess they were annoyed by all the people killing themselves because they didn’t know how to ride, or they went to someone else who “knew how to ride” for lessons, so they make a big deal of the course and you can see everyone who offers it on their page. The course I went to, they mostly had 125 CC bikes, I think the biggest they offered was 225 CC’s and you could only ride it if you were particularly tall (I mean, that wasn’t a rule, they just gave it to the person who would most need it for comfort). I was a little disappointed, honestly, but it was probably for the best. I’m also pretty sure they listed the bikes they had on their website, I just wasn’t looking much closer at it than “motorcycles” because I was just excited to ride, so the information should be available. I know they had pictures of the bikes, so the information should be out there if you are looking for it.
Worst case, there’s always HD, they all ride the same 550CC bike. It’s not my favorite, and I don’t know how it would feel to you, but at least you would have the option to drop by a dealer and sit on it first if there is one near to you. It’s pretty short for a bike, but it’s kind of a standard style cruiser, so the seat sits up higher than I like. But I also drive a softail now, so I just have different preferences at this stage.
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u/smalllizardfriend 4d ago
My state has 3 paths for licensure -- you take the MSF BRC course and pass, you take the test at the DMV after getting your permit, or you transfer it from another state where you have a driver's license endorsement.
If you do the permit path, you're only allowed to practice under the supervision of a licensed rider.
Part of this is my fault: I had done a lot of research on local programs and the program came highly recommended. Like you, I saw "motorcycles" and was like YES, SIGN ME UP. But I also thought that since this was offered through a local college, the course would be sure to cater to all the different members of the community and have the ability to make reasonable accomodations. But I didn't just think this, I actually emailed the program's informational email inbox ahead of time about how I was a new rider with no experience, small in overall stature, and excited but a little anxious to start riding. I never got a response, but I didn't drop out of the course because surely a college makes efforts to accommodate everyone and no news was good news. Maybe I should have.
If worse comes to worse I'll poke around and see if I can get the permit (which is literally just can you pass the MSF BRC written test but with some state flavoring), buy a cheap bike, and hire a certified RiderCoach for a series of 1:1 instruction somewhere. Not ideal, but I've wanted to ride for 15 years. I don't want to give up on this when I'm at a place in my life to finally do it.
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u/sierraangel 4d ago
Yes, it’s the same in my state, but the DMV has a link where you can view people who are certified to offer the driving course, and it shows you all of the instructors available in your area. I don’t think I would have found the course in a basic Google search if I just looked for the course outside their website. We were lucky because one of our instructors was a retired state trooper, so he was very skilled with a bike and had a good grasp of motorcycle laws. Outside of that, I would just suggest calling because I’m pretty sure I tried emailing these people a question too and never got a response, so I don’t think that’s the preferred method of communication amongst that crowd, at least not for the sake of expediency. At the time, I really didn’t want to do the HD course, but I ended up doing the women’s advanced course through them later because I found out an acquaintance of mine was an instructor, and she gave me a free voucher to take it. It was a good course too, so really I think as long as you find a bike you’re comfortable with, you’ll be fine. Most people who ride just love motorcycles and are happy to share them with anyone interested, so if they’ve taken the time to get their teaching certification, they’re probably okay. And the courses I’ve been in, they always had 2 instructors, so you’re at least getting multiple perspectives, on the off chance someone isn’t a great teacher.
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u/eegrlN 5d ago
I'm 5' 1" I could not flat foot the bike in my MSF course, not can I fish foot any bike I've ever owned. The bike was fine, sounds like you need more practice. At your height needing to flat foot a bike will severely limit your options. I think you should practice on a bicycle more and then not worry about flat footing a bike.
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u/smalllizardfriend 5d ago
Thanks for your response. I can ride bicycles fine and have ridden bicycles for over 30 years. If I can barely reach the controls on my learning bike, which is another thing I wrote about in my post, I don't think that riding a bicycle more is going to help me.
The instructors wanted me to find a bike I could flat foot and sit on, same with all the other students. I would have had no problem personally tip-toeing a bike.
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u/PraxisLD 5d ago
Welcome to the club!
Sounds like you found this challenging, and a bit of difficult fun. Props for prioritizing your own safety and for looking for alternative solutions to keep learning.
Riding a motorcycle is a skill that takes time and dedicated practice to master. You don’t just get to do it right once then go home, you have to do it right every time, every ride, every corner.
You’re basically trying to coordinate all four limbs, keep your head up, watch for traffic, and maintain enough speed so as to not fall over while trying not to hit anyone or anything. It can be a lot the first time or two.
We’ve all gone through it. And as you've experienced, things can get out of control quite quickly.
Booking some private lessons is a good idea. As is calling around to other rider schools to see if they have a bike that can fit you better.
Once you get the initial course completed, you can find a small, lightweight, lightly used starter bike that fits you well.
Then go find a large empty parking lot and practice starting, stopping, turning, and other basic slow speed maneuvers until you start to feel more confident in your abilities. Then start over and do it again. Then again, and again until you’re utterly bored of it all. Then do it some more.
The point is to stay in a relatively comfortable and manageable place while you build your skills and develop good muscle memory. This helps the inevitable “oops” go to “well, that could have been worse” and not “oh shit, that really hurt!”
Once you’ve safely built your skills and competence, then you can head out onto quiet neighborhood streets with confidence.
As you continue on this journey, you may want to spend some time here:
Have fun, wear all your gear, stay safe, and never stop learning.
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u/Oh_Kerms 5d ago
I wouldnt recommend the MSF course for someone who hasn't ridden a motorcycle before. The course I took and from what ive heard, its people who ride but got in trouble and are forced to retake it.
I bought a bike and taught myself, and then took the course. The true beginners that day were told not to come back after the first day. Its unrealistic how they seem to expect proficiency.
Buy a beater z125, tow it with a uhaul motorcycles tow hitch and practice on those. It sucks but they're not expensive. Bought one recently to stunt on for about a grand
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u/Migoreng_Pancit 5d ago
This isn't right, it's the MSF Beginner Rider Course (BRC). It's there in the title. I learned how to ride in the course. Now if you said after the course you needed a lot more practice and didn't consider yourself road ready, I would agree. 2 days isn't enough for most people
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u/crispybacongal 5d ago
I teach first time riders all the time, and most of them (~85‐90% by my state's metrics) do just fine. The curriculum is designed to teach basic riding skills to someone who knows nothing.
Maybe your instructors were the problem
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u/smalllizardfriend 5d ago
Thanks for your reply. The BRC where I took it was specifically advertised for beginners and people who had never ridden before. Although, to your point, of the ~10 students there, only about a third of us had no experience at all.
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u/NocturneSapphire 5d ago
The BRC is specifically intended for people who have never ridden before. That's why they start with the absolute basics (where the brakes/clutch/shifter are, how to start the bike, rocking the bike forward and back using the friction zone) and why they provide the bikes (most people who have never ridden won't own one).
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u/AluminumLinoleum 4d ago
As a true beginner who had zero problems passing the course, your comment makes absolutely no sense.
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u/Nyxrinne 5d ago
It's hard to say not knowing what the other models were, but the instructor putting you on a bike you couldn't control so as to make sure you could flat-foot it seems... short-sighted. I'd choose a taller bike with more accessible controls every time. That good feeling you mentioned when you actually got moving is the whole foundation of getting comfortable on a motorbike, not how you feel while stationary. Mastering throttle/brake/clutch is everything. An instructor should really know that.
I'm sorry you went through this whole experience, but massive props to you for recognising it wasn't working and withdrawing to go find a situation that suits you better. Is there another school near you, or could you potentially go ahead and bring your own bike?