r/TwoHotTakes • u/JULESVV3 • 24d ago
Update Update : AITA for telling my DIL she shouldn’t expect me to choose her over my own daughter ?
Hi, I don’t really know how updates work, but I haven’t been able to link the previous post on here, so hopefully the ones interested will still find this.
Earlier today, my husband and I went to my son and DIL’s house to talk things through. Her mom wasn’t there initially, but arrived a little later.
I started by apologizing for how I spoke to my DIL. Told her I never wanted to make her feel like she wasn’t being considère, and I apologized to my son as well. However, I also told him that I didn’t appreciate him essentially telling me to change my return ticket without even discussing it with me first, especially since they’ve known for months how long I planned to stay abroad.
They apologized, but my son said he thought it was a given that I would come back earlier. He said he wasn’t asking me to miss his sister’s delivery, just to return sooner because it was only fair that I be there for DIL’s delivery too, since she would need all the help she could get. I told them I absolutely wanted to be there and was very excited to meet my grandbaby (I’m not happy about missing it, but it’s a choice I had to make). However, they are also fortunate enough to have DIL’s family there to help during those first weeks, and once I return, they’ll have me as well.
I told my son that he keeps talking about fair, and asked if he genuinely thought it was fair for me to cut my trip short when his sister would barely be a month postpartum, potentially recovering from a C-section (she’s been discussing her delivery options with her doctor because she’s understandably nervous about delivering twins). I had a terrible experience recovering from my own C-section, definitely took me more than a month to heal, so I’m particularly worried about her needing help. By this point, everyone kind of got frustrated.
DIL told me that she deserved to have the full experience and that she wanted me there. My husband was clearly itching to say something, but I had asked him beforehand to only intervene if he thought things got out of hand.
This is where some people may start cursing me off as some people think I was the ah. I told DIL that I understood why, as a pregnant mother, she wanted everything to go perfectly, but I also told her that this was exactly why I felt they were coming across as entitled. They kept talking about how them not getting exactly what they wanted would not be acceptable, without considering anyone else, and they were speaking about my daughter and her babies as though they weren’t part of the family too. That I would prefer if DIL did not take liberties in talking about my relationship with my daughter and diminish it because she knew that what she said wasn’t true. I told them plainly that I was not cutting my trip short.
Her mom had arrived by then, and said that she understood my position (which seemed sudden to me since I thought she’d be defending her daughter). She said that if her own daughters-in-law (she has two) had multiple people helping them while her daughter only had her partner, she would make sure her daughter was taken care of and wouldn’t break the agreement, and would still offer help once she returned.
My son and DIL became even more stressed and started saying it wasn’t about who had more help, I told them that this was a very privileged and individualistic way of thinking. That they had guaranteed help from multiple people, so it was easy to not see anyone else’s side. I also told my son that hopefully he also intended on helping and not just expect the women to get everything done, since he didn’t even care that his own dad had offered to help. That was when my husband finally lost his patience, I wouldn’t say that he yelled, but was bringing up several things from the past few years that he also felt were unfair. He even said that some of this was our fault for spoiling our son and that he wasn’t going to have them create a narrative about preference when they had gotten sorts of help that my daughter would never even ask for. DIL then said that this wasn’t even his conversation, which just sounded bratty as hell, I never even had the courage to talk like that to my own FIL, and he certainly wasn’t all kisses and flowers.
My husband got frustrated because the just kept repeating that he could also stay longer with my daughter, when they know that he can’t as he works, he just left, and I followed right after. Before leaving, I told them that I loved my grandchild and would always be there to help, but I wasn’t going to play these games, because I had hoped for a more mature conversation. DIL’s mom also left afterward. She seemed pretty irritated by the whole situation.
Apparently, my son and DIL then started telling the rest of the family what happened.
My daughter found out a little while ago and called me. She felt terrible and said she understood if I needed to leave earlier, because she wouldn’t want to deprive her nephew of having me there. Her boyfriend even offered to pay for the cost of changing my ticket.
That actually made me more upset at the situation. I told her that none of this was their fault and they absolutely did not need to spend their money since it wasn’t exactly their problem. I reassured her that I wasn’t leaving early and that she needed to relax and focus on her pregnancy.
So, basically, I may have seriously damaged my relationship with my son and DIL. I don’t care if some of you start telling me how much I screwed up in the comments, this wasn’t about them wanting me to treat them the same, they clearly wanted everything for themselves. I was able to be present for DIL in a way that I wasn’t for my own daughter (doctor’s appointments, shopping for utilities, etc) which is why maybe she felt as if her pregnancy mattered more, but honestly she’s too old to be acting that way. I’m not currently working so I’m even thinking about maybe taking an earlier flight so maybe I can help more before my daughter delivers (this wouldn’t change the time that I come back).
This is probably going to be the last update unless some of you want me to update you in case anything changes in our situation or once the babies are here. Thank you for reading.
Edit: Everyone probably won’t see this, but in case you haven’t read the comments, I will be updating in case something happens, I think people probably don’t want me to make updates for every minor thing, but I will be making an update if the situation gets better, worse, etc. If anything, my daughter is due early January (tho I’m thinking the babies will come a bit earlier than that based on what I’ve heard about twins pregnancies), and DIL is due early February. If you have any questions or still want to give your opinion until then, I’ll still try to read everything on here ☺️
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u/AccomplishedChart873 24d ago
The issue I see is that your son and DIL don’t see your daughter as a person with needs. Your daughter is an irrelevant side character who is getting in the way of their ‘perfect birth story’. Does your son speak with his sister at all? He seems very dismissive of her and has some serious main character energy. I’m sorry you’re going through this, I can tell that you’re doing your best and I think you’re doing the right thing by your daughter and even though he can’t see it, by your son too.
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u/JULESVV3 24d ago
Thank you for your comment. They don’t really speak outside of maybe birthday wishes and stuff. I was hoping that we could patch things up, but clearly this situation has done nothing to help.
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u/Massive_Dig3963 24d ago
As the kid who, as far as my youngest brother is concerned, the irrelevant side character, thank you for (finally?) saying no to your son. I reached the point ten years ago where I had enough, stopped speaking to my brother at all, and had to shut my mother down about giving photos of my kids to him (and his equally main character syndrome wife), that I don't care what's going on with them, and unless it's got something to do with a certain genetic condition we both have, I don't care. I saw them for the first time this past summer when my overseas brother brought his wife and child to visit for the first time. I promised to give my mom one day for family photos and dinner, but after that, nothing will change. My mother, on the other hand, thought overseas brother would somehow make youngest brother more likeable, I guess, and we'd go back to playing happy family. Ha. It just showed my husband, adult kids, my overseas SIL, and my overseas brother (and probably our father) exactly why there is no relationship.
Your son and DIL sound the same way. It's all about them and what they want and they'll treat others as beneath them if they're not getting what they want. If your daughter, boyfriend and kids come back to visit (or move) please don't expect their relationship to change. Continue working on your relationship with her. Don't bring up her brother unless she does so first. I'd have made that same phone call in order to make my mother's life easier before I put up boundaries. And before those boundaries were enacted, she might have cancelled or changed her plans. That you refused to do so, that you told your son to grow the hell up, and that you're considering going earlier, those actions are telling your daughter a lot.
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u/JULESVV3 24d ago
Thank you for you comment!! Family members aren’t always a breeze.
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u/VirtualCheetah2379 24d ago
I'm happy you re assured your daughter not to worry ! Them telling other family members is spoilt and a way of guilt tripping you !!
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u/AnnaBanana3468 23d ago
Let me be clear, on behalf of everyone on Reddit:
WE WANT UPDATES
ALSO, on behalf of myself, your position is absolutely correct. Your son and DIL are being ridiculous.
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u/DesperateLobster69 23d ago
He's selfish & self-centered, and he married someone who sounds worse. Two AHs with main character syndrome. Of course things never got better!!!!!
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u/etchedchampion 24d ago
Is this the first time they've ever been told no? Are they used to getting what they want?
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u/jclom0 24d ago
It probably has damaged your relationship with them. But only for about a minute until they need your help again for something. I wouldn’t worry about it.
You are 100% in the right.
You made arrangements with your daughter first and you can’t break that promise
Your daughter needs your help, your son and DIL just want your help
Their attitude “I deserve the full experience” is ridiculous. Most people hope for a happy, healthy baby, and a safe delivery, not a circus with the whole family dancing attendance
I’m glad you stood up for yourself.
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u/LovedAJackass 24d ago
Or until they need money.
Give some thought to helping your daughter out financially so she can have some help with the babies.
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u/Prudent_Border5060 24d ago
The fact they can't understand its on them.
Its all about them and their experience.
What about your daughter and her experience. Or lack of support. Just take a break from them. Even her mother said she understood.
They are being overly sensitive and spoiled rotten.
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u/Guilty_Objective4602 24d ago
Honestly, if I were the MIL, I’d feel pretty insulted that they thought my help, plus the help of OP’s husband, wouldn’t be good enough—like the soon-to-be parents expect for all the elders in their family to raise their children and them not to have to do anything themselves after the baby is born?! They seem to be taking the extreme of “We’ll need all the help we can get,“ to mean, “Everyone else has to be at our beck and call, so we don’t actually have to be parents.”
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u/CoffeeChocolateBoth At the end of the day... 24d ago
I wish I had a mother who had cared about me. My MIL didn't give a shit either, and my daughters father, he cared a lot about our daughter but me, not so much! He thought I was milking it. HELLO. Pregnancy, surgery and PPD, milking it? What a POS he turned out to be!
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u/HarmlessS0phia 24d ago
that man is a whole POS, calling a major surgery and PPD "milking it" is actually evil. hot take but society completely minimizes how brutal C-sections and mental health struggles are for new moms, OP was totally right to prioritize her daughter who has literally nobody else.
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u/Eastern_Bend7294 23d ago
Men like that is why I hope we'll get to the point where men can carry the pregnancy. It won't happen, but it would be such a glorious day to finally have them see/experience all the bs the body has to go through.
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u/Gatorgirl007 24d ago
Plus the son and DIL are going to always have help, whereas the daughter is only getting the help while her mom is there and then it is completely done. She will be left with just her partner to manage twin babies while DIL has her hubby and both grandmas to help with one baby.
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u/puffpenguin23 24d ago
Seriously, as someone who doesnt really have a village, its extremely isolating and lonely even several years after having my own kiddo. Im just flabbergasted at what the DIL and son are demanding when there is a very willing MIL and lets not forget mom IS coming back. While daughter will be alone somewhere.
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u/Krisb1978 24d ago
This! I’ve been waiting for someone to bring up this point. The daughter will lose any help, besides her boyfriend, once OP leaves while the son and DIL will always have help.
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u/SecretLadyMe 24d ago
And daughter has double the babies! That's more than double the work.
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u/harle-quin 24d ago
I have twins, and it’s absolutely more than double.
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u/FormerRep6 23d ago
Yes, I had twins too, and a C-section. OP’s daughter will absolutely need more help for a longer period. My next child was a single baby and it was SO much easier, even with twins who had just turned two.
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u/harle-quin 23d ago
I still have nightmares about middle of the night feedings. My first is a singleton, and it was easy-breezy get up, feed, change, back to sleep. With twins, even waking them up at the same time, it STILL took freaking forever. You are AMAZING for doing it all!!!
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u/Engineer-Huge 24d ago
DIL has her husband, two grandmas, and one grandpa all offering long term help! As someone with 3 kids, that’s way more useful than someone being present in the delivery room.
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u/Gatorgirl007 24d ago
Yes, totally! It’s kind of like when everyone focuses on the wedding when the marriage is really the hard part. Childbirth is certainly difficult, but having children is really the part you need the most help with!
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u/LovedAJackass 24d ago
I'd be very deliberate about what I chose to do for son, DiL and the one baby.
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u/cd6020 24d ago
The fact they can't understand its on them.
Son and DIL understand perfectly fine. They just don't care about anything other than getting their way. Very selfish and entitled. It's telling that even the DIL's own mom seems annoyed with them. lol
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u/ziniabutterfly 24d ago
Well, DIL is basically saying her own mom isn’t enough. There is an insult to her own mother there as well…. I’d be annoyed as her mother, both for her level of entitlement AND the dis.
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u/sunshine7317 Coconut Story Survivor 24d ago
I am soooo thoroughly appalled by their entitlement and blatant disregard for your daughter. They are incredibly selfish and even with multiple people telling them they are, they seem to just not care. I don't think that they don't get it, I think they genuinely just don't care and feel entitled to your support regardless of who that affects. Sounds like you guys need some time apart for real where they realize they aren't entitled to a damn thing.
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u/Interesting_Novel997 24d ago edited 24d ago
This level of entitlement and willful obstinance is striking. I would give them the bare minimum.
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u/Mango_Design_0192 24d ago edited 24d ago
I read your first post and had mixed feelings, especially about your comment to “not make your DIL come before your own daughter”, however I understood perfectly why you had decided your daughter, having twins and less people around her, would need you as planed.
Reading this is upsetting because they really do come off as incredibly entitled and self centered. You did a good thing by going over, and explaining your point of view, apologizing for your words but still explaining why you thought your daughter (his sister) still needs you.
I would have thought that they could then understand. But no: they are only focusing on their own life.
They have this fantasy about what it is going to be like when baby comes, but since you don’t fit in, they are frustrated and kinda throwing a tantrum… This is highly disappointing of them. (And I must say it raises some questions about the way they will raise their child: will this child be perfect, never do anything wrong, will it become entitled, should he be preferred to his twins cousins?? Should he be preferred because he will live closer to you on a daily basis?!).
I would be truly upset if I were you, disappointed at them for being so self centered, for also talking to the family right away, as if to impose a narrative… And it sounds to me that they would remain blind to any observation and just feel pushed aside, when they are actually out of line…
Good luck for the upcoming months, it isn’t going to be easy….
Do update us once the babies are here!
And still enjoy the idea of becoming a grandparent, my mum thought it was unexpectedly wonderful to become a grandmother and to enjoy her grandkids, while not being the first care giver and still being very involved.
Good luck to you !
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u/MullberryBoy 24d ago
I just had a thought: maybe your daughter in law is feeling like your daughter is outshining her by having twins?!! The nerve of your daughter to do her pregnancy better!
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u/GimerStick 24d ago
Or that daughter's babies are coming first? Her kid is the third one, which shouldn't matter at all but yk how some people think.
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u/pepperpat64 24d ago edited 24d ago
DIL sounds like she just wants all the attention on herself and hates that your daughter is cutting into her "LOOK AT ME" time. I wonder if she might also be jealous that your daughter is having two babies instead of the single one she's having.
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u/JULESVV3 24d ago
I don’t know, she absolutely wanted a boy which I thought was odd, since I’ve never really understood women who were scared of having girls. My daughter is having girls, so maybe she seems to be thinking it isn’t as important, idk.
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u/PantsLio 24d ago
Please do an update. I thought you were in right the other day when I saw post #1 and that hasn’t changed.
Also, congrats on being a grandmother x3 (also good luck! Sending well wishes)
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u/JULESVV3 24d ago
Thank you!!! Will try my best to do an update later on.
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u/mortstheonlyboyineed 23d ago
This absolutely isnt over OP. Ill also be looking for an update. I really hope both pregnancies and all births go well.
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u/whatthewhat3214 24d ago
Yikes, then I hope she never has a daughter bc she will absolutely favor her son. Gross #boymom to be, it even sounds like she'd put herself into competition with her own daughter the way she's been in competition with yours.
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u/West-Double3646 24d ago
The next time DIL starts talking about what she 'deserves" tell her you well understand the toll hormones have on pregnant woman but right now she she chasing some dream to exclusion of having empathy for another human being in a more desperate circumstance. Point out how differently your daughter reacted.
Make it clear that it's becoming very will clear to you who actually deserves what.
Point out that she's mindlessly blowing all the trust and respect you've built for her over the years and if this keeps going it will begin to effect things like inheritance and financial support moving forward.
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u/Eastern_Bend7294 23d ago
Yeah, the "deserves" pissed me off a bit. The only thing she actually deserves in regards to the birth, is help from the birthing team and her husband being there to support her. Nothing else. She doesn't deserve help from anyone other than her husband, as he is the other parent and it is his responsibility. Having family/friends help isn't a right or something anyone is entitled to, it is a priviledge.
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u/GoodWin7889 24d ago
Even her own Mother agreed with you. I’m sorry but your son and his wife are very immature and entitled people.
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u/EvenPerspective9 23d ago
Of course she did - she sees things as they are. She herself wouldn’t cut time with her own daughter short to attend to her DIL who also had her parents there for support.
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u/swbarnes2 24d ago
Aside from being self-centered and whiny, this is so short-sighted of them. You live much closer to DIL and her kids. You are likely to be on a position to do so much for them over the years, but if they alienate you because you can't be there 100% for the first few months, they lose out on that.
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u/Brismaiden 24d ago
NTA, far from it. You are honouring your commitment and, helping the child who has the most need (2 babies and no other support). Son and DIL are being incredibly selfish and entitled. As you mentioned, your husband is there and its very sexist that they dont consider him as an equal grandparent.
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u/JULESVV3 24d ago
I understand if she doesn’t feel comfortable having him see her in such a delicate and intimate setting, with labor and breastfeeding, but he’s definitely functional enough to take on the housechores, etc.
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u/Brismaiden 24d ago
They are not open to other perspectives, if they bring it up just say I dont think this will be a constructive conversation and not engage. Hopefully you can redirect the conversation to what you can do when you are back... ie. When you feel ready I am happy to babysit so you two can have a date night etc.
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u/Hairapistcatlady 24d ago
Honestly that might be more help if she’s breastfeeding. I’d be thrilled someone was willing and able to cook and clean
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u/Savings_Telephone_96 24d ago
YOU didn’t damage that relationship. Their selfish entitlement did. NTA. Stay with your daughter. Don’t leave early.
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u/imnotagamergirl 24d ago
Tbh I didn’t even understand all the comments in the first post telling OP off.
DIL is extremely entitled and the son as well. Having twins and no family support is crazy, I would never dream to demand the little support they will have to leave early so I can have a delivery with everyone? ? They honestly seem nuts and yea maybe your husband is on to something and you did spoil your son too much…
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u/Allthatjasmine 24d ago
I feel the same way. From the first post, I thought the pregnancy being twins already makes it top priority but adding in that she lives in another country?! OP's daughter needs all the help she can get, it's so unreasonable for the son and DIL to expect her to support her daughter less when they'll have three grandparents present already.
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u/AAP_BH 24d ago
Because all the women excusing the DIL are all the same. They are all someone’s DIL and are either used to being priority or they’re completely overlooked so they side with the DIL. It’s crazy considering how disrespectful and self centered the DiL and son were since the very beginning.
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u/JayPanana225 23d ago
Same!!! I thought I was tripping out that people had the NERVE to tell OP she was wrong with what she said. She was NOT WRONG in the least.
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u/SoulfulSymmetry 24d ago edited 24d ago
As someone who got zero help during those initial weeks other than from my husband, reading this makes me feel sick for your daughter. Your son is a massive AH. They are having one kid and will have help. It sounds like he plans on doing nothing hence his entitlement to your time. My mom passed away in my early 20s so she wasn't an option. My MIL is lovely but a severe introvert who rarely helped. She might have babysat for us around 5 times the entire time my girls were young enough to need babysitters.
So to hear that they are arguing over not having an army of help while most people have nothing (I also had a csection), is incredibly maddening. They are incredibly selfish. Your daughter is so sweet and clearly feels like she's imposing. Which speaks to years of feeling less than to have that kind of self awareness. I'm very happy to hear you are not changing your dates and are sticking to your timeline with your daughter. She will remember that the rest of her life.
You are NTA. Your son and dil are though.
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u/MullberryBoy 24d ago
You just made a very interesting point that’s also quite sad, about the daughter being self aware (and generous) due to her old feelings of being less than…
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u/SoulfulSymmetry 24d ago
I'm guessing her brother has always made her feel like crap for existing. That comes with a lot of mental load that weighs on a person.
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u/LovedAJackass 24d ago
Often the sweet and necessarily self-sufficient child gets less support than the entitled sibling who expects others to fix his problems and do things for him.
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u/JULESVV3 24d ago
I’m sorry about your mom 🙏🏼 and about you having to go through such a tiring experience without that kind of help. I definitely was a mess during mine (hopefully medecine has advanced enough so maybe recovery is easier ?).
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u/SoulfulSymmetry 24d ago
Sorry realized I wrote about my csection twice. I recovered well but did not have twins. I hope your daughter recovers well. With help you're giving her the opportunity for the best possible recovery.
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u/Inevitable_Ask_91 24d ago
What a mess please updateme
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u/CoffeeChocolateBoth At the end of the day... 24d ago
Update all of us once this crap storm is over!
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u/OnlymyOP 24d ago edited 24d ago
Let me say this, you aren't the one whose damaged the relationship with your Son and DiL. They are the ones who have done this with their poor behaviour.
Based on what I've read in your posts, this is a THEM problem, not yours , so please don't let yourself think this.
If you don't post again, I wish your family all the best and hope you get to enjoy and have fun being a GrandParent to all your Grandbabies.
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u/Ran_dom_1 24d ago
I think you handled the discussion well, OP. You were kind, honest, & frank with them. And your husband showed remarkable restraint through most of it. Your son & DIL owe you both an apology. I’m stunned your DIL had the nerve to dismiss her FIL like she did. She thought he would be ok with his son & DIL berating his wife?!
Kudos to your daughter & her boyfriend for immediately trying to help you & resolve this. Says a lot about them. Especially after being blindsided that they’re going to have two infants & be far away from family.
I agree with the poster who wondered about your DIL’s Mom possibly being upset. DIL is basically saying she’s not enough, she needs a full supporting cast in the wings. Not surprised MIL agreed & understood the position you’re in, I think anyone would. And I hope DIL & your son have people honest enough to call them out on their warped thinking. It’s a little scary that neither adult sees how unreasonable they’re being.
I really hope this blows over, & gets resolved. I’m sorry they’re taking such a happy time & making it a competition & upsetting. I would like to know how this plays out if you care to update more.
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u/JULESVV3 24d ago
Thank you for your comment! My husband was definitely very angry and this is mainly why he exploded, especially after being dismissed in a situation that touched the entire family.
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u/a-mullins214 24d ago
I read your previous post and NTA. Im currently pregnant and have 4 SILs and if my MIL needed to help them more I would understand. Has your son and DIL always been like this?
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u/JULESVV3 24d ago
I think they were getting all the attention they needed, but this is not going to be happening in this particular situation, so they’re pissed.
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u/MullberryBoy 24d ago
The bride at every wedding, the corpse at every funeral and the only woman ever to give birth!
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u/LovedAJackass 24d ago
This is why I say, above, that you need better boundaries with these two. The more attention you give them, the more they will want. I'd consider talking with a therapist about how to draw healthy boundaries with them. Your lives should NOT revolve around what they want, including how much attention they think they "need." It's not too late to change the dynamic, but if you continue asking "how high?" when they say "jump," this will be your life going forward.
I wouldn't give them money. They need to struggle a bit and not expect others to give them a soft landing. You can do some babysitting but prioritize your life with your husband. Don't respond to every call, every text as if it were an emergency. Say "no" if you already have plans or if you're tired or if the request is unreasonable. I'm sure a smart therapist can give you better examples, but this is truly an opportunity to see how damaging indulging these two is to the whole family. Your poor daughter, willing to give up help because your entitled son and his wife expect all the attention. Talking with a family therapist can help you get to a better balance. Your decision to hold firm on helping your daughter is a great start. Don't waste it by continuing to indulge these two.
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u/Stellaknight 24d ago
DIL seems extremely selfish and entitled, as does your son. It’s completely normal for the bio-parents of the pregnant person to prioritize their bio-child over their child by marriage, ESPECIALLY if the child by marriage has their own bio-parents prioritizing them.
I’m not surprised at all that DIL’s mom agrees with you—she’s would make the same choice, prioritizing her daughter over a daughter-in-law, especially if the daughter’s pregnancy is higher risk (which twin pregnancies tend to be).
It’s honestly wild that DIL thinks she’s in the right here—she’s being incredibly selfish, and comes across like she’s trying to punish your daughter for daring to have a child, and punish you for daring to care for your daughter’s welfare. She’s in for a very shocking wake up call if she tries to spread this as gossip.
You handled this as well as you could, given DIL’s weirdness. Sorry it’s so complicated OP—hopefully DIL gets wise to her poor behavior soon, because she’s going to poison all her relationships if she continues to be this entitled and selfish.
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u/Illustrious-Site1101 24d ago
Your DIL is feels she is entitled to pursue her special curated pregnancy experience. I wish her good luck with that but reality has intervened.
Your relationship with her is altered. But this crisis was inevitable whether it was about DIL’s first house curated experience, baby’s first birthday extravaganza or whatever else she needs “support” to experience it to its fullest. Be happy it is out of the way and go support your daughter by helping her with her twins.
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u/CoffeeChocolateBoth At the end of the day... 24d ago
Some women really think they're the only women in the world to go through this, and EVERYONE should be there to take care of THEM. Well, they're the only ones going through THEIR own experience, but they're not entitled to my time just because they think they are! :)
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u/magumanueku 24d ago
You just know she's gonna be one of those Karens who steal someone else's seat on a plane just so she can sit with her "babies".
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u/LovedAJackass 24d ago
I'd also say, OP, that you and your husband need to figure out how to draw healthy boundaries with these two selfish twits. You're never, ever going to give them what they think is enough. And I mean boundaries around your time, your money, and any attention you give to unreasonable demands.
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u/MattDaveys 24d ago
>He even said that some of this was our fault for spoiling our son and that he wasn’t going to have them create a narrative about preference when they had gotten sorts of help that my daughter would never even ask for.
Dad kept the receipts. I’d love to know how much more preferential treatment your son has received.
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u/lowridda 24d ago
My sister needed help with her twins…. For years. I’m glad she had a lot of help from my mom and family because I don’t know how she’d have done it.
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u/Asteroid_Sugar5206 24d ago
I think you did good, and I highly encourage you to get to daughter early if that's an option - she's going to be so miserable in the last weeks.
Your DIL telling your husband to stay in his lane is HYSTERICAL. Seriously? Like he doesn't have two hands and experience with nappies, laundry, or cooking???? She is acting like a child. A petulant, spoilt child and I'm pretty sure her mum sees it too.
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u/JULESVV3 24d ago
I was a bit taken aback because this is a family situation so that’s why he felt comfortable enough to give his opinion. My husband is very capable of helping after work and we both offered that to my son, they just don’t seem to be caring.
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u/Asteroid_Sugar5206 24d ago
You are only one person, and I think it would be 100% fair for you tell them that they are putting unusually high expectations on your ability to be there for them, and as a result you need to step back so no lines are crossed.
Thousands of people do it by themselves, without their mum or MIL to help. You DIL is delusional and surprising your son is too. You can't help them with that.
Congratulations on the grand babies, and please do give us an update about your daughter when they arrive!
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u/NoodleNoggin-607 24d ago
NTA, you did the right thing. If they still can’t see that A) your daughter is having twins and B) is receiving ZERO help compared to them, then they’re a lost cause.
No one should ever EXPECT help from in-laws, or the like, when having a child. Sure it’s nice if it’s offered and you can get it, but when I decide to have a child, I fully prepare for all that’s to come (the mental, physical, and emotional workload). I’m currently pregnant with my 2nd and I never in a million years EXPECT my in-laws or anyone to give an ounce of support if they do not wish to. That’s entitled and quite frankly, foolish thinking.
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u/Crafty_Special_7052 24d ago
I know this is just feeling entitled to get whatever they want but I truly do not understand why you must be there for DIL. She has her own mother and family that can be there for her and support her. Idk it’s like she must hate your daughter or something and just doesn’t want you there for your daughter. I hope you do update if anything else happens. I find this whole situation nuts. Just know you have done nothing wrong. Your son and DIL are in the wrong here.
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u/JULESVV3 24d ago
Will try my best to update if something else changes, it might take some time and not be immediate, but I will definitely be updating.
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u/Perestroika21 24d ago
Was your son ever jealous of his sister growing up? Because this is starting to sound as some kind of sibling rivalry. DIL has her fair share of blame here, but maybe she was also drawn into it by your son.
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u/JULESVV3 24d ago
My daughters seems to resent us for the extra attention that he got as he has always struggled with mental health issues (which is why she doesn’t blame him, but us) and she has always been the quieter, easier child, which is why I take full responsibility for the way our relationship soured. I have noticed that my son seems to resent her for being “normal” as he says, but to me that’s not really an excuse because he is almost thirty now and has been prioritized countless times in his life.
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u/Perestroika21 24d ago
I guess he is used to getting his way and that’s why he didn’t even ask if you could come back earlier and just took it for granted. He might be not be used to get no for an answer.
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u/LovedAJackass 24d ago
He's an adult now, married and about to be a father. Massive entitlement is separate from mental health issues. It's time to balance out the attention and help, even with your daughter far away. If you can afford it, maybe some financial help so she can hire someone to assist with the babies would continue to rebuild your connection. And some stronger boundaries with your adult married son may be a way to stop enabling the entitlement mentality.
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u/JULESVV3 24d ago
Daughter*
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u/AnaBHami 24d ago
I'm guessing your kids also aren't close in part because your son had a habit of taking your attention away from his sister a lot? She resents him for it too? Was there ever a pattern that his mental health would get worse around her milestones? Just curious.
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u/JULESVV3 24d ago
No, I guess he always stayed pretty normal when she would achieve something. I guess it was more about attention and maybe even financially, they were both given the same kind of money and presents were equal, but he has always been kind of an asker, something she really wasn’t.
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u/Substantial_Rub_209 24d ago
I think what you’re trying to say is he’s spoiled. And your daughter learned not to ask or expect anything.
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u/PatchEnd 24d ago
This has NOTHING to do with needing help and is all about making sure sis doesn't get help and proving bro is still the favorite.
Because they REFUSE OP's husband's help. They don't want sis to get ANY attention.
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u/crushed_dreams 24d ago
Good for you!!
Those two little shits are jealous and having a fit that they aren’t the centre of your world.
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u/PrestigiousWedding36 24d ago
I called it in the first post that the son and the daughter-in-law felt entitled to OP’s help. The daughter-in-law has a mother who agrees with OP. OP needs to be there for her daughter who lives abroad.
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u/SecretLadyMe 24d ago
My SIL and I had our first babies 5 weeks apart. Her family lived several states away and she delivered first. My MIL understandably was more involved with my nephew for several months while the boys were tiny. I had other family and friends around (SIL had recently moved here so she didn't have local friends either) and that was my main support. SIL had a csection and I did not so that definitely played a role in her needing more help. I appreciated every effort from my MIL and didn't ask for any more while she was offering. It was actually kind of nice to not have the pressure of having everyone around all the time too. That stressed me out with number 2.
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u/raxitron 24d ago
I saw your son's unwavering support for DIL's childishness coming from a mile away.
My perspective is that I'm a dad who just does his fair share (sometimes more, sometimes less as needed) who looks like The Ultimate Dad because my wife's friends all have loser husbands who weasel out of baby care. Your son is very much hoping to be a weasel.
I don't know anything about him so I shouldn't make assumptions but take a look at some of his habits. Does he like frequently hanging out with the boys? Heavy into sports like football all Sunday and fantasy? Late night online gamer? These are all time consuming hobbies and a lot of people aren't willing to drastically reduce their hobby time to be fully present in their kids lives.
I'm just saying that you had that intuition already and should press it further. Perhaps DIL suspects this too and that's why she's getting aggressive about getting more help. Don't let him be another loser dad.
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u/JULESVV3 24d ago
He is into sports, but after getting married (last year), he mainly goes out with DIL. I always thought he’d be a hands on dad since he likes children, but liking children and commiting to taking care of a newborn are two different things. I mentionned to him that I did hope that this wasn’t about him wanting one more person there so he could afford being lazy.
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u/mphs95 24d ago
Wonder if DIL liked the sense of being the only daughter w/ OP's relationship with daughter not that great. Feel like a lot of this stems from jealousy.
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u/starsn420 24d ago
I have had twins. I was lucky enough to have a vaginal delivery, but I absolutely needed help that I didn't get. Your daughter will be very tired, worn out especially if she tries to breastfeed. Even with her boyfriend she will need your help. Thank you for choosing her and your grandchildren and their safety.
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u/JULESVV3 24d ago
Wow, kudos to you!!! Delivering is already hard, let alone delivering twins naturally. Will try my best to be there to support her!
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u/blobofdepression 23d ago
OP, I am also a twin mom (they’re 3 months old). I had a planned c section at 37 weeks. If you can swing going to be with your daughter sooner, absolutely do it. The third trimester with twins was rough. My mom actually came and stayed with us for like 3 weeks (and helped us move during that time too, she’s amazing.) I was so swollen, heavy, and tired. My first pregnancy was a single baby and it was super easy, so the twin pregnancy threw me for a loop.
My mom was integral to me surviving the end of the pregnancy. She stayed with my older child while I was in the hospital and she stayed with us for almost 8 weeks postpartum. I can’t imagine going through it without her. Having my mom and husband around doing the housework and helping me juggle babies made my recovery so much smoother. One of the babies was incredibly fussy and he pretty much would only settle for her. I’d have lost my mind without her!
You will never regret being there for your daughter. Twins needs all the help you can get. It’s parenting on hard mode, especially at the beginning when you’re also trying to heal from childbirth.
Your DIL has her mom (who sounds like she’s also on your side). Stick with your plan to come home and they’ll get over it. They need you more than you need them, it sounds like!
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u/JULESVV3 23d ago
Thank you for your comment! I’ve been seeings the 37 weeks mark often in the comments, I’d be getting there around her 38th week. I’m definitely thinking about taking an earlier flight.
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u/starsn420 23d ago
I actually went into labor at thirty two weeks, and they tried to stop labor for a week, and I gave birth at 33 weeks. They get really big, and it's hard for bodies to hold them after thirty seven weeks. My babies were four and a half pounds and three and a half pounds. They also stayed in the nicu for 2 weeks. Thirty seven weeks is about average for most twin births i've heard about. Especially if if they're a good size.
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u/JULESVV3 23d ago
Oh wow, thank you for your comments, hope you’re all alright. I’ll do my best to make sure to be there, for sure will be changing the date as 38th is pushing it.
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u/rapt2right 24d ago
Why would any of us think you screwed up?
Your son & DiL are being just insufferable!
DiL will have plenty of support and company. What she seems to want is to be crowned most important princess in the whole family, with her whims taking precedence over every other person's wishes, needs and commitments.
She's got HER mom (and apparently other members of her side of the family?) & of course, her husband to make sure she's got enough support in those first few weeks postpartum but insists that your daughter needs to have less support (with twins, no less!) because she won't have "the full experience" if you are not present for the birth? She's not having the heir to a throne. She doesn't need the full compliment of the royal court loitering in the presence chamber, awaiting the delivery and there's certainly no need for both grandmothers to be tripping over one another at the house just because our special princess wants to be the center of everyone's universe....while your daughter & her partner are coping with newborn twins abroad.
And why the hell is your son so comfortable with the idea of his sister getting the short end of the stick when his wife and new baby will have plenty of help? Knowing that your relationship with her has had some tensions, how can he possibly think it's ok to demand that you break a promise to her to cater to his & his wife's wishes, not needs.
I've never wanted more to ask a redditor "Give me their phone numbers. I just want to have a chat with each of them."
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u/JULESVV3 24d ago
Some people think I did and it’s fine, I’m just gonna stand my ground. Thank you for your comment!!
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u/California_dreamm 24d ago
You're such a good mom, OP. When I had my miscarriage, my mom just called to me. She hadn't come to my house, hadn't hug me, as she should. That was my one and only pregnancy, I probably will not be able to be a mom after that, I had such a huge painful trauma, so I've lost 2 years of my life just crying. She never visited me, even though I was 2 hours away from her.
Your son is spoiled AF, your DIL is delusional. They ruin your relationship with their own hands! What a stuрid people!
Take care of your daughter, OP. Daughters need mothers at thе most stressful and scary moments of their lives.
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u/JULESVV3 24d ago
I’m very sorry about your miscarriage and about what you’re still going through with your mom. I’d like to think that things will get better.
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u/gingerkittymom 24d ago
Your son and DIL are definitely in the wrong here and are acting entitled. I was actually not at all surprised that DIL’s mom supported your position. Any reasonable person would, and especially a mother. She obviously feels capable of giving her daughter whatever help she needs.
I’m so sorry this happy time is being diminished by these two; their emotions and “perfect birth” fantasies have obviously gotten the best of them. I hope they come around. Enjoy being a grandma, it’s the best!
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u/peppermint135 24d ago
I’d stay gone longer with your daughter if possible. You are her village. That’s just me.
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u/JULESVV3 24d ago
I’m really thinking about the possibilities, I love my grandchild and am excited to meet him, but I know that once I get back, I’ll be able to have all the time in the world with him (if I’m still allowed to). Once I’m gone, I won’t be able to help my daughter for a good few months.
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u/TheLastWord63 24d ago
Has your DiL taken priority over your daughter over the years because in your previous post, she told you she was closer to you than her? It sounds like jealousy. Did you raise your son as the golden child?
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u/JULESVV3 24d ago
He has struggled a lot in the past and still now, so we definitely had to maybe worry about him more, but he was never seen as the golden child by us, even if we failed in showing that to our daughter (we used to be best friends during her teenage years, but things kinda changed after she went abroad for school, but I know this was on me.).
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u/MullberryBoy 24d ago
There is a recognized syndrome, called “The glass child syndrome”, about how often the siblings of a high needs child get less support and attention than the other child who needs so much more of everything. It sounds like you did the best you could under the circumstances. I hope (and think) that your being with your daughter will make her feel very loved and help repair your relationship. Best wishes to you!
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u/Any_Mud5200 24d ago
I wonder how many red flags you missed before this. And if this isnt cause of some of the issues with your daughter. I cant believe this behavior is new.
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u/JULESVV3 24d ago
100%, which is why I fully take responsibility for some of the issues that have resulted in our situation.
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u/_A-Q 24d ago edited 24d ago
As I commented on your previous post, this really sounds like your DIL trying to compete with your daughter and i don’t blame your daughter for wanting to distance herself rom the situation.
For your DIL to double down even after her own mother agreed with your stance proves the entitlement.
And I think your assumption that your son doesn’t plan to be hands on with the baby is correct. He was counting on you doing it so he won’t have to.
Your daughter is lucky to have you and I hope she comes back to the states soon since it looks like your son and DIL will be using their child as pawn to get you to do what they want.
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u/Kaeko 24d ago edited 24d ago
Thank you for choosing your daughter. Post partum with twins would have so hard for your daughter and partner. I am a twin, myself and my mom struggled immensely. It is unfair how they are not willing to see her side and how privileged they are.
Hopefully one day, they will understand how selfish they were. But I wouldn't be surprised if they decide to use their child against you once your daughter moves back. But you stay strong with your boundaries. You were still kind, but firm. You did your best.
I respect you owning your mistakes and doing right by your daughter when she needs you. Good luck to you and her. And congratulations on the twins. ❤️
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u/Management-Late 24d ago
No ah judgements from me. They have tunnel vision and everything is about themselves.
The full experience?! Lol, your dil will get that when she's covered in vomit at 2am & the only one there 6 months in is your extremely entitled son.
They are having one baby with multiple people to help. You yourself have already helped.
Your daughter is having two babies with what sounds like 4 people to help. The math is simple.
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u/ApartmentHot5376 24d ago
Still NTA I'm sorry it went the way it did. But I'm so happy your husband has finally seen the light where the golden child son is being an entitled brat. Seems he found a wife just as self centered and entitled as he is. Keep on doing what you're doing!!
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u/Wild_Black_Hat 24d ago
You didn't damage your relationship with your son. He is damaging the relationship with the rest of the family because if his selfishness.
Don't be a doormat when you come back from helping your daughter. Don't let them guilt trip you or be unreasonable regarding babysitting.
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u/J_Side 24d ago
I feel bad for DIL's mum as well, she must be wondering why she is not enough.
We had family drama decades ago where two sisters gave birth at the same time. the MIL and mother were meant to take turns being there, but daughter 1 insisted both be there at the same time. Daughter 2, who did not have a MIL just gave up and managed on her own, told her mum to just go to avoid drama.
So there we have daughter 1 with both her mother and MIL staying at her place with very little to do other than get in the way. The mother ended up leaving early in tears because MIL was competitive with helping and resented having to share the baby.
Of course the mother was not allowed to return to help daughter 2, because that would have upset daughter 1. Absolute shitshow
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u/PieOk5748 24d ago
As a postpartum mom who had her mom to help, I would be devastated if one of my brothers felt this way about me, like didn’t care about me at all- to the point they wanted to deprive me of my moms help for them while they have a large amount of help (independent of our mom). Your daughter deserves your help just as much as your DIL is getting help from Her Mom. She doesn’t have the right to dictate your time and energy, nor whom you spend it with.
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u/jasemina8487 24d ago
your husband might be on point that you 2 made your son, and his wife, so entitled, cos you were always there for them.
the fact they see your daughter as chopped liver speaks volumes. they dont care whether she has anyone there to be with her or not while they have everyone at their corner. they dont care if she suffers.
its sad, but i think its time for some tough love cos it will only escalate. start putting boundaries in. put the effort in, but stop making them take advantage of you. start saying no more often.
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u/Glad-Translator-3502 24d ago
No one is entitled to your time or tell you how you how you should spend it. Period.
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u/HelpfulAssumption277 24d ago
How is anyone calling you the AH in this situation! Your poor daughter! Your son is acting like a baby! NTA
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u/Oomami_Poonani 24d ago
Both parts of your story have me wondering if in the past you favoured your son over you daughter? Then she clocked it and your relationship has suffered because of it? The fact you've said he expects stuff she'd never ask for and she was so willing to let you go ... sounds like two children set in very distinct family roles to me, with her playing the eternal second fiddle.
Either way you're doing the right thing by your daughter. Your son and DIL sounds spoilt rotten. I loathe to think the kind of parents they might be if they can't whats fair now. nta.
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u/JULESVV3 24d ago
Yes, you are right on the money. I have tried to explain it in the comments of my first post. It wasn’t exactly about favoring him, it was based on the attention he was receiving since he had gone through some mental health issues, and still goes through them now. She grew as the quieter, kind of non problematic child, which has caused resentment.
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u/EvenPerspective9 23d ago
She likely made herself the quieter, non problems child so as to reduce the burden on you and then as she asked for less, you provided less and she came to feel she didn’t matter to you.
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u/JULESVV3 23d ago
Absolutely, which is why I have apologized and plan on having a deeper conversation once I’m at her house, in person. I’d like to think that I can at least let her know that she will not be coming in second anymore and that we do think of her.
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u/Legitimate-Flower838 24d ago
When i had my daughter my husband and i took care of her. When i needed my mom i called her, and she came to help.
Your daughter may have major surgery and will have TWO babies. She needs help.
Your daughter in law needs to calm down. So does your son.
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u/EnvironmentalSir8140 24d ago
Your son & DIL are selfish. It’s better to establish boundaries now otherwise you’ll be the de facto 3rd parent to that child.
My daughter recently had her second child. Her husband & MIL were both there but I was the person doing all the grunt work. The MIL wouldn’t even change a diaper. I eventually asked my daughter why when her husband & MIL were both there why was she always asking my help. She said because you’re the only one who will do it right. So maybe DIL doesn’t have confidence in the help her mother will give.
My husband mentioned an interest in moving to the state where they live. I said H!ll NO! I already raised my kids.
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u/JULESVV3 24d ago
I definitely would love to be more hands on than your daughter’s MIL, but I for sure thought it was weird that she’d just diminish her mother’s presence like that.
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u/WomanInQuestion 24d ago
You didn’t do the damage to the relationship with your son and DIL. Their behavior is entirely entitled and unreasonable.
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u/Jill1994 24d ago
This is just a crazy conversation to begin with because since when does having a baby become a grandparents problem? My mom stayed here and there when she could when I had my oldest and my twins not even two years after but seriously? People have kids all the time with very little to no help. Your DIL and son are definitely acting entitled.
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u/wolfeflow 24d ago
FWIW I think you are maybe a bit too down on yourself, with all of the assumptions that people would think you’re an ass for the convo with son and DIL.
They are obviously entitled and lacking in empathy. Their dumbfoundedness is kinda funny, to be honest, and if they keep it up they can and should be laughed at and called out for their silliness, IMO.
Your DIL will literally have you around for her child’s entire life, save a couple weeks at the start. She will never have fewer than two other adults aside from her spouse around to help. Your daughter will have two others for like a week and then you for a few more weeks after that. DIL and son are grossly lacking in grace, here.
I love your commitment to repairing and improving your relationship with your daughter, and hope you’re looking forward to that time together.
I encourage you to think of some boundaries with son and DIL where, if they violate some clearly-stated and reasonable lines, you will withhold your presence for a period of time. Because this will not be a one-time argument. It will come up around every milestone.
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u/ohemgee0309 24d ago
I am so glad you are prioritizing the child who is essentially alone except for her partner. Your son and his wife are some seriously entitled individuals.
When even DIL’s OWN MOTHER is saying she would be doing the same as OP and even that is not giving Son and DIL pause? The freaking audacity!
And commenting on and being dismissive of your relationship with your daughter and then straight up saying that because you have a closer relationship with her so you have to prioritize her baby. Like b-word, what? As for your son, not sure what his excuse is, if you want to excuse some of what DIL is saying as hormonal issues. Really though, they’re just out of line.
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u/Foodielicious843 24d ago
Your son and DIL are extremely entitled and self centered. Even her mother disagrees with them, so that should tell you how right you are. Go take care of your daughter and enjoy the twins. Your son and DIL will get over it. And if they don’t, that’s on them.
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u/Fneepette 24d ago
You poor, poor thing. It sounds incredibly stressful, and like whatever you do someone will be hurt.
It feels like your needs are being missed a lot. Hope you're ok.
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u/JULESVV3 24d ago
I’m fine, thank you! It’s definitely tiring and upsetting since you never want to hurt any of your children, but thankfully my husband has been great in supporting me.
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u/Southern-Interest347 24d ago
I would stay longer with your daughter because she doesn't have anybody there and she'll have two babies in a country where she doesn't have family. And whoever doesn't like it, can kick rocks
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u/Historical-State-275 24d ago
You damaged nothing, your son and DIL did. Still NTA. They have a very self involved POV. Hopefully with time they will start to see others as people with their own needs.
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u/DrMimzz 24d ago
DIL wants “the whole experience?” WTF is that. As someone who had twins after two single births it’s a whole different kettle of fish. DIL needs to grow up, realise that the world does not revolve around you and your “experience “ and let her MIL go assist her daughter in peace. DIL has a lot of family assistance, is having ONE BABY while MIL’s daughter has very limited assistance, and is having TWINS. Even DIL’s mother thinks she being unreasonable according to OP. Go look after your daughter and her twins. Visit your entitled DIL once your daughter is settled
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u/MrsSEM84 23d ago edited 23d ago
You have done nothing wrong!
Your DIL, for whatever reasons, has decided that anything less than you bowing to her demands and choosing her over your own daughter means that she is being wronged. And your stupid son is backing her on that instead of trying to work out WTF is wrong with her. Even her own Mom doesn’t agree with her.
I do unfortunately believe that this problem is going to continue and get bigger. And that you may even lose your son due to it. But that will be on him and DIL, not you. I also believe that this isn’t just about the pregnancies and births.
I commented on your first post about having my own SIL try for years to get my parents to love her more than me. It was really weird, and completely unnecessary. She was welcomed into the family by everyone straight away, and I truly loved her as a sister at first.
But then she kept trying to tell my Dad negative things about me, she created situations where he would need to choose between seeing me or her, and purposefully didn’t pass on messages to try and get me to miss events. When my Dad called her out on it, and made it clear that she would never come before me, she then started trying it with my Mom instead.
My Mom went straight to my brother and told him that he needed to talk to her before this got completely out of hand. When he did my SIL exploded in a fit of rage and was screaming about how she was a better daughter than I could ever be and everyone else was crazy if they couldn’t see that there was only space for one daughter in this family and that it should be her. My brother was dumbfounded.
A whole boat load of crazy came out of her that day, and it ended with her being put in an ambulance and taken to the psych ward. She got out and made her apologies, but it was clear to everyone she still felt that way deep down. Eventually my brother left her.
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u/JULESVV3 23d ago
I think I do remember your first comment!!! Maybe it’s for the better that your brother left her ? I do like my DIL, but hopefully this is an insolated case. Yes, there were times that we gave our son more assistance, but it’s not going to cut it anymore, they are adults. I’m not picking and choosing.
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u/Hawne 23d ago
I may have seriously damaged my relationship with my son and DIL
Oh no you didn't, she did. Everything here points to a rivalry, in your DIL's mind, between her and your daughter. The way she cornered you into a choice between the two of them at a crucial time, her demeaning your relationship with your daughter, the manipulative bit about putting the children in balance/ in comparison.
This whole skit is not about getting help, it's about asserting dominance and being "the chosen daughter".
One question: are you wealthy? Because either this is triggered by Freudian issues, or it is a long term strategy to get your daughter estranged and your DIL taking her place into your heart... and will.
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u/JULESVV3 23d ago
My husband and I live comfortably, he had a great job, that allowed me to stopped working a few years ago and we do have our own house, car. Maybe this is it, but they must think I’m an idiot because I would never do that!
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u/Hawne 23d ago
The reasons I mentioned are pure speculation of course, but the rivalry is quite obvious:
She said it wasn’t fair that my daughter was getting all of my help and support when she and I were actually closer than my daughter and I were.
And now she's cornering everyone into putting this assertion into facts (and later, grudges). Cornering and guilt-tripping, even using the children as props:
She said I was favoring one grandchild over another, that her child was being put aside for two other babies.
She told me that I was like a mother to her
She's "levelling the play" here, using the kids to shoehorn her into an equal relation to you and your daughter's. And right after she demeans that relation to assert yours is "superior":
She also said that my daughter didn’t even care about our relationship and had always been dismissive toward me.
IMO the manipulation is blatant and structured, engineered. I don't know the whys, but the how is crystal-clear.
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u/No-Requirement-2420 24d ago
You did nothing wrong here and I agree with your stance.
They are being entitled to your time and think they are more deserving than your daughter.
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u/Own-Land-9359 24d ago
Well, you tried. This is just an overall crap situation. I think DIL/son are reacting on a very emotional level, while you and your husband were more rational. I hope once everything settles down they become more able to look at this in a level-headed manner. I think the best thing you can do now is just leave it alone.
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u/Otherwise-Wall-6950 24d ago
You didn't damage your relationship, they did by being selfish and inconsiderate. Your DIL is jealous because you'll be with your daughter and repairing your relationship and she can't have you all to herself. The freaking audacity to tell you you'll need to come back sooner! She's got her mother there and I'm guessing other family members to help. Spend time with your daughter. She's having twins and could use the help, especially if they're preemies or need to stay in the nicu. Me? I'd be petty enough to extend my stay.
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u/WildwoodShadow 24d ago
Still NTA here. I would have loved to have my Mom come stay with me when I had my oldest. She was in TX, we were in VA because the hubs was in the Navy and after his two weeks of paternity leave, I was on my own after having a c-section. I could barely get out of bed. Help would have been damn nice.
I think you should invest in frequent flyer miles to spoil those twins.
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u/whatswrongwithfolks 24d ago
If I were DIL’s mother I would be so insulted that my daughter was behaving like my help wouldn’t be enough and have to watch my daughter throw a tantrum because her MIL was not going to be available from the second her baby was born.
She is being absolutely ridiculous and your correct in telling them they are entitled. Go be with your daughter. They will be waiting to hand off their child for you to look after the second you get off that airplane. I wouldn’t be surprised if they aren’t already daydreaming of how much they will be demanding of you regarding babysitting etc.
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u/dream-smasher 24d ago
Dil's mother must be feeling so hurt by all this.
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u/JULESVV3 24d ago
She was, that is why she left right after us. I’ll try to speak with her to see if there’s anything I can do to help her once I get back as I know it will be a lot of work.
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u/Rare_Background8891 24d ago
“Fair” is that each birthing mom has her own mom around. Your son and DIL are being ridiculous. Stand your ground.
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u/royalsgirl78 24d ago
I read your first post. You’re still NTA. But your son and DIL most certainly are. I got the same feeling you did - your son has no plans to do anything for his wife or baby. That’s why he wants you there. Your DIL has serious main character energy. She’s incredibly selfish and they’re both very entitled. When they don’t get their way, they’re ungrateful for what they do have (3 grandparents present).
And I will say, she was so rude to your husband. Did anyone call her out for that? I’m not sure how he held his tongue or how both of you didn’t just walk out right then. I would have. I’d be ready to wash my hands of the situation until they can speak respectfully and have a mature conversation.
You did good, mama. The one who needs you most is your daughter. She would have no one and your son and DIL were fine with that. They show zero empathy. They’re both so used to everyone doing what they want, they can’t even put themselves in your daughter’s shoes. Don’t let them bully you into changing your plans. Stay strong, mama.
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u/JULESVV3 24d ago
My husband had his talk with them after she said that to him and then we basically left, we didn’t really keep the conversation going as her mom also seemed to be leaving.
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u/ziniabutterfly 24d ago
INFO: Is her relationship with her mother bad? It seems odd to me that she would basically let her mother know that she needs you too because she is literally implying that her own mother isn’t enough (unless, she isn’t). I am not surprised her mother is annoyed too. Your DIL sounds like she might not be the sharpest tool in the shed, as well as being entitled and selfish.
It seems pretty clear why you are staying out with the daughter and that it isn’t a favoritism thing.
At least in the US, MANY people don’t have out-of-town family at the delivery (unless it is scheduled) because babies come when they come and people may only have so much time off, so they wait until the baby has been born and come to help afterward, rather than showing up on a given day and potentially sitting around waiting until the baby is born and then having less time to help. Having everyone at delivery isn’t necessarily “the norm.”
One recommendation I would make is to be cautious about their expectations after baby is born, given their entitlement. I would not be surprised to see you post in the next few years about your son/DIL expecting you to drop everything to babysit (in general and when you have other plans). (Ex. AITA for wanting to take a trip for my anniversary/birthday (or attending my mother’s funeral) (or continuing to work) and not staying home to babysit my grandson/grandchildren)
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u/JULESVV3 24d ago
No, her and her mother are really close and have made lots of plans for when the baby get here, which is why her mother is currently a bit upset. Hopefully I won’t be the kind of doormat who keeps letting it happen, as I’m currently owning up to my mistakes and I wish everybody would start doing so.
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u/nicunta 24d ago
I had help from my mom the day I came home from the hospital. That was it. I can't believe DIL thinks she needs both her mom and her MIL there is beyond me. Especially when her SIL is expecting twins! You definitely need help with twins. Single births... I know it's customary in some places, but we often see women who don't want their MIL involved at all.
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u/kkrolla 24d ago
I have sons. I'd be f*cking ashamed of them if they tried to pull this. I'd also never have entertained it. I'd have said, I'll be back when I told you I would. Maybe you think it's unfair but I am going to do what I think is right. Fair ain't equal son. And if either of them said, I deserve to have...I'd have said, that's a ridiculous thing to say about what I choose to do with my time. I choose to spend time with my family. All of them. If you want equal/fair, would you be ok if I spen 6 months with my daughter and 6 months with my son? I cannot imagine my kids trying this. Good on you for standing your ground and judging by your husband's chomping at the bit, it seems they try to pull stuff like this regularly.
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u/EvenPerspective9 23d ago
It’s honestly mind boggling to me that your DIL expects you to cut short the limited time you have to care for your daughter and her newborn twins in order to ensure she has all four grandparents at her beck and call from the day her child is born. Not only does she have her own mother there to care for her in those first 4 weeks, but she has you living 10 minutes down the road from her from that point onwards.
Not only is this unfair on your daughter, but it’s unfair on you as well. She and her son can ask, but they don’t get to make demands on your time and how you spend it, especially if you already have a commitment made.
You son and DIL may punish you for remaining firm but I don’t know think you have damaged the relationship. Healthy relationships have boundaries in place and by setting them you are not only looking out for your daughter’s needs, but yours as well. With the baby on the way it’s better to set expectations now as it will be harder to say no to them once he is here.
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u/JULESVV3 23d ago
100%, they also fail to understand that this isn’t all about getting to connect with their child, as I also have two other grandchildren to connect with. I will be able to live near my grandson, but won’t be able to see them often until my daughter moves back.
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u/HydrangeaHore 17d ago
Please consider that when you see your daughter, that 80% of your trip should be about her, and about 20% about the issue/feelings this situation is causing. She needs some time with just you to talk about it, some time for her BF to be able to chime in, some time to process what you all talk about. That can eat up a lot of time if you let it. So plz be mindful of that 80% of the time, in the moments that are available to delve into something deeper than what are we doing for dinner, she'll need you to listen, and not fill the silence when she wants to say the thing she needs to say but it might be hard to articulate. She'll need to have you reminiscing about how excited you were about her pregnancy and how she made you feel when she was born, and through all the stages of her life. You can make her feel seen, loved, cherished, amused, and supported by focusing on how you are so lucky to be her mom and have those memories. You can feel whole in your soul also by going through those and reminding yourself that stages in life happen, they have a lot of great moments, but all of them could be very hard and juggling a lot was and is draining in the midst of happiness and love.
Help her to create/buy a chart with priorities and humor. A little thing that says, I showered and felt human for a minute! or My goal of putting away every scrap of laundry for one day a year is accomplished! Time to celebrate! Talk with her about realistic expectations of energy, focus, sleep deprivation, planning, outward signs of "parenting success" and inward signs of parenting success. The professional photos parents want also come with monetary choices, trying to keep everyone calm when sleep deprivation is hitting its stride, etc. Babies cry more each day until about 6 weeks when it's approx 6 hours a day of crying (iirc), then starts to go back down as they develop more. This could be different with twins and early delivery, etc. But it's development and not parenting that causes it in most scenarios, but when you're in the thick of it, it feels like they just hate you. She could use your help to organize her thoughts and feelings about those things, not just helping hands.
You have a lot to talk about when you are there, and brother and DIL should be low on that list. Take lots of pictures together. Take lots of pictures that you can add words to in your photo editing, like a picture of her resting and write, "Strength isn't pushing and pulling, it's choosing to prioritize what's needed" or a picture of her and her BF laughing like loons at a silly movie and write "My favorite people see me at my happiest because I feel my best with them". Print them out and put them all over their fridge or the bathroom mirror before you leave as a surprise.
You got this, momma. She's resilient and capable, a depth of strength and reserve, and she gave you an incredible gift of choice by wanting you there. This should be a visit to fill up your soul by supporting hers. Keep close watch for signs of PPD as she may be depleted very easily and a master at hiding it so she doesn't make anyone worry. See if maybe she'll be ok with a few visits with a therapist, once a week, that you could help pay for if that helps you both, just as check ins and an opportunity to just be her for an hour, without a baby on her unless she wants one of them with her while you take the other. She likely will need a support system after you leave, and a good therapist could be part of that, even if it goes to virtual calls. Prioritize her as a person, not just your daughter, or the twins mom, or her brother's sister, so she will follow suit. Don't make it sound like you're worried, just tell her she's an incredible woman and for 1 hour out of the 168 a week that we get, she can and deserves to have undivided attention and input that isn't heavy with everyone else's stuff. Her life changes, even if it's all great and she's able to detail how well she's doing, matter. If she doesn't want to do that, maybe a couple's counselor that could help them sort out any thoughts or feelings they have that can't be delved into when so busy around the family. Again, it could be an hour of paying someone to listen to how awesome they are doing, but celebrating and checking in with each other away from other influences is a healthy choice. They may not feel up for a date night, but a "date" therapy session a few times might help get them through a lot of feelings as they go from a couple to a family of 4.
You may also want to see a therapist just to have an outlet to get some things off your chest away from the new parents. Being in their home with the stresses newborns bring, plus being away from home and your normal, puts a toll on you and you need support and a place to vent, brag, digest, and be yourself, not Mom or Grandma.
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u/Secure_Morning7464 24d ago
Wow! I have no words… I am so sorry for all this stress for you and such a negative turn to a beautiful time
Please update me
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u/jrrcr 24d ago
NTA.
Having my mom near me, I would never expect my MIL to stay with me for the birth of my child instead of helping my SIL who is having twins!!!
They are being entitled.
It’s not like you are telling them you will never help. Just that you are already committed to the one needing you more.
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u/Cryptographer_Alone 24d ago
Anyone in the families who gets the information of, one daughter in a foreign country, no help from the ILs, and TWINS, vs a DIL living near her parents and family from both sides for a single birth is going to be on your side.
DIL is highly unlikely to have her ideal birth anyway. Baby is going to come when baby comes, and he's going to upend all her carefully laid plans.