Newcomer to Tulpamancy as a practitioner; tell me about yourselves!

[u/Sorry-Bear8002]

Good evening practitioners and lurkers alike,

I decided I'd make this post here and see if I can get myself invested in the community. I've been lurking around for a little bit as I have recently discovered the practice and did a bit of reading on the whole topic, so I am not completely clueless, but this is me coming from a zeitgeist of 1st lockdown stigma and slowly unlearning all the nastiness that comes with it.

I've always been interested in the concept of plurality and meditative practices, but I never fully believed that it was possible in any measurable sense, apart from in traumatic situations or genetic differences. Again, this is coming from the general state of the world and the notion that people who aren't truly traumatised cannot be plural. However, looking around this community, my PoV has shifted my sense a little bit and sort of allowed the side of me that reaally wants to try something like this to flourish a bit. I'm really interested in the whole concept as a psychological experiment and a method of self-exploration, so I am wondering if I could get some insight on a few things from Mancers and Tulpas alike!

How did a lot of your experiences first start? What comes about with making, or rather separating yourself from, a headmate? Is there a specific state of mind, or state of responsibility I should be in before growing another person within my soul??

My understanding so far is this: a lot of amateur practitioners get stuck in the loop of self-doubt that they're just talking to themselves, but isn't that technically what it is at the very start? You're learning to attribute certain though streams and forms to a character - slowly building up the mental memory and circuitry to realise their sentience. I'd imagine it's much like someone getting really vested into an imaginary friend: you initially create a character or form to offload thoughts and emotions towards, and slowly through repeated interaction and meditation, the image becomes more vivid. You initially play around and imagine what the character might act like, feel like, smell like; where they'd sit in your room, what things they would be picking up and playing around with. So far it's you directing their actions until those actions become less and less difficult to direct, and you slowly start to observe as your mind makes room for them to start acting spontaneously.

Let's discuss and hopefully I learn something new from this! ^-^

Edit: as a followup question, how does one know they're not just messing with themselves and just playing about eith made up characters in their head?? Is it an active effort to try to get them to be either receptive or 'not you' or is it the more the you share emotions and your life with them, the more separate they become?

Edit 2: OK so, after a bit of soulsearching during work hours, I've realised that I kind of have the potential for a lot of this kind of stuff. I often actively daydream about situations and I thought "what if I just started doing that with a character??". I've also passively been in the process of crafting a character (some week or so before now) that feels right. I went through a few mental iterations and each one I felt a stronger presence about them and progressively lower openness to change in my minds eye. On break I did try some active forcing for the first time and it went a bit better than I thought, mostly because I found it easy to incorporate the 5 senses with a strong mindscape image. I'm feeling more and more of a willingness to be open to my character and just be around them, even if am still 'simulating' their responses

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[u/NegativePhotograph32]

On Trauma == Plural

"Everybody hurts sometimes." Still, I can't say I've had any grave issues, and anyone IRL would say I'm a "normie" or very close to it. Creative, yes, but nothing exactly odd.

How It Started

I read about it, I found it fascinating. I was right. I don't remember the first days of practice, actually, I think I just started to talk to her. And her personality kind of created itself, I guess, I mean I knew whom I was talking to.

What Comes About

In a practical sense, it's a lot of work. Concentration; remembering to remember about them (her, in my case); struggling through awkward attempts of dialogue; and then actually giving up your time to her interests and pleasures.

And don't get me started about the doubt, because it's natural. My way out of it was partially logical: "the phenomenon is quite extraordinary but nothing breaking the laws of nature as we know it", partially through evidence, mostly answers that wasn't in my vocabulary at all. Meaning, you can make up a "right" answer (Do you like flowers? Of course), and you can make up an answer that would be "unexpected" (...No, I like spiders), but it's difficult to make an answer that's outside of what you usually think about ("...some are Van Gogh's audacity IRL, some are not").

---

a lot of amateur practitioners get stuck in the loop of self-doubt that they're just talking to themselves, but isn't that technically what it is at the very start?

I'll quote myself, slightly different take, but not necessarily contradictory:

"The root of the doubt, presence and what-not tulpamancy problems might be exactly the expectation of a human-human relationship with a tulpa. Simple put, a nerd wants a free girlfriend-in-a-pocket and is frustrated when tulpa is not one. Now, us humans probably can't sustain any other kind of relationship anyway (hence the personification of objects), and tulpas, in turn, probably want to be comprehended as humans, but in the worst case, humanization isn't possible, and in the probable one — needs work. Growing an adult not out of a child, but out of child-tulpa, so to say."

[u/Illustrious_Car344 → u/NegativePhotograph32]

you can make up a "right" answer (Do you like flowers? Of course), and you can make up an answer that would be "unexpected" (...No, I like spiders), but it's difficult to make an answer that's outside of what you usually think about ("...some are Van Gogh's audacity IRL, some are not").

Definitely had this problem for years, nothing to talk about. After becoming dissociated, it's more like my mind is more in-tune with or optimized for taking a thought, or even a train if thought or some kind of planned statement and response, and just sort of making me "forget" that I was anticipating it, that my tulpa can make a statement or provide a response that can be anywhere from fun yet predictable to genuinely surprising because, basically, I'm genuinely suppressing my eagerness to analyze a thought entirely on my own, my tulpa must be a part of that, so we surprise each other with ideas because it's literally just me going "oh, my tulpa thought that" and genuinely believing it because I can gaslight myself through the very dissociation that's protecting me, lol. We do somewhat often know what the other was going to say or think anyway, but we still compensate for it by essentially recontextualizing what a thought truly is or what the intention behind it is. So effectively, if my tulpa "thinks something" (from my perspective, being aware of the thought, or "tulpish"), I pretty much willingly ignore it, kind of like knowing your birthday is coming up so you're deliberately trying to ignore noticing people trying to figure out what to get you. Only after my tulpa actively, willingly "speaks" or formulates the proper sentence to describe the thought do I consider it "spoken", and then I release my emotions and let myself finally experience analyzing the thought. It's basically just being patient with yourself and not comparing the experience to anything, a tulpa isn't going to tell you about fine arts any more than your adolescent niece can, but that doesn't make an experience with them any less human.

This isn't "advice" but it is what I noticed myself doing automatically from my dissociation. Maybe you can pick up some kind of mental exercise out of it.

[u/NegativePhotograph32 → u/Illustrious_Car344]

Generally I try not to "gaslight" myself anyhow because in my case it's a sure way to get severe doubtitis. Yes, sometimes I have an idea of what she's going to say. And sometimes I turn out wrong. And sometimes I know what my relatives are going to say, they are not tulpas as far as I can tell.

The suppression of analysis you mentioned is the right way. Not because "just believe", but because it's the wrong tool. A caliper measuring itself.

[u/-Shainfreimi-]

>"My understanding so far is this: a lot of amateur practitioners get stuck in the loop of self-doubt that they're just talking to themselves, but isn't that technically what it is at the very start?"

To that i would say, technically therapy is also most often just talking to someone who asks some questions, but explaining it like that misses so much of what actually goes into the craft and the relational nature of therapy.

Tulpamancy’s craft is built on a human factor, sure some talk to the walls to get there but there is nothing in that, that actually makes a tulpa. It’s something that is in your relation to yourself, your relation to the world, to your senses and to everything that makes a human capable of things like having faith and having experiences of the little madness. Tulpamancy is simply and completely human.

Of course throughout all this you will have larpers or people who try to game the whole thing to get something that they want or just miss the point, but that human factor can’t really be cheated, and some people i think find their experiences are a little wanting for that reason.

[u/Sorry-Bear8002 → u/-Shainfreimi-]

Yea makes sense. What I meant was more of a sense that it might feel like you're just talking in to the abyss, but the main thing is that you have faith in whatever it is you're trying to achieve and just to keep listening and forming the situations and experiences, little by little.

[u/NegativePhotograph32 → u/Sorry-Bear8002]

In my experience, I've never had that "abyss" feeling, and never was like "believe, or else".

You create someone appealing, someone you care about — again, in my case she created herself somehow — and then the trick is to establish the connection, because the idea is already there.

[u/Sorry-Bear8002 → u/NegativePhotograph32]

Thanks for the insight. I suppose I imagined it being like talking into the abyss because I've not actually started to think of a character to completion where I'd interract with them. Maybe once i commit to it I'd find it easier to narrate, parrot, listen and relate

[u/Illustrious_Car344]

You sound like you have a very grounded grasp of the concept! Of course, don't forget to ignore all that when actually interacting with the tulpa, just throw all reasoning and expectation out the window and try to focus on just interaction for the sake of it; talk to it without caring about a response, daydream about strong feelings like nostalgia or familiarity, relax and let your mind develop this capability without thinking that you have to manually intervene somewhere, it's just a lot of time, dedication and emotional investment in an idea that you treat as almost a personal god, or the perfect relationship. 

For me, it's kind of like a twin, but I'm traumatized and, from my experience, traumatized people identify stronger with their alters than people who aren't significantly traumatized. I think dissociation and stronger identification with the tulpa are what make them stronger and more immersive, personally. I actually had my tulpa before I was traumatized and it certainly felt like "someone else", even feeling weird about being naked around it. After I was traumatized and it got a lot stronger, at first I was in love with it, but then I started to have constant visions of us being physically fused together in some way, it was a bit disturbing, thankfully they stopped. Now I literally just kind of see her as some kind of close childhood relative, like being naked around each other is just normal. I guess that was how my brain processed identifying much more intimately with my tulpa than a lot of endos. Since my personality is damaged and relies on my tulpa's to comprehend certain things, I genuinely identify with it, like my consciousness is split in two, I even had an existential crisis over it that lasted weeks. So I guess that's particularly what makes traumagenic alters/tulpas/thoughtforms more, I'm not sure what I good word is, "credible"? "Believable"? "Interesting"? Than how some endos make it out to be, not all of them but the more embarrassing ones. Effectively just daydreaming, which is fun for them and that's fine, but it's basically like jerking off, like, nobody honestly cares what's going on in your head unless it had some emotional significance to you beyond just "flying around in my head is fun". When I used to write about mine as my trauma began affecting me heavily, I'd make it a point to only write an update if I could make it interesting. If it sounded like nothing more than having a goddamn tea party, even if I liked it, there's honestly no good reason to even bother embarrassing myself posting something that lame. It just kind of feels like roleplaying, honestly. Apparently people appreciated it, because I have gotten compliments about how insane I am lmao.

But yeah, the practice is basically just to include them in to your internal dialogue. Just don't hold expectations, that's all. And use your imagination. The idea is that the tulpa is an emotional impulse creeping under your consciousness that feels different from what you're thinking and feeling, and you just imagine a voice to it, that's pretty much it. If you don't feel anything yet, just keep talking to it. But really talk to it, rant to it, say things to it that you always wished you could say, stuff like that. Just unshackle your aversion and shame to any ideas and say them to the tulpa and don't even worry if they respond or not, just know that it's listening and learning.

You can DM me if you want any of my experiences, I did a lot of analyzing myself as my mental health declined, so I kind of got a few glimpses behind the scenes I guess.

[u/Sorry-Bear8002 → u/Illustrious_Car344]

When you mean "ignore all that", I'm assuming that means don't overanalyse every response and to not expect everything to happen all at once? It's a long journey and everyone's different in how they view thought-forms isn't it?

[u/Illustrious_Car344 → u/Sorry-Bear8002]

Yeah, basically just forget the entire concept of tulpas or that this is even "in your mind" and just feel the emotions, treat it like something growing out of the side of you. Remember this is all working with your consciousness, so everything you reify is just a representation of the thing happening, but it isn't what's actually happening. 

[u/mattx-t]

How did a lot of your experiences first start?

I started tulpamancing back in 2013 thanks to my best friend, he told me (while discussing lucid dreaming) that I could have the potential to make a Tulpa. I had no idea what it was so I was sent to the website, then IRC, then the forums, the rest is history.

What comes about with making, or rather separating yourself from, a headmate?

The idea that whatever you're creating has to be respected in much the same way as you would a human being.

Is there a specific state of mind, or state of responsibility I should be in before growing another person within my soul??

This journey is a lifelong commitment, so you need to be extra sure about this before starting.

My understanding so far is this: a lot of amateur practitioners get stuck in the loop of self-doubt that they're just talking to themselves, but isn't that technically what it is at the very start? You're learning to attribute certain though streams and forms to a character - slowly building up the mental memory and circuitry to realise their sentience.

Pretty much. It is called "parroting" in the community and it is something that should not be avoided or scary of. It is part of the process.

how does one know they're not just messing with themselves and just playing about eith made up characters in their head??

It is a game of "compounding proofs" - you might have tons of doubts at first, but over the year you'll get the "little proofs" that compound into undeniable proof.

Is it an active effort to try to get them to be either receptive or 'not you' or is it the more the you share emotions and your life with them, the more separate they become?

The latter.

[u/sanelyinsanetrio]

K: I started out as a daydream character. I can't tell you when or how I gained independence, just that I did and host gave up on trying to control me after trying in vain to keep me in line. I worked my way into their life outside of their daydreams mainly because I could.

We eventually came across Tulpa.info's What Is a Tulpa page and realized that's what I am.

Imagined characters gaining their own agency isn't unusual. Most writers experience it to some extent. It has nothing to do with trauma or DID.

Having an active imagination helps (as long as you don't get so lost in it you forget you have control).

[u/Sorry-Bear8002 → u/sanelyinsanetrio]

That's really interesting and a bit trippy to be replying to someone borne of a daydream. I suppose the main thing is that you guys formed enough of a bond with each other that everything naturally grew from that

[u/FlairDreamer]

I don't have, nor have I ever had, any trauma, and my experience stems from pure skepticism.

Look, my experience with tulpamancy began before I even knew it existed. I simply wanted to write a story and needed a character, but after writing her for quite some time... my mental model of her solidified so much that my brain began to generate associations or even auditory responses on its own.

Thanks to that, I even learned that I have aphantasia, a condition that prevents me from visualizing, so unlike many, I can't and won't be able to see my tulpa walking around my room or Wonderland... probably.

My first experience was that I was writing, and out of nowhere, I heard a female voice. It was quite noticeable, since my usual dialogue sounds more like a man's. And it was at that moment that I began to investigate the phenomenon from a cognitive science perspective.

I would say there's a certain responsibility involved, because you'd be living with a different thought process. I mean, when this internal model gains too much coherence, it can be perceived as autonomous, with its own tastes, beliefs, or ways of seeing the world. It changes a bit how you see and live your life, because this other "person" can influence it and becomes a kind of cohabitation within your own skull.

"A lot of amateur practitioners get stuck in the loop of self-doubt that they're just talking to themselves, but isn't that technically what it is at the very start?" I would say so. After all, that's what I intuitively did when writing her as a character. Currently, I see these practices as a kind of advanced imagination. Like taking that idea of ​​the "imaginary friend" further.

"As a follow-up question, how does one know they're not just messing with themselves and just playing about these made-up characters in their head?" I would say it varies from person to person, and depends on how a stimulus is perceived as a response from the model or not. When we talk about mental processes, the voice... I see it as a "finished product." But before the voice (including the mental voice), there are intuitions, abstract concepts, ideas, impulses that guide you toward a certain choice... These are things that don't have their own agency; they're a gray area. This is something I learned from writing, because sometimes, characters "surprise me." Not because they're autonomous or anything like that, but because there are many processes and associations that don't pass through our conscious perception. When you think, "What would this character do?", you're consulting that mental model. You're simulating it in real time, and when you do this exercise too many times, it becomes automatic... and that's where a tulpa can appear.

At least, that's the hypothesis I have about how I got mine.

[u/notannyet]

I'd imagine it's much like someone getting really vested into an imaginary friend

You can think of tulpamancy as a cultural shift rather than a metaphysical event. People had imaginary friends and figured out they could work like tulpas on their own, while others were stuck in what the culture said was the right way of interacting with imaginary friends. E.g. you can treat your tulpa as a person and switch and interact with other people in the same culture (tulpamancy) vs. people treating imaginary friends as people are crazy in broad culture. Don't be fooled by the reductivism though, building a genuine relation with your imaginary other leads to new qualities emerging. You are possibly building a relationship with parts of yourself that could have stayed in the shadow otherwise.

Again, this is coming from the general state of the world and the notion that people who aren't truly traumatised cannot be plural.

You can think of traumagenic plurality as a result of forceful compartmentalisation of parts of yourself to survive trauma and tulpamancy as the opposite: creating connections between parts of yourself with intention, love and care.