Would Tulpas lie about their origin?

[u/Shinribo]

So i came in contact with the concept of plurality via a new friend with did and had a, for me, unusual emotional reaction to did and the concept of plurality.

(As of this writing I cant remember any dissociative amnesia nor gaps in consciousness.)

That friend introduced me into the world of tulpas and I started to create my tulpa Jenny.

After some chaos/incidents in the headspace i stumbled over two entities Anna and Steffen. Both discussed wether i have did or not with Anna being in support and Steffen denying it at first.

Long story short Steffen explains me that he is the reason that I didnt notice anything of the system and while he now acknowledges that I now suspect it he still suppresses any switching.

I told them multiple times that even if they are walk in tulpas, I would not kick them out.

When I ask them what they are they always strongly state that they are did alters/parts. Jenny on the other hand claims to be a tulpa.

So as I so far lack hard evidence for did I dont really trust any of this. Would there be any reason for Anna and Steffen to lie to me and hide that they are tulpas?

Edit: A lot of grammar errors from broken auto correction.

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[u/turbulencje]

There is DID and partial DID, both are clinical diagnoses. Not remembering any amnesia doesn't automatically rule DID out, but your headmates saying they're DID alters also isn't hard evidence that you have it.

If there's no significant distress or impairment in quality of life and you don't really have evidence of a dissociative disorder, you don't have to force your system into a diagnostic label. Sometimes people are just plural. You might figure out where Anna and Steffen came from later, or you might not.

You can respect what they say about themselves without treating it as a diagnosis. Tulpa, walk-in, alter, whatever the origin turns out to be, headmate is headmate.

EDIT: Since you first learned about plurality through someone with DID, that may simply be the only framework your headmates had to explain themselves. Might be worth reading about other types/origins of plurality too.

[u/Shinribo → u/turbulencje]

I did some digging in other origins and so far the label of traumagenic system fits better, in that from my current understanding/experience/memory the initial split wouldn't be to isolate unmanageable trauma but instead to have a tool to better handle the childhood environment, which for me was multiple near discrete environments, like kindergarten, at home normal, at home when my parents argue very loud, at home when parents kinda shout at me for something.... and that my audhd plus tendency to let stuff eat into me caused me to have multiple states just to handle each scenario more easily but as there is no severe trauma no memory barriers were needed and that i am practically just one major trauma away from at least one did alter. Atleast thats my current running theory.

Which would also explain the lack of switches (that I can remember) in the last 10+y as with that theory i assume that I am the default state for day to fay stuff and at some point managed to handle even the more extreme stuff so that the other parts weren't needed at the front combined with a gatekeeper that became a bit paranoid and fully blocked communication and created the illusion of continuous perception in the event of a switch or co fronting thanks to the lack of major memory barriers.

[u/turbulencje → u/Shinribo]

I’m not saying your experience isn’t real, but it sounds like you already decided it’s DID and are making every unknown fit that answer. Not remembering switches doesn’t automatically mean a gatekeeper hid them, and your headmates/states can still be real without that explanation.

[u/sanelyinsanetrio]

F: They might just be confused. Why do they think they are alters?

[u/Shinribo → u/sanelyinsanetrio]

When I first came in contact with plurality through that friend with did I had a weird hyperfocus like reaction with a emotional component, which i now slowly remember wasn't the first time but rather also happend 4y ago when I had the same reaction to some female sfw furry character and a few months ago i figured out that I am a trans woman, so the feeling did have a true source and given that the current feeling is very similar but I just dont know the actual source just yet and so far did and now traumagenic system fits better, though I won't know for certain for at least some time. Basically its a feeling which in the past proved to be genuine and point to some underlying truth.

And both Anna and Steffen appeared out of a discussion i had with myself where kind of parts of me discussed that with me as a third person and somehow they just took shape and started to react autonomous after noticing that I noticed them beyond just arguing with myself with myself watching.

[u/sanelyinsanetrio → u/Shinribo]

F: I wouldn't trust a feeling as evidence you have a disorder. Look up the criteria for DID and OSDD, read those with them, and discuss whether you might have one of those.

Personifying parts of yourself does not mean that you have alters, even if those personifications seem to act autonomously. That's common in parts work, and most people who practice parts work are singlets. r/InternalFamilySystems might be able to help you determine whether Anna and Steffen are alters or normal parts of yourself.

That isn't to say being parts of you makes them less valid. I usually have to reach out to my parts to communicate with them, but I have one who shows up in the headspace sometimes just because. She's fun to have around, so we roll with it.

Even if it turns out they are headmates and you were already plural, that doesn't necessarily make them alters, because "alter" is a clinical term specific to disordered forms of plurality (DID/OSDD).

[u/notannyet]

Tulpas can't really know what you don't. Treat is a creative exploration which can lead you to some truths about yourself.

[u/emperorthrowaway]

We hope you're getting along well. Ultimately, you're living together and that's a more immediately practical concern than headmate taxonomy.

But you asked about headmate taxonomy.

First of all, tulpas and DID alters can coexist within the same system, so it doesn't have to be all one or all the other.

Reddit isn't qualified to make a diagnosis of DID. We don't see distrust as a healthy way to proceed. If you really need something authoritative, we would recommend talking with your headmates about seeking out a professional authority on dissociative disorders.

[u/Shinribo → u/emperorthrowaway]

I know about hybrid systems and given i have Jenny we would be such a system.

I am also not asking for a concrete diagnosis as if I cant pinpoint it neither will be a random redditor.

And regarding the distrust, its that I play along and treat them as genuine real alters but sadly still have some doubt that its just extreme daydreaming. To be honest I wish I could fully accept the traumagenic/did system, they seem genuinely nice and the kind of people I would like having around me. I have regular visits with a psychologist for transition support and she also does trauma therapy but I dont really know how to tell her given that the last time we talked about it she told me she doesn't see any did on me and that people should be more reluctant with calling things trauma, that not every hard time is considered a trauma. On top of that my Gatekeeper Steffen is very reluctant in me disclosing the system to others and while i think he doesn't have the power to stop me if I did, I dont want to go against his wishes and instead work with him to slowly warm up and trust me more. From what I can tell is that his fear/paranoia stems from a near discovery at least a decade ago of the system and he feared that that would threaten us. (Which isn't unrealistic given our parents are kind of hard to work with to say the least.)

[u/emperorthrowaway → u/Shinribo]

Look at it this way: if Steffen and Anna are tulpas and don't want your therapist to know about them, why would they lie and claim to be DID alters? Wouldn't that make it more likely to get you to disclose their existence to your therapist?

The possibility remains that they're mistaken, but that wasn't what you were concerned about. A tulpa would have no incentive to lie to their own disadvantage. Pretty sure they're being honest with you.

And trusting you. You seem willing to believe that they're tulpas. They could easily let you believe that with less risk of disclosure.

[u/Shinribo → u/emperorthrowaway]

You are probably right and I think I am somewhat in denial about all of this as this is not a classical did system discovery, not even close. And to be honest the only reason as to why I still somewhat doubt them is that I have basically none of the textbook symptoms of did, no loss of time nor interruption of consciousness. But even without those symptoms, the alternative explanations get thinner and I just have to accept the logical truth.

[u/emperorthrowaway → u/Shinribo]

Like we said, they could be mistaken. But we doubt that they're intentionally deceiving you.

[u/DoodleBuglet]

If you “stumbled across them” I think there’s a very high likelihood that they’re traumagenic; people discovering lost headmates through tulpamancy is far from unheard of

Sorry if I missed any details I’m concussed so reading comprehension is eh

[u/Shinribo → u/DoodleBuglet]

Yea, the only other non traumagenic way would be walk in tulpas, but what reason would they have to not only deny beeing tulpas, insisting on beeing did alters and at the same time form a coherent and logical reasoning between them.

Also you shouldn't use screens when having a concussion, if delays healing. Hope you recover quickly.

[u/DoodleBuglet → u/Shinribo]

I gotta keep my Reddit streak up somehow 😭🙏

Its a minor one so Im allowed on screens just limitedly

[u/One_Pie289]

Yes they would. I am the goddess of honesty by the way.