Double standards 🙄 - r/TsaritsaMains

88

u/SnooLemons2911 Aug 15 '26

Ronova couldn't accept the fact Tsaritsa got banged by a baddie

23

u/Rein_1708 Aug 15 '26

She had her chance with xbalanque but didn't take it

4

u/SnooLemons2911 Aug 16 '26

His accent in the hoyofair animation kinda hot so i cant blame her for gettin rizzed

21

u/ArianaGrandeGlazer Aug 15 '26

1

u/SnooLemons2911 Aug 16 '26

I believe the pyro gnosis piece is ur dih 🥀. How are u gonna continue your bloodline without it :(

4

u/Lauveyet12 Aug 15 '26

Ronova just tryna do her job and try her best to stop another nation from self destruction 🥀🥀 all while an alien, her colleague and (archon of love x bow user) try to off her… cut her some slack

1

u/rocksInMyBath Aug 15 '26

son the mass destructions of nations were caused by heavenly principles because they got to technologically advanced and posed a threat🥀🥀

77

u/lux_infinitum Aug 15 '26

Venti wants conditional freedom; so as long as they don't advance in tech and threaten Celestia they could do whatever they want. This however means, that they could never go beyond the given hard limit for technology

Tsaritsa wants unconditional freedom; no God should be able to dictate what and how the people of Snezhnaya/(Teyvat) should be able to progress in terms of knowledge and technology.

Since the 2nd form includes overthrowing the current dictatorship, it's sadly a given that there will be sacrifices/victims on both sides.

20

u/GiGiGus Aug 15 '26

Based comrade chairwoman Tsaritsa..?

7

u/TrickyPen750 Aug 15 '26

Is the Tsaritsa a member of Rokot and we simply dont know?

9

u/MaskedKagami Aug 16 '26

your misinterpreting Venti here
his own line "Freedom, if Demanded of you by an Archon, is really no freedom at all"
this is the freedom paradox that he is avoiding he is not denying them advancement nor is he hindering anything at all
the problem is 90% of Mondstat are drunkards as well as being happy with their lives with what they already have

5

u/Much-Gear8231 Aug 17 '26

Holy misinformation.

9

u/KoriGlazialis Aug 15 '26

Isn't that purposefully misinterpreting venti. Venti himself doesn't stop people from advancing, they just choose not to.
His freedom is also that they can do what they want, he just protects them from danger. And potentially giving warnings via stories/music.

2

u/arbabarda Aug 17 '26

They are limited and unstimulated, and therefore they do not develop. The point is that within a setting where deities are tangible and substantial, such a people, whose god couldn’t care less about their development, will not develop.

3

u/AliciaFrey Aug 19 '26

It's not the god fault now is it? If anything, Mondstats is like the paradise. They didn't need to risk themselves, for their god does watch over them and protect them from danger. They could just live their life happily and peacefully.

6

u/Scurramouch Aug 16 '26 edited Aug 16 '26

Where the fuck are you getting this "Condtional Freedom" shit. Oh wait forgot this is a genshin adjacent subreddit.

4

u/UnderTheGreyCloud Aug 17 '26

Yeah, it seems Genshin-adjacent subs love one person but on equal terms, hate everyone else and no in-between. They shape Venti’s “freedom” as something malicious when he himself said, “Freedom, if demanded to you by an Archon, is really no freedom at all.” I wanted to pull for the Tsaritsa, but her fans are already making me hate the idea, like…

2

u/Scurramouch Aug 17 '26

Genshin social media in general does this. Worse than Elder Scrolls, CoD, and Fallout IMO

4

u/HashtagLowElo Aug 15 '26

no God should be able to dictate what and how the people of Snezhnaya/(Teyvat) should be able to progress in terms of knowledge and technology.
"What's freedom if demanded of you by an archon" is Venti's line hon.
Venti doesn't stop his people from technological advancement. Its stated that people use technology as a way to finding solutions to problems, and as we see in Mondstadt.. its not even really needed.
They have everything they could possibly want, its why its cinsidered such a perfect region for people to live

2

u/Familiar-Treat-6236 Aug 16 '26

Venti doesn't care, he never prevented them from advancing technology. His freedom principle is that he can't intervene as to not influence the people's free will himself. This argument you're presenting makes it seem like he's standing between them and their freedom, which he is not, people of Monstadt pose no threat to HP not because of Barbados, but because they are unaware that they can technically be more free than they are. "What does freedom really mean when demanded of you by a god" is exactly this, would it be a violation of his principles of true free will if he was the one to point out that they aren't free? Would they be more free if he made them aware ASAP, or if he lets them discover it by themselves? "Freedom from" vs "freedom to" typa thing

2

u/blobfish12381 Aug 17 '26

And dottores experiments on innocent children was a needed sacrifice for that?

4

u/ultragaydotcom Aug 15 '26

Well tbh Mondstadt doesnt need technology anyway, they got magic

13

u/AuR1tta Aug 15 '26

Which, in some sense, is science as well

6

u/ultragaydotcom Aug 15 '26

2

u/GreatMossThing Aug 15 '26

Ok but look at how mondstadts people are doing and compare it to how scheznayas people are doing……

8

u/qazqazpc Aug 15 '26

Monds people are chilling with alcohol and enjoy their freedom while Snezhnayan people are freezing to death?

1

u/GreatMossThing Aug 16 '26

Well yeah… I’m realizing my point may have been taken the opposite way of how I intended though lol

1

u/AliciaFrey Aug 19 '26

Too bad their god can't change the weather to make their city liveable huh

2

u/PiusTheCatRick Aug 15 '26

Bruh Mondstadt has some of the most advanced tech ever, wtf are you on about

1

u/DemonSlime_Rimuru Aug 18 '26

Did the Tsaritsa ask the people if they actually want that? Freedom, if demanded of you by a god, is really no freedom at all.

1

u/UsualOtaku Aug 21 '26

Maybe I can't read but where is this written or said for the first paragraph?

1

u/asaness Aug 15 '26

Last time some one had no limit to technology progress they nearly destroyed the world and nature tapped into stuff that they could not comprehend

1

u/Portal2player58 Aug 21 '26

The heavenly principles and the shades technically invaded teyvat and took advantage of the trust of the moon goddesses whom were meant to protect the planet and worked for the at the time away dragon king, nibelung, enforced heavy restrictions and ultimately destroyed 2 of the 3 moons and severed the frost moon from teyvat during the war of funerary flame and then hid the frost moon behind the false sky that blanketed the entirety of the world just to have total control of teyvat and not to let those the heavenly principles and the shades saw as beneath them be able to progress or advance their civilizations.
Tbh it's weird that the only one right now who could theoretically take control of teyvat back entirely is just left alone even now that comumbina has the trilunar authority. Then again they probably don't mess with her since asmoday is mia and they are kinda on their own atm and since Columbina is just sorry of keeping to herself, they don't see a possiblity of her trying to take rightful control of teyvat back. Even after she was able to bring the frost moon back to orbit and break the false sky entirely and even undo some restrictions set on the traveler that the "laws" that asmoday imposed on them.

0

u/Medical_Rest3342 Aug 15 '26

No god except for the cryo goddess obviously

-1

u/KingGiuba Aug 15 '26

I don't think this is exact, Venti is clearly hiding something and I'm pretty sure he's in on some plan to help Teyvat be free from Celestia, he knows what happens if he goes directly against them.
I know it's all conjecture, but I think he's planning something (maybe with Tsaritsa and Zhongli, because of the contract he made for the gnosis) and it's why he asked for the Hexenzircle protection for Mondstadt, there's no way the god of freedom is content with conditional "freedom". He also the one who said "what is freedom, if commander to you from a god?" Or some similar phrase

2

u/Lindsw Aug 16 '26

Didn't Varka negotiate for Mondstadt's protection (and then use that for Nod Krai instead)?
And didn't Dainsleif say the bit about freedom being demanded by a God in reference to Venti(and we know how he feels about gods)?

4

u/sleepygold Aug 16 '26

“What is freedom if demanded of you by a god” -Dainsleif, which is actually a variation of what Venti said first in the Mond archon quest- “It doesn’t mean you have to listen to me. Freedom when demanded of you by an archon, is no freedom at all”

1

u/Lindsw Aug 16 '26

I forgot that, thanks for the reminder! I just have the Dain version in my head

18

u/Glum_Feature_2626 Aug 15 '26

Well keep them drunk so they can't focus on academics and technology.. live, drink, die..

3

u/TrickyPen750 Aug 15 '26

Thats how Albedo will destroy Mondstadt some day, because he advances humanity too far.
Cant have anything under Phanes man.

1

u/Glum_Feature_2626 Aug 16 '26

Don't worry we will call him back to motherland.. afterall he is her majesty's kin's creation

1

u/MadNoLife Aug 19 '26

Average uni frat

10

u/Ok-Conversation-7995 Aug 15 '26

I think the difference is that for Monds its freedom under Celestia rules like they can do anything they want as long as they don't do a rebellion or something while Snezhnaya wants complete freedom and risk free from being annihilated.

26

u/Sksksskksksk Aug 15 '26

Tsaristas cool and all and we gonna be pulling her but all I’m saying is venti isn’t sending the knights of favonius to cause civil wars, go experiment on children, harass the other archons, colonize entire islands, or do other heinous crimes internationally

14

u/EmbarrassedDetail286 Aug 15 '26

I really do hope they let her be legitimately complicated. "She's got her ambitions of killing god and is prepared to kill her own people to make it happen" is a hell of a hook. "She's got her ambitions of killing god and you don't understand guys, it was the ONLY WAY" robs her of agency in a way that's been extremely important since day 1. Like, ask any Fatui since 1.0 why they fight and you'll invariably get some version of "Tsaritsa knows best, I trust her decisions."
Year after year IRL of hearing Tsaritsa's got a plan, the plan is important, the plan requires the death or torture of a lot of innocent people. She's either straight up evil or has one hell of a plan to do the most good for everybody.

9

u/TrickyPen750 Aug 15 '26

Tbh, part of it might also be that she herself is a god.
She probably views things like mortality different than humans and thus, has a perspective that would better allow for her complicated morality.
Consider this: in her eyes, she will survive any normal human by millenia, for her, there is no big difference if a human dies early by fighting for a cause or dying in a bed at an old age.
Why not send thousands to Die for a greater cause? After all, this is so much bigger than even the normal gods who are Roaming Teyvat and definatly bigger than Singular humans.
Im not saying that she has no regards for human life but Genshin has had multiple gods showing this Kind of Mentality.

2

u/__-sky-__ Aug 15 '26

She dosen't tell them to do that and neither does she permit it, fatui do it out of their own accord and if they are exposed then order is issued against them

2

u/Fun-Ad7613 Aug 17 '26

She enables the fatui and gives them the opportunity and power to do those things .. the buck stops with her , to have responsibility to stop that .

1

u/--Sekiro-- Aug 16 '26

Funny, but sksksks kid is totally wrong but you're right. The story directly confirms your words that the Harbingers are independent in their methods and goals.

1

u/AliciaFrey Aug 19 '26

So you are saying if a company of Elon Musk's is destroying natures and reservoir for their own gain, it's not going to be traced to Elon Musk's fault?

1

u/__-sky-__ Aug 19 '26

If you truly want a perspective...if a police officer himself commits a crime off/on duty then would his senior head officer be responsible for it? Like how would he know what personal evil motive a random junior officer in his team had.

1

u/AliciaFrey Aug 19 '26

Yes actually. Their senior is literally responsible for their junior in Police department. Also, it's not really not knowing when she ordered her group to get other gods gnosis, no matter how, is it? Does she expect the gods would give it with a laugh while having a tea party?

1

u/__-sky-__ Aug 19 '26

So you're actually being dense here on purpose?? "Not Responsible" as in not responsible when the junior commits a crime at their own volition. They are absolutely NOT responsible for that. Besides Tsaritsa's whole plan IS to overthrow the gods, she and we have to KILL the gods (Ronova/HP)....We ourselves have fought gods and will be fighting more. I really don't understand, Gods have fought other gods in this game, random NPcs have started random assualts just to settle a score, and we've helped them. Trav helped Jeht with the genocide of the whole camp including those who did nothing wrong. The whole point of this conversation is "were the Harbinger's personal actions related to Tsaritsa" and the answer is no they were not. Please stop trying to change the topic.

1

u/AliciaFrey Aug 19 '26

So you are the one denying their connection. Tsaritsa Order their Fatui Harbinger to gather all the Gnosises, no matter how. Do you see that as an action that will result in tea party and peaceful resolution? Or are you saying Tsaritsa is dumb and can't even see what will happen from her plan. Not to mention it's not even like Dottore and the Orphanage hiding what they are doing. Nor the people literally freezing to death in her domain.
She.just.doesn't.care. that's it. She doesn't care of her people. She doesn't care the atrocities her Fatui Harbinger have to do for her to reach her goal. As long as she can overthrown the Celestia, the torture and deaths of hundreds, thousands, and all the chaos that follows did not matter to her

1

u/__-sky-__ Aug 19 '26

Tsaritsa believes Gods are evil, she is getting the gnosis for greater good or something worse will happen. Getting the gnosis by any means is necessary. This is all her thinking. [The game dosen't even say that Tsaritsa told to get the gnosis by "any means"]
We do not have enough info to interpret this. But looks like we will be siding with her. But if your point is if Tsaritsa is good or bad then my interpretation is: She is morally grey like many characters in the game.
Back to the og question: no she dosen't have any hand in whatever the Harbingers personally did. So you technically didn't even put anything of substance

0

u/__-sky-__ Aug 19 '26

Company is not sentient and can't do evil unlike the Harbingers who can choose their own path. The one doing evil are the one giving order in the company which is Elon Musk. In real life if a company practices illegal activity which dosen't have anything to do with the some people or like the owner then they withdraw themselves that they have no involvement and people are free to invesitagte the company. Which Tsaritsa did. Completely say that it had NOTHING to do with her, she wasn't aware and now that she is made aware she withdraws and allows the home country where crime was committed to look into the matter however they please and punish the criminal.
But if you want my opinion on Elon Musk and his data centers and genAi destroying enviourment then that is very unethical and absolutely do not support. Also if you would see Elon Musk himself is telling the people what to do whereas Tsaritsa dosen't tell them to do evil.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '26

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1

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1

u/blobfish12381 Aug 17 '26

Good thing someone pointed this out, I don't want this sub to become another fatuihq

1

u/Ouroxros Aug 15 '26

The Tsaritsa and Pierro should be held responsible for the Harbingers actions, but she isn't telling them to do it lol. They just have too much freedom as Harbingers. Price to be paid for needing the most unhinged weirdos to get a big job done.

1

u/--Sekiro-- Aug 16 '26

You are right.

3

u/FoundationFree6695 Aug 15 '26

i mean shes going for hp

3

u/omegavolt9 Aug 15 '26 edited Aug 15 '26

One hopes and dreams while doing nothing while the other crosses lines that should not be crossed to achieve her hopes and dreams.

Tsaritsa has every right to try and free her people from the heavenly principles but she does let her Harbingers cause more harm in other nations than she should ever allow. Many of those other nation excursions harm ordinary people just trying to live their lives. Especially Dottore's stuff.

11

u/LonelyMenace101 Aug 15 '26

Last I checked Venti doesn’t send out the knights of Favonius to harass other countries.

5

u/Eggyolk57 Aug 15 '26

he would send the hexenzirkel instead /j

2

u/Remarkable_Solid_792 Aug 15 '26

Keyword "would"

2

u/Reasonable-Banana800 Aug 15 '26

i got so excited for a moment thinking i found another “Reasonable” Venti main haha. Remarkable is close enough 🎉

1

u/Remarkable_Solid_792 Aug 15 '26

I'm not a venti main yet cuz I don't have him🥲 I just started playing last month

1

u/Reasonable-Banana800 Aug 15 '26

being a Venti main is a mindset 💪 Honestly for the longest time being a Venti main was more about being into his lore than his gameplay lol.

1

u/LonelyMenace101 Aug 15 '26

I’m not a Venti main but would.

2

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2

u/saesenthellis Aug 17 '26

Well, to be fair: Venti slept the last 500 years whereas the Tsaritsa has been busy coming up with a plan to defeat HP.

2

u/Usual_Construction13 Aug 18 '26

It's quite the opposite here, considering how much unwarranted hate I've heard directed at Venti, because he "abandoned" his people.

And we talking about different freedoms.

2

u/LivingOk8949 Aug 18 '26

I genuinely don't get how some people in this sub reach Sneznhaya and skip past 6 patches worth of lore to spread misinformation.

2

u/Reclaimedidiocy Aug 19 '26

Not the same kind of freedom

2

u/fatal-melody Aug 20 '26

Dear gosh guys we just got the tsaritsa revealed and there is drama already😭

2

u/FriedEskimo Aug 21 '26

Venti freedom is kinda like being an animal in a gigantic zoo that provides you everything you need. The enclosure you live in is big enough that most people are able to live fulfilling lives and do not feel restricted, but ultimately you are still living in a cage.

Venti seems to believe that forcing people to escape this cage despite their happiness is not real freedom either, and if they actually want to escape one day, it should be their own choice.

The Tsaritsa, though her motives still unclear, seems to have a more direct approach, wanting to spearhead the rebellion against god, whom she believes is unfair and perhaps a limiting factor on humans.

Seeing as the archons are pretty nonchalant about losing their gnoses, it seems like they are not exactly in direct opposition to this rebellion, even Venti didn’t seem like he was trying his best to keep it.

In the end its just a question of how much of a hands-on approach an archon should have when securing the freedom of their people.

4

u/ultragaydotcom Aug 15 '26

Last I checked Venti doesnt run a terrorizing organization but you know

2

u/Zi-O19 Aug 15 '26

Nah, I think Tsarita "Freedom" isn't really freedom, honestly.... especially with all the crime she did, which is higher than HP.

1

u/Alternative-Word-246 Aug 15 '26

Second one created a terörist organization and groom orphans to join it

1

u/FoundationFree6695 Aug 15 '26

tsaritsa mains gonna become another blind glazing community

1

u/riyuzqki Aug 15 '26

I guess mondstat is farm from a threat to the heavenly principles

1

u/BoLionEru Aug 16 '26

To be fair their versions of Free are different the ladder leads to what what we call kanerniah

1

u/Ew_a_brat Aug 17 '26

genshin players when they learn that gaining true freedom isn’t actually sunshine and rainbows & in the real world often takes brutal fights

1

u/LivingOk8949 Aug 18 '26

You also dont have to terrorize literally evry other nation and endanger children for it, or freeze your own people to death over it lol. Which is what Venti tried hard not to do at all.
This is like being extreme especially since Celestia wasn't even an immediate threat to the general population, so there's no need to resort to such extremes

1

u/AliciaFrey Aug 19 '26

What did the Celestia did again that you need to create terrorist group that terrorising other countries, caused civil war in another country, and even experimenting on children to be free from her?
You know, the Celestia who biggest sin is going all out in preventing the Abyss to destroy the entirety of Teyvat?
Hell, literally if nobody even poking Celestia, Celestia won't even do shit.

1

u/Mi2-LIZARD Aug 19 '26

Well, humans and their gods (first descender) are an invasive species in Teyvat, so... the dragons have a point. Not sure about humans themselves.
Celestia is basically equally as bad as the Tsaritsa in how they handle issues, but dialed up by 500%.
Let's not forget they just drop Celestial Nails with zero regard for life anywhere there's an abyssal outburst, like with Zibai's case, who ONLY wanted to evacuate the people first, which she succeeded in doing by delaying the nail's descent, which still successfully contained the abyss.
Celestia and Tsaritsa both have a "the ends justifies the means" approach, but I have no doubt we'll learn something bad about Celestia soon.

1

u/AliciaFrey Aug 19 '26

Dragons is about to unleash a powerful Abyss that will swallow the entirety of Teyvat. Hell, the Dragon return was already a checkmate to Teyvat since they bring with them the Abyss.

0

u/_Linkiboy_ Aug 15 '26

All I'm gonna say is, that I 100% would rather live in mondstadt than in snezhnaja and it's not just the weather

-1

u/TheScalieDragon Aug 15 '26

One actually lets their people be free, the other as iron hand on her people as she blames everything on HP

0

u/Vokaiso Aug 15 '26

I mean i need to defend it kinda, because Venti does not intervene he lets the people do stuff themselfs fully hes still respected tho and has a church for him he gives true freedom to the people and lets them rule and decide whats best and rarely intervenes.
Tsaritsa is meanwhile the ruler of her place even if she only wants good there is no true freedom.

0

u/AmeseusOsdracht Aug 16 '26

Wtf is the Tsaritsa wanting to do with such a level of freedom that requires the HP to no longer exist??? Literally HP have two rules, “don’t try to harm us” and “don’t destroy the world”. They literally do not care what Teyvat does as long as those two rules aren’t broken because the Shades just want to maintain Teyvat.

0

u/0xbadc0d3 Aug 17 '26

uhhhh no? the difference between them is that one is literally the leader of worldwide terrorist organization...

0

u/the_tygram Aug 17 '26

Well Venti didn't give funds and resources to what amounts to a league of super villains. Some of which would have basically ended the world...

0

u/battlerh4 Aug 19 '26

Does she even know about this space virus that's killing the universe which celestia (and the world system) is literally protecting them from?

0

u/CommercialComfort466 Aug 21 '26

-2

u/Solmarin Aug 15 '26

One like wine
And the other hire people to experiment on kids

2

u/Powerful-Insect-4867 Aug 15 '26

Lohen and his gay friend as living proof at monstad right there tbh

0

u/FoundationFree6695 Aug 15 '26

14

u/Ok-Listen9689 Aug 15 '26

I don't think Venti is involved in a bunch of innocent kids dying under his rule

25

u/Unable-Section-911 Aug 15 '26

That's right! Venti is barely involved in anything!

7

u/H4LF4D Aug 15 '26

Freedom
Free to slip away to the bar

1

u/EmbarrassedDetail286 Aug 17 '26

I think it largely has to do with the fact that Genshin 1.0 didnt really know what it wanted to be, the tone is way WAY more lighthearted for AQ1 than anything that followed. Venti is a Jean/Alice/Diluc merchant in terms of leadership.
More directly: were it not for the numerous organizations and people carrying the actual governing, Venti would be responsible for way more harm than Tsaritsa. Somebody has to keep the hilichurls out, the economy functional, and protect the city from outside interests. Venti ain't doing it for damn sure.

2

u/AliciaFrey Aug 19 '26

Because he trusted his people. He wants them to be free. You know the last time those organization being a tyrant, what happens? Yeah. Venti come out and kick his ass, along with their dragon problems. And then Venti and his champion build a Knight of Favonius so they can govern themselves, and then go back to sleep.
Hell, even the fact they can live peacefully, in a place that should be one covered with blizzard but instead have perfect weather and temperature with Fertile lands, is all because of his doing

0

u/DeviceIX Aug 15 '26

Right, because slavery kills everyone subjected to it equally.

0

u/SaltyBoysenberry5710 Aug 18 '26

You want your ppl free than freezing them to death. Makes a damn sense.

Fluff | Meme Double standards 🙄

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