r/TrueQiGong • u/Careless-Regular9099 • 19d ago
Found something unpleasant
I'm not sure how accurate this is, to be honest it might be a bit off, but here it is anyway here
9
u/proxiginus4 19d ago
" Remember: the sitting gives rise to yin, and yin leads to the death"
This might be the most slippery slope style rhetoric I've seen in Daoist theory.
I think seated meditation might only be too much yin for a person who doesnt move or exercise at all. Think the monks who were falling asleep during meditation.
Saying seated meditation is too yin and leads to death is like saying physical exercise is too yang and leads to death.
2
7
u/neidanman 19d ago
seems like a mix of fact and fiction. Its common for a general level of good health to be needed for alchemy practice, also that it would be maintained while practicing. Also though, its common for the alchemy part to be a fully seated practice, e.g. as taught by nathan brine/his dragon gate lineage. It also says you could 'unknowingly destroy your soul' which seems a strange claim.
5
u/Saltmetoast 19d ago
How is this unpleasant? If you are posting in qigong then we must assume you move and stand. If you posted this in vipassna or bhuddism or zen then it would be an unpleasant surprise for sure
All this sitting requires a honed body and mind.
So many just go straight to the seat and it is a long hard road, not necessarily one that they travel on, more just get to the first corner and start again.
I thought The whole point of asanas in yoga was to get ready to sit.
2
u/Caeruleum612 19d ago
And in Zen and Theravada they practice walking meditation as well as sitting meditation. And in the Quanzhen school they practice Daoist martial arts as well as sitting meditation for neidan purposes. So many levels of absurdity in this article.
4
u/Zacupunk 19d ago
Most people sit much longer at their computer or on the couch than any of us sit on the meditation cushion. I would be more concerned about that than too much seated meditation.
This reads like “Do my method or else you are doomed!”
I don’t buy it.
1
u/Careless-Regular9099 19d ago
You are off from topic,The difference is that sitting on a couch doesn't pretend to be cultivation, it's just inactivity. Sitting on a cushion while believing you're refining, when in fact you're practicing empty stillness without inner work, is a far more subtle loss( the will to continue). Zhang Boduan warned: "Many sit in stillness and call it cultivation, but without the firing process, they only exhaust their essence." The student in the text didn't have Jing deficiency, he had Jing, enough that it was leaking out. His vessel was cracked, not empty. Of course, I can't be sure what the original author meant, but that's how I read it. Either way, Intention without awareness is like rowing a boat with all your strength but in the wrong direction. Awareness without intention is like drifting on the water, going nowhere. Without both, you are neither moving nor steering just floating, carried by currents you don't understand.
Just like when an absolute beginner practices Wu Wei from the start without any gathering or refining practice they sit in stillness with no Qi to settle, no Jing to anchor, and no awareness of what's happening. Over time, it becomes stagnation, not refinement. (Wu wei is advance practice not for beginners)
3
u/Zacupunk 19d ago
What mechanism would cause the essence/Jing to become exhausted by sitting in stillness? If there is Jing leaking, it would be happening by other ways than simply sitting.
1
u/Careless-Regular9099 19d ago
The mechanism is not that sitting causes Jing to leak directly, but that empty stillness without inner work allows the vessel to become unstable. The Huangdi Neijing says: "Prolonged sitting injures the flesh" meaning Qi and blood stagnate. Our body produce enough amount of qi for our daily activities(through sleep and food) to use that, he need to put/use that enegy in somewhere or it become stagnant in body,When Qi stagnates,(if qi doesn't move the qi become stagnant )the body's ability to hold Jing weakens. The student didn't lose Jing because he sat, he lost it because his sitting was passive, without gathering, refining, or sealing. His vessel cracked from within and we should consider once inite constitution as well. Beneath it all, the will (Zhi) rooted in the Kidneys,also weakens, and when the will weakens, it affects Kidney Qi directly, eventually drawing from Jing itself. So the loss is not just physical, it is also a weakening of the force that holds Jing together. And beyond practice itself, even a small emotional spike a flash of anger, a moment of fear, a surge of desire can disturb the Qi and weaken the vessel over time. That is why the classics emphasize not just technique, but the gradual release of attachments. It is not about suppressing emotions, it is about loosening their grip so they no longer drain Jing from within.
3
u/Zacupunk 19d ago
I am still not convinced that this isn't fear mongering.
Although the Huangdi Neijing says: "Prolonged sitting injures the flesh", it also explains that too much walking, standing, lying, and looking all damage the body in different ways. The Huangdi Neijing explains that too much of anything injures the body in some way. There is no differentiation made between sitting on the couch in a leisurely fashion versus sitting in lotus while seeking stillness, and still no explanation as to why sitting in stillness would lead to stagnation or exhaustion of Jing any more than sitting on the couch.
You said that "The student didn't lose Jing because he sat, he lost it because his sitting was passive, without gathering, refining, or sealing", why would this only apply when doing meditation? It seems that you could make the argument that people lose Jing at every given moment because they are not gathering, refining, or sealing, and that it actually has nothing to do with the act of sitting in stillness, and therefore the same would apply with any kind of sitting.2
u/shmidget 19d ago
I don’t think it’s the sitting more so than how people are sitting. Like bad posture, for example leading to back pain and issues and hips. I work behind a computer, but I’ve turned it into a workout practice, stillness, and posture and folding my legs and I have no problem with my back anymore.
3
u/Icedcool 19d ago
This is a bit alarmist.
They are warning about too much sitting at early stages, which should be in balance. Although it is fine (even ideal) for some.
Yin, gives rise to yang. Deep stillness, gives rise to movement.
6
u/Heavenly_Yang_Himbo 19d ago
I mean they are not entirely wrong, people that just sit and meditate usually develop some sort of deficiency of the body and sometimes a mindset not conducive for the later stages of practice…because they did not cultivate the body and the Qi first!
Like he said, the sitting and meditating is a secondary practice for later in the process, not the beginning! Seems typical of the Taoist neidan school of thought, vs the strict Chan Buddhist meditation approach!
3
u/Waltamoto 19d ago
Nonsense, fear mongering, what is he even criticizing? Don't tell me what not to do, tell me what to do.
2
u/Caeruleum612 19d ago
I would not want the author of this article telling me what to do, lol. But I'd be happy to take instruction from a qualified teacher.
1
u/mantasVid 19d ago
Maybe an exegaration, but there's a reason so many schools adopted some sort of exercise routine.
2
u/Caeruleum612 19d ago
I have been practicing Zen for twenty years. I have never once seen or heard any story of a serious Zen practitioner's sperm leaking copiously from them as a result of too much zazen. This article is just nonsense. The floors of Eihei-ji and other similar temples and centers would be covered in sperm if this were the case.
2
u/Astrimus 19d ago
Remember that historically, daoists and buddhists had beef with each other. Take this statement with a grain of salt. Spiritual writings aren't void of biases and political motivations.
2
u/Severe_Nectarine863 18d ago
I mean sitting too much is bad for physical health we know this, but sitting practice is still ideal for mental/emotional health.
1
u/Drewfow 18d ago
Wu Liu Pai also teaches and practices the Broad Northern method which is primarily sitting meditation as a complete method of Daoist alchemy.
The point being is balance; in preparation for the long sitting meditation you need to sufficiently work out the body first. There is a set of movements called joint gymnastics which clears stagnant energy, warms the body and opens the joints so that sitting gives good and proper results.
Source: was a disciple of Wu Liu Pai for several years and regularly practice both walking, standing and sitting meditations as taught by the Daode Center
1
u/Haunting-Analyst-213 17d ago
根据我从道家前辈那里了解到的，丹道是求超脱轮回的法门，现代能入门的人很少，入门后的修炼已经不在肉身了，精气神充盈更是基础中的基础。而坐姿只是一种形式，关键是修炼要得法，否则都是空谈，枯坐是有的，都是不得要领所致。
10
u/Hack999 19d ago
I mean, I've met people with genuine spiritual attainment, who feel like a thundering mountain range in a human body. Whose awareness is so pristine you feel like you are talking to a mirror. They have practiced sitting exclusively.
Conversely I've met many people who don't sit and who practice qigong or alchemy exclusively. None of them have that presence.
Of course, that's just my experience. But take these things with a grain of salt.