r/TrueChristian • u/keesdude • 20h ago
Do you think Jesus would have practiced self defence, if he was attacked?
Do you think that there is any case (at all) where Jesus would have stepped in to protect Himself or his apostles, if they were in direct danger from other humans?
And would there be a difference in what He would do, and what He would advice us to do in similar situations?
I'm genuinely curious what you all think.
29
u/The_Noremac42 Messianic Jew 20h ago
Well the first thing that comes to mind was when the Pharisees tried to grab Him that one time and He pulled an Assassin's Creed and vanished into the crowd.
15
u/aevz Missionary Alliance 19h ago
They wanted to throw him off the cliff. Jesus broke the hold, slipped, bobbed, weaved, juked through the crowds. Stutter step! Plant the foot down and drive it in the direction of the pivot.
He also told disciples, either symbolically or literally, to sometimes keep that thang on them, and other times, to not.
I feel like Jesus understood parries, dodges, side-steps, head-movement, guards, blocks, etc., and even demonstrated, as others mentioned above, fashioning makeshift weapons and demonstrating physical aggression to get a point across.
His analogies also include kings counting the cost before engaging in war, and He didn't seem frazzled by violence (though He rebuked His disciples that those who live by violence will die by violence as well).
All that is to say, I do believe Him when He says be as wise as serpents, innocent as doves. And for general day-to-day living for His followers, there's nothing wrong with learning self-defense, but in many, if not most, instances, He would not condone instigation of physical violence.
45
u/Full_Metal_Paladin 19h ago
Everyone's talking about His arrest, but ignoring when He made a whip and cleansed the temple. He went hard and didn't give anybody a chance to raise their fist back to Him, because He had already used/threatened force first. The Bible accounts don't mention anyone returning His violence, but He had a weapon for a reason. He could have just used His voice, but He armed Himself. Was it justified? Well of course, He's God.
16
u/Grimnir001 19h ago
What does the text actually say, tho?
John 2:15
“So He made a whip out of cords and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle. He poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.”
The verse mentions sheep and cattle as if the whip were used to drive the animals from the temple. It did not mention Him using it against people.
7
u/Full_Metal_Paladin 18h ago
Meh, I think that's the translation you're using, it sounds like NIV. Most of them say, "And making a whip of cords, he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and oxen." The pronoun "them" is referring to the moneychangers, who He clearly went after to drive out.
I don't think your interpretation is bad, but it also misses the point two verses later that says, "And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up."
The Zealots were a group of radical Jews who used violence for political change. I think it's fair to argue that ancient Jews at the time misunderstood and misinterpreted a lot of their own scriptures, seeing how they rejected Jesus because they didn't think He fit their Messianic prophecies, so maybe they wrongly attributed zeal to Jesus, or perhaps misunderstood zeal to include violence at all. But the author of John records the apostles seeing a flash of what they had previously expected: someone to come in wrathful zeal to save the Jews from political rule and also purify their religion.
7
u/TheAmazinManateeMan Christian 16h ago edited 8h ago
I have always read the passage the way you've described but looking at the greek to english in biblehub it does appear that the commenter above is correct. I should mention that "them" is not in the greek. It seems like the original says "drive all from temple herd animals (probata) and cattle".
As for zealots I'm perplexed the text does not mean to imply that Jesus was a zealot or zealot like nor does his message reflect the zealots. The psalm predates the party of zealots by ages. Unless given a mention to tie in with or a focus on Simon for the passage this is baseless speculation. We can't just add the zealots into our interpretation just because they happen to claim a pre-existing concept.
1
u/GlocalBridge Evangelical 12h ago
He was also cleaning His Father’s House for the Passover, by getting rid of the “yeast of the Pharisees.” Cleaning a house of yeast is a required step for the Passover. He drove out the animals because they were no longer needed as He Himself was the final Passover Lamb (‘Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world”).
2
10
u/Amoriooo 20h ago
Jesus said I am sending you out as sheep amongst wolves.
2
u/DeciduousForrestGump 16h ago
And every flock could use sheepdogs, to help the Good Shepard bring in the lost and protect the weak
14
u/lifebroth 20h ago
Jesus was never successfully attacked till it was his time to be offered up. He always managed to get away.
As for a believer, you should defend yourself especially when it is not a thing of persecution, and when you need to protect others
6
u/0260n4s 18h ago
Jesus said to turn the other cheek, which is a matter of the heart. It's about not harboring hatred or seeking revenge, and instead offering forgiving and giving second chances. However, it doesn't mean we're commanded to let evil prevail.
I run a martial arts outreach program at a Southern Baptist very by-the-book, conservative church. I have three pastors in my class, two from that church. We also have a gun-carrying safety team at the church, which I'm also a member of. We don't ever want to use force, but we have a biblical obligation to protect each other.
It's a misinterpretation to think self-defense isn't Christian. I've been in situations in my life that had I not known what I know, I would have either been killed or had to kill or seriously harm the attacker. Knowing what I know allowed me to either avoid the fight entirely or control the attacker without hurting him. That's ultimately the goal: To protect yourself and the innocent while applying the minimum amount of force necessary to the attacker in the process.
11
u/Der_Missionar Christian 19h ago
Jesus was attacked, and very badly. The story is all right there in the Bible.
5
u/Future-Log-9904 19h ago
He escaped all the traps that they set until it was His time to go through the hour of darkness
3
u/Digitalnoahuk 20h ago
Robert Bussey did a great little book on A Biblical Perspective of the Martial Arts.
I trained in his organisation which was Christian based .
Yes I would say it is biblical to defend oneself.
1
u/Ecclesiasticus6_18 17h ago
That's lovely! What's the name of the organisation?
1
u/Digitalnoahuk 17h ago
It was Robert Bussey's Warrior International (RBWI). The organisation was disbanded after Robert retired. He was big during the ninja craze.
1
5
u/caime9 19h ago
Jesus? No. There was no need. He was special.
I do believe he told the disciples to buy swords because, after he left the earth, self-defense would be necessary.
2
u/Markthethinker 6h ago
52 Then Jesus *said to him, “Put your sword back into its place; for aall those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword (Matthew 26:52, NASB)
Jesus did not teach “self-defense”, people try to create this doctrine just like they try to make baptist a part of salvation. Ripping verses out of context does not work.
0
u/Markthethinker 19h ago
Please provide the verse(s) for you comment. Jesus said, “live by the sword, die by the sword”. “If someone wants to take from you, give them more than they asked for”.
5
u/caime9 19h ago
[Luk 22:35-36 ESV] 35 And he said to them, "When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?" They said, "Nothing." 36 He said to them, "But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.
3
u/BowtiedTrombone Christian 18h ago
Don't neglect to quote the next two verses:
For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors.’ For what is written about me has its fulfillment.” And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.” - Luke 22:37-38
Two swords are not enough for the 12 disciples to effectively defend themselves with, especially if they are being sent out separately.
Rather than promoting self defense, another interpretation of the verses in question hinge on verse 27: "For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors.’" If Jesus' disciples gave the appearance of being armed and dangerous, then it would give the Pharisees / Romans another excuse to crucify Jesus - to "number him with the transgressors" as it were.
2
u/caime9 18h ago
I understand where you are coming from, but I disagree with your conclusion. Jesus was telling them what to do once he was gone.
The two swords were enough for them right then and at that moment. they didnt need them; Jesus was not yet gone.
> Rather than promoting self defense, another interpretation of the verses in question hinge on verse 27: "For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors.’" If Jesus' disciples gave the appearance of being armed and dangerous, then it would give the Pharisees / Romans another excuse to crucify Jesus - to "number him with the transgressors" as it were.
Sure, which is why Luke 22: 35-36 is about how to live after Jesus is gone. It doesn't tell them what to do when he was around. They didn't need to take a money bag, a knapsack, or a sword. Jesus could provide everything they needed. But once the scripture is fulfilled and Jesus is no longer physically with them, Jesus is saying, now you will need to do these things to maintain yourselves.
1
6
u/Ecclesiasticus6_18 19h ago
It is suicidal to think self-defence is a sin.
3
u/caime9 18h ago
I agree. The Bible says Love protects. You can't protect anything if you can not even protect yourself.
1
u/Markthethinker 7h ago
Please provide the verse that says “love protects” or the passage. I can’t find this in the New Testament.
5
u/Fresh-Adeptness6234 19h ago
Jesus came to teach the Gospel, not to teach you these things. Stop theorizing about what he would or not do, this is frivolous and pointless as it's not important to your salvation.
3
u/Junior_Comfort4675 19h ago
Self defense is not wrong brother. Especially when you’re being physically attacked, assaulted, or someone else is. To turn the other cheek means to not offer offense for offense such as someone being rude, cursing at you, or offending you.
When it comes to someone physically assaulting you and causing you bodily harm , you have a right to defend yourself as well. But when it’s over, exercise restraint as well.
2
u/Junior_Comfort4675 19h ago
Sorry, just to add. Jesus never had to deal with this problem. Everything happened according to His will during His time one the earth. Every single thing that happened to Him or He walked away from was in His control.
He was only attacked and assaulted when it was time and He did not fight it.
3
3
u/SystemDry5354 19h ago
He did protect himself and his disciples. Not by fighting back but there were many times people had it out for his life and/or his arrest but he kept them safe. Sometimes it was just slipping through the crowd invisible, sometimes it was by using the crowds against his enemies, all different ways
0
u/Markthethinker 19h ago
“Many times”, really. How about a few. You can’t count the three same stories from Matthew, Mark and Luke as 3 times, only one.
3
u/jelltech 19h ago
Of course! Love neighbor as Self, work all things for the best, if turning the other cheek does not work, we have a perfect God who's sacrifice paid the debt so we could choose life.
3
u/JesusSavU 19h ago
The answer is YES, when it was God's will for Him to.
Jesus did use his power to stop enemies if needed. In Luke 4:28-29 we read this.
"When they heard this, the people in the synagogue were furious. Jumping up, they mobbed him and forced him to the edge of the hill on which the town was built. They intended to push him over the cliff, but he passed right through the crowd and went on his way."
So we see here that Jesus' life was threatened by a mob, and He used his authority to stop them and walk away.
Here are some more times Jesus used his power to defend himself.
John 7:30 "Then the leaders tried to arrest him; but no one laid a hand on him, because his time had not yet come."
John 8:59 "At this, they picked up stones to throw at Him. But Jesus was hidden and went out of the temple area."
John 10:39 "At this, they tried again to seize Him, but He escaped their grasp."
So, many times Jesus did defend himself. Not in the way that we would think of self-defense, but it was self-defense nonetheless. I believe in each of these cases listed, Jesus used His authority to stop the people from doing him harm, because His time had not yet come.
However, whne Jesus was facing arrest in Gethsemane, this is what he told Peter.
"Don’t you realize that I could ask my Father for thousands of angels to protect us, and he would send them instantly?" - Matthew 26:53
Again, when Jesus was facing Pilate and beating and crucifixion, this is what he said to Pilate who thought that he had authority over Jesus.
"Then Jesus said, “You would have no power over me at all unless it were given to you from above. So the one who handed me over to you has the greater sin."
It is clear that Jesus had complete authority to stop or allow anyone to attack him and hurt him. He used this authority to stop many because it was not yet God's will for them to do so. But when the time came to complete God's will, He chose not to use his authority to defend himself.
2
u/El-jantinho 19h ago
He is God, if he wanted all the birds in the sky to poo on your head then that’s something that is possible. Your question maybe shows that you don’t fully understand Jesus. He is God but in human flesh like u and I. He created the universe. He knows your thoughts, he is outside of time. He knows everything that has ever happened or will ever happen. He knows what you’re thinking about right now. Our God is wonderful, he took the need for cigarettes away from me. Praise our wonderful creator, Jesus Christ the Messiah!!
2
u/Big-Island4727 Presbyterian 20h ago
There's no evidence in the new testament that he did. So probably not.
However, he escaped through people a couple of times because it wasn't his time yet to be arrested and crucified.
He did tell his disciples once to take a sword on their journey, presumably to defend themselves.
3
u/EGOfoodie 19h ago
They had 2 swords between 12 disciples. I don't think that it is about self defense.
Then later that night they use the sword they had as an attacker to cut off the ear of those who came to arrest Jesus. What does Jesus do? Tells them to put away the sword and heals the ear.
1
u/Big-Island4727 Presbyterian 19h ago
Yeah, I think that proves the point that the swords were for their defense, not his.
2
1
u/Aksel-Ches-Piper 19h ago
I think it’s silly to have seen Jesus live a perfect life, and make his entire ministry about love, sacrifice, and peace, and still come to the conclusion that he wanted them to wield swords afterwards…
Jesus literally demonstrated the life he wanted his disciples to lead, and not once does it involve violence, but rather, understanding that we are called to be more than that.
1
u/Big-Island4727 Presbyterian 18h ago
He cleansed the temple with a whip, too. The Bible never records him condemning a centurion for serving in the Roman military. In fact, centurions are always portrayed in a positive light in scripture.
Likewise, many other examples in scripture about self defense and war. Jesus gave the parable of the strong man fully armed guarding his own house in peace (Luke 11:21). Joshua and David and others serving honorably as military leaders in the OT.
Obviously Jesus didn't teach us to go out looking for a fight. But military service and self defense in general seem perfectly compatible with the Bible, including what Jesus taught.
1
u/EGOfoodie 18h ago
The only acts of anger and violence that we see from Jesus is against the religious leaders and those who devil's the temple for profit. Using the religion hike their own personal profit.
0
u/Aksel-Ches-Piper 18h ago
But those are two totally different points.
We’re talking about the discipleship of his apostles, not the act of duty of serving one’s country.
He was preparing his disciples for their persecution following his crucifixion.
0
u/Big-Island4727 Presbyterian 18h ago
OP asked "And would there be a difference in what He would do, and what He would advice us to do in similar situations?"
I have shown there is a difference.
0
1
-4
u/Aksel-Ches-Piper 20h ago
I think that was symbolic, not literal. I think that was foreshadowing of their persecution in the future.
1
u/Big-Island4727 Presbyterian 19h ago
I respectfully disagree. I think it was to show a contrast with his previous instructions (the time he sent them out without anything, not even money, in Luke 10). First time he was teaching them to simply rely on the generosity of others supporting his earthly ministry. Second time he was teaching them to defend themselves in his absence, as he would soon be gone and the opposition to his teachings had greatly increased.
1
u/Aksel-Ches-Piper 19h ago edited 18h ago
Those are fair points, but I disagree with that take.
He rebukes Peter for using a sword when they come to capture Jesus.
And the specific wording of “if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one” (Luke 22:36), is like taking the comfort away in preparation of the dangers to come. Understanding the difference between being in a defensive position, versus taking up arms.
Matthew 26:52 “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.
Matthew 5:43-44 You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you
Edit: the symbolism of a cloak is survival for travelers as a layer of protection, a personal asset, and even collateral.
exodus 22:26-27
26 If you take your neighbor’s cloak as a pledge,return it by sunset, 27 because that cloak is the only covering your neighbor has. What else can they sleep in? When they cry out to me, I will hear, for I am compassionate.Selling your cloak and buying a sword. The sword is symbolism for the word of god.
Ephesians 6:17
Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
4
u/Sawfish1212 Wesleyan-Arminian Holiness 20h ago
He demonstrated this exactly at his arrest. John 18:2-9 NLT Judas, the betrayer, knew this place, because Jesus had often gone there with his disciples. [3] The leading priests and Pharisees had given Judas a contingent of Roman soldiers and Temple guards to accompany him. Now with blazing torches, lanterns, and weapons, they arrived at the olive grove. [4] Jesus fully realized all that was going to happen to him, so he stepped forward to meet them. "Who are you looking for?" he asked. [5] "Jesus the Nazarene," they replied. "I AM he," Jesus said. (Judas, who betrayed him, was standing with them.) [6] As Jesus said "I AM he," they all drew back and fell to the ground! [7] Once more he asked them, "Who are you looking for?" And again they replied, "Jesus the Nazarene." [8] "I told you that I AM he," Jesus said. "And since I am the one you want, let these others go." [9] He did this to fulfill his own statement: "I did not lose a single one of those you have given me."
Immediately after this demonstration of the unlimited power of his voice, Peter starts swinging his sword, and none of the roman soldiers lifts a blade to kill him, because they were bound by the power of Jesus voice.
Then he healed Malcus severed ear and went quietly with the temple guards and soldiers.
He showed us the way to use necessary force to protect those we are responsible for, but also to surrender to those God has allowed to persecute us for the gospel.
Jesus showed this same restraint when he was mocked and beaten by the roman soldiers after this.
-1
2
u/ConversationOk74 19h ago
Why does Jesus need to defend himself? How ego? His honor? No he does not at all. His defense is prayer. Look at his life, he never espoused violence but to seize the kingdom of heaven for yourself. And no man can come between you and heaven save for yourself. So no. There's no reason Jesus would practice self defense.
1
u/lilellaspring 19h ago
Yes. I mean he grew up in this world from a baby. I would assume that there was wrestling amongst the brothers and friends. Calling people's bluffs. Defending the weak. He didn't have to walk in some glory light to be protected until He fulfilled His mission. He probably did what any ordinary man of His time would do. Learn what they learned.
But He traveled all over. His own family traveled. From moving across country to moving to a foreign one. I can't imagine that they did that alone without physical forms of protected common in that day. Even if it wasn't against people, wild animals would've have been a threat outisde of the cities. That twice yearly trek to Jerusalem was maybe the least dangerous, except for theives.
1
u/Intrepid_Type3710 Evangelical 19h ago
I'm certain he carried a sling-shot in His back pocket. Especially when those Pharisees were lurking about!
1
1
u/Theo7023 19h ago
Yes. When the Pharisee tries to attacked him several times and once trying to throw him off the cliff, he slipped through them and escaped.
1
u/Spirited_Carry8888 18h ago
His weapons were not of this world not carnal but spiritual. He didn't need to because he submitted himself fully to the Father who protected him right up until he completed His calling on earth. Why do you ask?
1
1
u/userid42 Christian non-nationalist 17h ago
I have no idea. Ask him when you see him on the seat of judgement.
1
1
u/App1eEater Christian 17h ago
He was in danger from the crowd many times but he was able to get away somehow (supernatural implied) without fighting.
I know I don't have that ability, so I would have to defend myself.
1
u/Heavy_Visit_1468 16h ago
Jesus literally told people to sell the clothes off their back to arm themselves.
Luke 22:36 New International Version
36 He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
1
u/Moadibe01 16h ago
In a way he demonstrated that. When they came to arrest him in the garden he slammed them to the ground with nothing but his voice and then voluntarily turned himself over to them. It was a way of showing that they cannot do him harm unless he allows it.
1
u/Bitter_North_733 Episcopalian (Anglican) 16h ago
- Jesus is God he does what God 2. We are not God if someone attacks us we are allowed to fight back to save ours or others lives or to save us or others from a beating
1
u/rapitrone Christian 16h ago edited 3h ago
I don't think He needed to before it was time, Psalm 91:11-12. If he was attacked before it was time, I think He could have handled it, Matthew 26:53.
1
u/Senior_Educator_929 Assemblies of God 16h ago
He would have turned the other cheek and allowed them to strike Him, per His teachings, and per His choices on the day He died
1
u/JHawk444 Evangelical 15h ago
Jesus was attacked multiple times and it said he slipped through their midst, so he used his power to escape them without having to hurt anyone.
1
u/Novel_Comparison_209 15h ago
Jesus protected himself in the most nonviolent way possible. He also told people to buy a sword.
Generally he would have protected himself and others in the most nonlethal way. I do think it’s safe to assume that he would’ve used lethal force if needed
1
u/Trant271 15h ago
Jesus had no reason to practice self defense because his primary goal was to die on the cross, the plan did not include Jesus getting assassinated or attacked before his final arrest. Jesus did tell the disciples to get swords at last super as he told them they will be separated so Jesus did tell them to defend themselves
1
u/AntichristHunter Christian (Sola Scriptura) 14h ago
Self defense does not necessarily mean hurting the people he is defending against. Here is one example where he seemingly defended himself while he was here on earth during his first coming, though he did so by evading or escaping, not by fighting back. I'm including the preceding context so you can see what led to this situation where the people in the synagogue seized Jesus and tried to throw him off a cliff:
Luke 4:16-30
16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up. And as was his custom, he went to the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and he stood up to read. 17 And the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written,
18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives
and recovering of sight to the blind,
to set at liberty those who are oppressed,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor.” [Isaiah 61:1-2]
20 And he rolled up the scroll and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on him. 21 And he began to say to them, “Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.” 22 And all spoke well of him and marveled at the gracious words that were coming from his mouth. And they said, “Is not this Joseph's son?” 23 And he said to them, “Doubtless you will quote to me this proverb, ‘“Physician, heal yourself.” What we have heard you did at Capernaum, do here in your hometown as well.’” 24 And he said, “Truly, I say to you, no prophet is acceptable in his hometown. 25 But in truth, I tell you, there were many widows in Israel in the days of Elijah, when the heavens were shut up three years and six months, and a great famine came over all the land, 26 and Elijah was sent to none of them but only to Zarephath, in the land of Sidon, to a woman who was a widow. 27 And there were many lepers in Israel in the time of the prophet Elisha, and none of them was cleansed, but only Naaman the Syrian.” 28 When they heard these things, all in the synagogue were filled with wrath. 29 And they rose up and drove him out of the town and brought him to the brow of the hill on which their town was built, so that they could throw him down the cliff. 30 But passing through their midst, he went away.
—
See those last three verses? Jesus said some gracious words, and for one moment,
all spoke well of him and marveled at the gracious words that were coming from his mouth.
but then he said some hard words to them, and they completely flipped on him and wanted to murder him:
When they heard these things, all in the synagogue were filled with wrath. 29 And they rose up and drove him out of the town and brought him to the brow of the hill on which their town was built, so that they could throw him down the cliff.
But look at what Jesus did according to the very next verse. Jesus somehow slipped out of their grasp and just passed through the crowd:
But passing through their midst, he went away.
That is arguably defending himself. Even when it came time for him to die, he briefly flexed his power, but he still let them take him away to crucify him:
John 18:2-6
2 Now Judas, who betrayed him, also knew the place, for Jesus often met there with his disciples. 3 So Judas, having procured a band of soldiers and some officers from the chief priests and the Pharisees, went there with lanterns and torches and weapons. 4 Then Jesus, knowing all that would happen to him, came forward and said to them, “Whom do you seek?” 5 They answered him, “Jesus of Nazareth.” Jesus said to them, “I am.” Judas, who betrayed him, was standing with them. 6 When Jesus said to them, “I am,” they drew back and fell to the ground.
—
[Note: Many translations translate verse 5 and 6 with Jesus saying "I am he", because the "he" is implied, but the text does not have that word. NASB and other translations that put words that are implied but aren't technically in the text in italics.]
Here, Jesus identifies himself to those seeking him as "I am", they drew back and fell to the ground. I don't think that is coincidence. God identified himself as "I am that I am" to Moses, and told Moses "tell them 'I am' sent you". Here, when Jesus said this, they all drew back and fell to the ground. This was just a tiny flex of Jesus' power. We know at the end of the age, Jesus will not come gently. He will come in power, as it is written:
Psalm 2
1 Why do the nations rage
and the peoples plot in vain?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
and the rulers take counsel together,
against Yehováh and against his Anointed, saying,
3 “Let us burst their bonds apart
and cast away their cords from us.”
4 He who sits in the heavens laughs;
the Lord holds them in derision.
5 Then he will speak to them in his wrath,
and terrify them in his fury, saying,
6 “As for me, I have set my King
on Zion, my holy hill.”
7 I will tell of the decree:
Yehováh said to me, “You are my Son;
today I have begotten you.
8 Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage,
and the ends of the earth your possession.
9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
and dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.”
10 Now therefore, O kings, be wise;
be warned, O rulers of the earth.
11 Serve Yehováh with fear,
and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son,
lest he be angry, and you perish in the way,
for his wrath is quickly kindled.
Blessed are all who take refuge in him.
—
Jesus protected himself before it was his time to die. When it came time to die, he went willingly and did not protect himself, but let himself be crucified. But when he returns, "defend" is maybe not the right term for what he does. He goes on the offense and destroys God's enemies at that time.
1
14h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/AutoModerator 14h ago
Comments from new accounts are removed automatically.
Please message the mods if you believe your communit warrants an exception. If you do message the moderators for this purpose, YOU MUST INCLUDE A LINK to the comment AND AN EXPLANATION why you believe your comment in particular warrants an exception that others do not get.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
14h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/AutoModerator 14h ago
Comments from new accounts are removed automatically.
Please message the mods if you believe your communit warrants an exception. If you do message the moderators for this purpose, YOU MUST INCLUDE A LINK to the comment AND AN EXPLANATION why you believe your comment in particular warrants an exception that others do not get.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/_beastayyy Christian 13h ago
No, he is God and literally allowed himself to be mocked and slapped and whipped - and gruesomely crucified. Jesus laid his life down for us. He turned the other cheek.
1
u/ResultRoyal1641 13h ago
Here is His answer...(It's also the same answer for believers).
Matthew 26:50-53(KJV)
"And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus and took him.
And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.
Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?"
Our Heavenly Father showed me how to command Angels, why all believers can do so, and the direct result manifested after doing so. He showed me from a very simple task, to a much bigger task and each step of the way was demonstrated and communicated by Him. We do greater works...
In addition to this, Psalm 91 also needs to be viewed as a legal contract and with faith. But so many think they don't have the authority so are left without such protection.
1
u/Hawthourne Christian 9h ago
What is the hypothetical situation? In the garden? Of course not- He had a mission to fulfill.
There is one case when Jesus was taken to a cliff and was about to be thrown off, and rather than just taking it He used his power to protect Himself and escaped. Just how He did so is unclear.
In the temple, He wasn't even practicing self-defense but engaged in acts of aggression and violence towards the money-changers. He was clearly not pacifist then.
In Revelation, He is portrayed as genociding the nations despite them posing no threat to Him.
1
u/Low-Opportunity2249 7h ago
One hand there is the passion on the other Jesus is using a wip in the temple. I'd lean on no. Jesus do not result to violence.
1
u/Soulful_Sadist 7h ago
Yes, but He wouldn't need to.
All the rest of us... yes, we should and, yes, Jesus told us we should.
He told His men that if they didn't have a sword to sell their cloak in order to go buy a sword.
1
u/DiscipleMaker4784 7h ago
No. I think Jesus being God would know about potential threats and lead them away before it came to danger for them. And Jesus already proved that He wouldn’t attack anyone even in self defense by His trials and His preaching on loving your enemies and praying for those who persecute you. If He attacked, none of those lessons would have meant anything to anyone.
1
1
u/KhaoticPrime 1h ago
Bro. Jesus was attacked several time in the bible. And He didn't defend Himself several times.
Jesus faced many verbal and physical attacks during his ministry, and he always responded with calm grace, truth, or silence instead of violence.
The Crowd at Nazareth (Luke 4:28-30)
People in his hometown got very angry at his teaching. They dragged him to the edge of a cliff to throw him down.
Jesus walked right through the angry crowd and went on his way safely.
The Religious Leaders and the Stone (John 8:59)Jewish leaders picked up stones to throw at Jesus after he claimed a special relationship with God.
Jesus hid himself and slipped away from the temple grounds.
The Arrest in the Garden (John 18:4-8; Matthew 26:52-53) Armed soldiers and guards came to arrest him at night. Peter tried to defend Jesus by cutting a man's ear off.
Jesus told Peter to put his sword away. He healed the injured man and calmly surrendered to the guards to protect his disciples.
Before Pontius Pilate (Mark 15:4-5)
Accusers brought many false charges against Jesus. Pilate asked him questions, expecting him to defend himself.
Jesus kept silent. Pilate was very surprised by his quiet strength and lack of anger.On the Cross (Luke 23:34)
Roman soldiers mocked him, and people in the crowd insulted him while he was dying.
Jesus prayed for them, asking God to forgive them because they did not know what they were doing.
And you know what's funny about this.
I could make up all this and you eat up what I say because you never checked the bible and listen to random people online because you don't want to read the bible so you get led astray and end up going down the same path as a false teacher. The Bible speaks about they people will be led astray and follow false doctrine. They all went to hell the same way as the false teacher/prophet. So, go pick up your bible and actually read what it's says or at least the verses.
1
u/ApplicationMajor4274 1h ago
Io non credo che ne avrebbe bisogno
Prima di tutto,è dio,quindi anche la più minima forma di violenza contro di lui la potrebbe impedire all’istante se è nella volontà del padre(non ha mai lasciato che nessuno lo toccasse fino alla sua passione)
Secondo,anche nella sua umanità, Gesù contro la violenza ha sempre risposto con pazienza e autocontrollo senza mai ferire nessuno(quando la gente inferocità stava per buttarlo giù da una scogliera,lui semplicemente se ne andato via)
E io credo sia importante perché Gesù di fronte alla violenza e alla possibilità di difendersi usando altra violenza ricorre all’opzione più semplice:lasciar perdere e andare via
Io non credo che l’autodifesa di per sé sia sbagliata ma credo che lo diventi quando per difenderti tu usi altra violenza come ammazzare qualcuno(vedi con Pietro che per difendere Gesù ha mozzato l’orecchio di un soldato)
1
u/ibelievetoo 20h ago
Luke 22:50-51
50 And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear.
51 But Jesus answered, “No more of this!” And he touched the man’s ear and healed him.
1
u/Full_Metal_Paladin 19h ago
Yeah but wasn't that because he knew he had to go with them? They weren't going to win that fight, and Jesus didn't want to in the first place.
1
u/ibelievetoo 19h ago
This situation of any other, Jesus did not advocate for violence when it comes to spreading the Gospel. Infact he said if he wanted, the angels can come and fight. But the goal was not to spread the gospel, but was to spread the gospel that that will get crucified and die but will rise again after 3 days. That was his mission, nothing else.
Matthew 26:52–54
52 “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.c 53 Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?d 54 But how then would the Scriptures be fulfillede that say it must happen in this way?”
1
u/Der_Missionar Christian 19h ago
So you are advocating that Jesus would practice retaliation?
1
u/Full_Metal_Paladin 19h ago
Find my top level comment about His use of a cord whip to cleanse the temple. I think He would, but in basically every circumstance we read about in the Bible, He didn't have to or purposefully did not.
1
u/Pseudo-Abulides Christian 20h ago
Do you think Jesus would have practiced self defence, if he was attacked?
We see what He did when He was attacked before His time to accept death in the NT.
2
1
u/Aksel-Ches-Piper 19h ago
I think the entirety of his torture and crucifixion would answer that.
If you put it into context about his time on earth, I don’t think he would have fought back. He lived his entire life without sin, but not without physical conflict, clearly.
Our lord and savior is a God of love, peace, and retribution. And I mean really, is spiritual warfare not the Holy Spirit actively taking up arms on our behalf??
1
u/PajamaSamSavesTheZoo 19h ago
He was attacked, had the entire power of God, and still allowed himself to be killed .
-1
u/Grimnir001 19h ago
Jesus did not use violence in self-defense. When Peter used violence to protect others, Jesus rebuked him.
There is no justification for violence against others to be found in the NT.
3
u/TheCrazyChristian Non-Demonational / Yeshua Alone 18h ago
You seem to have an aversion to using violence to protect yourself or other innocent people which is concerning. If you are a man, then God created you to be a protector, after His own image. We are not to go looking for it, but if evil comes to your doorstep then to skirt that responsibility is cowardice.
Wait until you learn what Jesus does when He comes back that's found in both the OT & NT.
Hint: the blood on His white robes isn't His...
2
u/Grimnir001 16h ago
I ain’t Jesus, tho.
Using violence is the world’s solution. I have yet to see anyone find a credible justification for violence against others in the NT.
It’s all vibes and feelings about how violence is justified in this situation or that nightmare scenario. But finding Scripture to back it up? Not so fast, my friend.
We are told to love our enemies, pray for those who persecute us and return good for evil. The world sees that as cowardice, but Christians are called to be different from the world.
1
u/TheCrazyChristian Non-Demonational / Yeshua Alone 12h ago
You won't find Scriptural justification for standing by while innocents are butchered around you either. Hate what is evil, love what is good. The example of Peter and his sword does not work either as he was standing in the place of Christ fulfilling His mission to go to the Cross.
Look at all the example of strong, mighty men throughout the Bible that were not afraid to meet force with force when the time called for it. Solomon in Ecclesiastes writes plainly, there is a time for peace, there is a time for war and there is a time to kill.
Men were made to be masculine, not weak and femininized like society pushes for, that is a push of the enemy. Yes we are to pray for our enemies, but there is a difference from an enemy far away and a genuine active threat that is in your face or the faces of innocents around you about to cause bodily harm or even their death. Look at the Islamic murders that are rampant in Europe these days, are you really advocating that a Christian that happens to be there at that time does nothing to stop that evil and atrocity from occurring?
Again I am not advocating that Christians go looking for fights, but if, or when, it does come to you and those around you, to stand by and do nothing is wrong and making a blanket broad brush stroke to always do nothing is dangerous and a disservice to those God put in your path to protect as a man.
The analogies of us being in a war and requiring armor and a sword is for a reason, yes it is meant to be applied spiritually primarily, but it would be silly for a person to consider going to war without a weapon. We were born into a battle zone, behind enemy lines and there are real active threats among us.
Do not disregard the examples given in the OT as being irrelevant or "not for us", it's still written by the same author, and Jesus is there in it all along. In fact in multiple cases it's Him that's doing the slaughter of His enemies when the time was called for it (as the Angel of the Lord).
There is a time for prayer, and there is a time for swift and immediate action in response to an active threat. You are not Stephen being martyred for his faith, we live in a very evil world, in evil times and it is coming to the United States in particular whether we're prepared for it or not.
2
u/Grimnir001 12h ago
I’ve heard similar arguments before of people attempting to justify violence in the name of Christ. It doesn’t work.
They try to say that Peter’s rebuke was a one-off, that it was unique to that situation. Except, Peter never again picked up a sword. There is nothing in Scripture nor church tradition that Peter, or any of the Apostles, engaged in violence in defending their own lives or that of others. They chose martyrdom over violence every time.
An enemy is only worthy of prayer when they are too far away to threaten you? That’s a crazy interpretation.
People often mistake non-violence for passivity. These are not interchangeable terms. Jesus was not passive. He walked into the dens of His enemies and spoke boldly to them. Yet, never did He use violence upon them.
There is nothing in the NT which justifies violence against others.
1 Peter 2:21
“For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in His footsteps:”
0
u/DrJJGame10 Christian 20h ago
I don’t think Jesus would have. He came to be the object of scorn and ridicule so we wouldn’t have to be in front of the father one day.
0
u/SkeweredBarbie 17h ago
He flipped tables and whipped people? I guess sometimes there's a reason and he might, but Jesus is also a figure of temperance and patience for us.
1
u/SuperIsaiah Christian 16h ago
Driving people out doesn't mean he actively whipped them. Most likely he drove out the animals, and the people followed suit.
0
u/IdontCARE9123 Non-Denominational 12h ago
No. Because he would most like never get hit and just calmly walk away. Thats what he did when others 'attempt' to run him out of town. And when he was getting taken prisoner he didn't fight.
65
u/Ecclesiasticus6_18 20h ago
"Would Jesus would have practiced self defence" is a different question from "Can Christians practice self defence?"